APNU has already been showing its true colours. The name change has not liberated the PNC from its wish to run things like Burnham did. Any progressive and modern day party who claims to have left the bad old days behind would be far more objective in its demands. Instead APNU is making a valid point why it will never be fit to govern the country whilst the majority of voters are in favour of freedom. Even if that freedom comes at the price of high level corruption and increasing crime.
As a Far Eastern saying goes: let the dog snarl and fight for the bone. The meat has already been removed.
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by Nuff:
Let the AFC go vote with the PPP. It will show their true colors to the people who voted for them in during the 2011 elections.
In fact the AFC will be forced to merge with the PPP in future elections if they go that route, because their base will be eroded. They will lose their supporters. The AFC is part of the opposition, or maybe some believe they are part of the ruling party.
That's why I don't lean towards the AFC, because I don't really understand where they stand. I know exactly what I am getting with the PPP and APNU.
Bai, alyuh dozz mek abie coolie laff. Who care you nah lean to AFC, da good. Afros abandon AFC and leff am to da coolies. Abie see alyuh trick and now AFC gon lose da coolie vote. Why abie coolie muss vote foa weaken PPP, gi alyuh lil powah and den fuss ting alyuh waant feed abie to daggs? Datt's waan lose-lose proposition, alyuh tink abie stupid nah?
Former Member
Then ... let the AFC go join forces with the PPP. Do you think they will get a sweetheart deal with the PPP?quote:Originally posted by seignet:
To share the speakers chair is counter productive.
The Combined Opposition has the votes to choose. The PPP will name their choice. However the CO must select one person and not this stupidity that they practicing.
APNU ONLY HAS 26 SEATS. THE AFC WITH ONLY 7 SEATS has the upper hand.
I bet the PPP will strike a much harder bargain than the APNU is currently striking. This is hardball dude. The PPP is ruthless.
The APNU demands of the AFC are mild when you consider what the PPP will ask of the AFC. The PPP will deflower the AFC just to allow the AFC to appoint its own speaker.
You think I am kidding? This isn't like you just walk over to the OP and say, .... "OK, how about making Moses the speaker".
That's why the AFC is caught between a rock and a hard place. They must compromise. They will never get the perfect deal.
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by Nuff:Then ... let the AFC go join forces with the PPP. Do you think they will get a sweetheart deal with the PPP?quote:Originally posted by seignet:
To share the speakers chair is counter productive.
The Combined Opposition has the votes to choose. The PPP will name their choice. However the CO must select one person and not this stupidity that they practicing.
APNU ONLY HAS 26 SEATS. THE AFC WITH ONLY 7 SEATS has the upper hand.
I bet the PPP will strike a harder bargain than the APNU is currently striking. This is hardball dude. The PPP is ruthless.
The APNU demands on the AFC are mild when you consider what the PPP will ask of the AFC. The PPP will deflower the AFC just to allow the AFC to appoint its own speaker.
You think I am kiodding. This isn't like you just walk over to the OP and say, .... OK how about making Moses the speaker.
PPP is in strong position caazz dem know AFC will lose support come next election. PNC and AFC can only play limited hardball.
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by Mr.T:
If I was making the decisions in the AFC, I would threaten to vote with the PPP on each and every issue . . .
There . . . . THAT will show them how 'independent' and principled we are!!
F**k the country, eh? Now it's all about perogatives and entitlements.
Some of y'all 'AFC supporters' done lose your freakin minds
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by redux:quote:Originally posted by Mr.T:
If I was making the decisions in the AFC, I would threaten to vote with the PPP on each and every issue . . .
There . . . . THAT will show them how 'independent' and principled we are!!
F**k the country, eh? Now it's all about perogatives and entitlements.
Some of y'all 'AFC supporters' done lose your freakin minds
No scruples whatsoever.
People forget who put them in power once elections are over. They also forget what they promised the voters during campaign season.
I would love to see the AFC run to the PPP as some writers on this bboard wish. The PPP would rape the AFC.
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by caribj:quote:Originally posted by ABIDHA:
You can't trust ANPU-AFC to have the speaker's influence.
