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FM
Former Member

AFC silent on accusations of race-baiting by Trotman

-Ramjattan refused to comment; “write what you want”- Patterson
The leadership of the Alliance For Change (AFC), one of the political parties in the coalition government is mum as accusations of race baiting by its co-founder and Minister of Natural Resources Raphael Trotman surfaced.
Political commentator and ardent supporter of the AFC Freddie Kissoon accused Trotman of allegedly playing the race card during a public meeting in Bartica, Region Seven (Cuyuni-Mazaruni), during the lead-up to just-concluded Local Government Elections.

President David Granger

President David Granger

Recording    

 Kissoon alleges he is in possession of a tape with Trotman appealing to race while campaigning in Region 7.
According to Kissoon, Trotman’s speech was “hate-filled” and it “manifested the cruelties and sadism of old political culture.”Kissoon expressed that Trotman “does not belong to the future of politics in this tragic land and that goose bumps emerged on my body when Trotman went into his demagogic rage of ethnic loyalty.” Kissoon called on AFC to ensure disciplinary actions are taken against Trotman. Kissoon said he submitted a copy of the tape to the party but when contacted on Saturday, AFC leader Khemraj Ramjattan refused to comment on the matter.   “I don’t do any interviews with >>>Guyana Times,<<<” Ramjattan declared, and hung up his mobile phone. Also contacted was AFC general secretary and Public Infrastructure Minister David Patterson who also refused to comment on the matter stating, “no comment, you could write what you like.”Meanwhile political commentator and former government minister Dr Henry Jeffery when asked his opinion on the issue, said he would first like to receive a transcript of the tape before commenting.However he stated that, “if what he (Kissoon) said the tape said and it’s correct, it is somewhat damning.”

Prodigal son returns
Kissoon noted too that in the tape, which was made available by a senior member of the Team Legacy political party, Trotman indicated that he has rejoined the People’s National Congress Reform (PNCR).“He openly told the crowds that although he was a part of the AFC, he never left the struggle and that the Prodigal Son has returned,” Kissoon highlighted. He added that Trotman said that a decade ago while he was launching the AFC with Ramjattan, Trotman evidently had a meeting in Nassau, The Bahamas with David Granger (now President), where they hatched a plan to reinstall the People’s National Congress (PNC) in office by ousting the People’s Progressive Party/Civic (PPP/C).“He then told the crowd that 10 years ago, he and David Granger met in Nassau (The Bahamas) and Granger laid out a plan for Guyana. On the day in 2015 when the election results were made known, Trotman indicated that Mr Granger called him and said to him, ‘Raphael, this is Nassau.’

Natural Resources Minister Raphael Trotman

Natural Resources Minister Raphael Trotman

AFC Executive Member Khemraj Ramjattan

AFC Executive Member Khemraj Ramjattan

Trotman left the crowds in suspension because he thinks that it is President Granger that should be the first one to reveal what the two of them dialogued on 10 years ago in The Bahamas.
“I don’t have a clue what it is but whatever it is, I would suggest you listen to the tape, and when you hear Raphael Trotman speaking at that Bartica LGE public meeting, then what was spoken and planned in The Bahamas 10 years ago has to be frightening, because Trotman doesn’t come across as a powerful politician that will shape a progressive future for Guyana,” Kissoon added.  Team Legacy chairman Ewart Williams when contacted, distanced his party from the recording and the views expressed by Kissoon.

According to Williams, whoever provided Kissoon with the copy of the tape clearly did so in his own personal capacity and not on behalf of Team Legacy.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Prashad posted:

I listened to the speach last night it was spoken like a true hardcore APNU member. If these Indians in the Afc think there is anything in common they are badly mistaken.

 

Any info where i can listen to it Prash.

Django
Django posted:
Prashad posted:

I listened to the speach last night it was spoken like a true hardcore APNU member. If these Indians in the Afc think there is anything in common they are badly mistaken.

 

Any info where i can listen to it Prash.

