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FM
Former Member
7 minutes ago

Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

Much bitters for Guyanese tongues. Dey goan be getting white mouth-no food.

the Guyanese people will be fine . . . especially those in Linden u busy wukkin Nigerian obeah pan

As if I doan have any other things to do. Too bad observations with comments are read by fools as well. 

Still screaming for Nigerian juju curses on black Guyanese, while you PRETEND to be a man of God?

The pastor is a man of God. And it is not a good ting to speak ill of such a person. I am not a pastor suh I can curse from time to time. Behave u fooking self and stop wid this juju thing. U keep mentioning dem spirits dem might like u and cling onto to u. That is some misery u goan dey pan. 

he most certainly is a man of the devil if he sanctions the wickedness of a racist cockroach like u

And I supposes u r not a racist. We are all racist. Not so long ago D2 stated his views on East Indians. He may not think he is a racist, but some Indoes do. Myself, he stated his experience. As for Cain, typical putagee, dem never like Indoes-we confuse them. 

It is not my view. It is the reality. Indians have taboos against race mixing. They hold their women as the sentinels of t heir culture and place on them the burden of defending it by not marrying into other races. 

 

Indians In guyana do not acknowledge the primacy of the state as the cradle of their culture. They think they got it whole cloth from Indian when you and I know we were outcasts there for 6000 years and in guyana we constituted a viable culture that recognized us as full Humans.

 

Go lie to yourself that this is not truth but It would be you deceiving yourself.

Suh, leh me understand this, Are u agreeing wid dem collie bois here, that claim u r a racist?

 

Individual citizens make up a country. If indoes were denied equal citizenship in the PNC era. How do u expect them to react. And this 6000 year story about India caste system has nothing to do with Guyana. Even as u claim to know, people intellect comes from God-suh being a dalit doan mean stupidity. And we did good in Guyana-being dalits and all. Imbeciles doan travel abroad or even think of it. They are captured. Untouchables strive to free demselves. Perhaps too many keep reminding themselves of their plight when in actual fact they slowly progress. Considering all adversities. All the way in Guyana, they are reminded of their subjugations.  

I do not base my views on what the "coolie boys" here believe. Most are mal educated racist dunces who who do not know or acknowledge their origins. Instead most of them think they were born in in the courts of Rajas and  moved to Guyana to save the nation and constitute a viable economy.  This lie denies a cruel  history of subjugation and underclass status existing  for eons that is the real history. It is a pretentious recasting oneself for no other reason than to be cruel  and to lie to yourselves that you are superior. This delusion is presently a cementing force if not a summoning creed in the guyanese Indian culture and is the basis of the insidious racism that exists. Black people  react against the backdrop of this nasty cultural expression since it is fabricated exclusively with them in mind. They have no exclusion or separateness mores in their culture with respect to Indians.

 

Indians were never denied equal citizenship rights under burnham. The first five ministers sworn in under his regime were indians. Indians conspired to make him win, you had the justice party leader uplifting him, Ishmael funding his destabilization efforts etc. He was well supplied with indian intellect to make him viable enough to win the 64 elections.

 

That he anticipated what the PPP would do to his party and people made him take a philosophically backward step and rig the elections. He kept a cadre of kind close to him. He had no policies that directly favored any group over any other. He simply give benefits to his friends and family. That Indians use his era as the basis of their sacred victimization status is simply productive of another lie based on its own belief that black is bad. It was a mass black resistance movement that made it possible to removed him  and his party from office showing he was an equal opportunity oppressor and Black people suffered as well under him as any other. I did not see them standing in different bread lines than indian when flour was scarce.

 

The caste system do in fact have direct bearing on the organization of the Indian Guyanese culture. Indians may not practice castesm overtly or  follow its insidious historical precedents because they need each other in this new world and all of them are of the same sudra untouchable status at home. Caste still permeates the culture in terms of marriages and pretensions to status. You have an example of the AG setting himself apart from Brazzington and Jagdeo on account of caste. He considered t hem chatri which means they were sudras. But Indian castesm expresses itself insidiously as a cultural taboo with respect to black people. They are t he "others" in the society and any mixing of the culture denigrates the offspring to literal outcast status as "dougla" or the excluded bastards. There is no getting around this reality. We have to get over it.

 

I never said being a dalit meaning any thing other than the Gandhian way of saying the oppressed or the outcaste. It was meant to obviate  the lie of being not equal in the society given the native indian Varna classification. One is that way because religion and casted predestined their lot not ones presence in the society as a human being. It is a state of being that is in the modern world and in Guyana where the landscape is not dominated with Brahmanism conception of Sanathan Dharm. Guyana has a peculiar reconstituted Sanathan Dharm where caste does not matter.

 

However, some still rely on the cast structure as stated above while others see the Indian as a Unit and label black people and Amerindian the backward Others. How many times have you seen anyone here call an indian inferior? However, Indians here habitually extol their superior virtues and actually live by the notion they are better than others. I get the cassava bread and piwari leveled at me daily when I came from the plantacrocy ( did not chose my life) and lived a privileged life from the cradle to now. That nasty habit is what I call dalitism, a lie for no reason except self deception.

 

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by Stormborn:
7 minutes ago

Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

Much bitters for Guyanese tongues. Dey goan be getting white mouth-no food.

the Guyanese people will be fine . . . especially those in Linden u busy wukkin Nigerian obeah pan

As if I doan have any other things to do. Too bad observations with comments are read by fools as well. 

Still screaming for Nigerian juju curses on black Guyanese, while you PRETEND to be a man of God?

The pastor is a man of God. And it is not a good ting to speak ill of such a person. I am not a pastor suh I can curse from time to time. Behave u fooking self and stop wid this juju thing. U keep mentioning dem spirits dem might like u and cling onto to u. That is some misery u goan dey pan. 

he most certainly is a man of the devil if he sanctions the wickedness of a racist cockroach like u

And I supposes u r not a racist. We are all racist. Not so long ago D2 stated his views on East Indians. He may not think he is a racist, but some Indoes do. Myself, he stated his experience. As for Cain, typical putagee, dem never like Indoes-we confuse them. 

It is not my view. It is the reality. Indians have taboos against race mixing. They hold their women as the sentinels of t heir culture and place on them the burden of defending it by not marrying into other races. 

 

Indians In guyana do not acknowledge the primacy of the state as the cradle of their culture. They think they got it whole cloth from Indian when you and I know we were outcasts there for 6000 years and in guyana we constituted a viable culture that recognized us as full Humans.

 

Go lie to yourself that this is not truth but It would be you deceiving yourself.

Suh, leh me understand this, Are u agreeing wid dem collie bois here, that claim u r a racist?

 

Individual citizens make up a country. If indoes were denied equal citizenship in the PNC era. How do u expect them to react. And this 6000 year story about India caste system has nothing to do with Guyana. Even as u claim to know, people intellect comes from God-suh being a dalit doan mean stupidity. And we did good in Guyana-being dalits and all. Imbeciles doan travel abroad or even think of it. They are captured. Untouchables strive to free demselves. Perhaps too many keep reminding themselves of their plight when in actual fact they slowly progress. Considering all adversities. All the way in Guyana, they are reminded of their subjugations.  

