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FM
Former Member

There is a legal opinion making the rounds which argues that the no confidence motion was not lawfully passed. The ground upon which this opinion is premised is that thirty-three (33) votes do not constitute a majority of a sixty-five (65) members National Assembly.

This argument is not a new one. It came to me as Attorney-General when our government was in a minority. I did not pay much attention to it then. Nor do I accept it now.

I set out my reasons hereunder.

The Speaker has already ruled that the Motion was carried.

Both the Prime Minister, on the night that the Motion was carried and the President the following day, have publicly indicated that the Motion was carried, that the government has fallen and that they will abide with the Constitutional prescription which flows therefrom.

Like many other Commonwealth jurisdictions, apart from the Constitution, there is no other legislation in existence which governs the way that Parliament and the National Assembly function. Article 168(1) of the Constitution provides that, “...all questions proposed for decision in the National Assembly shall be determined by a majority of the votes of the members present and voting”. 'Members' in this context obviously means elected members, as non-elected members cannot vote.

Article 106(6) of the Constitution provides that: “The Cabinet including the President shall resign if the Government is defeated by the vote of a majority of all the elected members of the National Assembly on a vote of confidence”.

So the pivotal question which arises is what amounts to a majority in an Assembly of sixty-five (65). The term majority is not defined by the Constitution. It is not a legal term of art. Therefore, one has to look at the literal grammatical meaning of the word and the way it has been interpreted in and for the purpose of voting in our National Assembly over the years.

The New Oxford Dictionary of English defines 'majority' as “the greater number...”. West's Legal Thesaurus/ Dictionary defines 'majority' as “the greater number; more than half, plurality...”.

It is clear that thirty-three (33), is a larger number than thirty-two (32), it is the plurality and it is more than half of sixty-five (65). As I indicated above, the law and rules governing Parliament and the National Assembly largely evolve and devolve out of 'practice'. Hence the leading parliamentary manual in the Commonwealth is titled “May's Parliamentary Practice”. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us to examine the parliamentary practice in Guyana in relation to voting.

I submit that the practice has always been that thirty-three (33), votes are sufficient to carry any motion or any bill put forward for passage in the National Assembly. It is for this reason that APNU+AFC, with their one seat majority of thirty-three (33), were able to cut the annual budgets in the tenth (10) Parliament when the PPP had only thirty-two (32) seats. It is by the same measure, they were able to vote down the legislative changes required for the AML/CFT laws, the Amaila Falls Project etc.

More importantly, if thirty-three (33), is not a majority in a sixty-five (65) members National Assembly then APNU+AFC could not have lawfully formed the Government after the 2015 Elections. Neither could they have passed any bills or any budgets in that National Assembly. All the above were only possible because by our parliamentary practice, thirty-three (33) was always considered a majority in our sixty-five (65) members National Assembly.

No case cited from any foreign land can change this parliamentary and constitutional reality.

Significantly, our Constitution speaks not of an 'absolute majority' but of a 'majority'. These terminologies are different and they are guided by different principles.

I hope that I have, in clear and simple language, put that legal opinion to rest.

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I submit that the practice has always been that thirty-three (33), votes are sufficient to carry any motion or any bill put forward for passage in the National Assembly. It is for this reason that APNU+AFC, with their one seat majority of thirty-three (33), were able to cut the annual budgets in the tenth (10) Parliament when the PPP had only thirty-two (32) seats. It is by the same measure, they were able to vote down the legislative changes required for the AML/CFT laws, the Amaila Falls Project etc.

More importantly, if thirty-three (33), is not a majority in a sixty-five (65) members National Assembly then APNU+AFC could not have lawfully formed the Government after the 2015 Elections. Neither could they have passed any bills or any budgets in that National Assembly. All the above were only possible because by our parliamentary practice, thirty-three (33) was always considered a majority in our sixty-five (65) members National Assembly.

FM
Nehru posted:

Bhai Ray, the animals in the PNC will come up with a 1000 reasons why they should remain in POWER. Bloody PARASITES!!!

dude...the leaders of the PNC have already accepted the results...so you're wrong

FM

They said they accepted but knowing them well, I have to be on guard.

By the way we must all pray for Mr Granger, he left today for more treatment, I hope all is well, very concerning situation.

Nehru
Ray posted:
Nehru posted:

Bhai Ray, the animals in the PNC will come up with a 1000 reasons why they should remain in POWER. Bloody PARASITES!!!

dude...the leaders of the PNC have already accepted the results...so you're wrong

Moses stated right after the NC that he intends to have their lawyers look over the matter, For what?

K

that 34 vote analysis was from Nigel Hughes' Facebook page

curiously, former Speaker Ralph Ramkarran told Stabroek News essentially the same thing on November 26:

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2...would-see-govt-fall/

"Two-term Speaker of the National Assembly, Ralph Ramkarran stated in an interview with Stabroek News  “The PPP needs two votes. One would only neutralize the advantage but the other will see them winning the motion unlike in the passage of the Appropriation Bill. If there is a tie when the no-confidence motion goes to the floor then the Standing Orders state that the motion doesn’t pass. And by the same logic, if the Appropriation (bill) is put to the House and there is a tie then that doesn’t pass or it is defeated. That is very serious because what that means is that the government will fall.”

alyuh enjoy

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Ray posted:

I think Anil responding to Nigel Huges

Yes, he is responding to Nigel Hughes who is deathly afraid for his job in Texas with the coalition.  His oil tap is getting turned off.  Wifey could be without a job.  Nigel is in panic mode.  He just emptied his bank account to finance Lennox Shuman Amerindian party to keep the coalition in govt.  

Charrandas got all of them running mad.