Mars

Trotman indicated that he has rejoined the People’s National Congress Reform (PNCR).“He openly told the crowds that although he was a part of the AFC, he never left the struggle and that the Prodigal Son has returned,” Kissoon highlighted. He added that Trotman said that a decade ago while he was launching the AFC with Ramjattan, Trotman evidently had a meeting in Nassau, The Bahamas with David Granger (now President), where they hatched a plan to reinstall the People’s National Congress (PNC) in office by ousting the People’s Progressive Party/Civic (PPP/C).“He then told the crowd that 10 years ago, he and David Granger met in Nassau (The Bahamas) and Granger laid out a plan for Guyana. On the day in 2015 when the election results were made known, Trotman indicated that Mr Granger called him and said to him, ‘Raphael, this is Nassau.’

 WHAT A TRAITOR, A PNC IS ALWAYS A PNC, TROTMAN USED THE COOLIE IN THE AFC TO PUT THE PNC IN GOVERNMENT. THE AFC IS DEAD.

K
Prashad posted:

I listened to the speach last night it was spoken like a true hardcore APNU member. If these Indians in the Afc think there is anything in common they are badly mistaken.

 

Yes, he didn't demand that Africans grovel on their knees and beg forgiveness from Indians.

Based on comments by Freddie K these statements were far less racist than the shrill screams of Jagdeo, which could well have come from the mouth of David Duke.

Can you imagine the GOP boasting that it "consolidated the white vote"?  Commentators might say this, but no major US politician will be so stark in racial EXCLUSION.

FM

Both Rohee and Jagdeo were FOOLS to make the statement they made BUT that is no excuse for Trotty to do so. In fact, we all knew Trotty played Uncle Tom and Devany like the FOOLS they ARE!!!!  He planned with Granger in Nassau to get the 2 FOOLS to help them win so that the PNC can DOMINATE the Country again. Four more years of the 1980, Al YUh deal with it!!!!

Nehru
Mars posted:
Django posted:
Prashad posted:

I listened to the speach last night it was spoken like a true hardcore APNU member. If these Indians in the Afc think there is anything in common they are badly mistaken.

 

Any info where i can listen to it Prash.

I listened to this and I do not see it the way portrayed by Freddie. I guess it always comes down to perspective, the lens you choose to wear. As they say, you can get as many differing opinions on an utterance as there are persons in a room. 

 

FM

Bet you the brown bai KKK cannot outline what Trotman said that was racist.

He pointed out a FACT.  Independent groups were running in APNU strongholds.  NONE were running in PPP strongholds.

We can debate the reasons for this, but one will expect that any party would want to protect its turf. 

Indeed the brown bai KKK were boasting and screaming that the independents would split the vote in G/town, allowing the PPP to win.  Well that did NOT happen!

Willing to bet that the evidence that the brown bai KKK will cite is that Trotman went back to the PNC. Well why the shock, when I stated BEFORE the election, that Trotman was not going to let Moses dictate the terms of the AFC engagement with the coalition.

BTW he did NOT say that he was going back to the PNC.  He said that he was ANTI PPP.

FM
susan posted:
Mars posted:
Django posted:
Prashad posted:

I listened to the speach last night it was spoken like a true hardcore APNU member. If these Indians in the Afc think there is anything in common they are badly mistaken.

 

Any info where i can listen to it Prash.

I listened to this and I do not see it the way portrayed by Freddie. I guess it always comes down to perspective, the lens you choose to wear. As they say, you can get as many differing opinions on an utterance as there are persons in a room. 

 

Just don't see what is racist about this?

APNU AFC is entitled to defend its turf against the independents, and in a town like Bartica, part of this will be to warn that voting for independents can split the vote, allowing a PPP victory.

In fact this is what the PPP was hoping for, which is why their focus was on the "coolie people party" vote, with the notion that the blacks will split their vote, so weaken themselves.

The brown bai KKK can chatter amongst themselves about why no independent groups arose in PPP strongholds.

The ONLY person who made an EXPLICIT racial comment was Jagdeo, who boasted that the PPP had "consolidated the East Indian support base".

FM
caribny posted:

Bet you the brown bai KKK cannot outline what Trotman said that was racist.

He pointed out a FACT.  Independent groups were running in APNU strongholds.  NONE were running in PPP strongholds.

We can debate the reasons for this, but one will expect that any party would want to protect its turf. 

Indeed the brown bai KKK were boasting and screaming that the independents would split the vote in G/town, allowing the PPP to win.  Well that did NOT happen!

