Conservative or Liberal, what does these Groups  know about the facts/Reality of the American dynamics???   They are all pushing their Agendas hoping to persuade a larger segment than their competitor .

The reality is not much has changed with regards to the distribution of wealth, Opportunities and attitudes.

I take the opposite view. The neglect of both parties has produced unstable social undercurrents and exacerbated racial animism. Trump may be a place holder but nothing he said was not being heard in the congress from well known and vocal personages ie Congressman King with his claims that Mexicans have calves like cantaloupes from hiking across the border with drugs. The conservative right also created the framework in which wall street swiped 3 trillion dollars from poor people over the past decade. No one got jailed for it and the main culprit banks are bigger than ever. The income inequality divide is completely on the backs of Republicans. Trump would magnify the means where these crooks can consolidate wealth. The flyover poor are being duped.

Hilary will win and the electoral spread will be massive. She will break 300 easily. She will be a great president. She has a better position since she will also get back the senate. The Congress will be greatly weakened with a pick up about 20 or so congressmen and that is massive given the heavily gerrymandered districts that give us that wide swath of red in the middle on electoral maps. I is also the failure of this congress that created that underbelly of discontent in these red areas where steel is dead, coal is dead and manufacturing took flight.

The GOP cannot win in the near future. They so not have the demographic strength if they refuse to be inclusive and speak of when america was great as if the backwardness of racism and anti civil rights were bastions of Americana in a most magnificent bloom. They have to be competitive among blacks and Hispanics or they are in the cold for another two to four election cycles.

Mrs C has a good plan. It is not trickle down which has failed. It is stepped tax increase so the rich pay their fair share, regulations to prohibit hedge funds selling derivatives that are crap, rebuilding infrastructure, two year college guarantees, student loans reprieve via national service and lessening the usurious interest rates. I also trust her to be stronger than Obama in foreign policy and know she will be a hands on president since that is what she was designed for by the gods.

Nehru posted:

Conservative or Liberal, what does these Groups  know about the facts/Reality of the American dynamics???   They are all pushing their Agendas hoping to persuade a larger segment than their competitor .

The reality is not much has changed with regards to the distribution of wealth, Opportunities and attituds.

Conservatives and liberals have a vast imponderable intellectual distance between them. The former is for small government meaning one that favors big business, unregulated markets ( mainly Hayekian), christian god centered, nativism etc. Liberals are mainly Keynesian, pluralistic ie non god centered, and reaching out to the world as community etc. They also believe in the individual rights over their choices about their preference and tastes and their  bodies. 

The distribution of wealth since the 40's have move dramatically to wealth concentrations in the hands of a few and this accelerated in the 90's to now to a mere 1% owning some 90 percent of the wealth. One would think the got that way by selling real goods through production to service needs but that is also a farce. They got that way by stock market scams and capitalizing on collapsing the economy.

You have to cut out the noise and see that prospects have changed irreversibly for over half of the american population - that's a lot of white Christians. If you do not address inequality (both wealth and income) and opportunities, then you will have this political alignment where even the Democratic party can suffer the trauma of the current GOP.

I suggest that you all put away the bubbly until November 8th at around 9PM.  While there is a 80-90% probability of a Hillary victory that still leaves slight room for the Monster to win.

There is a quiet fear that with Obama not running many blacks don't plan to vote.  If their turn out mirrors that of 2010 and 2014 that puts states like FL, NC, VA, and PA in jeopardy.   Its accepted that Trump is going to win OH.

Ditto with some of the Bernie millennials in light of the WikiLeaks revelations.  They don't understand that this election is vital because the Supreme Court is going to see maybe 2 justices leaving, in addition to Scalia.  Sadly the Republicans know this, so many who hate Trump will vote for him, citing this as their reason.

In addition I expect the most vicious voter intimidation and suppression that we have ever seen in FL, NC, VA, OH, and maybe PA.  With the Voting Rights legislation weakened there is considerably less monitoring of irregularities and there are already phone calls warning those who owe parking tickets and child support, or have outstanding warrants, that they face arrest if they vote. Of course you know that the calls are focused in black and Latino inner city communities, and not the redneck towns.

The Democratic party has a huge problem and that is its over reliance on minority votes.  

There is a generational change within the black population. That Civil Rights generation of old ladies who automatically voted Democrat and who thought that it was a sin if they didn't, are ageing with many dying off.  The black millennials think that the Clintons were responsible for over policing and increasing wonder why they should bother to vote.

If the GOP learns a lesson from its 90% probability of defeat (not sure that Hillary will break the 300 electoral college) it is likely that a more moderate group will emerge with an "I told you so attitude".  This group will target Asians, Hispanics, and middle class (or more religious) blacks to be more open to the GOP.

I saw a map which indicated that if only white WOMEN voted what the electoral college would be. The Dems would only win the West Coast, NY/NJ and New England, as well as Wisconsin, Minnesota and Illinois.

If the GOP is able to get the 44% of the Hispanic vote (in 2020 and beyond) that it received as recently as 2004 the Dems are in trouble.  They may squeeze 20% this time, as more Latinos hate illegals than people think.

One thing that the Trump fiasco did was to expose the GOP in all of its nastiness.  The flight of the white college educated and minorities (the growth points of the electorate) may well teach the GOP that it has to change if it is to survive.

The loathing that most Democrats have for Hillary is a mere symptom of what they think of the Democrat liberal elites.  She just becomes a repository for that rage.

So Kari I don't think that there will be this great transformation along the lines that you believe.

Even Glenn Beck now concedes that the GOP went too far in its angry right wing rant. Just as endless defeats in the 80s showed the Dems that they had to move to the center if they were going to win, the GOP might learn the same lesson.

Kari posted:

The conservative movement is being torn asunder by Trump in a way that  Bernie Sanders exposed the Democrats in the Primaries. The issue is that there is a realignment in American politics under way that will be crystallized in a couple of election cycles. That realignment is because governance by both parties failed the average American.

 

President Obama is one who recognized this change, its reasons and know how to attempt to mitigate its effects. This realignment I speak about is driven by how technology is changing income and jobs. I hypothesize it's not about Trade Agreements; it is not about Immigration to America by non-whites and people of non-Christian persuasion. Technological advancement (the gig economy or sharing economy or autonomous virtual intelligence - whatever you want to call it) will mean the day will come when there will be no work, except for a tiny few, and government's job will be to provide for a citizenry that is not needed for work.

