Mars posted:

TK posted:

Mars posted:

TK posted:

Not so fast! Still not convinced. I never made the point that 207 people are being housed in the old OP complex. They can't. Some of these functions have to be housed in other buildings. As a matter of fact, I am more interested in the growth of contract employment over all agencies of govt from 2005 to 2016. But let's get back to the 207 individuals. Remember some PPP people were sent home. So, did they take existing public servants and add them to the contract list? Why? Were all the 207 existing contract employees already working under PPP in other agencies? I don't have to defend Ram. No one is questioning the numbers since he got them while doing the Review. Or did Ram made up the numbers?

You're missing the point and that's why you are not convinced. The 207 employees are contract workers who were already employed in various agencies which are now consolidated under the MOTP. Do you really think that 207 people can be hired without someone noticing? Common sense alone would tell you that it's not possible.

The MOTP now has all these agencies -  The OP, the Public Service Ministry and Staff College, the department of Natural Resources and the Environment, the Ministry of Citizenship, the Ministry of Social cohesion, Immigration, E-Governance, the National Community Development Council and the General Registrar’s office. Chris Ram is comparing the number of employees in the OP alone from PPP days vs all these agencies today. Totally absurd. The OP as a separate entity had a staff reduction from 375 to 325.

That's what you are saying but we don't know for certain that the 207 includes only consolidation. Of course it is possible to hire 207 people in different agencies. But I don't think all of it is due to new employment on contract, but anecdotal evidence says quite a few were new hires. Many hired because they were faithful "house to house" soldiers and not because they can do the job. Chris should not have compared OP with MOTP. He should have examined the contract employment numbers from year to year. Someone needs to do this. You will be surprised.

Until you and Chris Ram do a proper comparison, you're just guessing and blowing hot air. You can't compare the numbers from the OP alone vs the numbers for the OP and six other agencies. Let's do a fair comparison first and then draw conclusions based on those numbers.

I am almost certain there were new contract employment. I'm interested in contract employment for the entire system. Let's add the quasi-government agencies also.

TK posted:

redux posted:

TK posted:

. . . I'm not yet convinced by the explanations. Ok, so several agencies came under MOTP. There were 298 in 2015 and in 2016 they now have 505. I'd like to know what percentage of the increase came from bringing existing functions under MOTP vs the percentage new hires. The reason I can't be convinced is because I'm guided by the theory that people are in politics in Guyana not for the purpose of national development, but for jobs. I doubt all 207 = 505 - 298 were due to bringing more functions under MOTP. I get it that they have to employ people who walked door to door, but I still want to know whether the increase of 207 is purely due to enlargement. We also should know whether every single person from 2015 (PPP days) was retained.

seriously . . . this is beyond weak

smh

Why is it weak? If some people were sent home or resigned and we have 207 more what does that mean?

you elevate 'moving the goalposts' to high(er) GT art

redux posted:

TK posted:

redux posted:

TK posted:

. . . I'm not yet convinced by the explanations. Ok, so several agencies came under MOTP. There were 298 in 2015 and in 2016 they now have 505. I'd like to know what percentage of the increase came from bringing existing functions under MOTP vs the percentage new hires. The reason I can't be convinced is because I'm guided by the theory that people are in politics in Guyana not for the purpose of national development, but for jobs. I doubt all 207 = 505 - 298 were due to bringing more functions under MOTP. I get it that they have to employ people who walked door to door, but I still want to know whether the increase of 207 is purely due to enlargement. We also should know whether every single person from 2015 (PPP days) was retained.

seriously . . . this is beyond weak

smh

Why is it weak? If some people were sent home or resigned and we have 207 more what does that mean?

you elevate 'moving the goalposts' to high(er) GT art

I'm looking at some data right now that says there was a 16% increase in contract employment from 2015 to 2016. This is for the entire public service.

This government should not embrace this practice whatever the number of employees. It simply continues the practice of making workers the boot of ministers. It is an absolutely shameless practice that has no place in the civil service.

Stormborn posted:

This government should not embrace this practice whatever the number of employees. It simply continues the practice of making workers the boot of ministers. It is an absolutely shameless practice that has no place in the civil service.

i agree

TK posted:

I'm looking at some data right now that says there was a 16% increase in contract employment from 2015 to 2016. This is for the entire public service.

a nice place to start is breaking down those numbers to show totals pre and post elections . . . the PPP effectively ran the country for half of that period

separately, i again point to the bloat that likely occurs because some square peg PPP contract hires cannot be let go because of sensitivity to the 'ethnic cleansing' charge

with the hiring of Granger loyalists [yes, many of them square pegs too] in some of these positions and effective sidelining of jagdeoite incumbents still on the payroll, it doesn't take a genius to figure why the contract numbers rise

let us be fair . . . this is going to be a lengthy transition process to something resembling the professional Public Service some of the old timers can still remember, and which i believe is absolutely necessary for a fractured country like Guyana to survive

it's effectively been only seven months on . . . the gov't still scrambling to find honest, qualified people to take up positions

keep your powder dry . . . the trend is important

we ah watch dem

I am  guilty sometimes too. But how about we all cut down on the quotes on quotes? They are becoming too lengthy to scroll thru.

Mitwah posted:

I am  guilty sometimes too. But how about we all cut down on the quotes on quotes? They are becoming too lengthy to scroll thru.

Jus do it...swish!