Willing to bet that the evidence that the brown bai KKK will cite is that Trotman went back to the PNC. Well why the shock, when I stated BEFORE the election, that Trotman was not going to let Moses dictate the terms of the AFC engagement with the coalition.

BTW he did NOT say that he was going back to the PNC.  He said that he was ANTI PPP.

Right. He DID NOT say he was back with the PNC. 

And I really listened carefully for the alleged race baiting or what ever they call it here. I have known Raphael for 30 years and wanted to hear for myself if he was saying what they allege. And I see nothing racist, race baiting nor race consolidating. He talked about the community and the coalition and the PPP. No race anything. 

Always amazes me that people only see and hear what they want to. 

 

FM
susan posted:
 

Always amazes me that people only see and hear what they want to. 

 

Freddie hallucinating.  Maybe the PPP is offering him some soup, in exchange for not having fecal matter thrown at him.

FM
seignet posted:

Yuh duz brain up historical events to suit ur racist demeanor.

This is the shrill, hysterical and imbecilic response that I expected from a brown bal KKK. Lacking the brains to even cite evidence to back their assertions of racism.

FM

Much ado about nothing. There is no racism here. It is a rallying the troops speech. I can pick a few bones with the trajectory...ie trust Granger as father...or have faith, or be patient without staying for how long etc but this is an innocuous speech.

FM
Nehru posted:

Both Rohee and Jagdeo were FOOLS to make the statement they made BUT that is no excuse for Trotty to do so. In fact, we all knew Trotty played Uncle Tom and Devany like the FOOLS they ARE!!!!  He planned with Granger in Nassau to get the 2 FOOLS to help them win so that the PNC can DOMINATE the Country again. Four more years of the 1980, Al YUh deal with it!!!!

I would agree with Nehru of a plan  to mislead Naga and Rumjat.  

Of the two namakaram  - one is a drunkard and the other would sell his mother. They don't give a Damm 

FM
susan posted:
caribny posted:

Bet you the brown bai KKK cannot outline what Trotman said that was racist.

He pointed out a FACT.  Independent groups were running in APNU strongholds.  NONE were running in PPP strongholds.

We can debate the reasons for this, but one will expect that any party would want to protect its turf. 

Indeed the brown bai KKK were boasting and screaming that the independents would split the vote in G/town, allowing the PPP to win.  Well that did NOT happen!

Willing to bet that the evidence that the brown bai KKK will cite is that Trotman went back to the PNC. Well why the shock, when I stated BEFORE the election, that Trotman was not going to let Moses dictate the terms of the AFC engagement with the coalition.

BTW he did NOT say that he was going back to the PNC.  He said that he was ANTI PPP.

Right. He DID NOT say he was back with the PNC. 

And I really listened carefully for the alleged race baiting or what ever they call it here. I have known Raphael for 30 years and wanted to hear for myself if he was saying what they allege. And I see nothing racist, race baiting nor race consolidating. He talked about the community and the coalition and the PPP. No race anything. 

Always amazes me that people only see and hear what they want to. 

 

Thank you Django for requesting the recording and thank you Mars for posting it. 

FM

ANYONE REMEMBER THIS...

Could the meeting in Bahamas be the reason for stepping down and NOT health concern. 

THE Alliance For Change (AFC) has been hurt by the decision of its Leader, Mr. Raphael Trotman, to turn down nomination as the running mate for the small party’s Presidential candidate, Mr. Khemraj Ramjattan, at next year’s general elections, members said yesterday.

AFC co-founder, Ms. Sheila Holder was selected as the Prime Ministerial candidate after Trotman turned down nomination on the grounds of health and personal reasons.
Party members said they were shocked at Trotman’s refusal to be Ramjattan’s running mate, deepening speculation that the rift between the two men that surfaced earlier this year still exists.
The AFC special national convention at the Ocean View Convention Centre, Liliendaal, East Coast Demerara, was called to select candidates for the two top posts for next year’s polls.
Sources said delegates were expecting a Ramjattan-Trotman ticket and several tried in vain to get Trotman to change his stand after he declined running with Ramjattan.
However, one insider suggested that by standing down, Trotman would not be blamed when the AFC does poorly at the 2011 elections under the Ramjattan/Holder ticket, paving the way for his resurgence in 2016 .
The AFC was engulfed by a leadership crisis for several months earlier this year with separate groups backing Trotman and Ramjattan as Presidential candidates after the party’s top brass failed to honour a rotation agreement that would have seen Ramjattan take over as AFC leader