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Ray posted:

leeme see...voodoo maths in action

Suh PNC got 33 - 32

They lose one and PPP gain one...what does that equal to???

dude, did i express an opinion?

i directed all present to READ Ralph Ramkarran's analysis of 3 weeks ago

buy y'all rather prance and dance

FM
ronan posted:

that 34 vote analysis was from Nigel Hughes' Facebook page

curiously, former Speaker Ralph Ramkarran told Stabroek News essentially the same thing on November 26:

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2...would-see-govt-fall/

"Two-term Speaker of the National Assembly, Ralph Ramkarran stated in an interview with Stabroek News  “The PPP needs two votes. One would only neutralize the advantage but the other will see them winning the motion unlike in the passage of the Appropriation Bill. If there is a tie when the no-confidence motion goes to the floor then the Standing Orders state that the motion doesn’t pass. And by the same logic, if the Appropriation (bill) is put to the House and there is a tie then that doesn’t pass or it is defeated. That is very serious because what that means is that the government will fall.”

alyuh enjoy

Ralph Ramkarran had denounced this on his Facebook page earlier today.

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Ray posted:

I think Anil responding to Nigel Huges

Yes he is responding to Nigel Hughes who is deathly afraid of his job in Texas with the coalition.  His oil tap is getting turned off.  Wifey could be without a job.  Nigel is in panic mode.  He just emptied his bank account to finance Lennox Shuman Amerindian party to keep the coalition in govt.  

Charrandas got all of them running mad.

i guess Ralph Ramkarran ran mad 3 weeks ago

rite?

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
ronan posted:

that 34 vote analysis was from Nigel Hughes' Facebook page

curiously, former Speaker Ralph Ramkarran told Stabroek News essentially the same thing on November 26:

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2...would-see-govt-fall/

"Two-term Speaker of the National Assembly, Ralph Ramkarran stated in an interview with Stabroek News  “The PPP needs two votes. One would only neutralize the advantage but the other will see them winning the motion unlike in the passage of the Appropriation Bill. If there is a tie when the no-confidence motion goes to the floor then the Standing Orders state that the motion doesn’t pass. And by the same logic, if the Appropriation (bill) is put to the House and there is a tie then that doesn’t pass or it is defeated. That is very serious because what that means is that the government will fall.”

alyuh enjoy

Ralph Ramkarran had denounced this on his Facebook page earlier today.

did he "denounce" himself?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Bibi Haniffa posted:
ronan posted:

that 34 vote analysis was from Nigel Hughes' Facebook page

curiously, former Speaker Ralph Ramkarran told Stabroek News essentially the same thing on November 26:

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2...would-see-govt-fall/

"Two-term Speaker of the National Assembly, Ralph Ramkarran stated in an interview with Stabroek News  “The PPP needs two votes. One would only neutralize the advantage but the other will see them winning the motion unlike in the passage of the Appropriation Bill. If there is a tie when the no-confidence motion goes to the floor then the Standing Orders state that the motion doesn’t pass. And by the same logic, if the Appropriation (bill) is put to the House and there is a tie then that doesn’t pass or it is defeated. That is very serious because what that means is that the government will fall.”

alyuh enjoy

Ralph Ramkarran had denounced this on his Facebook page earlier today.

LMFAO

FM
Ray posted:

By bringing up that piece by Ralph, you suggesting that it makes sense....so, you agree with Ralph or not?

i brought it up because of the stupid posts littering your premises on the matter

there is obviously a valid legal question out there . . . i have not studied the issue

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Bibi Haniffa posted:

I see we are in the middle of handle rotation.  Like changing the guard at Buckingham palace.

..the only thing you ought to be seeing is the puerile nonsense you are posting. Ronan posted what Ramkarran said earlier on the matter and you immediately respond with some trite shit about "oh, he denounced that on facebook". Childish.

FM

legal scholar Ralph Ramkarran "denouncing" himself on FaceBook today:

"When i said that two votes were required for the no confidence motion to succeed, I was obviously wrong."

uh huh

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ronan posted:

legal scholar Ralph Ramkarran "denouncing" himself on FaceBook today:

"When i said that two votes were required for the no confidence motion to succeed, I was obviously wrong."

uh huh

these people see NOTHING wrong with this "denouncing". Nothing. Just "oh, he denounced this today". No curiousity, nothing. Just sheer parroting of Freedom House.

FM
Ray posted:

By bringing up that piece by Ralph, you suggesting that it makes sense....so, you agree with Ralph or not?

After Nandlall's clear and concise commentary which you posted above, Ramkaran corrected himself that he was wrong in opining that the PPP needed 34 votes to constitute a majority. Some folks have no other option but to clutch at straws. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Prashad posted:

If there is a tie vote in the US Senate then the Vice President votes to break the tie.

The Coalition would be fine then since they have about a gazillion vice presidents. 

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
ronan posted:

that 34 vote analysis was from Nigel Hughes' Facebook page

curiously, former Speaker Ralph Ramkarran told Stabroek News essentially the same thing on November 26:

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2...would-see-govt-fall/

"Two-term Speaker of the National Assembly, Ralph Ramkarran stated in an interview with Stabroek News  “The PPP needs two votes. One would only neutralize the advantage but the other will see them winning the motion unlike in the passage of the Appropriation Bill. If there is a tie when the no-confidence motion goes to the floor then the Standing Orders state that the motion doesn’t pass. And by the same logic, if the Appropriation (bill) is put to the House and there is a tie then that doesn’t pass or it is defeated. That is very serious because what that means is that the government will fall.”

alyuh enjoy

Ralph Ramkarran had denounced this on his Facebook page earlier today.

Girl, why did you not just say he made an Arithmatic mistake.  This is a concept of Differential Arithmatic.  Maybe cousin Ralphy only learned additive and deductive principles!

FM

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