 

Trump gave voice to the perceived ills - the elites and special interests being among them, and the baggage that Hillary bears. With the white demographics as is, Trump will get his 38 to 40%. With the electoral college voting, all he needs is the white millennials and some white educated - about a 4% swing and he can win this election (that's a +8 and then there's the Independent candidates). He will of course seek to change the Supreme Court and favor small government (a myth), less taxes and survival of the fittest with more upheavals, especially as American whites have not come to grips yet and atoned for their treatment of native Indian displacement and Black slavery.

 

It's not time to sing Hillary's praises but to take stock and like Obama see how to stem the tide (no pun intended as he is pushing STEM in education to better equip the populace). Obama is tackling wealth inequality through government programs and income inequality and opportunities through education and infrastructure. Hillary gives the best hope for a continuance, but do not discount the unease of a good portion of American citizens who hear their voices in Donald J Trump.

President Obama has accelerated the divide within America.  He is an utter failure bringing little but stress and uncertainty and has stagnated the economy in red-tape and his ill conceived Obamacare.  The country is over-taxed and under-served!  Overseas, we are in disarray and have no direction prompting even the Philippines to want to break with us.

America needs a politically fearless leader to make the changes that are needed to put their economy and society back on a stable track.Someone like FDR. Trump has some good ideas but looking at his past it shows he most often does not follow what he says.  But I have to give the man credit. He has some good ideas.The Clintons are political hounds. They would grab the political middle and stay there on issues because it most often gives them maximum support. America has too many major economic problems to want a political leader like that. Paul Ryan has been positioning himself as the future leader of the Republican party. Like the Clintons he will stay in the middle on issues to get maximum support. I don't see any future leader right now that would be willing to make the changes needed to made America politically and socially great again

caribny posted:

I suggest that you all put away the bubbly until November 8th at around 9PM.  While there is a 80-90% probability of a Hillary victory that still leaves slight room for the Monster to win.

There is a quiet fear that with Obama not running many blacks don't plan to vote.  If their turn out mirrors that of 2010 and 2014 that puts states like FL, NC, VA, and PA in jeopardy.   Its accepted that Trump is going to win OH.

Many progressive Blacks are embarrassed at the [non]achievements of Obama.  Blacks have [relatively] little to show for eight years of Black rule and just like in Guyana, even 28 years may not make a big difference.

Blacks continue to be incarcerated at alarming rates, single mothers struggle to bring up their kids with fathers locked away.  When they do get out, with a record, they are back scrounging for a living on the edge and usually back in trouble.  Obama has done nothing for this group.

Ok, he gave Obamacare so they off of Medicaid and on to the tax system but then he stuck it to the middle class who have to pick up the tab so the insurance companies could clear to zero.  What a waste!!

Blacks, if who think [crooked] Hillary will make any difference, you wasting your time.  She will not.  What Blacks [men] need are skills training, jobs and program to clean up their past so they can carry on.  I do feel pity for many Blacks who I know want to do better but is trapped in a system and believe in leaders who promise the sky but deliver sh1t!!!

Black leadership is a colossal failure as much as the Democratic political machinery which sees Blacks as mere votes to get to the WH.  Unless Blacks make that paradigm shift away from believing in false prophets and embrace political reality, the situation will not change!

And do not embrace the Leftist jokers like Kari, Stein and the rest, they are worse than the current Democratic cabal.

VOTE GOP, VOTE TRUMP!!

Prashad posted:

America needs a politically fearless leader to make the changes that are needed to put their economy and society back on a stable track.Someone like FDR. Trump has some good ideas but looking at his past it shows he most often does not follow what he says.  But I have to give the man credit. He has some good ideas.The Clintons are political hounds. They would grab the political middle and stay there on issues because it most often gives them maximum support. America has too many major economic problems to want a political leader like that. Paul Ryan has been positioning himself as the future leader of the Republican party. Like the Clintons he will stay in the middle on issues to get maximum support. I don't see any future leader right now that would be willing to make the changes needed to made America politically and socially great again

ba$eman posted:

caribny posted:

I suggest that you all put away the bubbly until November 8th at around 9PM.  While there is a 80-90% probability of a Hillary victory that still leaves slight room for the Monster to win.

There is a quiet fear that with Obama not running many blacks don't plan to vote.  If their turn out mirrors that of 2010 and 2014 that puts states like FL, NC, VA, and PA in jeopardy.   Its accepted that Trump is going to win OH.

Many progressive Blacks are embarrassed at the [non]achievements of Obama.  Blacks have [relatively] little to show for eight years of Black rule and just like in Guyana, even 28 years may not make a big difference.

Blacks continue to be incarcerated at alarming rates, single mothers struggle to bring up their kids with fathers locked away.  When they do get out, with a record, they are back scrounging for a living on the edge and usually back in trouble.  Obama has done nothing for this group.

Ok, he gave Obamacare so they off of Medicaid and on to the tax system but then he stuck it to the middle class who have to pick up the tab so the insurance companies could clear to zero.  What a waste!!

Blacks, if who think [crooked] Hillary will make any difference, you wasting your time.  She will not.  What Blacks [men] need are skills training, jobs and program to clean up their past so they can carry on.  I do feel pity for many Blacks who I know want to do better but is trapped in a system and believe in leaders who promise the sky but deliver sh1t!!!

Black leadership is a colossal failure as much as the Democratic political machinery which sees Blacks as mere votes to get to the WH.  Unless Blacks make that paradigm shift away from believing in false prophets and embrace political reality, the situation will not change!

And do not embrace the Leftist jokers like Kari, Stein and the rest, they are worse than the current Democratic cabal.

VOTE GOP, VOTE TRUMP!!

Racist like you pretend you know what black people think. It is why you presume you can speak for them despite the President being the most popular present in recent history and has brought us from the brink of economic collapse with seven years of movement away from financial ruin.

The majority of americans and not blacks alone, you racist pig, thinks  Hilary is better than trump and they are right. For that reason alone she will win. Black vote barely exceeds 10 percent and here you nasty racist skunks think they control the Democratic party!