FM

A sincere apology to Raphael Trotman

April 6, 2016 | By | Filed Under Features / Columnists, Freddie Kissoon 

Last Saturday, my column, captioned, “What the Raphael Trotman tape revealed,” looked at one of the speeches Mr. Trotman delivered at a public meeting in Bartica during the local government elections. In that article I concentrated on certain aspects of Mr. Trotman’s output and came to certain conclusions. Those conclusions essentially argued that Mr. Trotman had engaged in hate-filled advocacy and a call for ethnic loyalty. After criticism received rejecting the contentions of the column, I am in full agreement that my analysis was misplaced, misdirected and unfair to Mr. Trotman.
I believe the best of intentions can go astray at times. I think humans are prone to errors and misjudgements. This column did a disservice to Mr. Trotman and the people of Bartica, especially those who were present at the meeting, and for that, I offer them all an unreserved and unqualified apology.
I believe an apology is a very important process humans must adopt if civilization is to remain intact. I would like Mr. Trotman to know that I agreed with the criticism I have received about the misanalysis in the column. I agree in my own mind that I made a terrible error.
I want Mr. Trotman to know that there was never any intention to damage his career. I would never want to do that.  Some of Mr. Trotman’s close friends are friends of mine. I campaigned heavily for Mr. Trotman’s party in the last general elections.  I would not in any way want to see the weakening of the Guyana Government and its Ministers, because I think this entire country knows I worked to have such a government in place, and the entire country knows I would not want the PPP back in government.
I have done thousands and thousands of columns in a long career spanning twenty-seven years. Mistakes are bound to be made. I owe it to my readers and Mr. Trotman to explain where I believe I went wrong. It had to do with Mr. Trotman’s exhortation to Barticians to vote for APNU-AFC because Bartica is an APNU-AFC constituency. I juxtaposed that with Mr. Trotman’s question to the audience, which asked if they see other parties competing against the PPP in the PPP’s areas in the LGE.
The weakness in that juxtaposition is that I sought to elevate party competition to the call to vote race. This is where I believe the column fell down. This is where I believe my analysis went in the wrong direction.
I want Mr. Trotman to know that I have never in any column before attributed any racially-oriented attitude to him. I honestly feel that Mr. Trotman is not a racially-thinking person. I believe that too of all the leaders in the AFC. I have written two columns devoted entirely to Mr. Granger, and I made the unambiguous acknowledgement that Mr. Granger is a decent, anti-racist, all-embracing nationalist. I would put Mr. Trotman in the same category.
I hereby withdraw the obvious implication and correlation in the juxtaposition of those two statements.  I am looking at the column as I write. I have read it five times. I conclude I was wrong in assignment of race thought to Mr. Trotman. It is clear to me now, in a more psychologically calm state of mind, that the speech was merely urging people to vote for Mr. Trotman’s party and no other party.
Once again, I apologize for the placement of anything contrary in the column. I am deeply moved at the distress I have caused and that has obviously been experienced by Mr. Trotman, and as someone who has often been maligned with deliberate intentions, I could understand Mr. Trotman’s chagrin at the column.  I would like to repeat that in the world of social analysis you are bound to fall down. I think with few exceptions, columnists do get it wrong, and I undoubtedly got it wrong this time.  I am happy to express my regrets to Mr. Trotman, because I think it is the decent thing to do. I do have my faults, but I would never refuse to say sorry when I am wrong.
I can tell Mr. Trotman that I do feel contrite, because I know he was hurt by the article. I think any Minister of Government would be, if a widely read opinion-maker makes a damning accusation. I really don’t know what more to say but to admit that it is human to err. And one has to acknowledge where one went wrong. I would extend an invitation to Mr. Trotman for us to meet and have a gentleman’s handshake.
I will close with a tiny informality. In all the years I have known and talked with Mr. Trotman, I have called him Raphael.   Let me say to him, “sorry, Raphael.”

Mitwah
caribny posted:
seignet posted:

Yuh duz brain up historical events to suit ur racist demeanor.