You are right because they might join up to ensure that corrupt PPP officials are PUNISHED.
or they will demand 50% of the perks...
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by Sledgehammer:quote:Originally posted by Nuff:
Let the AFC go vote with the PPP. It will show their true colors to the people who voted for them in during the 2011 elections.
In fact the AFC will be forced to merge with the PPP in future elections if they go that route, because their base will be eroded. They will lose their supporters. The AFC is part of the opposition, or maybe some believe they are part of the ruling party.
That's why I don't lean towards the AFC, because I don't really understand where they stand. I know exactly what I am getting with the PPP and APNU.
Bai, alyuh dozz mek abie coolie laff. Who care you nah lean to AFC, da good. Afros abandon AFC and leff am to da coolies. Abie see alyuh trick and now AFC gon lose da coolie vote. Why abie coolie muss vote foa weaken PPP, gi alyuh lil powah and den fuss ting alyuh waant feed abie to daggs? Datt's waan lose-lose proposition, alyuh tink abie stupid nah?
awww . . . shaddup stink panty man!
scratching ur privates then sniffing your fingers in public is beyond disgusting . . . and getting kinda old.
Former Member
The rotation business will not work as the APNU cannot be trust to deliver on any promise. Remember when the PPP, PNC and the Green party agreed to rotate the mayor's job in the GT city council. When it was time for the PPP to govern, they backtrack on their promise.
How Can we trust them again.
I still believe that the best deals will be the ones with APNU and it must be in writing after negotiations are completed and signed.
I also believe that deborah backer wil be a fine speaker. She will act as a mediator bewteen the two coolie parties. She will prevent them from killing each other..
Amen..
How Can we trust them again.
I still believe that the best deals will be the ones with APNU and it must be in writing after negotiations are completed and signed.
I also believe that deborah backer wil be a fine speaker. She will act as a mediator bewteen the two coolie parties. She will prevent them from killing each other..
Amen..
Former Member
Redux, I am seeing a different light of you today. Your constructive criticism is very welcome..
I wasa pleasure hear you this morning..
I wasa pleasure hear you this morning..
Former Member
There are no herrings mackerels, sardines or sharks here. The idea of a reciprocating arrangement means collusion. Further, it is a fixing of the rules extra constitutionally. It is bad on the level of perception of independence and on the level of obeying the rules,quote:Originally posted by redux:quote:Originally posted by D2:I object to "arrangements" as a euphemism for "collusion". The AFC is to act in the interest of the people and that can mean aligning with the APNU on some issues and the PPP on others. As much as I think the PPP acted like consummate crooks these past 2 decades I do not exclude them ever from having a good idea. The AFC is to be about good ideas from whomever as that is the desired ends.quote:Originally posted by redux:quote:Originally posted by D2:
I am against side arrangements as quid pro quo for future action. We do not have merely a PPP problem. We have an APNU problem as well. Both have strung us along for 6 decades.
The AFC either get the position of speaker or not. They cannot be seen as making arrangements with the expectation of their support all the time. That would be the message if they promise to share an important position as this.
Reining in the PPP is not to be seen as facilitating the APNU. The objective is independence and sharing means perpetual alliance. It also means circumventing the Constitution via political arrangement, I am strictly a constitutionalists and this should not happen.
It allowed the PPP to keep the presidency reserved for Indians with the PM position a bench warming position for placating blacks. That is what happens with extra constitutional political arrangements. It should never happen and we should never let it happen even in stop gap circumstances.
Once again, the AFC is to be independent, If they do not get the position then so be it. If the APNU gets it, the PPP deserves what they will get. If the PPP gets it, it would mean a failure of the AFC. They cannot let happen but it means the APNU is like the PPP, seeking only their ends and not the moral space the AFC represents. The AFC is in a spot here but they should play the hand they are dealt independently and not because a quid pro quo exists, Tell the two party they want the position and the will take it with the help of any of the two party but not because of the expectation of future support.
The 1 seat [combined] Opposition majority BY DEFINITION requires 'arrangements' between AFC and APNU for the election results to represent meaningful change . . . recall legislation makes that so!