I do not base my views on what the "coolie boys" here believe. Most are mal educated racist dunces who who do not know or acknowledge their origins. Instead most of them think they were born in in the courts of Rajas and  moved to Guyana to save the nation and constitute a viable economy.  This lie denies a cruel  history of subjugation and underclass status existing  for eons that is the real history. It is a pretentious recasting oneself for no other reason than to be cruel  and to lie to yourselves that you are superior. This delusion is presently a cementing force if not a summoning creed in the guyanese Indian culture and is the basis of the insidious racism that exists. Black people  react against the backdrop of this nasty cultural expression since it is fabricated exclusively with them in mind. They have no exclusion or separateness mores in their culture with respect to Indians.

 

Indians were never denied equal citizenship rights under burnham. The first five ministers sworn in under his regime were indians. Indians conspired to make him win, you had the justice party leader uplifting him, Ishmael funding his destabilization efforts etc. He was well supplied with indian intellect to make him viable enough to win the 64 elections.

 

That he anticipated what the PPP would do to his party and people made him take a philosophically backward step and rig the elections. He kept a cadre of kind close to him. He had no policies that directly favored any group over any other. He simply give benefits to his friends and family. That Indians use his era as the basis of their sacred victimization status is simply productive of another lie based on its own belief that black is bad. It was a mass black resistance movement that made it possible to removed him  and his party from office showing he was an equal opportunity oppressor and Black people suffered as well under him as any other. I did not see them standing in different bread lines than indian when flour was scarce.

 

The caste system do in fact have direct bearing on the organization of the Indian Guyanese culture. Indians may not practice castesm overtly or  follow its insidious historical precedents because they need each other in this new world and all of them are of the same sudra untouchable status at home. Caste still permeates the culture in terms of marriages and pretensions to status. You have an example of the AG setting himself apart from Brazzington and Jagdeo on account of caste. He considered t hem chatri which means they were sudras. But Indian castesm expresses itself insidiously as a cultural taboo with respect to black people. They are t he "others" in the society and any mixing of the culture denigrates the offspring to literal outcast status as "dougla" or the excluded bastards. There is no getting around this reality. We have to get over it.

 

I never said being a dalit meaning any thing other than the Gandhian way of saying the oppressed or the outcaste. It was meant to obviate  the lie of being not equal in the society given the native indian Varna classification. One is that way because religion and casted predestined their lot not ones presence in the society as a human being. It is a state of being that is in the modern world and in Guyana where the landscape is not dominated with Brahmanism conception of Sanathan Dharm. Guyana has a peculiar reconstituted Sanathan Dharm where caste does not matter.

 

However, some still rely on the cast structure as stated above while others see the Indian as a Unit and label black people and Amerindian the backward Others. How many times have you seen anyone here call an indian inferior? However, Indians here habitually extol their superior virtues and actually live by the notion they are better than others. I get the cassava bread and piwari leveled at me daily when I came from the plantacrocy ( did not chose my life) and lived a privileged life from the cradle to now. That nasty habit is what I call dalitism, a lie for no reason except self deception.

 

FYI....

 

No such thing as the "dalits" in the sense that some africans have argued that the original Indian was a black dalit from Africa...exist in India. They point to some indigenous tribal group in India to make their point due to the physical appearance of this group of people. This is as fake as Kean Gibson's argument that Indians discriminate against Blacks due to the caste system (keep in mind many Indians are Christians and Muslims who do not fall into this category). This is a myth also as the argument that some light skinned people from Asia called Indo -Aryans invaded India to set up the caste system.  This argument was made was made by a German, but has been proven a myth by Indian scholars...

 

It is customary that broups stick together due to common experience, history, language, etc....this does not make Indians "racist". The same can be said of the Amerindians and Blacks in Guyana.

 

You fools need to learn about your history and stop arguing that Indians are racists...and other as are not. And dont confuse this with the current ethnic problems in Guyana, which obviously contribute the subjective feelings towards "the other". This does not make people racist....nor wanting to vote for someone who they feel will represent their interests....that is the nature of politics the world over.

 

Why dont you knuckleheads address the issue of Black racism against Indians....why is it always the Indian who has to defend and prove himself when they assert themselves???   Carib and Redux, you out there???    

V
Last edited by VishMahabir
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
 

You fools need to learn about your history and stop arguing that Indians are racists...and other as are not. And dont confuse this with the current ethnic problems in Guyana, which obviously contribute the subjective feelings towards "the other". This does not make people racist....nor wanting to vote for someone who they feel will represent their interests....that is the nature of politics the world over.

 

Why dont you knuckleheads address the issue of Black racism against Indians....why is it always the Indian who has to defend and prove himself when they assert themselves???   Carib and Redux, you out there???    

1.  Caribj, Itaname, and Redux have all admitted to the fact that there was targeted racism against the masses of Indians, not withstanding the presence of many Indians like Shahabudeen, the Luckhoos, and other credible people, who have accomplished much OUTSIDE of Guyana and so weren't mere tokens.

 

Can you discuss when we have seen similar chatter from Indians about the similar exclusion of blacks under the PPP?  And don't give us the blather about all those lowly clerks who populate gov't offices, when you know ful well that Indians do not want, and in fact never wanted those under paid jobs.  And in fact have poured scorn on blacks for occupying those positions.

 

 

2.  There is NO scenario where the PNC would have campaigned against an African using the racially incendiary language which was used against Moses. While he was still in the PPP who won an award from an Indian Disaporic group. Upon receipt of this who claimed that he was a "Guyanese" and not an "Indian", using the fact that a Pakistani is also NOT an Indian.

 

What did the PPP do, but claim that Moses denied by of Indian descent.

 

Now did APNU scream that Elizabeth Harper should call herself "African" and not "Guyanese"?

 

IN fact to refute your argument about all groups being bound by ethnicity, we don't even have a definite mutually agreed upon criteria as to who in Guyana is "African" or whether such a person should be called "black" or "negro".  We have no idea at what point does some one cease being "African/black/negro" and start being "mixed".  

 

There does not exist the sharply defined notion of ethnicity among people of predominant/part African descent equivalent to that of what we see among Indians. You cannot argue that there is the same attitude towards interracial marriages as occurs among Indians.  There is also not the same primacy of ethnicity over nationality as exists among Indians.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
 

You fools need to learn about your history and stop arguing that Indians are racists...and other as are not. And dont confuse this with the current ethnic problems in Guyana, which obviously contribute the subjective feelings towards "the other". This does not make people racist....nor wanting to vote for someone who they feel will represent their interests....that is the nature of politics the world over.

 

Why dont you knuckleheads address the issue of Black racism against Indians....why is it always the Indian who has to defend and prove himself when they assert themselves???   Carib and Redux, you out there???    

1.  Caribj, Itaname, and Redux have all admitted to the fact that there was targeted racism against the masses of Indians, not withstanding the presence of many Indians like Shahabudeen, the Luckhoos, and other credible people, who have accomplished much OUTSIDE of Guyana and so weren't mere tokens.