This is the shrill, hysterical and imbecilic response that I expected from a brown bal KKK. Lacking the brains to even cite evidence to back their assertions of racism.

Your are a chronic racist. I will have to come up with a special name for you. Maybe a Cousin to Baal, will have to do for now.

Simply put, "yuh razz duz lie about coolie ppl ad dem racism."

Ask an Indian why he doan like black people, he draw from his personal experiences. As a Black man why he doan like Coollie ppl, he will conjure up all kinds of excuse fuh dem hatred.

Gwan from yah, blasted cooolie hater.

S
ian posted:

ANYONE REMEMBER THIS...

Could the meeting in Bahamas be the reason for stepping down and NOT health concern. 

THE Alliance For Change (AFC) has been hurt by the decision of its Leader, Mr. Raphael Trotman, to turn down nomination as the running mate for the small party’s Presidential candidate, Mr. Khemraj Ramjattan, at next year’s general elections, members said yesterday.

AFC co-founder, Ms. Sheila Holder was selected as the Prime Ministerial candidate after Trotman turned down nomination on the grounds of health and personal reasons.
Party members said they were shocked at Trotman’s refusal to be Ramjattan’s running mate, deepening speculation that the rift between the two men that surfaced earlier this year still exists.
The AFC special national convention at the Ocean View Convention Centre, Liliendaal, East Coast Demerara, was called to select candidates for the two top posts for next year’s polls.
Sources said delegates were expecting a Ramjattan-Trotman ticket and several tried in vain to get Trotman to change his stand after he declined running with Ramjattan.
However, one insider suggested that by standing down, Trotman would not be blamed when the AFC does poorly at the 2011 elections under the Ramjattan/Holder ticket, paving the way for his resurgence in 2016 .
The AFC was engulfed by a leadership crisis for several months earlier this year with separate groups backing Trotman and Ramjattan as Presidential candidates after the party’s top brass failed to honour a rotation agreement that would have seen Ramjattan take over as AFC leader

And what is racist about this?

As I said since last year, the Trotman faction will NOT be used by the Moses faction, to bring back the PPP, should the latter decide that they want to damage the coalition.

FM
seignet posted:
 

Your are a chronic racist.

Brown bai KKK member still cannot say why I am racist. 

This is a man who scream that blacks are lazy, criminal and savage, and threatened to curse blacks to live in poverty and nakedness.

Most will see THAT as racist, but you are so bigoted that you cannot!

FM

Trottman, Granger and the AFC perpetuated a massive fraud on the Guyanese people if he and Granger planned the whole scenario of forming the AFC and using it to split the anti-APNU votes. If Trottman had played a prominent role in the 2011 elections, the APNU votes would have been reduced as previously happened. Moses jumping into the coalition served the interest of Granger and trottman exactly as if they had written the script. I think that both of them are surprised that the PPP was able to hold on to so large a  proportion of their support. 

Granger and trottman are now preparing for dumping the AFC, are now confident that they can win on their own or rig it to win and thereby retain power after 2020 so Trottman can now show his cards, glow in the adoration of those who recognize what he was part of, and continue to degrade the AFC by showing how intellectually inferior and politically inept they are.

granger is silent in this part of the campaign speech. Why is the media not demanding a response from him as to what transpired during the meeting.

Z

Planning to remove the corrupt PPP via the plebiscite was no crime.  In any event, one should not reify speculation with a narrative about conspiracy theories and on account of that go all bat-shi.t.  Granger has no obligation to answer the suspicions of any. It is like asking did you beat your wife yesterday. Answering it affirms a habit of brutality.  Asking the man to address ones speculation is pure nonsense.

FM
Zed posted:

.. If Trottman had played a prominent role in the 2011 elections, ..

Trotman didn't want Ramjattan to be the presidential candidate as he claimed that Ramjattan couldn't get votes. This based on his extremely poor performance in 2006.  This despite the rotational principle that the AFC had agreed to where it would have been Ramjattan's term.

When Ramjattan was selected Trotman disappeared, and only began to campaign for the AFC at the last minute., when it became obvious that their inattention to the black vote was resulting in mass defection back to APNU.   I was quite vocal about this in the summer of 2011, and even Gerhard (who used to post on GNI then) responded to this!