Therefore, I don't know what is objectionable about "facilitating APNU" or 'facilitating the AFC' for that matter in this context. To compare these kinds of necessary negotiations to the PPP's PM arrangements [not a constitutional question at all] is . . . strange.
Also, you have not yet made the case that a [proposed] APNU/AFC "sharing" arrangement is unconstitutional . . . I will wait on input from more learned counsel out of Guyana before commenting further on this.
Fact is though, dressing up a dismissive 'all or nothing' demand regarding the "Speakership" issue as an avatar of "independence" is really no different from the 'bullyism' that has justifiably dogged the PNC all these years.
The PPP is slyly stoking this nonsensical 'feud' while laughing their collective heads off at the short sightedness of those who would be their 'opposition.'
I know the PPP arrangement with respect to their arrangement with CIVIC for the PM post is a fix and contrary the constitutional imperative as to lines of succession. I also think the idea of taking turns with the speaker position similarly demeans it. The AFC should not make "arrangements" of any kind even if it means losing the position.
This business of the PPP never having a good idea is a red herring.
How does any principled deal between APNU/AFC regarding the Speakership force the AFC to oppose good legislation by the PPP? Do the math . . . AFC + PPP = 39 seats! Where does that leave APNU - even with an APNU Speaker??!
BTW, the PPP's arrangements regarding the Prime Ministership represents intra party (PPP/CIVIC) corruption but is not contrary to any "constitutional imperative as to lines of succession" . . . even though, in practice, it mocks the SPIRIT of the law.
What I find distressing is that we seem to be missing the forest for the trees . . . the PPP is the incumbent power to be constrained. The APNU coalition is in opposition and is powerless to do ANYTHING on its own!
No one breaches the law if it is circumvented by chicainery as the PPP did through resignation of the PM then having the selected president succeed. It means they have deliberately set about to thwart the lines of succession. We noted how the Americans feel when Al Haig said he was in charge, We ought to feel the same outrage with these "arrangements".
With respect to the speakership, one of the three parties should get the job. The options are clear for all of them. The APNU cannot let the PPP Have it and the PPP cannot let the APNU have it. It is up to them to place their trust in the system and give it to the third party. If they push for otherwise it is on account of lack of trust and greed. Our decision must be made on the best use of power not for power sake. We cannot make arrangements simply to circumvent process. The AFC should let the position pass by if the only other option is to cut a deal on future decisions.
quote:Originally posted by redux:quote:Originally posted by Mr.T:
If I was making the decisions in the AFC, I would threaten to vote with the PPP on each and every issue . . .
There . . . . THAT will show them how 'independent' and principled we are!!
F**k the country, eh? Now it's all about perogatives and entitlements.
Some of y'all 'AFC supporters' done lose your freakin minds
APNu and the PPP seem to think that Guyana cannot do without them. As the voters have shown in the last election, that is not the case. The AFC was not voted in so that their members of parliament could sit back quietly and enjoy a government salary, safe in the knowledge that APNU and PPP were running things properly. We all know that ain't so.
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by redux:quote:Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
Bai, alyuh dozz mek abie coolie laff. Who care you nah lean to AFC, da good. Afros abandon AFC and leff am to da coolies. Abie see alyuh trick and now AFC gon lose da coolie vote. Why abie coolie muss vote foa weaken PPP, gi alyuh lil powah and den fuss ting alyuh waant feed abie to daggs? Datt's waan lose-lose proposition, alyuh tink abie stupid nah?
awww . . . shaddup stink panty man!
scratching ur privates then sniffing your fingers in public is beyond disgusting . . . and getting kinda old.
Eh eh bai, you giving out free lessons mi see. Nah mek worries, massa day done.
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by Mr.T:
APNu and the PPP seem to think that Guyana cannot do without them. .
You know its amzing that the supporters of a party which was rejected by 90% of the voters shows such an exagerated sense of their importance.
1. The AFC has failed to make a case that Guyanese should vote for them.
2. The AFC ha sbecome an outlet where people, frustaretd with teh party that tehy traditional support, but unwilling to support the alternate because of their ethnic fears, then register a protest vote thru the AFC. Its likely that maybe only 3% of the voters are hard core AFC supporters.