 

Can you discuss when we have seen similar chatter from Indians about the similar exclusion of blacks under the PPP?  And don't give us the blather about all those lowly clerks who populate gov't offices, when you know ful well that Indians do not want, and in fact never wanted those under paid jobs.  And in fact have poured scorn on blacks for occupying those positions.

 

 

2.  There is NO scenario where the PNC would have campaigned against an African using the racially incendiary language which was used against Moses. While he was still in the PPP who won an award from an Indian Disaporic group. Upon receipt of this who claimed that he was a "Guyanese" and not an "Indian", using the fact that a Pakistani is also NOT an Indian.

 

What did the PPP do, but claim that Moses denied by of Indian descent.

 

Now did APNU scream that Elizabeth Harper should call herself "African" and not "Guyanese"?

 

IN fact to refute your argument about all groups being bound by ethnicity, we don't even have a definite mutually agreed upon criteria as to who in Guyana is "African" or whether such a person should be called "black" or "negro".  We have no idea at what point does some one cease being "African/black/negro" and start being "mixed".  

 

There does not exist the sharply defined notion of ethnicity among people of predominant/part African descent equivalent to that of what we see among Indians. You cannot argue that there is the same attitude towards interracial marriages as occurs among Indians.  There is also not the same primacy of ethnicity over nationality as exists among Indians.

 

Carib,

All the BS and petty accusations of who is and who is not a racist aside...I think you raise some important issues regarding Guyanese politics....

 

Here are a few thoughts

 

1) The expression of Indians against "interracial marriages" are based on cultural expressions, not on "racial overtones" as others like Kean Gibson would argue. It is embedded in their culture. I can say that Indian kids who are steeped into this cultural upbringing would reject "intermarriage" with any non-Indian (whites, blacks, others).

 

2) Most Africans in the Caribbean have adopted the European western culture (by force or by choice) just like how the Luckhoos, Ramphals, etc in the old colonial days have. They have been "creolized". As a result, they see Indians as clannish, selfish and are suspicious of them. We know the story of how Indians have been accused of taking African lands and how they depress they wage bargaining power when they landed in the colony. These are all contributing factors to the current racial problems in Guyana.

 

There are some Indians and others who are trying to reclaim their heritage or what was lost during the colonial time or after that. This is more pronounced among young Muslims in Guyana today who are vigorously reclaiming their lost culture. ACDA and other Pan-Africanist groups are also encouraging Africans to do the same. But to answer your question, Indians are concerned about their continuous cultural loss, and are trying to preserve as much as they possibly can. I believe this is a more plausible explanation for the cultural divide between Indians and Africans. Psychologically, I believe Africans have lost so much that its bothers them when Indians try to reclaim and secure what is traditionally theirs.

 

3) On the question of mixed race and their loyalty...I believe again because of Indians willingness to protect their cultural, or what remains of it, they do tend to lock out mixed race in the same way that they do Africans. This would partially explain why politically and culturally "mixed races" have aligned themselves with Africans in the Caribbean, and not with Indians.....     

4) On the question of Moses, the PPP was trying to secure its Indian base...so was the Africans, even though I would argue that the Black electorate was and has strongly been aligned with the PNC, simply because they see that party as representing their interest. Therte was no need then for Granger to embark on the kind of rhetoric Jagdeo was accused of at Babu John. The blacks were already secured, but for the PPP the AFC threaten to take political power from them by the 11% vote.

 

Regarding Moses Indianness, I dont think the PPP had to dwell on this...if I recall it was part of a letter debate in the local papers that raise this issue based on what Moses said. You have your interpretation Carib, but Moses was saying that to make a point to his African brothers in the audience...look at the tape and the speech....I saw it on the internet but cannot remember the link. Moses was simply showing his African brothers and Granger that he was indeed with them...and he was playing politics. He knew that....and Moses is not known as a protector of Indian culture....he wanted the 11% so he can take his seat in parliament. This is how the Indians see him...even more so now.   

 

Just my thoughts on the issues you raise....which I think are important for any discussion on race...the problem is that our politicians in Guyana sweep it under the rug. I think if Africans and Indians can trade their shoes for a few minutes they may begin to understand each other.

V
Last edited by VishMahabir
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
7 minutes ago

Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

Much bitters for Guyanese tongues. Dey goan be getting white mouth-no food.

the Guyanese people will be fine . . . especially those in Linden u busy wukkin Nigerian obeah pan

As if I doan have any other things to do. Too bad observations with comments are read by fools as well. 

Still screaming for Nigerian juju curses on black Guyanese, while you PRETEND to be a man of God?

The pastor is a man of God. And it is not a good ting to speak ill of such a person. I am not a pastor suh I can curse from time to time. Behave u fooking self and stop wid this juju thing. U keep mentioning dem spirits dem might like u and cling onto to u. That is some misery u goan dey pan. 

he most certainly is a man of the devil if he sanctions the wickedness of a racist cockroach like u

And I supposes u r not a racist. We are all racist. Not so long ago D2 stated his views on East Indians. He may not think he is a racist, but some Indoes do. Myself, he stated his experience. As for Cain, typical putagee, dem never like Indoes-we confuse them. 

It is not my view. It is the reality. Indians have taboos against race mixing. They hold their women as the sentinels of t heir culture and place on them the burden of defending it by not marrying into other races. 

 

Indians In guyana do not acknowledge the primacy of the state as the cradle of their culture. They think they got it whole cloth from Indian when you and I know we were outcasts there for 6000 years and in guyana we constituted a viable culture that recognized us as full Humans.

 

Go lie to yourself that this is not truth but It would be you deceiving yourself.

Suh, leh me understand this, Are u agreeing wid dem collie bois here, that claim u r a racist?

 

Individual citizens make up a country. If indoes were denied equal citizenship in the PNC era. How do u expect them to react. And this 6000 year story about India caste system has nothing to do with Guyana. Even as u claim to know, people intellect comes from God-suh being a dalit doan mean stupidity. And we did good in Guyana-being dalits and all. Imbeciles doan travel abroad or even think of it. They are captured. Untouchables strive to free demselves. Perhaps too many keep reminding themselves of their plight when in actual fact they slowly progress. Considering all adversities. All the way in Guyana, they are reminded of their subjugations.  

I do not base my views on what the "coolie boys" here believe. Most are mal educated racist dunces who who do not know or acknowledge their origins. Instead most of them think they were born in in the courts of Rajas and  moved to Guyana to save the nation and constitute a viable economy.  This lie denies a cruel  history of subjugation and underclass status existing  for eons that is the real history. It is a pretentious recasting oneself for no other reason than to be cruel  and to lie to yourselves that you are superior. This delusion is presently a cementing force if not a summoning creed in the guyanese Indian culture and is the basis of the insidious racism that exists. Black people  react against the backdrop of this nasty cultural expression since it is fabricated exclusively with them in mind. They have no exclusion or separateness mores in their culture with respect to Indians.

 

Indians were never denied equal citizenship rights under burnham. The first five ministers sworn in under his regime were indians. Indians conspired to make him win, you had the justice party leader uplifting him, Ishmael funding his destabilization efforts etc. He was well supplied with indian intellect to make him viable enough to win the 64 elections.