So quit your nonsense.  The PPP had to go and any LEGAL means of removing them was perfectly in order.

You seem quite simple when you forget that there were many cross racial alliances to remove the equally odious PNC.   If some one claimed that the WPA and others were used to split the black vote I can only wonder what your reaction would have been.

 

FM
skeldon_man posted:

Trotman was never an AFC member. He was a PNC spy. He wanted to be the presidential candidate on the AFC..not rotating.

I can only wonder if you know how stupid this post of yours is. If Trotman was a PNC spy, he would have willingly conceded that Ramjattan should have been the 2011 candidate, and not leaving in a huff.

What the AFC did in 2006 was to split the non Indian vote. The PPP kept its "East Indian support base", that it thinks is all that it needs. 

FM
caribny posted:
skeldon_man posted:

Trotman was never an AFC member. He was a PNC spy. He wanted to be the presidential candidate on the AFC..not rotating.

I can only wonder if you know how stupid this post of yours is. If Trotman was a PNC spy, he would have willingly conceded that Ramjattan should have been the 2011 candidate, and not leaving in a huff.

What the AFC did in 2006 was to split the non Indian vote. The PPP kept its "East Indian support base", that it thinks is all that it needs. 

In so many words Trotman said he never left the PNC..prodigal son has returned. Think about it.

FM
Stormborn posted:

Planning to remove the corrupt PPP via the plebiscite was no crime.  In any event, one should not reify speculation with a narrative about conspiracy theories and on account of that go all bat-shi.t.  Granger has no obligation to answer the suspicions of any. It is like asking did you beat your wife yesterday. Answering it affirms a habit of brutality.  Asking the man to address ones speculation is pure nonsense.

I must be a little off today because you are not making sense to me. Trottman confirmed that a meeting took place and that there was a connection between whar was discussed at the meeting and the election victory of the coalition. This is in the public interest and is open to questions and speculation. If the president wants to stop the speculations, then he must address it.

Z
caribny posted:
Zed posted:

.. If Trottman had played a prominent role in the 2011 elections, ..

Trotman didn't want Ramjattan to be the presidential candidate as he claimed that Ramjattan couldn't get votes. This based on his extremely poor performance in 2006.  This despite the rotational principle that the AFC had agreed to where it would have been Ramjattan's term.

When Ramjattan was selected Trotman disappeared, and only began to campaign for the AFC at the last minute., when it became obvious that their inattention to the black vote was resulting in mass defection back to APNU.   I was quite vocal about this in the summer of 2011, and even Gerhard (who used to post on GNI then) responded to this!

So quit your nonsense.  The PPP had to go and any LEGAL means of removing them was perfectly in order.

You seem quite simple when you forget that there were many cross racial alliances to remove the equally odious PNC.   If some one claimed that the WPA and others were used to split the black vote I can only wonder what your reaction would have been.

 

I agree that there cross racial alliances to oust the pnc. In addition, if I remember correctly, some elements within the PNC argued that groups such as the WPA were being used to split the PNC votes. I guess you will still need to wonder what my reaction was. 

My main concern was that if there was a deal between granger and trottman, why were the thousands who voted for the AFC and then the AFC/APNU coalition not made aware of such an arrangement similarly as done with the Cummingsburgh Accord. (Trottman is a leading member if the AFC) It is my view that the more informed voters are, the better will be their choices. 

 

Z
Zed posted:
Stormborn posted:

Planning to remove the corrupt PPP via the plebiscite was no crime.  In any event, one should not reify speculation with a narrative about conspiracy theories and on account of that go all bat-shi.t.  Granger has no obligation to answer the suspicions of any. It is like asking did you beat your wife yesterday. Answering it affirms a habit of brutality.  Asking the man to address ones speculation is pure nonsense.

I must be a little off today because you are not making sense to me. Trottman confirmed that a meeting took place and that there was a connection between whar was discussed at the meeting and the election victory of the coalition. This is in the public interest and is open to questions and speculation. If the president wants to stop the speculations, then he must address it.

Why should people not meet or is the meeting of black people to plan for to wrest power from a corrupt regime a terrible thing? The PPP has turn the path to odious government after Cheddi died. Anyone meeting to plan a strategy for their removal was doing the nation a good turn. I turned away from the PPP in that period. They were just plainly irrefutably awful.