I do not know why you think voting against your interest is a good thing. You are an outside to the nativism that has now infested the GOP.

ba$eman posted:

Kari posted:

The conservative movement is being torn asunder by Trump in a way that  Bernie Sanders exposed the Democrats in the Primaries. The issue is that there is a realignment in American politics under way that will be crystallized in a couple of election cycles. That realignment is because governance by both parties failed the average American.

 

President Obama is one who recognized this change, its reasons and know how to attempt to mitigate its effects. This realignment I speak about is driven by how technology is changing income and jobs. I hypothesize it's not about Trade Agreements; it is not about Immigration to America by non-whites and people of non-Christian persuasion. Technological advancement (the gig economy or sharing economy or autonomous virtual intelligence - whatever you want to call it) will mean the day will come when there will be no work, except for a tiny few, and government's job will be to provide for a citizenry that is not needed for work.

 

Trump gave voice to the perceived ills - the elites and special interests being among them, and the baggage that Hillary bears. With the white demographics as is, Trump will get his 38 to 40%. With the electoral college voting, all he needs is the white millennials and some white educated - about a 4% swing and he can win this election (that's a +8 and then there's the Independent candidates). He will of course seek to change the Supreme Court and favor small government (a myth), less taxes and survival of the fittest with more upheavals, especially as American whites have not come to grips yet and atoned for their treatment of native Indian displacement and Black slavery.

 

It's not time to sing Hillary's praises but to take stock and like Obama see how to stem the tide (no pun intended as he is pushing STEM in education to better equip the populace). Obama is tackling wealth inequality through government programs and income inequality and opportunities through education and infrastructure. Hillary gives the best hope for a continuance, but do not discount the unease of a good portion of American citizens who hear their voices in Donald J Trump.

President Obama has accelerated the divide within America.  He is an utter failure bringing little but stress and uncertainty and has stagnated the economy in red-tape and his ill conceived Obamacare.  The country is over-taxed and under-served!  Overseas, we are in disarray and have no direction prompting even the Philippines to want to break with us.

All of the above is true for racist because he represent the future of america where there is strength and unity in diversity and it is not the space for the subaltern dredges of under educated old white people in the fly over zones to make their last stand to recoup the gains they think the lost with jim crow. They live in the red zones of republican dominance yet they remain at the bottom of the society and it is not because they are robbed by black people who have their own problems but because they rely on politicians who see their pain as their gain. Time to being them out of that stasis..

Danyael posted:

ba$eman posted:

caribny posted:

I suggest that you all put away the bubbly until November 8th at around 9PM.  While there is a 80-90% probability of a Hillary victory that still leaves slight room for the Monster to win.

There is a quiet fear that with Obama not running many blacks don't plan to vote.  If their turn out mirrors that of 2010 and 2014 that puts states like FL, NC, VA, and PA in jeopardy.   Its accepted that Trump is going to win OH.

Many progressive Blacks are embarrassed at the [non]achievements of Obama.  Blacks have [relatively] little to show for eight years of Black rule and just like in Guyana, even 28 years may not make a big difference.

Blacks continue to be incarcerated at alarming rates, single mothers struggle to bring up their kids with fathers locked away.  When they do get out, with a record, they are back scrounging for a living on the edge and usually back in trouble.  Obama has done nothing for this group.

Ok, he gave Obamacare so they off of Medicaid and on to the tax system but then he stuck it to the middle class who have to pick up the tab so the insurance companies could clear to zero.  What a waste!!

Blacks, if who think [crooked] Hillary will make any difference, you wasting your time.  She will not.  What Blacks [men] need are skills training, jobs and program to clean up their past so they can carry on.  I do feel pity for many Blacks who I know want to do better but is trapped in a system and believe in leaders who promise the sky but deliver sh1t!!!

Black leadership is a colossal failure as much as the Democratic political machinery which sees Blacks as mere votes to get to the WH.  Unless Blacks make that paradigm shift away from believing in false prophets and embrace political reality, the situation will not change!

And do not embrace the Leftist jokers like Kari, Stein and the rest, they are worse than the current Democratic cabal.

VOTE GOP, VOTE TRUMP!!

Racist like you pretend you know what black people think. It is why you presume you can speak for them despite the President being the most popular present in recent history and has brought us from the brink of economic collapse with seven years of movement away from financial ruin.

The majority of americans and not blacks alone, you racist pig, thinks  Hilary is better than trump and they are right. For that reason alone she will win. Black vote barely exceeds 10 percent and here you nasty racist skunks think they control the Democratic party!

I do not know why you think voting against your interest is a good thing. You are an outside to the nativism that has now infested the GOP.

The easiest way to shut down a valid point is to call the messenger a racist!  And if you notice, I was not referring to the Buck man situation!!

I am not into your herd mentality!

ba$eman posted:

Danyael posted:

ba$eman posted:

caribny posted:

I suggest that you all put away the bubbly until November 8th at around 9PM.  While there is a 80-90% probability of a Hillary victory that still leaves slight room for the Monster to win.

There is a quiet fear that with Obama not running many blacks don't plan to vote.  If their turn out mirrors that of 2010 and 2014 that puts states like FL, NC, VA, and PA in jeopardy.   Its accepted that Trump is going to win OH.

Many progressive Blacks are embarrassed at the [non]achievements of Obama.  Blacks have [relatively] little to show for eight years of Black rule and just like in Guyana, even 28 years may not make a big difference.

Blacks continue to be incarcerated at alarming rates, single mothers struggle to bring up their kids with fathers locked away.  When they do get out, with a record, they are back scrounging for a living on the edge and usually back in trouble.  Obama has done nothing for this group.

Ok, he gave Obamacare so they off of Medicaid and on to the tax system but then he stuck it to the middle class who have to pick up the tab so the insurance companies could clear to zero.  What a waste!!

Blacks, if who think [crooked] Hillary will make any difference, you wasting your time.  She will not.  What Blacks [men] need are skills training, jobs and program to clean up their past so they can carry on.  I do feel pity for many Blacks who I know want to do better but is trapped in a system and believe in leaders who promise the sky but deliver sh1t!!!

Black leadership is a colossal failure as much as the Democratic political machinery which sees Blacks as mere votes to get to the WH.  Unless Blacks make that paradigm shift away from believing in false prophets and embrace political reality, the situation will not change!

And do not embrace the Leftist jokers like Kari, Stein and the rest, they are worse than the current Democratic cabal.

VOTE GOP, VOTE TRUMP!!

