Bibi Haniffa posted:

This is where the Cummingsburg Accord becomes garbage and the Constitution rules. The defined roles of each AFC senior member is already null and void.  And since it was just an agreement, I don't think it can be upheld in a court of law.

It is a personal agreement between the PNC and AFC.

It has absolutely no bearing nor relevance to the constitution of Guyana.

PNC and AFC can do as they like by adhering to or diverting from the agreement.

How they end us by disagreements in the Accord is strictly their decisions.

Gilbakka posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Vish, thanks for posting this report.

PPP supporters in GNI Political are making a big mistake in gloating over the AFC's misfortune.

I hope the PPP leadership in Freedom House act wisely and leave a line of communication open with the AFC.

If the AFC decides to withdraw from the coalition and President Granger is forced to call new elections, the PPP will get more votes than APNU but not enough to form a majority government. A pre-election alliance with the AFC will enhance the PPP's chances for victory.

Finally, writing off the AFC as a dead party is injudicious and inadvisable.

Not going to happen with Moses and Ramjattan as leaders. Too much hatred on both sides.

Let me stress: if the PPP wants to avoid being in another minority government and another cycle of gridlock, its leaders will have to set aside personal animosity against Nagamootoo and Ramjattan. Plain and simple.

Utter Nonsense.  Nagamootoo and Ramjattan are as useless to the PPP as they are to the PNC.  The PNC used them as political pawns to snatch power.  Both of them had a longer shelf life with the PPP than the PNC.  The PPP does not need Nagamootoo and Ramjattan.  They need new blood, new ideas, new people, and a fresh commitment to the people of Guyana. 

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Gilbakka posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Vish, thanks for posting this report.

PPP supporters in GNI Political are making a big mistake in gloating over the AFC's misfortune.

I hope the PPP leadership in Freedom House act wisely and leave a line of communication open with the AFC.

If the AFC decides to withdraw from the coalition and President Granger is forced to call new elections, the PPP will get more votes than APNU but not enough to form a majority government. A pre-election alliance with the AFC will enhance the PPP's chances for victory.

Finally, writing off the AFC as a dead party is injudicious and inadvisable.

Not going to happen with Moses and Ramjattan as leaders. Too much hatred on both sides.

Let me stress: if the PPP wants to avoid being in another minority government and another cycle of gridlock, its leaders will have to set aside personal animosity against Nagamootoo and Ramjattan. Plain and simple.

Utter Nonsense.  Nagamootoo and Ramjattan are as useless to the PPP as they are to the PNC.  The PNC used them as political pawns to snatch power.  Both of them had a longer shelf life with the PPP than the PNC.  The PPP does not need Nagamootoo and Ramjattan.  They need new blood, new ideas, new people, and a fresh commitment to the people of Guyana. 

You would be better off focusing on the PPP needs. Jagdeo instructed you to post this nonsense.

Mars posted:

 

All I said is that the current government consists of a coalition between the APNU and the AFC. Your reply is completely irrelevant to what I am saying. 

My response addresses the question as to whether a SINGLE AFC MP, or the AFC party, can end the coalition, thereby forcing an election.

In any case while APNU and the AFC might LEGALLY be separate entities in a coalition, I suspect that the population sees APNU as the whale who swallowed the little AFC, removing any notion of separateness.

The AFC did a valiant job. It threw itself on the PPP sword, ending the 23 years of that regime. But by doing so it ended its life as an independent entity, regardless as to whether it remains so legally or not. 

As of now the AFC is reduced to an entity scrambling for jobs for its boys and girls, and trying to convince APNU about this.

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

 

All I said is that the current government consists of a coalition between the APNU and the AFC. Your reply is completely irrelevant to what I am saying. 

My response addresses the question as to whether a SINGLE AFC MP, or the AFC party, can end the coalition, thereby forcing an election.

In any case while APNU and the AFC might LEGALLY be separate entities in a coalition, I suspect that the population sees APNU as the whale who swallowed the little AFC, removing any notion of separateness.

