actually, i endorse nothing . . . i point to history to expose lies and ignar argumentation

to speak of, say, Thomas Jefferson as a progressive on the liberal state's take on religious freedom is in no way to endorse his ownership of slaves and his endorsement of a slave owning economy

that i have to explain something this elementary to adults is sad

Point taken.

This is Redux's statement on the relevant issue - "way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI." Ataturk's involvement in the Armenian Genocide during World War 1 started in 1915.

Go take your ginko and stay focused. 

That's the issue here. The so called decent law abiding ones are abiding by Western laws and Western notions of civilization. The so called "wicked ones" are following Muhammad to the letter.

You may personally follow Muhammad's peaceful teachings. They do not. And somehow, you both seem to be right. Just because you personally do not act on the violent verses do not mean they are not taught as part of Islamic orthodoxy by the "mainstream" clergy. Which tells me your religion is yet to come into the modern era. Let's not quibble over facts here because they may make you feel uncomfortable.

I could totally respect your religious sincerity if you didn't try and gloss over facts.

I see where you went wrong. His comment was not about the abolishment of Shariah law but rather "which decriminalized homosexual acts in 1858!! under Abdulmecid I......"

Glad to see you came around to it bai. Thanks.

How about touting some of Hitler's great policies here while you're at it.

It's even sadder if you can't find an answer to my simple question.

Who really gives a shit about a regime that abolished Sharia Law after their ethnic cleansing policies sent 1.5 million people to their deaths? 

i see, unlike the infantries in WWI, you refuse to walk directly into machine gun fire

good for u . . . stay in your trench and keep ducking

You're obviously not following the conversation and just flapping your jaws aimlessly. 

This is the statement I was referring to clown - "way long before Sharia law was abolished by Ataturk after WWI." My response about the Armenian Genocide is directed to that.

the 1858 reference was to underline the fact that progressive legislation about homosexuals was actually promulgated while the state was under Sharia law . . . laying waste to the pitchfork brigade who would have us believe that such a thing is impossible

It's obvious that my Armenian Genocide response is related to your Ataturk and World War 1 statement. Isn't it or am I the only one who's awake here?

"Captain, we cannot advance further. The stupidity is overwhelming. The enemy is lobbing Ottoman decrees from 1858. We must retreat Sir. Our guns cannot handle this level of stupidity"

You need to replace your M16 with a musket, soldier 

Shaitaan Bhai, Leh Abee knack wan quarter Bakkle rum, place cold. Stop talking about old people and dead people.

Who de rass made that argument? Show me where I ever said a sharia state cannot pass a "progressive law" on homosexuals? Hell, modern Sharia run Iran will pay for you to get a new vagina if you're a man so inclined. Does this make Iran a tolerant progressive society for gays?

My statement was broad and encompassing all of the ingredients of minority rights according to our 2015 notions.

Only a child looking to make an "aha" attempt at being smarty could veer into 1858 Ottoman legal territory.

the Ataturk reference was a jumping off point to inform that the last seat of the Caliphate abolished Sharia law after WWI

i suggest u [re]read the nonsense from shaitaan i was directly responding to before u embarrass yourself further

Wrong tree bai.

You are the only one here who should be embarrassed about touting the achievements of one of the most murderous regimes in the history of mankind. Actually, embarrassed is a bit too mild. You should check into one of those institutions where they tighten loose screws.

I was replying to Redux and at the same time asking for a second opinion. Just checking to see if he was also in La La land like you. 

so . . . in 2015, is "Islamic" Turkey a [relatively] "tolerent and progressive society for gays"?

take your time

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

"Captain, we cannot advance further. The stupidity is overwhelming. The enemy is lobbing Ottoman decrees from 1858. We must retreat Sir. Our guns cannot handle this level of stupidity"

You need to replace your M16 with a musket, soldier 

Talking to Muslims and their useful idiot liberal apologists really strains my nerves.

You just never know what they'll say next. No childish remark will be left unsaid. No vague irrelevant historical reference will be left un-made.

We will always be subjected to the "but look how at such and such time some Muslim society did something marginally better in something before the Europeans got to it"

It's exactly like talking to PPP/Coolies. Exactly! Something bad is done by PPP/Coolies in 2015....well bai decades ago some PNC negroes shot my mother in the head.

PPP/C is destroying UG today...welll bai it was the PPP under Jagan that invented the idea of UG in the 1960s and Guyanese going to college.

It gets so tedious after a while because there's no real response to them. None!

Originally Posted by Mars:

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

"Captain, we cannot advance further. The stupidity is overwhelming. The enemy is lobbing Ottoman decrees from 1858. We must retreat Sir. Our guns cannot handle this level of stupidity"

You need to replace your M16 with a musket, soldier 

 

Talking to Muslims and their useful idiot liberal apologists really strains my nerves.

 

You just never know what they'll say next. No childish remark will be left unsaid. No vague irrelevant historical reference will be left un-made.

 

We will always be subjected to the "but look how at such and such time some Muslim society did something marginally better in something before the Europeans got to it"

 

It's exactly like talking to PPP/Coolies. Exactly! Something bad is done by PPP/Coolies in 2015....well bai decades ago some PNC negroes shot my mother in the head.

 

PPP/C is destroying UG today...welll bai it was the PPP under Jagan that invented the idea of UG in the 1960s and Guyanese going to college.

 

It gets so tedious after a while because there's no real response to them. None!

sorry, u got served dude; and no amount of misdirection smoke out of your ass will obscure that fact!

No it isn't!

tell me how so

I can't speak for anyone else but can assure you that I am always in la la land. Wonderful place to be to escape the harsh realities of life.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Take a moment to google. I can wait.