Racist like you pretend you know what black people think. It is why you presume you can speak for them despite the President being the most popular present in recent history and has brought us from the brink of economic collapse with seven years of movement away from financial ruin.

The majority of americans and not blacks alone, you racist pig, thinks  Hilary is better than trump and they are right. For that reason alone she will win. Black vote barely exceeds 10 percent and here you nasty racist skunks think they control the Democratic party!

I do not know why you think voting against your interest is a good thing. You are an outside to the nativism that has now infested the GOP.

The easiest way to shut down a valid point is to call the messenger a racist!  And if you notice, I was not referring to the Buck man situation!!

I am not into your herd mentality!

you would have to be the least self aware person of the at the bottom rung of social competency to not see you began ended on completely bigoted suppositions rather than fact.

Danyael posted:

ba$eman posted:

Danyael posted:

ba$eman posted:

caribny posted:

I suggest that you all put away the bubbly until November 8th at around 9PM.  While there is a 80-90% probability of a Hillary victory that still leaves slight room for the Monster to win.

There is a quiet fear that with Obama not running many blacks don't plan to vote.  If their turn out mirrors that of 2010 and 2014 that puts states like FL, NC, VA, and PA in jeopardy.   Its accepted that Trump is going to win OH.

Many progressive Blacks are embarrassed at the [non]achievements of Obama.  Blacks have [relatively] little to show for eight years of Black rule and just like in Guyana, even 28 years may not make a big difference.

Blacks continue to be incarcerated at alarming rates, single mothers struggle to bring up their kids with fathers locked away.  When they do get out, with a record, they are back scrounging for a living on the edge and usually back in trouble.  Obama has done nothing for this group.

Ok, he gave Obamacare so they off of Medicaid and on to the tax system but then he stuck it to the middle class who have to pick up the tab so the insurance companies could clear to zero.  What a waste!!

Blacks, if who think [crooked] Hillary will make any difference, you wasting your time.  She will not.  What Blacks [men] need are skills training, jobs and program to clean up their past so they can carry on.  I do feel pity for many Blacks who I know want to do better but is trapped in a system and believe in leaders who promise the sky but deliver sh1t!!!

Black leadership is a colossal failure as much as the Democratic political machinery which sees Blacks as mere votes to get to the WH.  Unless Blacks make that paradigm shift away from believing in false prophets and embrace political reality, the situation will not change!

And do not embrace the Leftist jokers like Kari, Stein and the rest, they are worse than the current Democratic cabal.

VOTE GOP, VOTE TRUMP!!

Racist like you pretend you know what black people think. It is why you presume you can speak for them despite the President being the most popular present in recent history and has brought us from the brink of economic collapse with seven years of movement away from financial ruin.

The majority of americans and not blacks alone, you racist pig, thinks  Hilary is better than trump and they are right. For that reason alone she will win. Black vote barely exceeds 10 percent and here you nasty racist skunks think they control the Democratic party!

I do not know why you think voting against your interest is a good thing. You are an outside to the nativism that has now infested the GOP.

The easiest way to shut down a valid point is to call the messenger a racist!  And if you notice, I was not referring to the Buck man situation!!

I am not into your herd mentality!

you would have to be the least self aware person of the at the bottom rung of social competency to not see you began ended on completely bigoted suppositions rather than fact.

Shut up...for a change!!

ba$eman posted:

Danyael posted:

ba$eman posted:

Danyael posted:

ba$eman posted:

caribny posted:

I suggest that you all put away the bubbly until November 8th at around 9PM.  While there is a 80-90% probability of a Hillary victory that still leaves slight room for the Monster to win.

There is a quiet fear that with Obama not running many blacks don't plan to vote.  If their turn out mirrors that of 2010 and 2014 that puts states like FL, NC, VA, and PA in jeopardy.   Its accepted that Trump is going to win OH.

Many progressive Blacks are embarrassed at the [non]achievements of Obama.  Blacks have [relatively] little to show for eight years of Black rule and just like in Guyana, even 28 years may not make a big difference.

Blacks continue to be incarcerated at alarming rates, single mothers struggle to bring up their kids with fathers locked away.  When they do get out, with a record, they are back scrounging for a living on the edge and usually back in trouble.  Obama has done nothing for this group.

Ok, he gave Obamacare so they off of Medicaid and on to the tax system but then he stuck it to the middle class who have to pick up the tab so the insurance companies could clear to zero.  What a waste!!

Blacks, if who think [crooked] Hillary will make any difference, you wasting your time.  She will not.  What Blacks [men] need are skills training, jobs and program to clean up their past so they can carry on.  I do feel pity for many Blacks who I know want to do better but is trapped in a system and believe in leaders who promise the sky but deliver sh1t!!!

Black leadership is a colossal failure as much as the Democratic political machinery which sees Blacks as mere votes to get to the WH.  Unless Blacks make that paradigm shift away from believing in false prophets and embrace political reality, the situation will not change!

And do not embrace the Leftist jokers like Kari, Stein and the rest, they are worse than the current Democratic cabal.

VOTE GOP, VOTE TRUMP!!

Racist like you pretend you know what black people think. It is why you presume you can speak for them despite the President being the most popular present in recent history and has brought us from the brink of economic collapse with seven years of movement away from financial ruin.

The majority of americans and not blacks alone, you racist pig, thinks  Hilary is better than trump and they are right. For that reason alone she will win. Black vote barely exceeds 10 percent and here you nasty racist skunks think they control the Democratic party!

I do not know why you think voting against your interest is a good thing. You are an outside to the nativism that has now infested the GOP.

The easiest way to shut down a valid point is to call the messenger a racist!  And if you notice, I was not referring to the Buck man situation!!

I am not into your herd mentality!

you would have to be the least self aware person of the at the bottom rung of social competency to not see you began ended on completely bigoted suppositions rather than fact.

Shut up...for a change!!

Getting under your skin with the truth? You wrote a six paragraphs of over 1400 words and the word "Black" as the subject in all and yet you think it is race neutral!

As a trumpeter you should call in to David Dukes to loan you his white hoodie and ask Bannon to give you a column on Breightbart where you can post such bilge uncontested. Just make sure none of the alt right fans know there is a dalit under the hood or they will most likely lynch you.

ba$eman posted:

his ill conceived Obamacare. 

Stop parroting what you don't understand.  Describe exactly how Obamacare is worse than what was there before. 