 

That he anticipated what the PPP would do to his party and people made him take a philosophically backward step and rig the elections. He kept a cadre of kind close to him. He had no policies that directly favored any group over any other. He simply give benefits to his friends and family. That Indians use his era as the basis of their sacred victimization status is simply productive of another lie based on its own belief that black is bad. It was a mass black resistance movement that made it possible to removed him  and his party from office showing he was an equal opportunity oppressor and Black people suffered as well under him as any other. I did not see them standing in different bread lines than indian when flour was scarce.

 

The caste system do in fact have direct bearing on the organization of the Indian Guyanese culture. Indians may not practice castesm overtly or  follow its insidious historical precedents because they need each other in this new world and all of them are of the same sudra untouchable status at home. Caste still permeates the culture in terms of marriages and pretensions to status. You have an example of the AG setting himself apart from Brazzington and Jagdeo on account of caste. He considered t hem chatri which means they were sudras. But Indian castesm expresses itself insidiously as a cultural taboo with respect to black people. They are t he "others" in the society and any mixing of the culture denigrates the offspring to literal outcast status as "dougla" or the excluded bastards. There is no getting around this reality. We have to get over it.

 

I never said being a dalit meaning any thing other than the Gandhian way of saying the oppressed or the outcaste. It was meant to obviate  the lie of being not equal in the society given the native indian Varna classification. One is that way because religion and casted predestined their lot not ones presence in the society as a human being. It is a state of being that is in the modern world and in Guyana where the landscape is not dominated with Brahmanism conception of Sanathan Dharm. Guyana has a peculiar reconstituted Sanathan Dharm where caste does not matter.

 

However, some still rely on the cast structure as stated above while others see the Indian as a Unit and label black people and Amerindian the backward Others. How many times have you seen anyone here call an indian inferior? However, Indians here habitually extol their superior virtues and actually live by the notion they are better than others. I get the cassava bread and piwari leveled at me daily when I came from the plantacrocy ( did not chose my life) and lived a privileged life from the cradle to now. That nasty habit is what I call dalitism, a lie for no reason except self deception.

 

FYI....

 

No such thing as the "dalits" in the sense that some africans have argued that the original Indian was a black dalit from Africa...exist in India. They point to some indigenous tribal group in India to make their point due to the physical appearance of this group of people. This is as fake as Kean Gibson's argument that Indians discriminate against Blacks due to the caste system (keep in mind many Indians are Christians and Muslims who do not fall into this category). This is a myth also as the argument that some light skinned people from Asia called Indo -Aryans invaded India to set up the caste system.  This argument was made was made by a German, but has been proven a myth by Indian scholars...

 

It is customary that broups stick together due to common experience, history, language, etc....this does not make Indians "racist". The same can be said of the Amerindians and Blacks in Guyana.

 

You fools need to learn about your history and stop arguing that Indians are racists...and other as are not. And dont confuse this with the current ethnic problems in Guyana, which obviously contribute the subjective feelings towards "the other". This does not make people racist....nor wanting to vote for someone who they feel will represent their interests....that is the nature of politics the world over.

 

Why dont you knuckleheads address the issue of Black racism against Indians....why is it always the Indian who has to defend and prove himself when they assert themselves???   Carib and Redux, you out there???    

You are silly as a jaybird. The sidis are dalits in the sense of ambedcar's and Gandhi's use of the term. Sidis are indeed Africans who were taken to Indian by the Portuguese and who remained. Africans has nothing to do with the origination of the word which is plainly coined to bring the Sudra and peoples of India tribal belt into one class of oppressed or scheduled caste.

 

Gibson did not invent or highlight the term. It is in the literature and its use here as I contrived it to be as representative of that state of destitution where one's shadow dare not intersect the path of the parasitic caste called Brahmins. It is to highlight the abject ignorance of those who think the term has relevance. It does not. It is a label, an umbrella term used to reference everyone who were misused because of the concoction called caste.

 

If the Aryans are an outside group what set up caste so be it. It permeated the culture of Indians to the core that even today some 600 millions are oppressed on account of this belied. It means it is not an Aryan trait any longer but an acculturated habit that completely dominated the lives of Indians. No German wrote the rig vedas or the manu smiti That is as indian as rama and krishna.

 

Indians  are racists. I grew up in the culture and is as indian as any indian want to be because it is what my fathers family adhered to and what they live and died by.  If you are indian, you hear it everyday or you lie to yourself.

 

As I said, blacks are racist as well. When one looks into t he culture one does not see prohibitions to race mixing from within. One then has to explain it in terms of external explanations. It is because others in the society presume themselves to be better and when push comes to shove that bit is as farcical as denying that black people are universally hated for no other reason than the color of their skin.

 

CaribJ ever says he is better than anyone. He speaks to dispositions he presume is endemic to Indians he terms clannishness. I do not like the term since clans are not of necessity racist but simply designation of family line. Redux just make fun of you fools because he is super smart and write lot of shit simply to push your idiotic buttons.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Thank God most Amerindians are not DUMB PRICKS like Piwari, Grass shirt IDIOT D2/Stormy!!!!!!!!!! In FACT, HE IS A BUCK<AN who eat SHIT and drink trench water all his life. No wonder he is a DUMB PRICK!!!

So much for the racist and the idiot. One cannot produce a more relevant example. You take the cake.

FM
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Thank God most Amerindians are not DUMB PRICKS like Piwari, Grass shirt IDIOT D2/Stormy!!!!!!!!!! In FACT, HE IS A BUCK<AN who eat SHIT and drink trench water all his life. No wonder he is a DUMB PRICK!!!

Oii wha you deh pun Stormy is on target,why you shouting

out all them names eh bhai,ah hope i will not have to run

for cover.

Django

VishMahabir : Just my thoughts on the issues you raise....

which I think are important for any discussion on race...

the problem is that our politicians in Guyana sweep it under the rug.

 

I think if Africans and Indians can trade their shoes

for a few minutes they may begin to understand each other.

 

Well Jagdeo & Ramotar

pick up Kwame & Lamumba and trade their shoes

for more than a few minutes...

 

and what we got....

 

Under the PPP......

Black House of Isreal Thugs & Crab Louse

like Kwame & Lamumba infesting Freedom House

and Office of the President....

 

Aya cannot understand Hanging Mala round dem neck

cant mek them Black Killers + Parasites

Hindu or Indian.

 

Aya put Dog in de fowl pen

fuh suck egg...& Kill Chicken

 

Aya Continue hiding them Black

House Of Israel killers in freedom house

and worrying if Moses is Indian or Guyanese....

 

Moses & Ramjattan aint Killing anyone....

 

Remove those Indian/Hindu Shoes from

Kwame, Lamumba & Other Black House Of Israel Thugs

 

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
7 minutes ago

Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

Much bitters for Guyanese tongues. Dey goan be getting white mouth-no food.

the Guyanese people will be fine . . . especially those in Linden u busy wukkin Nigerian obeah pan

As if I doan have any other things to do. Too bad observations with comments are read by fools as well. 

Still screaming for Nigerian juju curses on black Guyanese, while you PRETEND to be a man of God?