The AFC did a valiant job. It threw itself on the PPP sword, ending the 23 years of that regime. But by doing so it ended its life as an independent entity, regardless as to whether it remains so legally or not. 

As of now the AFC is reduced to an entity scrambling for jobs for its boys and girls, and trying to convince APNU about this.

Dude, you just don't get it!

DG stated that the government consists of the PNC and the AFC. I corrected DG by informing him that the coalition was formed between APNU and the AFC. Again, your reply has absolutely no relevance to what I was addressing. Go back and follow what I was saying.

Mitwah posted:

 

You would be better off focusing on the PPP needs. Jagdeo instructed you to post this nonsense.

Correct.  The LGE revealed that all THREE major parties are in deep crisis.  The PPP losing ground outside of its "East Indian support base", which its boasts that it consolidated.

APNU which saw even LOWER turn out than occurred in PPP strongholds, pointing out that its "support" base feel used, and deplore an emerging PPP behavior.  There is increasing evidence that the Indo elite might be corrupting APNU, as they did the PPP, as these hungry belly old men, needs a "raise".

As to the AFC.  Well they never had a base of its own.  Their support was from people disgruntled with the two major parties. Now that it has lost its independence, who knows who sees them as a credible alternative.  Their fate will rise or fade with that of APNU.

Mars posted:

 

DG stated that the government consists of the PNC and the AFC.

The discussion arose because people want to know whether an AFC MP can bring down the coalition, given that MPs aren't independent entities as they are in countries where they DIRECTLY represent a constituency.

You still haven't answered that question!

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

 

DG stated that the government consists of the PNC and the AFC.

The discussion arose because people want to know whether an AFC MP can bring down the coalition, given that MPs aren't independent entities as they are in countries where they DIRECTLY represent a constituency.

You still haven't answered that question!

I am speaking about something else entirely different to what you were discussing. I didn't address you or that part of the discussion. If you're going to reply to me, at least read what I am saying and reply appropriately.

Mars posted:

 

I am speaking about something else entirely different to what you were discussing. I .

No you are not, because you STILL have NOT addressed whether an AFC MP can force a motion of no confidence.  THAT is what DG was responding to!

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

 

I am speaking about something else entirely different to what you were discussing. I .

No you are not, because you STILL have NOT addressed whether an AFC MP can force a motion of no confidence.  THAT is what DG was responding to!

Damn, you head prappah hard sometimes and you're so bloody pig headed that it retards your ability to think logically.

I was not talking to you or the subject that you were discussing. I responded specifically to DG's statement that PNC and AFC are the government. I corrected him by saying that APNU and the AFC are the government. Go and read properly and understand what I saying before you go off on a tangent.

Here, read what my post stated below. Respond appropriately or shut the hell up.

Demerara_Guy posted:

 

However, PNC and AFC as a unit currently forms the government.

 

Incorrect. The current government consists of a coalition formed between APNU and the AFC.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

 Anyone remembers how guys like Ranji Chandisingh and Vincent Teekah crossed the floor? 

Between 1968 and 1973 a number of PPP parliamentarians crossed the floor. Chandisingh and Teekah did so in 1975 and they were the last PPP parliamentary deserters. Why? It was part of a "horse-trading" deal between Burnham and Jagan. Burnham wanted the PPP's cooperation on some critical issues, particularly increasing US hostility against the PNC regime. Jagan asked Burnham to outlaw floor crossing and Burnham agreed and enshrined it in the 1980 Constitution. Of course, by rigging the 1980 election and giving himself two-thirds majority, Burnham did not need any PPP parliamentarian. So, the Constitution prohibits floor crossing.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Kari posted:

Let's say for Parliamentary purposes that the Party controls Members of the House. That means the AFC in the coalition is impotent to change the Parliamentary makeup so that the ruling party is a minority party. However, let's say just the PPP/C brings a vote of no confidence  to a vote and one member of the coalition (APNU - PNC, WPA, etc - or AFC who's been paid off handsomely and good things await that person) at the last minute votes for the opposition's, motion and it passes. then like Ramotar, Granger has up to 6 months to dissolve Parliament and call fresh elections - no??!!