Describe the fact that people with pre-existing conditions couldn't buy health insurance. 

Describe that there were life time limitation on coverage meaning that very sick people weren't covered beyond a point. 

Describe that insurance companies could have sold all sorts of bogus products to gullible people that didn't understand that maternity care wasn't included, or that only sick babies were covered.

Describe the fact that kids were pushed out of their parents' plans at 18, or 22 if in college.

Describe the fact that in most states individual premiums were much HIGHER than they are today to the point where many continued to work until Medicare age only because they needed access to employer based health insurance. 

The problem with Obamacare is that it doesn't address the issue of the exploding healthcare costs, like drugs, hospitals, fees that specialists charge, the over medication of patients, etc.  But then NOTHING that the GOP suggest addresses this either.

The funny thing is that you endorse Trump's proposals even though they consist of the "best health insurance that you have ever seen".

The man started to babble about how his employees are having problems with Obamacare and then trailed off when he couldn't describe exactly how.  This because as a NY based company Obamacare has had scant impact on company based health insurance, especially for large businesses like his.

ba$eman posted:

 

Many progressive Blacks are embarrassed at the [non]achievements of Obama.  Blacks have [relatively] little to show for eight years of Black rule and just like in Guyana, even 28 years may not make a big difference.

Blacks continue to be incarcerated at alarming rates, single mothers struggle to bring up their kids with fathers locked away.  When they do get out, with a record, they are back scrounging for a living on the edge and usually back in trouble.  Obama has done nothing for this group.

 

And what did Trump do. He owns a company which is notorious for NOT hiring blacks. Many Caribbean black men arrive with constructions skills, especially in electrical, plumbing, HVAC.  Do they find work in the Trump Organization? NO!

Trump hires ILLEGAL MEXICANs and WHITE union workers!

Trump himself said that blacks have a lazy trait, so why will voting for Trump improve their condition when he doesn't think that they are fit to be hired.  And just to be sure, he not only thinks that poor black men are lazy, but he even extends this description to black MBAs, black CPAs, and black lawyers, because this comment was made when he was explaining why he doesn't hire black professionals.

ba$eman posted:

President Obama has accelerated the divide within America.  He is an utter failure bringing little but stress and uncertainty and has stagnated the economy in red-tape and his ill conceived Obamacare.  The country is over-taxed and under-served!  Overseas, we are in disarray and have no direction prompting even the Philippines to want to break with us.

Ba$e, you continue to live in your bubble. On Day 1 Mitch McConnell resolved to bring down the President of the USA. Have you looked at the tax rates under Obama and have you seen the Federal services he saved and/or expanded? Have you seen the strides against ISIS in spite of the ethnic rivalries over there?

Kari posted:

ba$eman posted:

President Obama has accelerated the divide within America.  He is an utter failure bringing little but stress and uncertainty and has stagnated the economy in red-tape and his ill conceived Obamacare.  The country is over-taxed and under-served!  Overseas, we are in disarray and have no direction prompting even the Philippines to want to break with us.

Ba$e, you continue to live in your bubble. On Day 1 Mitch McConnell resolved to bring down the President of the USA. Have you looked at the tax rates under Obama and have you seen the Federal services he saved and/or expanded? Have you seen the strides against ISIS in spite of the ethnic rivalries over there?

Kai wrong argument. Taxes under Obama are HIGHER than they were even under Bill Clinton.  You also ought to outline what Federal services that he has expanded.  

The question is whether these higher taxes have prevented job growth.  Clinton increased taxes yet more jobs were created than under the much revered Reagan. Reagan himself INCREASED taxes when he realized that his budget deficits had become unsustainable.  The best years of Reagan job growth occurred in his 2nd term AFTER the tax increases, as the budget deficits were a drag on the economy.

The biggest tax cuts occurred under George W Bush, and yet his TWO term presidency saw the most anemic job growth in recent times. Real income DECLINED under his presidency, erasing the increase in real incomes under Clinton.

Obama erased Bush's tax cuts and we have seen way more job growth, and last year even REAL income growth.

The Philippines president is a foul mouth vulgarian and a lesson to Baseman as to what a Trump presidency is. He calls killing innocent teenagers collateral damage.  His police fire bullets into protesting crowds. His crudeness alienates people who ought to be his allies.  Just as Trump will sell the USA out to Russia so is that idiot handing the Philippines over to China, even as China claims waters that belong to that nation.

caribny posted:

ba$eman posted:

his ill conceived Obamacare. 

Stop parroting what you don't understand.  Describe exactly how Obamacare is worse than what was there before. 

Describe the fact that people with pre-existing conditions couldn't buy health insurance. 

Describe that there were life time limitation on coverage meaning that very sick people weren't covered beyond a point. 

Describe that insurance companies could have sold all sorts of bogus products to gullible people that didn't understand that maternity care wasn't included, or that only sick babies were covered.

Describe the fact that kids were pushed out of their parents' plans at 18, or 22 if in college.

Describe the fact that in most states individual premiums were much HIGHER than they are today to the point where many continued to work until Medicare age only because they needed access to employer based health insurance. 

The problem with Obamacare is that it doesn't address the issue of the exploding healthcare costs, like drugs, hospitals, fees that specialists charge, the over medication of patients, etc.  But then NOTHING that the GOP suggest addresses this either.

The funny thing is that you endorse Trump's proposals even though they consist of the "best health insurance that you have ever seen".

The man started to babble about how his employees are having problems with Obamacare and then trailed off when he couldn't describe exactly how.  This because as a NY based company Obamacare has had scant impact on company based health insurance, especially for large businesses like his.

Listen, the entire concept is flawed.  What Obama forced onto the insurance is "medical welfare", not risk-based insurance decision-making.  Pre-existing condition, so you wait till you sick then go and get a policy, great.  I take out a life insurance on my death bed, nice.  They pay a few months then the insurance Co stuck with a big payout.

The issue is not the lifetime limits, yes, this could be addressed but the premiums will reflect the added risk the Insurance Cos take.

Understand this, premiums for most have doubled and deductibles gone up.  Why??  Because Obamacare have forced private Insurance Cos to take high risk clients whose costs way out-strip their pay-in.  So what happens, the insurance passed the costs back onto their existing base.