The pastor is a man of God. And it is not a good ting to speak ill of such a person. I am not a pastor suh I can curse from time to time. Behave u fooking self and stop wid this juju thing. U keep mentioning dem spirits dem might like u and cling onto to u. That is some misery u goan dey pan. 

he most certainly is a man of the devil if he sanctions the wickedness of a racist cockroach like u

And I supposes u r not a racist. We are all racist. Not so long ago D2 stated his views on East Indians. He may not think he is a racist, but some Indoes do. Myself, he stated his experience. As for Cain, typical putagee, dem never like Indoes-we confuse them. 

It is not my view. It is the reality. Indians have taboos against race mixing. They hold their women as the sentinels of t heir culture and place on them the burden of defending it by not marrying into other races. 

 

Indians In guyana do not acknowledge the primacy of the state as the cradle of their culture. They think they got it whole cloth from Indian when you and I know we were outcasts there for 6000 years and in guyana we constituted a viable culture that recognized us as full Humans.

 

Go lie to yourself that this is not truth but It would be you deceiving yourself.

Suh, leh me understand this, Are u agreeing wid dem collie bois here, that claim u r a racist?

 

Individual citizens make up a country. If indoes were denied equal citizenship in the PNC era. How do u expect them to react. And this 6000 year story about India caste system has nothing to do with Guyana. Even as u claim to know, people intellect comes from God-suh being a dalit doan mean stupidity. And we did good in Guyana-being dalits and all. Imbeciles doan travel abroad or even think of it. They are captured. Untouchables strive to free demselves. Perhaps too many keep reminding themselves of their plight when in actual fact they slowly progress. Considering all adversities. All the way in Guyana, they are reminded of their subjugations.  

I do not base my views on what the "coolie boys" here believe. Most are mal educated racist dunces who who do not know or acknowledge their origins. Instead most of them think they were born in in the courts of Rajas and  moved to Guyana to save the nation and constitute a viable economy.  This lie denies a cruel  history of subjugation and underclass status existing  for eons that is the real history. It is a pretentious recasting oneself for no other reason than to be cruel  and to lie to yourselves that you are superior. This delusion is presently a cementing force if not a summoning creed in the guyanese Indian culture and is the basis of the insidious racism that exists. Black people  react against the backdrop of this nasty cultural expression since it is fabricated exclusively with them in mind. They have no exclusion or separateness mores in their culture with respect to Indians.

 

Indians were never denied equal citizenship rights under burnham. The first five ministers sworn in under his regime were indians. Indians conspired to make him win, you had the justice party leader uplifting him, Ishmael funding his destabilization efforts etc. He was well supplied with indian intellect to make him viable enough to win the 64 elections.

 

That he anticipated what the PPP would do to his party and people made him take a philosophically backward step and rig the elections. He kept a cadre of kind close to him. He had no policies that directly favored any group over any other. He simply give benefits to his friends and family. That Indians use his era as the basis of their sacred victimization status is simply productive of another lie based on its own belief that black is bad. It was a mass black resistance movement that made it possible to removed him  and his party from office showing he was an equal opportunity oppressor and Black people suffered as well under him as any other. I did not see them standing in different bread lines than indian when flour was scarce.

 

The caste system do in fact have direct bearing on the organization of the Indian Guyanese culture. Indians may not practice castesm overtly or  follow its insidious historical precedents because they need each other in this new world and all of them are of the same sudra untouchable status at home. Caste still permeates the culture in terms of marriages and pretensions to status. You have an example of the AG setting himself apart from Brazzington and Jagdeo on account of caste. He considered t hem chatri which means they were sudras. But Indian castesm expresses itself insidiously as a cultural taboo with respect to black people. They are t he "others" in the society and any mixing of the culture denigrates the offspring to literal outcast status as "dougla" or the excluded bastards. There is no getting around this reality. We have to get over it.

 

I never said being a dalit meaning any thing other than the Gandhian way of saying the oppressed or the outcaste. It was meant to obviate  the lie of being not equal in the society given the native indian Varna classification. One is that way because religion and casted predestined their lot not ones presence in the society as a human being. It is a state of being that is in the modern world and in Guyana where the landscape is not dominated with Brahmanism conception of Sanathan Dharm. Guyana has a peculiar reconstituted Sanathan Dharm where caste does not matter.

 

However, some still rely on the cast structure as stated above while others see the Indian as a Unit and label black people and Amerindian the backward Others. How many times have you seen anyone here call an indian inferior? However, Indians here habitually extol their superior virtues and actually live by the notion they are better than others. I get the cassava bread and piwari leveled at me daily when I came from the plantacrocy ( did not chose my life) and lived a privileged life from the cradle to now. That nasty habit is what I call dalitism, a lie for no reason except self deception.

 

FYI....

 

No such thing as the "dalits" in the sense that some africans have argued that the original Indian was a black dalit from Africa...exist in India. They point to some indigenous tribal group in India to make their point due to the physical appearance of this group of people. This is as fake as Kean Gibson's argument that Indians discriminate against Blacks due to the caste system (keep in mind many Indians are Christians and Muslims who do not fall into this category). This is a myth also as the argument that some light skinned people from Asia called Indo -Aryans invaded India to set up the caste system.  This argument was made was made by a German, but has been proven a myth by Indian scholars...

 

It is customary that broups stick together due to common experience, history, language, etc....this does not make Indians "racist". The same can be said of the Amerindians and Blacks in Guyana.

 

You fools need to learn about your history and stop arguing that Indians are racists...and other as are not. And dont confuse this with the current ethnic problems in Guyana, which obviously contribute the subjective feelings towards "the other". This does not make people racist....nor wanting to vote for someone who they feel will represent their interests....that is the nature of politics the world over.

 

Why dont you knuckleheads address the issue of Black racism against Indians....why is it always the Indian who has to defend and prove himself when they assert themselves???   Carib and Redux, you out there???    

You are silly as a jaybird. The sidis are dalits in the sense of ambedcar's and Gandhi's use of the term. Sidis are indeed Africans who were taken to Indian by the Portuguese and who remained. Africans has nothing to do with the origination of the word which is plainly coined to bring the Sudra and peoples of India tribal belt into one class of oppressed or scheduled caste.

 

Gibson did not invent or highlight the term. It is in the literature and its use here as I contrived it to be as representative of that state of destitution where one's shadow dare not intersect the path of the parasitic caste called Brahmins. It is to highlight the abject ignorance of those who think the term has relevance. It does not. It is a label, an umbrella term used to reference everyone who were misused because of the concoction called caste.

 

If the Aryans are an outside group what set up caste so be it. It permeated the culture of Indians to the core that even today some 600 millions are oppressed on account of this belied. It means it is not an Aryan trait any longer but an acculturated habit that completely dominated the lives of Indians. No German wrote the rig vedas or the manu smiti That is as indian as rama and krishna.

 

Indians  are racists. I grew up in the culture and is as indian as any indian want to be because it is what my fathers family adhered to and what they live and died by.  If you are indian, you hear it everyday or you lie to yourself.