Be sure to google honor killings of gays by their own families, the new gay specific prison, and the Turkish army's policy of making ALL gays hand in graphic sex photos of themselves to prove the "psychosexual disorder" that is homosexuality in order to be exempt from military service.

I didn't even think Islam's useful idiots would be arguing about how great it was to be gay in the Muslim world, but then again nothing surprises me where stupidity is concerned.

Al YUh skont really gat Nuff time to waste.

lol

the innovative methods of retreat are fascinating to watch

Only this is an actual event of a current GNI member who can't escape that bullet and who finds it very relevant and given the circumstances is within her right to be.

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Originally Posted by Mars:

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

"Captain, we cannot advance further. The stupidity is overwhelming. The enemy is lobbing Ottoman decrees from 1858. We must retreat Sir. Our guns cannot handle this level of stupidity"

You need to replace your M16 with a musket, soldier 

 

Talking to Muslims and their useful idiot liberal apologists really strains my nerves.

 

You just never know what they'll say next. No childish remark will be left unsaid. No vague irrelevant historical reference will be left un-made.

 

We will always be subjected to the "but look how at such and such time some Muslim society did something marginally better in something before the Europeans got to it"

 

It's exactly like talking to PPP/Coolies. Exactly! Something bad is done by PPP/Coolies in 2015....well bai decades ago some PNC negroes shot my mother in the head.

 

PPP/C is destroying UG today...welll bai it was the PPP under Jagan that invented the idea of UG in the 1960s and Guyanese going to college.

 

It gets so tedious after a while because there's no real response to them. None!

sorry, u got served dude; and no amount of misdirection smoke out of your ass will obscure that fact!

Yes, I certainly was "served" by that 1858 Ottoman decree which made Turkey a veritable wonderland for gay people.

Gays all over the Islamic world annually commemorate the 1858 Ottoman decree which served as a model of toleration for the whole Islamic world and became a transformative piece of legislation not only copied but enforced vigorously throughout the Ummah making gay life the piece of cake that is now in Allah's own countries. Even more remarkable was the great epoch of social tolerance that this Ottoman decree spurred for gays and for minority rights in the Ummah. Allah be praised!

I'm enjoying yours when you are challenged. You are more comfortable talking to the unintelligent PPP types about Kwame and buggery. 

i doan need google

correct me if i am wrong, but didn't u post here on GNI that what i bolded in red is common practice in the US military under 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'?

btw, i made points about and asked specific questions about being gay in Turkey . . . nothing about the "Muslim world"

enough with your obfuscating lies!

Everyone is chock full of arguments from their own personal experiences. It's perfectly normal to be bothered by very vicious past experiences.

Which is precisely why we don't base public policy on personal experience.

I have had nothing but the best of personal experiences with Arabs and Arab people. I personally love Saudis. All the Saudis I have ever known are really fun to be around.

That does not mean anything when it comes to a public policy debate about Saudi Arabia and its insanity as a society.

Originally Posted by redux:

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

Originally Posted by Mars:

Originally Posted by Shaitaan:

"Captain, we cannot advance further. The stupidity is overwhelming. The enemy is lobbing Ottoman decrees from 1858. We must retreat Sir. Our guns cannot handle this level of stupidity"

You need to replace your M16 with a musket, soldier 

 

Talking to Muslims and their useful idiot liberal apologists really strains my nerves.

 

You just never know what they'll say next. No childish remark will be left unsaid. No vague irrelevant historical reference will be left un-made.

 

We will always be subjected to the "but look how at such and such time some Muslim society did something marginally better in something before the Europeans got to it"

 

It's exactly like talking to PPP/Coolies. Exactly! Something bad is done by PPP/Coolies in 2015....well bai decades ago some PNC negroes shot my mother in the head.

 

PPP/C is destroying UG today...welll bai it was the PPP under Jagan that invented the idea of UG in the 1960s and Guyanese going to college.

 

It gets so tedious after a while because there's no real response to them. None!

sorry, u got served dude; and no amount of misdirection smoke out of your ass will obscure that fact!

 

Yes, I certainly was "served" by that 1858 Ottoman decree which made Turkey a veritable wonderland for gay people.

 

Gays all over the Islamic world annually commemorate the 1858 Ottoman decree which served as a model of toleration for the whole Islamic world and became a transformative piece of legislation not only copied but enforced vigorously throughout the Ummah making gay life the piece of cake that is now in Allah's own countries. Even more remarkable was the great epoch of social tolerance that this Ottoman decree spurred for gays and for minority rights in the Ummah. Allah be praised!

now you're just being flighty and unnecessarily stupid!

more innovation . . . but with a smiley face this time

Quote mining....the last refuge of the schoolyard debater. I was referring to Commanders who were trying to avoid the fraud of straight soldiers not wanting to deploy and attempting to procure a "DADT" administrative discharge.

"Don't Ask Don't Tell" means just that. Army command won't ask, and army command doesn't want you to tell them. It was designed to allow gay soldiers to serve, not exclude them.

My point was that one frustrated commander who kept getting fraudulent requests from straight cowards got fed up and said anyone trying to get out of their contracts on the ground of being gay has to prove by documentary evidence that they actually engage in gay sex. It goes without saying this was an isolated outburst by an annoyed Commander that was patently unlawful. He was annoyed at straight cowards. Not gays.

saying a thing does not make it so my friend.

I see you can't handle the truth. Stay in your comfort zone and or you'll continue to be made to look silly when you step out among intelligent people.

and you are smart enough to understand the point i am making . . . right?

and stop with the lies regarding my posts; it' so, what's the word, . . . "desperate"

Yes bai. That was a very very good effort. Here is your framed Certificate of Participation You did good

You got to talk to the adults and show off your one shiny Ottoman factoid. I just wonder why more public intellectuals aren't using the "Ottoman Argument"