Understand this you punk, stop quoting political headlines and get to reality.  A significant amount of people on Obamacare gets subsidies, basically Obama's welfare constituency.  They are high-claiming customers but premiums are caped.  These people are the true beneficiaries, they get subsidies and as such pay next to nothing.  The average person gets no subsidies and the Insurance Cos are forced to pass the risk onto them who are paying through their noses.  Obamacare basically unloaded welfare medicaid onto the middle-class and small businesses.

Listen banna, you have no clue of what you speak, none.  You are a political headline parrot with no understanding of the reality.  The massive increases you are seeing is because, under Obamacare, companies are not clearing to zero. Obama have mixed Socialist welfare and a market risk-based system.

Why do you think there is a big outcry?  Why did Bill Clinton called it the "craziest thing ever?"  Get real, you have no clue, you are trapped in nonsensical political rhetoric!

Baseman here is why Obama resulted in a greater racial divide. Rich whites sold poor whites a bill of goods which said that even though they are poor, at least they are white. So deserve white privilege.

Along comes Obama and his very well educated and sophisticated wife and daughters.  They look at their drug addicted kids and suddenly realize that they aren't better than blacks.

So they want THEIR America back again. Well the truth is that they NEVER had it.  A history of white poverty in areas where support for the GOP is strongest showed that before the LBJ reforms destitution was rife.  Even today the greatest concentration of white poverty remains in areas which support the GOP!

The tax increases under Obama were largely for those making over $250,000 a year.

The services he expanded or saved were in the areas of the environment and parks and other expanded social services to deal with the post-2008 recession.

The Obamacare Premium increases will come from largely those insurance companies on the Exchanges in Republican-controlled States because they refused to take Federal money and Congress did not vote to cover insurance companies' losses de to a disproportionate actuarial absence of the young from the pool. Those increases will be offset by increased subsidies thanks to the increased taxes on the wealthy who are happy to pay it after the largess granted by G W Bush.

Kari posted:

.

The Obamacare Premium increases will come from largely those insurance companies on the Exchanges in Republican-controlled States

The premium increases have nothing to do with whether GOP states took Medicaid money or not. They reflect the fact that Obamacare doesn't address the issue of soaring healthcare costs and so premiums must be increased so that the insurance companies remain solvent. 

In NYS the only health insurance companies left in the Exchange are crummy companies like Metroplus and other Medicaid mills which have very small networks. NYS was one of the most compliant states with Obamacare, so why have reputable companies like Empire, Oxford and Aetna left the exchange?  They lost money that is why. Premiums received were less than claims paid.

The health insurance available on the exchange is substandard.

Danyael posted:

ba$eman posted:

Shut up...for a change!!

Getting under your skin with the truth? You wrote a six paragraphs of over 1400 words and the word "Black" as the subject in all and yet you think it is race neutral!

As a trumpeter you should call in to David Dukes to loan you his white hoodie and ask Bannon to give you a column on Breightbart where you can post such bilge uncontested. Just make sure none of the alt right fans know there is a dalit under the hood or they will most likely lynch you.

hehehe so true. 

Oi Baseman, check social where you asked Ronald's thoughts on the election, ( White and Light is afraid of Love) that banna gonna blow you away with his answer. This is the first time I would say...Bro Ron is bang on target.

After reading Ron's reply I immediately thought that banna doesn't need the meds he's into, it's Baseman,yugi,PrinceCobra,an all dem guys who refuse to see the light who should be swallowing those pills by the handful.

caribny posted:

Kari posted:

.

The Obamacare Premium increases will come from largely those insurance companies on the Exchanges in Republican-controlled States

The premium increases have nothing to do with whether GOP states took Medicaid money or not. They reflect the fact that Obamacare doesn't address the issue of soaring healthcare costs and so premiums must be increased so that the insurance companies remain solvent. 

In NYS the only health insurance companies left in the Exchange are crummy companies like Metroplus and other Medicaid mills which have very small networks. NYS was one of the most compliant states with Obamacare, so why have reputable companies like Empire, Oxford and Aetna left the exchange?  They lost money that is why. Premiums received were less than claims paid.

The health insurance available on the exchange is substandard.

Caribny, you have to let your audience know that while both per capita and aggregate spending on health care premium and services and drugs delivery have not gone on a decline, their rate of increase has slowed. Yes, the approach with Obamacare is not what you'd like given the realities of demand and supply and the need for incentives to innovate - the profit motive. It is however, a step in the direction of moving away from what we had prior to 2010. It needs fixing and a bipartisan approach.

Kari posted:

.

Caribny, you have to let your audience know that while both per capita and aggregate spending on health care premium and services and drugs delivery have not gone on a decline, their rate of increase has slowed. Yes, the approach with Obamacare is not what you'd like given the realities of demand and supply and the need for incentives to innovate - the profit motive. It is however, a step in the direction of moving away from what we had prior to 2010. It needs fixing and a bipartisan approach.

Healthcare costs continue to soar.  This is the problem with health insurance.

Neither the Democrats nor the GOP have developed a strategy to deal with this. The Dems are using subsidies and enhanced Medicaid to disguise this fact. The GOP peddle their usual fact free propaganda that "competition will cure all ills".

Until the government addresses the problem of soaring healthcare costs you will see more and more companies dropping out of the health exchanges, with only substandard ones remaining. 

A huge complaint in NYS is from people who discover that their health exchange insurance has a very narrow network of providers.  This forces them to pay out of pocket should they require access to quality tertiary level hospital care, in the event of a cancer, cardiac, or other serious health problem.   Listen to WNPR. These are liberals who complain.

In fact Oxford just announced that they are not only leaving the exchange, but will no longer even offer non exchange individual products.

BTW Kari NYS health insurance plans went up by over 15%.  This is way in excess of CPI inflation.

This is the imperatives of a realignment I speak of. In the last two election cycles it was about bringing health care coverage to about 30 million Americans. Part of that approach was to bring costs of premiums down with the individual mandate feature (insure or get fined by the IRS), working with the pharmaceutical industries and the providers to cut down on unnecessary procedures and visits. We've also seen where insurers cannot use the pre-existing condition to deny coverage and children up to 26 years of age can be on family plans.

Then came the cost escalation as the Republican dig in to obstruct claiming its not their plan. So what do we do?