 

As I said, blacks are racist as well. When one looks into t he culture one does not see prohibitions to race mixing from within. One then has to explain it in terms of external explanations. It is because others in the society presume themselves to be better and when push comes to shove that bit is as farcical as denying that black people are universally hated for no other reason than the color of their skin.

 

CaribJ ever says he is better than anyone. He speaks to dispositions he presume is endemic to Indians he terms clannishness. I do not like the term since clans are not of necessity racist but simply designation of family line. Redux just make fun of you fools because he is super smart and write lot of shit simply to push your idiotic buttons.

Indians  are racists. I grew up in the culture and is as indian as any indian want to be because it is what my fathers family adhered to and what they live and died by.  If you are indian, you hear it everyday or you lie to yourself.

 

As I said, blacks are racist as well. When one looks into t he culture one does not see prohibitions to race mixing from within. One then has to explain it in terms of external explanations. It is because others in the society presume themselves to be better and when push comes to shove that bit is as farcical as denying that black people are universally hated for no other reason than the color of their skin.

 

You are a BIGGER ass for throwing this nonsense out here, and expecting that all of us will internalize this skewed rambling of a knucklehead.

 

Racist is a social construct, based on hatred for others, as opposed to ethnicity, which is derived from cultural and environmental experiences.

 

I was addressing the broader issue of how Indians and Africans see themselves based on these racial constructs...it has little to do with ethnicity in general and how one community perceives itself as a group viv a vis the other community. This does not make them racist. Racists are defined as people who have power over others and are intent on deliberately trying to inflict harm on others who they consider not part of their community. We have had out bouts in Guyana but not to this extent where Indos and Afros maintain long-standing hatred for each other on a large scale. Indians and Blacks are not automatically racists simply because of what you heard them say. That is a layman analysis, not one based on credible analysis about race and ethnicity, which are more complex.  

 

Your personal experience is one thing...you may have grown up in a dysfunctional household and your literal interpretation of what was said by those around you has influenced your position.

 

I was also referring to the Dalits who are considered Africans and some people use their racial constructs to create their own interpretations of history to justify their own position,,,erroneously...there have been attempts by some Blacks in Guyana (B.Braithwaite, for one) who argue that Dalits are the root of Indian civilization. This is all bullcrap...like the crappy view of who is a "racist".  

 

V
Last edited by VishMahabir
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:

Carib,

All the BS and petty accusations of who is and who is not a racist aside...I think you raise some important issues regarding Guyanese politics....

 

Here are a few thoughts

 

1) The expression of Indians against "interracial marriages" are based on cultural expressions, not on "racial overtones" as others like Kean Gibson would argue. It is embedded in their culture. I can say that Indian kids who are steeped into this cultural upbringing would reject "intermarriage" with any non-Indian (whites, blacks, others).

 

2) Most Africans in the Caribbean have adopted the European western culture (by force or by choice) just like how the Luckhoos, Ramphals, etc in the old colonial days have. They have been "creolized". As a result, they see Indians as clannish, selfish and are suspicious of them. We know the story of how Indians have been accused of taking African lands and how they depress they wage bargaining power when they landed in the colony. These are all contributing factors to the current racial problems in Guyana.

 

There are some Indians and others who are trying to reclaim their heritage or what was lost during the colonial time or after that. This is more pronounced among young Muslims in Guyana today who are vigorously reclaiming their lost culture. ACDA and other Pan-Africanist groups are also encouraging Africans to do the same. But to answer your question, Indians are concerned about their continuous cultural loss, and are trying to preserve as much as they possibly can. I believe this is a more plausible explanation for the cultural divide between Indians and Africans. Psychologically, I believe Africans have lost so much that its bothers them when Indians try to reclaim and secure what is traditionally theirs.

 

3) On the question of mixed race and their loyalty...I believe again because of Indians willingness to protect their cultural, or what remains of it, they do tend to lock out mixed race in the same way that they do Africans. This would partially explain why politically and culturally "mixed races" have aligned themselves with Africans in the Caribbean, and not with Indians.....     

4) On the question of Moses, the PPP was trying to secure its Indian base...so was the Africans, even though I would argue that the Black electorate was and has strongly been aligned with the PNC, simply because they see that party as representing their interest. Therte was no need then for Granger to embark on the kind of rhetoric Jagdeo was accused of at Babu John. The blacks were already secured, but for the PPP the AFC threaten to take political power from them by the 11% vote.

 

Regarding Moses Indianness, I dont think the PPP had to dwell on this...if I recall it was part of a letter debate in the local papers that raise this issue based on what Moses said. You have your interpretation Carib, but Moses was saying that to make a point to his African brothers in the audience...look at the tape and the speech....I saw it on the internet but cannot remember the link. Moses was simply showing his African brothers and Granger that he was indeed with them...and he was playing politics. He knew that....and Moses is not known as a protector of Indian culture....he wanted the 11% so he can take his seat in parliament. This is how the Indians see him...even more so now.   

 

Just my thoughts on the issues you raise....which I think are important for any discussion on race...the problem is that our politicians in Guyana sweep it under the rug. I think if Africans and Indians can trade their shoes for a few minutes they may begin to understand each other.

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai. FYI...black man (3 ahwe hay included) done seh Burnham practiced institutionalized racism. No retributions. But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling. If Granger went to Cuffy Square and seh APNU is a "black people party" yuh would be shitting yuh pants. No such ting, but we must tolerate Jagdeo "coolie people party" remark. Rewind and come good nex time nah.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Itaname:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:

Carib,

All the BS and petty accusations of who is and who is not a racist aside...I think you raise some important issues regarding Guyanese politics....

 

Here are a few thoughts

 

1) The expression of Indians against "interracial marriages" are based on cultural expressions, not on "racial overtones" as others like Kean Gibson would argue. It is embedded in their culture. I can say that Indian kids who are steeped into this cultural upbringing would reject "intermarriage" with any non-Indian (whites, blacks, others).

 

2) Most Africans in the Caribbean have adopted the European western culture (by force or by choice) just like how the Luckhoos, Ramphals, etc in the old colonial days have. They have been "creolized". As a result, they see Indians as clannish, selfish and are suspicious of them. We know the story of how Indians have been accused of taking African lands and how they depress they wage bargaining power when they landed in the colony. These are all contributing factors to the current racial problems in Guyana.

 

There are some Indians and others who are trying to reclaim their heritage or what was lost during the colonial time or after that. This is more pronounced among young Muslims in Guyana today who are vigorously reclaiming their lost culture. ACDA and other Pan-Africanist groups are also encouraging Africans to do the same. But to answer your question, Indians are concerned about their continuous cultural loss, and are trying to preserve as much as they possibly can. I believe this is a more plausible explanation for the cultural divide between Indians and Africans. Psychologically, I believe Africans have lost so much that its bothers them when Indians try to reclaim and secure what is traditionally theirs.

 

3) On the question of mixed race and their loyalty...I believe again because of Indians willingness to protect their cultural, or what remains of it, they do tend to lock out mixed race in the same way that they do Africans. This would partially explain why politically and culturally "mixed races" have aligned themselves with Africans in the Caribbean, and not with Indians.....     