It remains to be seen whether the Berbice Indo votes that the AFC got this time, will not vanish as did many of the Afro/mixed voters who supported the AFC in 2006, but ran back to APNU this time.
What the AFC needs to do is to
1. Try to understand why their performance was so abysmal. They need to note that if APNU performed equally poorly (with the same 35% they got in 2006) the PPP would have INCREASED their seat allocation. Its the APNU which pulled out its voters which allowed AFCs meagre 10% to have some meaning.
2. The AFC needs to make a case for itself so that it develops its own base rather than relaying on temporary "protest" support from supporters of the PNC and the PPP.
Otherwise if either, or both APNU and the PPP use the next 3/5 years gainfully and earm credibility with the voters and increased cross over votes the AFC will be history.
Take it from the person who said taht the AFC will do poorly because the spent all their time in Berbice and neglected other voters.
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
Redux, I am seeing a different light of you today. Your constructive criticism is very welcome..
I wasa pleasure hear you this morning..
Oi Rama . . . where are my manners
SALUD!
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by D2:
I think the AFC should hold out. The PPP cannot let APNU get the position. The AFC can. If the PPP thinks it can hold out and it will by default get the position they will lose. C.
The PPP will get it because there is no way that APNU will take Nagamootoo. If AFC remains stubborn on this point Ramkarran gets it because at some point a Speaker will have to eb selected.
Former Member
Ramkarran should be the speaker.....
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by albert:
Ramkarran should be the speaker.....
It does appear so. It will really be funny if he gets it with APNU support...just to teach AFC a lesson that there 7 seats dont mean squat.
quote:Originally posted by caribj:quote:Originally posted by albert:
Ramkarran should be the speaker.....
It does appear so. It will really be funny if he gets it with APNU support...just to teach AFC a lesson that there 7 seats dont mean squat.
Hold yuh horses! The AFC is no longer a junior PPP as you claimed?
Former Member
quote:Originally posted by Mitwah:
Hold yuh horses! The AFC is no longer a junior PPP as you claimed?
Daddy PPP will want to spank junior just to ensure that he does as he is told.
Now APNU will look at two PPP men. Nagamootoo and Ramkarran and chose the less evil of the two. They know Ramkarran as Speaker. They dont know Nagamootoo as Speaker though they know his devotion for the PPP is so deep that he tolerated 5 years of abuse from them.
So if the AFC wants the Speaker position they will select some one who APNU can live with. If they dont then why should APNU support their quest. Put it this way. Its obvious by now that APNu isnt getting that slot.
Former Member
If that is their own reason then they are not trusting in the integrity of a man vs an institution. I would take the former and so would any sensible person but sense seem to be at a minimum with that lot in the APNU. On the grounds that they would reject Nagamottoo they would all be deemed worthless as well.quote:Originally posted by caribj:quote:Originally posted by D2:
I think the AFC should hold out. The PPP cannot let APNU get the position. The AFC can. If the PPP thinks it can hold out and it will by default get the position they will lose. C.
The PPP will get it because there is no way that APNU will take Nagamootoo. If AFC remains stubborn on this point Ramkarran gets it because at some point a Speaker will have to eb selected.
quote:Originally posted by caribj:quote:Originally posted by Mitwah:
Hold yuh horses! The AFC is no longer a junior PPP as you claimed?
Daddy PPP will want to spank junior just to ensure that he does as he is told.
Now APNU will look at two PPP men. Nagamootoo and Ramkarran and chose the less evil of the two. They know Ramkarran as Speaker. They dont know Nagamootoo as Speaker though they know his devotion for the PPP is so deep that he tolerated 5 years of abuse from them.
So if the AFC wants the Speaker position they will select some one who APNU can live with. If they dont then why should APNU support their quest. Put it this way. Its obvious by now that APNu isnt getting that slot.
Even more justification for the speakership to go to the AFC.
I believe the AFC will divide into racial factions if Ramjattan works with the PPP in electing a speaker. KR and MN do not want their careers go down the drain. working with the PPP could bring them back in the party in 2016. Jagdeo is no longer around to prevent these guys from returning home.
Add Reply
Sign In To Reply
322 online (0 members
/
322 guests)