I believe Kari is correct here. What I am also understanding is once you are voted into government with a party you cannot change political parties before elections?  Anyone remembers how guys like Ranji Chandisingh and Vincent Teekah crossed the floor? 

At that time it was interpreted that such changes can occur among political parties.

In particular, when Trotman and others left their respective political parties to especially join the AFC, there were revisions to the constitution.

That change in legislation was very specific and clear that political parties win their respective seats and then each political party then determines its members.

Hence, each political entity in parliament has the absolute power to present and recall MPs.

Mars posted:

 

Damn, you head prappah hard sometimes and you're so bloody pig headed that it retards your ability to think logically.

 

Incorrect. The current government consists of a coalition formed between APNU and the AFC.

I wasn't aware that I had to ask your permission to post. In fact I was in this discussion BEFORE you made your point.

You are still to address the point as to whether an AFC MP can bring down the coalition, by supporting a PPP MONC!  THAT is the relevant point!

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

 

Damn, you head prappah hard sometimes and you're so bloody pig headed that it retards your ability to think logically.

 

Incorrect. The current government consists of a coalition formed between APNU and the AFC.

I wasn't aware that I had to ask your permission to post. In fact I was in this discussion BEFORE you made your point.

You are still to address the point as to whether an AFC MP can bring down the coalition, by supporting a PPP MONC!  THAT is the relevant point!

No, you don't have to ask my permission to post but if you're going to answer what I wrote, at least write something that relates to my post and not something totally irrelevant. I don't have to address anything. I wasn't talking to you and what I was talking about was not part of your discussion.

This is obvious to everyone else except you. There are times when you can admit that you are wrong and just move on. 

Now once again slowly and maybe you'll get it his time. If you feel the need to address my post then make it something relevant to what I said. No sense in starting an argument with me which has no bearing on what I wrote.

caribny posted:

Gilbakka posted:

 

Let me stress: if the PPP wants to avoid being in another minority government and another cycle of gridlock, its leaders will have to set aside personal animosity against Nagamootoo and Ramjattan. Plain and simple.

What support does the AFC really have. Like heroes they threw themselves on the PPP sword and helped to vanquish them. They sacrificed themselves for the greater good.

It might be better if they simply form alliances with the various independent groups, and become a real third force, aiming to wean Guyanese off of the sick politics of the past 60 years!

Carib wants the PNC/APNU to be for black people only. BLACK KKK.

skeldon_man posted:

 

Carib wants the PNC/APNU to be for black people only. BLACK KKK.

no klown, he has been consistent in advocating for a 3rd force that could break the back of race politics in GY

unfortunately, without major constitutional reform, that kind of politics will only serve up a PPP/jagdeoite menu for another generation

[imperfect] coalition politics today will hopefully get us over that hump within most of our lifetimes

we've already had LGE, and it's barely been 10 months

Mars posted:

 

No, you don't have to ask my permission to post but if you're going to answer what I wrote, at least write something that relates to my post and not something totally irrelevant..

I was discussing the key topic on the thread.

Can an AFC MP bring down the coalition gov't by joining with a PPP inspired MONC.  That was being discussed.  That is what DG is referring to, and that is what you are yet to respond to.

So let me make it easy for you. Does APNU and AFC have the same list for MPs.  NO!  Does this mean that an AFC MP can bring down the coalition, by joining the PPP in an MONC. We don't know, so why don't you focus on that?

skeldon_man posted:

 

Carib wants the PNC/APNU to be for black people only. BLACK KKK.

Brown bai KKK, I know that no ethnic group can dominate Guyana politically.

You, and your hero think that the PPP can "consolidate the East Indian support base" to dominate Guyana. 

No you cannot.

1.  The East Indian population is declining, and might be just over 40% of the voting population by 2020.

2. As the embarrassing performance of the PPP in G/town shows, not every Indian is voting PPP either.  From 8 city councilors, to a mere 2, clearly G/town Indians are shifting their allegiances.