4) On the question of Moses, the PPP was trying to secure its Indian base...so was the Africans, even though I would argue that the Black electorate was and has strongly been aligned with the PNC, simply because they see that party as representing their interest. Therte was no need then for Granger to embark on the kind of rhetoric Jagdeo was accused of at Babu John. The blacks were already secured, but for the PPP the AFC threaten to take political power from them by the 11% vote.

 

Regarding Moses Indianness, I dont think the PPP had to dwell on this...if I recall it was part of a letter debate in the local papers that raise this issue based on what Moses said. You have your interpretation Carib, but Moses was saying that to make a point to his African brothers in the audience...look at the tape and the speech....I saw it on the internet but cannot remember the link. Moses was simply showing his African brothers and Granger that he was indeed with them...and he was playing politics. He knew that....and Moses is not known as a protector of Indian culture....he wanted the 11% so he can take his seat in parliament. This is how the Indians see him...even more so now.   

 

Just my thoughts on the issues you raise....which I think are important for any discussion on race...the problem is that our politicians in Guyana sweep it under the rug. I think if Africans and Indians can trade their shoes for a few minutes they may begin to understand each other.

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai. FYI...black man (3 ahwe hay included) done seh Burnham practiced institutionalized racism. No retributions. But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling. If Granger went to Cuffy Square and seh APNU is a "black people party" yuh would be shitting yuh pants. No such ting, but we must tolerate Jagdeo "coolie people party" remark. Rewind and come good nex time nah.

Hey Itaname...when they give out the awards for stupidness, like you tek all of them.

 

For the record, I dont know TK, but I have never said that the PPP did not discriminate against Afros. Where have I said that?  

 

Not to defend Jagdeo, but take your blinkers off and you will note that he did not say the PPP is a "coolie" party. He was quoting what others were saying  about the PPP. It will not hold up in court. This does not make it right, but Ram and others have overplayed their hands and people hear what they want to hear...just like others want to give their own interpretation of what Moses presumably said in NY...like you. 

 

You however prove my point....when Indians assert themselves, you get nervous and all kinds of names are thrown against us.."racists", "triumphalists" etc...we here to stay banna...and we hip to your tricky language.   

V
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:

You however prove my point....when Indians assert themselves, you get nervous and all kinds of names are thrown against us.."racists", "triumphalists" etc...we here to stay banna...and we hip to your tricky language.   

Yuh military skill gon be required one day fuh teach antiman like cousin Cobra and Yugi how fuh be "assertive". Suh until den, no need fuh me to be nervous.

FM
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
7 minutes ago

Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by seignet:
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by seignet:

Much bitters for Guyanese tongues. Dey goan be getting white mouth-no food.

the Guyanese people will be fine . . . especially those in Linden u busy wukkin Nigerian obeah pan

As if I doan have any other things to do. Too bad observations with comments are read by fools as well. 

Still screaming for Nigerian juju curses on black Guyanese, while you PRETEND to be a man of God?

The pastor is a man of God. And it is not a good ting to speak ill of such a person. I am not a pastor suh I can curse from time to time. Behave u fooking self and stop wid this juju thing. U keep mentioning dem spirits dem might like u and cling onto to u. That is some misery u goan dey pan. 

he most certainly is a man of the devil if he sanctions the wickedness of a racist cockroach like u

And I supposes u r not a racist. We are all racist. Not so long ago D2 stated his views on East Indians. He may not think he is a racist, but some Indoes do. Myself, he stated his experience. As for Cain, typical putagee, dem never like Indoes-we confuse them. 

It is not my view. It is the reality. Indians have taboos against race mixing. They hold their women as the sentinels of t heir culture and place on them the burden of defending it by not marrying into other races. 

 

Indians In guyana do not acknowledge the primacy of the state as the cradle of their culture. They think they got it whole cloth from Indian when you and I know we were outcasts there for 6000 years and in guyana we constituted a viable culture that recognized us as full Humans.

 

Go lie to yourself that this is not truth but It would be you deceiving yourself.

Suh, leh me understand this, Are u agreeing wid dem collie bois here, that claim u r a racist?

 

Individual citizens make up a country. If indoes were denied equal citizenship in the PNC era. How do u expect them to react. And this 6000 year story about India caste system has nothing to do with Guyana. Even as u claim to know, people intellect comes from God-suh being a dalit doan mean stupidity. And we did good in Guyana-being dalits and all. Imbeciles doan travel abroad or even think of it. They are captured. Untouchables strive to free demselves. Perhaps too many keep reminding themselves of their plight when in actual fact they slowly progress. Considering all adversities. All the way in Guyana, they are reminded of their subjugations.  

I do not base my views on what the "coolie boys" here believe. Most are mal educated racist dunces who who do not know or acknowledge their origins. Instead most of them think they were born in in the courts of Rajas and  moved to Guyana to save the nation and constitute a viable economy.  This lie denies a cruel  history of subjugation and underclass status existing  for eons that is the real history. It is a pretentious recasting oneself for no other reason than to be cruel  and to lie to yourselves that you are superior. This delusion is presently a cementing force if not a summoning creed in the guyanese Indian culture and is the basis of the insidious racism that exists. Black people  react against the backdrop of this nasty cultural expression since it is fabricated exclusively with them in mind. They have no exclusion or separateness mores in their culture with respect to Indians.

 

Indians were never denied equal citizenship rights under burnham. The first five ministers sworn in under his regime were indians. Indians conspired to make him win, you had the justice party leader uplifting him, Ishmael funding his destabilization efforts etc. He was well supplied with indian intellect to make him viable enough to win the 64 elections.

 

That he anticipated what the PPP would do to his party and people made him take a philosophically backward step and rig the elections. He kept a cadre of kind close to him. He had no policies that directly favored any group over any other. He simply give benefits to his friends and family. That Indians use his era as the basis of their sacred victimization status is simply productive of another lie based on its own belief that black is bad. It was a mass black resistance movement that made it possible to removed him  and his party from office showing he was an equal opportunity oppressor and Black people suffered as well under him as any other. I did not see them standing in different bread lines than indian when flour was scarce.

 

The caste system do in fact have direct bearing on the organization of the Indian Guyanese culture. Indians may not practice castesm overtly or  follow its insidious historical precedents because they need each other in this new world and all of them are of the same sudra untouchable status at home. Caste still permeates the culture in terms of marriages and pretensions to status. You have an example of the AG setting himself apart from Brazzington and Jagdeo on account of caste. He considered t hem chatri which means they were sudras. But Indian castesm expresses itself insidiously as a cultural taboo with respect to black people. They are t he "others" in the society and any mixing of the culture denigrates the offspring to literal outcast status as "dougla" or the excluded bastards. There is no getting around this reality. We have to get over it.

 

I never said being a dalit meaning any thing other than the Gandhian way of saying the oppressed or the outcaste. It was meant to obviate  the lie of being not equal in the society given the native indian Varna classification. One is that way because religion and casted predestined their lot not ones presence in the society as a human being. It is a state of being that is in the modern world and in Guyana where the landscape is not dominated with Brahmanism conception of Sanathan Dharm. Guyana has a peculiar reconstituted Sanathan Dharm where caste does not matter.