The president does not have to stop idle minds from wandering into the macabre. If a plan was hatched there for a long term strategy of winning power t hen kudos to them. It worked. There was nothing terrible done in removing the PPP. It was a good thing.

It will be a better thing if these people are able to rehabilitate a toxic crime ridden state with an embedded drug culture and a society prone to give and receive bribes as easy as one in a service setting give a tip.  That is PPP culture that was nurtured as practice and fostered as opportunity for graft.

I make perfect sense if you were not probing for some nefarious deed done to remove your sanctified PPP.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

"My sanctified PPP"? You are making broad statements without any proof of my political leanings. Unlike you, I have never expressed my support for any political party, that i will not have to rue that expression and or support. Well at least, you bear some of the blame for supporting the PPP. Many who criticized and who still criticize the PPP say that corruption existed even under the jagans and only got worse under Jagdeo.

Recent occurences in Guand point to us possibly having an exchange instead of a change. You live abroad so you are unaware of what actually happens here. You depend on the great IT which brings you the news. Well, it does not. iis like how you guys were all jumping up praising the establishment of a water coconout operation on the Essequibo Coast without really understanding who or what the actors are, or talking about the virtues of this coalition government, not seeing who Harmon socializes with and whose vehicle he drives.

let them clarify if was a deal or not. The more info people have, the better will be their choices and decisions. Are you implying  that Kemraj and Moses should not have been informed if Raphael had an arrangement with granger, that the end justify the means if an arrangement existed? That this is just speculation on my part. The silence from the other party to the discussions indicate a lot to me, though not to you. So what makes you right and me wrong?


 

Z

I have not declared for any party and never will since I considered the present coterie of politicos haplessly flawed and more concerned with themselves than with the people. This is so for both sides. But that is besides the point here.

I supported the PPP as I currently support the APNU in principle and on faith that they will do right. I do not work for them nor do I facilitate their agit prop. I write for me and for my personal benefit and hope others will read and get some modicum of understanding and fairness in their readings of our politics.

I am doubtful that being on the ground casts any superior illumination on our political situation. It only serves to retreat into parochialism and ethnic based contamination of thought. It is like being in the water and pretending you are not going to be wet. Those of us looking in and reading the context from an movie perspective see more clearly. We have no dog in the fight and when we back a dog it is because we see its intrinsic promise.

The meeting between the two was private. Raphel hinted it was seminal to their win and any interpretation outside that awaits their telling of it and that is not absolutely necessary. That change was necessary from the inundating corruption of the PPP demanded change.

I have implied nothing. That is your disquieting supposition. If Moses and Ramjattan were uneasy with what Trotman said; they can speak for themselves. If Trotman himself thought it was a potentially harmful revelation that he had a passing discussion he would not speak of it in his sermonizing to constituents.

 

 

FM

My belief that those living abroad do not really get the nuances of Guyanese politics. Furthermore, they look at it through two lens, those who report it and your lens so how much more objective is that?  Additionally, many of those who post on this site and who return go Guyana to take up plum positions prove the falsity  of your claim that we living on the ground are more prone to retreat to "parochialism " or that those living abroad are more objective because they have no dog in the fight. Also, notions of "intrinsic promise" are not universal, but are specific to individuals. 

My "disquiet" is from the silence after the mouth opened and part of the story jumped out.

travelling today. Nice having the "conversation".

Z
Zed posted:
.

I must be a little off today because you are not making sense to me. Trottman confirmed that a meeting took place and that there was a connection between whar was discussed at the meeting and the election victory of the coalition. This is in the public interest and is open to questions and speculation. If the president wants to stop the speculations, then he must address it.

Why is this such high conspiracy.   Indians are the largest voting bloc, and the PPP was also able to use its incumbency to buy most Amerindian votes, and a few black and mixed votes.

Trotman and Granger discussed tactics to offset this.  They succeeded in 2015.

Since when does that rise to a racist act, or a conspiracy which demands explanation.

After all the PPP too can figure out how to woo black and mixed voters to ensure victory in 2020. But they will NOT do this by screaming that they "consolidated the East Indian support base".

FM

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