So continue to dream about "ahbe pan tap".  Non Indians, and "coolie hating neemakaram, Congo Lovers" aren't going to allow that!

redux posted:

 

[imperfect] coalition politics today will hopefully get us over that hump within most of our lifetimes

 

What might get Guyana over the hump will be the various independent groups which emerged in PNC strongholds.  They won 3 seats in G/town, will run Kwakwani, maybe won a few seats elsewhere.

Let us hope that those who succeeded perform well, and deliver.  Let us hope that those who didn't hang in there.

If these groups remain active the APNU AFC will learn that their growing PPP type of arrogance and corruption will not be tolerate, and they will up their game. 

If the coalition doesn't they might well lose in 2020, as people in their strongholds will stay home.  Already they think that the coalition is no better than the PPP, and no more concerned about ordinary blacks.

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

 

No, you don't have to ask my permission to post but if you're going to answer what I wrote, at least write something that relates to my post and not something totally irrelevant..

I was discussing the key topic on the thread.

Can an AFC MP bring down the coalition gov't by joining with a PPP inspired MONC.  That was being discussed.  That is what DG is referring to, and that is what you are yet to respond to.

So let me make it easy for you. Does APNU and AFC have the same list for MPs.  NO!  Does this mean that an AFC MP can bring down the coalition, by joining the PPP in an MONC. We don't know, so why don't you focus on that?

I don't give a shit what you were discussing and I didn't address you. I was talking about something completely different so if you reply to my post, make it relevant to what I wrote. Otherwise, carry on with your discussion and leave me alone. It's as simple as that. 

This is what DG said and this is my reply, dimwit. It had nothing to do with what you were saying.

Demerara_Guy posted:

 

However, PNC and AFC as a unit currently forms the government.

 

Incorrect. The current government consists of a coalition formed between APNU and the AFC.

caribny posted:

redux posted:

 

[imperfect] coalition politics today will hopefully get us over that hump within most of our lifetimes

What might get Guyana over the hump will be the various independent groups which emerged in PNC strongholds.  They won 3 seats in G/town, will run Kwakwani, maybe won a few seats elsewhere.

Let us hope that those who succeeded perform well, and deliver.  Let us hope that those who didn't hang in there.

If these groups remain active the APNU AFC will learn that their growing PPP type of arrogance and corruption will not be tolerate, and they will up their game. 

If the coalition doesn't they might well lose in 2020, as people in their strongholds will stay home.  Already they think that the coalition is no better than the PPP, and no more concerned about ordinary blacks.

well, we wouldn't even be here if not for the "coalition" . . . right?

Mars posted:

 

I don't give a shit what you were discussing

To be frank I don't care what you THINK that you were discussing.

MY interest is whether an AFC MP can bring down the coalition by cooperating with the PPP.  Clearly you don't have a clue.

redux posted:

.

well, we wouldn't even be here if not for the "coalition" . . . right?

Well if APNU AFC turns out to be as bad as the PPP was, then it will not matter, would it?

caribny posted:

redux posted:

.

well, we wouldn't even be here if not for the "coalition" . . . right?

Well if APNU AFC turns out to be as bad as the PPP was, then it will not matter, would it?

that's a non sequitur . . . look it up

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

 

I don't give a shit what you were discussing

To be frank I don't care what you THINK that you were discussing.

MY interest is whether an AFC MP can bring down the coalition by cooperating with the PPP.  Clearly you don't have a clue.

Clearly, you are the one who's lost and you're too foolish to realize it. I wasn't talking to you and I wasn't a part of your discussion about AFC MP's. I made a post related specifically to the parties which compose the current government and you replied to my post with something totally irrelevant to what I was saying. Are you such a dummy that you still don't understand that even though I've explained it to you many times?  

Mars posted:

 

Still ranting?  Good night.  You are beginning to sound like Nehru now!

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

 

Still ranting?  Good night.  You are beginning to sound like Nehru now!

I'm simply replying to the bullshit that you're trying to run by me. Unfortunately, I'm not the run of the mill clown you're accustomed to bullying and I know how to defend myself when I'm right.

Mars posted:

I know how to defend myself when I'm right.

No you are behaving like Nehru. Good night.

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

I know how to defend myself when I'm right.