Well, maybe not this election cycle, as making Obamacare versus making it better is on the ballot, but I can see where in 2020 this service will be elevated to the level of a right and some mix of a single payer or more government investment in some ways is coming. It's not masking the costs Caribny. It's about recognizing what to to in terms of mitigation. Is soaring costs a concomitant on medical science progress? Hell no! We can keep health care spending below the 21$ of GDP threshold. That's fixable. We do not have to keep government's spending in all areas of health care services to below 20% of the government budget. And that's not socialized medicine. That's a recognition of the new economics of labor income and mitigating its inadequacies. It fits into the larger picture of income inequality and what to do about it.

Obama is never given credit for this structural change in our economy rewarding structure and its mitigation. We last had a realignment with baby-boomers. Now the catch-phrase is millennials. 20 years from now history will recognize those who saw it coming and Obama will be its standard bearer.

Kari Medicare is going broke because of the same escalating health care costs. They pay doctors pennies, so increasing numbers no longer take it.

So where is a single payer system going to come from.  The USA has a serious crisis of access to healthcare looming and neither the Dems nor the GOP are addressing it.

In fact too many people who opine are people like you who know nothing on this topic.

What that will lead to will be those with employer based health insurance, who will get quality care, and those who lack this given inferior Medicaid level plans.  And even for the employer plans, more of the rank and file will be forced into high deductible plans as they cannot afford to assume a higher % of the premium costs!

The vast majority of those who have been enrolled receive subsidies.  Rather than having to pay the bulk of the premium increases the government will have to pay. Note that the Feds didn't plan to incur this costs indefinitely, so that the states will have to assume their share of these costs.

Now imagine states, already burdened with out of control retiree costs, now having to assume additional out of control healthcare costs for those who receive subsidies.

And at the Federal level we have the Social Security ticking time bomb.

Don't buy Hillary's political pandering that only the super rich will be taxed for this, or the corporations.  That latter have lobbies to protect their interests, and there aren't enough super rich to cover the incremental costs of these programs.

Don't make me laugh at the fine. The kids have already worked out that the fine will be equivalent to 2 month's premium, so they are still ahead of the game. Its the older and sicker population that will buy into this, unless they get subsidies, and this makes a bad situation even worse!

Caribny, I've scoured your posts in this thread and this is what I find:

• You report the obvious findings
• You present no explanation for these findings
• You have no solution to the above

That makes you a Donald Trump disciple. Low-information, full-throated denunciation of serious discussions on topics that matter.

Kari posted:

Caribny, I've scoured your posts in this thread and this is what I find:

• You report the obvious findings
• You present no explanation for these findings
• You have no solution to the above

 

That makes you a Donald Trump disciple. Low-information, full-throated denunciation of serious discussions on topics that matter.

To the contrary. I express my opinion. I back my opinion with facts. I warned you not to pull out the bubbly before Nov 8. Even BEFORE the FBI election rigging scam polls were showing a tightening of the race. Consider that Trump support is probably underestimated as many are embarrassed to admit that they plan to vote for him.

It matters not that Hillary might be gaining ground in GA or TX as she cannot win those states. What matters is that in FL and PA polls show that her margin of victory has narrowed.  If she loses FL she has to win PA and VA. She will lose OH.

You print White House press releases. And you don't even really understand these releases.  You then resort to personal attacks, as you lack the knowledge, or maybe even the intelligence to refute my arguments.

For evidence of this look at the nonsense you are writing about the Obamacare.

Even Hillary concedes that Obamacare has serious problems if it is to remain viable. Even she concedes that a major focus on dealing with the underlying costs will be essential.

NYS saw premiums in the Health Exchange increase by over 15% for the reputable plans.  Every day people are calling NPR about problems they have with plans like Metroplus. Narrow networks and a lot of denial of claims, leaving many to pay huge sums out of pocket. The best hospitals aren't included, leaving cancer patients in serious difficulties. 

NYS is one of the states that has been very compliant with the Feds in Obamacare and yet there are problems. Because you know nothing of healthcare economics, or how healthcare is delivered in this country you cannot defend your WH press releases.

Like Obama, you think that papering over these warts with subsidies will hide the problem.  Here is the deal. Obama is gone in January regardless as to who wins, so he really doesn't care about the long terms success. It will be the next president who will have to deal with the mess.

In addition your analysis of realignment of American politics is naïve.

Ironically the worst thing that can happen to the Dems is if they stomp the GOP next week.

Why a naïve and simple person like you will ask?

Because the same deep analysis that the Dems did prior to 1992, that they move to the center, allowing Bill to be a 2 term president, and allowing Gore to win, but for the Supreme Court coup, will happen within the GOP.

The voices that screamed that the GOP had been hijacked by the lunatic right, and that the GOP should move to the center, will become shriller if Trump leads them down to a sound thrashing.  You will hear more voices like Todd Whitman, Steele and other GOP moderates.  Even the Bush family have become more contrite.

http://www.nytimes.com/project...rsey/exit-polls.html

Chris Christie won 51% of the Hispanic vote and 21% of the black vote in his 2013 elections. This shows that the Dems don't have as much of a lock on minority votes as some will think. Even Bush won 44% of the Hispanic vote in 2004.

The only reason why the Dems win is because they get 80% of the minority vote.  It isn't that minorities think highly of them.  Its that they fear the GOP. 

The Dems have as much work to do as do the GOP. They cannot think that they will always win 80% of the minority vote, as the GOP will eventually learn that ageing rednecks cannot win them elections.

If the GOP improve their performance among middle class blacks, and among US born Hispanics and Asians, the Dems will have to be better than the 38% of the white vote that they are currently getting!

caribny posted:

Kari posted:

.

The Obamacare Premium increases will come from largely those insurance companies on the Exchanges in Republican-controlled States

The premium increases have nothing to do with whether GOP states took Medicaid money or not. They reflect the fact that Obamacare doesn't address the issue of soaring healthcare costs and so premiums must be increased so that the insurance companies remain solvent. 

In NYS the only health insurance companies left in the Exchange are crummy companies like Metroplus and other Medicaid mills which have very small networks. NYS was one of the most compliant states with Obamacare, so why have reputable companies like Empire, Oxford and Aetna left the exchange?  They lost money that is why. Premiums received were less than claims paid.

The health insurance available on the exchange is substandard.

It's funny how you oppose what I say, then you agree with much of my position.  Caribj is a fake and liar.  And isn't it the position of Trump to open up the marketplace to cross-border competition?  From what you wrote here, you are admitting this is one of the core issues.

The increases reflect the risks forced onto insurance companies where was not in their model.  Some of the risks forced onto the Cos should be risk the Govt takes for people with conditions which are difficult to insure.  Also, Obamacare encourages people to wait until a condition develops, then people go and get insurance.

Obamacare screwed up the heath insurance market by forcing onto the system a welfare-style component.  Obama, in hos folly, allowed the system to be hijacked by socialists and excluded the voice of the insurance Cos and small business.  He was transfixed on the welfare class and [true] some unfortunates, but the solution was wrong.

One of his poster examples turned out not qualifying and ended up remaining uninsured due to high costs, and she was an average struggling woman.  These are the droves of people shut out and suffering worse.

cain posted:

Danyael posted:

ba$eman posted:

Shut up...for a change!!

Getting under your skin with the truth? You wrote a six paragraphs of over 1400 words and the word "Black" as the subject in all and yet you think it is race neutral!

As a trumpeter you should call in to David Dukes to loan you his white hoodie and ask Bannon to give you a column on Breightbart where you can post such bilge uncontested. Just make sure none of the alt right fans know there is a dalit under the hood or they will most likely lynch you.

hehehe so true. 

Oi Baseman, check social where you asked Ronald's thoughts on the election, ( White and Light is afraid of Love) that banna gonna blow you away with his answer. This is the first time I would say...Bro Ron is bang on target.

After reading Ron's reply I immediately thought that banna doesn't need the meds he's into, it's Baseman,yugi,PrinceCobra,an all dem guys who refuse to see the light who should be swallowing those pills by the handful.

He is clever.  His condition creates a neurological imbalance, but he ain't foolish by any stretch!  I believe Kari, Caribj, and D2 have worse issues within the mental spectrum, though they are still functional!

ba$eman posted:

.

It's funny how you oppose what I say, then you agree with much of my position.  Caribj is a fake and liar.  And isn't it the position of Trump to open up the marketplace to cross-border competition?  .

Listen baseman you know even less about this than Kari.  How will it be competition if Empire Blue Iowa is competing with Empireblue NY.

There has been massive consolidation in health insurance so there is no competition to get.

And this doesn't address the fact that the reason why premiums are uncreasing is because healthcare costs are increasing?

If prescription drugs and hospital costs are high how does competition help?  In fact there will be no competition beyond what we already have.

And here is your nonsense. The GOP are against any public support to compensate insurance companies for having to ensure unhealthy people. They are against the public option which would allow the state to assume risks for people too difficult to ensure.

Baseman do you suggest that sick people be left to die on the streets? Because this is what the GOP want to do.

ba$eman posted:

cain posted:

hehehe so true. 

Oi Baseman, check social where you asked Ronald's thoughts on the election, ( White and Light is afraid of Love) that banna gonna blow you away with his answer. This is the first time I would say...Bro Ron is bang on target.

After reading Ron's reply I immediately thought that banna doesn't need the meds he's into, it's Baseman,yugi,PrinceCobra,an all dem guys who refuse to see the light who should be swallowing those pills by the handful.

He is clever.  His condition creates a neurological imbalance, but he ain't foolish by any stretch!  I believe Kari, Caribj, and D2 have worse issues within the mental spectrum, though they are still functional!

I couldn't agree with you more about Ron when you said he is not a foolish person well that shows, here is his post for those who dont venture on Social.

Ronald Anthony Arjune posted:

ba$eman posted:

I have a question if you are following the US elections.  What's your view on Hillary, Trump or middle-man Johnson for president?

Thank you ba$eman sir for your response. I don't follow politics but it's an issue in my subconscious that's uncomfortably pressing on my nerves as if they will continue the same manipulation as other presidents. Barack Obama was a good president and under his administration I reasoned a lot using my mental illness and I think he was true and did not manipulate the American people. The white presidents could not help being manipulators and this may have to do with doing what the devil wants. I think Hillary Clinton is dedicated and has some heart and can connect with us with her emotions and I am an emotional guy Ba$eman. Donald Trump is a practical man but not using his heart will put us in a lot of trouble especially with getting us involved in issues of sensitivity that govern morality such as being gay or putting people in jail for small crimes and not respecting the rights of Islamic people. Building a wall to stop Mexicans from crossing the border into the US is showing his unwillingness to reason on an humanitarian level. My intuition cannot apply itself on Mr. Johnson because I don't recognize him on Television and his low popularity due to obscurity will certainly not make him win the office of the president and I am sorry for that conclusion because he seems kind and understanding of human nature.

ILLUMINATI COMMAND: Neutralize love and identify God. Oct 29, 2016. Electrical potential is 1.5 volts Eveready.

Caribny, when will you offer an analysis of the ills of Obamacare and suggest solutions? All Ii hear is the obvious that's being reported about premiums, exchanges , federal and states funding, taxes, etc. State supply and demand and pricing practices among actuaries and providers. Otherwise, it's same ole, same ole.

Kari posted:

Caribny, when will you offer an analysis of the ills of Obamacare and suggest solutions? .

My solution is that they have to focus on containing cost increases.  It is for those involved in healthcare delivery to figure out what exactly they ought to do.  It is they and not a bunch of lawyers and politicians who should be leading this effort.

With due respect to Barack Obama he is one of those lawyers.  So we have a plan that will collapse unless they deal with the high cost of delivering health care in the USA.

The weaknesses of Obamacare is because it was left in the hands of lawyers and politicians who didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

1.  The promise that "you will keep your doctors". How when the only way that the insurance companies could have reduced their costs was by reducing their administrative expenses? So they reduced their networks and eliminated many of the highest cost (and often better) providers. 

One good aspect of Obamacare is that the premiums that insurance companies charge is tied to the cost of reimbursing healthcare, so they are forced to maintain profits by cost containment, and not by excessive premiums. They however cannot reduce their costs if healthcare providers and suppliers don't.

2. The promise that "you will get cheap and high quality health insurance on the exchanges". How when the cost of healthcare delivery is high and if insurances companies don't charge enough they go bankrupt.  Go and research Health Republic and see if they still exist in NYS. No because they tried to provide cheap insurance and collapsed. Next to go will go Oscar.

I hope that Hillary locks up the doctors, the hospitals, the pharmaceutical companies and those who make medical devices in  a room, and tells them to fix the problem.