No you are behaving like Nehru. Good night.

Mars was making a narrow point that APNU is actually distinct from PNC

Caribny, you are behaving like a deranged idiot

Mitwah posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Good point.  They can swing that vote if they so choose.  The point is though, neither the PNC nor the PPP trust these guys anymore so they will not work with them going forward.  At the current rate of dissent among the AFC, it is only a matter of time before the PPP snatch that Parliamentary vote away and call new elections.

Good point. I was wondering how long before this love affair fails. "Wen dem guh bruk dem love".

AFC still has the support of Indo Business class. .....

Where, in Toronto?   Maybe, not in Queens, and definitely not in Guyana!1

redux posted:

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

I know how to defend myself when I'm right.

No you are behaving like Nehru. Good night.

Mars was making a narrow point that APNU is actually distinct from PNC

Caribny, you are behaving like a deranged idiot

You mean like 1%??  Guy, stop thinking people stupid,you only making a fool of yourself!!

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

I know how to defend myself when I'm right.

No you are behaving like Nehru. Good night.

Haha. That's what you resort to when you've been made to look like a dimwit. You could have walked away a long time ago and just admit that you're wrong but you prefer to be the village mule plowing on stubbornly. Sorry, you're not gonna get away with your bullshit when you sling it my way. 

I think that Mits missed badly on his statement. I spoke with a businessman from Guyana who supported the AFC during the last election and is now expressing remorse and regret for making a blunder.

Business is bad, real bad for him since the AFC/PNC took over.

I cannot post the words that he used to describe this clueless administration.

baseman posted:

redux posted:

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

I know how to defend myself when I'm right.

No you are behaving like Nehru. Good night.

Mars was making a narrow point that APNU is actually distinct from PNC

Caribny, you are behaving like a deranged idiot

You mean like 1%??  Guy, stop thinking people stupid,you only making a fool of yourself!!

too high concept for u

run along

caribny posted:

redux posted:

 

[imperfect] coalition politics today will hopefully get us over that hump within most of our lifetimes

 

What might get Guyana over the hump will be the various independent groups which emerged in PNC strongholds.  They won 3 seats in G/town, will run Kwakwani, maybe won a few seats elsewhere.

Let us hope that those who succeeded perform well, and deliver.  Let us hope that those who didn't hang in there.

If these groups remain active the APNU AFC will learn that their growing PPP type of arrogance and corruption will not be tolerate, and they will up their game. 

If the coalition doesn't they might well lose in 2020, as people in their strongholds will stay home.  Already they think that the coalition is no better than the PPP, and no more concerned about ordinary blacks.

Caribj, why is your politics all about "race" and not about "Guyanese!

redux posted:

caribny posted:

Mars posted:

I know how to defend myself when I'm right.

No you are behaving like Nehru. Good night.

Mars was making a narrow point that APNU is actually distinct from PNC

Caribny, you are behaving like a deranged idiot

He's too pig headed to admit that he's wrong. Let him carry on banging his head into the wall.

Carib is a racist Black Nationalist.

baseman posted:

Caribj, why is your politics all about "race" and not about "Guyanese!

baseman, you are a crude, on-the-record, anti-Black racist

just stop it

baseman posted:

caribny posted:

redux posted:

 

[imperfect] coalition politics today will hopefully get us over that hump within most of our lifetimes

 

What might get Guyana over the hump will be the various independent groups which emerged in PNC strongholds.  They won 3 seats in G/town, will run Kwakwani, maybe won a few seats elsewhere.

Let us hope that those who succeeded perform well, and deliver.  Let us hope that those who didn't hang in there.

If these groups remain active the APNU AFC will learn that their growing PPP type of arrogance and corruption will not be tolerate, and they will up their game. 

If the coalition doesn't they might well lose in 2020, as people in their strongholds will stay home.  Already they think that the coalition is no better than the PPP, and no more concerned about ordinary blacks.

Caribj, why is your politics all about "race" and not about "Guyanese!

Being Guyanese seems to be about race, but when mentioned by carib yall say is bad but when ayou rass bring race into everything, it aright nuh baie?