 

However, some still rely on the cast structure as stated above while others see the Indian as a Unit and label black people and Amerindian the backward Others. How many times have you seen anyone here call an indian inferior? However, Indians here habitually extol their superior virtues and actually live by the notion they are better than others. I get the cassava bread and piwari leveled at me daily when I came from the plantacrocy ( did not chose my life) and lived a privileged life from the cradle to now. That nasty habit is what I call dalitism, a lie for no reason except self deception.

 

FYI....

 

No such thing as the "dalits" in the sense that some africans have argued that the original Indian was a black dalit from Africa...exist in India. They point to some indigenous tribal group in India to make their point due to the physical appearance of this group of people. This is as fake as Kean Gibson's argument that Indians discriminate against Blacks due to the caste system (keep in mind many Indians are Christians and Muslims who do not fall into this category). This is a myth also as the argument that some light skinned people from Asia called Indo -Aryans invaded India to set up the caste system.  This argument was made was made by a German, but has been proven a myth by Indian scholars...

 

It is customary that broups stick together due to common experience, history, language, etc....this does not make Indians "racist". The same can be said of the Amerindians and Blacks in Guyana.

 

You fools need to learn about your history and stop arguing that Indians are racists...and other as are not. And dont confuse this with the current ethnic problems in Guyana, which obviously contribute the subjective feelings towards "the other". This does not make people racist....nor wanting to vote for someone who they feel will represent their interests....that is the nature of politics the world over.

 

Why dont you knuckleheads address the issue of Black racism against Indians....why is it always the Indian who has to defend and prove himself when they assert themselves???   Carib and Redux, you out there???    

You are silly as a jaybird. The sidis are dalits in the sense of ambedcar's and Gandhi's use of the term. Sidis are indeed Africans who were taken to Indian by the Portuguese and who remained. Africans has nothing to do with the origination of the word which is plainly coined to bring the Sudra and peoples of India tribal belt into one class of oppressed or scheduled caste.

 

Gibson did not invent or highlight the term. It is in the literature and its use here as I contrived it to be as representative of that state of destitution where one's shadow dare not intersect the path of the parasitic caste called Brahmins. It is to highlight the abject ignorance of those who think the term has relevance. It does not. It is a label, an umbrella term used to reference everyone who were misused because of the concoction called caste.

 

If the Aryans are an outside group what set up caste so be it. It permeated the culture of Indians to the core that even today some 600 millions are oppressed on account of this belied. It means it is not an Aryan trait any longer but an acculturated habit that completely dominated the lives of Indians. No German wrote the rig vedas or the manu smiti That is as indian as rama and krishna.

 

Indians  are racists. I grew up in the culture and is as indian as any indian want to be because it is what my fathers family adhered to and what they live and died by.  If you are indian, you hear it everyday or you lie to yourself.

 

As I said, blacks are racist as well. When one looks into t he culture one does not see prohibitions to race mixing from within. One then has to explain it in terms of external explanations. It is because others in the society presume themselves to be better and when push comes to shove that bit is as farcical as denying that black people are universally hated for no other reason than the color of their skin.

 

CaribJ ever says he is better than anyone. He speaks to dispositions he presume is endemic to Indians he terms clannishness. I do not like the term since clans are not of necessity racist but simply designation of family line. Redux just make fun of you fools because he is super smart and write lot of shit simply to push your idiotic buttons.

Indians  are racists. I grew up in the culture and is as indian as any indian want to be because it is what my fathers family adhered to and what they live and died by.  If you are indian, you hear it everyday or you lie to yourself.

 

As I said, blacks are racist as well. When one looks into t he culture one does not see prohibitions to race mixing from within. One then has to explain it in terms of external explanations. It is because others in the society presume themselves to be better and when push comes to shove that bit is as farcical as denying that black people are universally hated for no other reason than the color of their skin.

 

You are a BIGGER ass for throwing this nonsense out here, and expecting that all of us will internalize this skewed rambling of a knucklehead.

 

Racist is a social construct, based on hatred for others, as opposed to ethnicity, which is derived from cultural and environmental experiences.

 

I was addressing the broader issue of how Indians and Africans see themselves based on these racial constructs...it has little to do with ethnicity in general and how one community perceives itself as a group viv a vis the other community. This does not make them racist. Racists are defined as people who have power over others and are intent on deliberately trying to inflict harm on others who they consider not part of their community. We have had out bouts in Guyana but not to this extent where Indos and Afros maintain long-standing hatred for each other on a large scale. Indians and Blacks are not automatically racists simply because of what you heard them say. That is a layman analysis, not one based on credible analysis about race and ethnicity, which are more complex.  

 

Your personal experience is one thing...you may have grown up in a dysfunctional household and your literal interpretation of what was said by those around you has influenced your position.

 

I was also referring to the Dalits who are considered Africans and some people use their racial constructs to create their own interpretations of history to justify their own position,,,erroneously...there have been attempts by some Blacks in Guyana (B.Braithwaite, for one) who argue that Dalits are the root of Indian civilization. This is all bullcrap...like the crappy view of who is a "racist".  

 

You are arguing against your own fabrication. I never said racism was not hatred or a social construct and I did not say it was synonymous with ethnicity in technical usages.  I might add that every reference on census forms or various official references does refer to ethnicity. I doubt I used the term ethnicity anywhere in reference to race so that is your fabrication.

 

Is stated more often than not that race is a non informational term. It has no relevance that points to biology and is indeed a poor substitute for ethnicity which was invented specifically in the latter part of the 20th century to better address group identity and Culture without confusing it with the term "race"

 

The idea that racism has relevance only if  it  come with the power to affect other in negative ways is also an anachronism.  Racism is always a cobbled together rationalization scheme of the ignorant to fabricate the ideas regarding identity and sense of self as opposed to others who they feel they are better than. The red neck has no power to affect any since he/she lives in similar destitution and oppression as those they hate  but  they hold pernicious racist opinions as a means to compare and contrast in negative ways. His power can only come in the random violence against another but that is not power over a group but simple crude criminality

 

Sorry, My daddy married an amerindian and most of his 13 sisters married other races from black to white so any dysfunction did not come from inside the family but from seeing and experiencing the culture from which it originated

 

I do not care how you use the term dalit. I use it as it is intended as an umbrella term for the oppressed and destitution. To be a dalit means one exists in a state and society that sees one as "lesser than them"  I do not care who argued what. You have my words here. Argue to that. I stated in precise terms what I mean by racism as expressed in Guyana and in guyanese culture examples of which you already know fully well unless you are deaf and dumb and blind.

 

FM
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Racist is a social construct, based on hatred for others, as opposed to ethnicity, which is derived from cultural and environmental experiences.

 

I was addressing the broader issue of how Indians and Africans see themselves based on these racial constructs...it has little to do with ethnicity in general and how one community perceives itself as a group viv a vis the other community. This does not make them racist. Racists are defined as people who have power over others and are intent on deliberately trying to inflict harm on others who they consider not part of their community. We have had out bouts in Guyana but not to this extent where Indos and Afros maintain long-standing hatred for each other on a large scale. Indians and Blacks are not automatically racists simply because of what you heard them say. That is a layman analysis, not one based on credible analysis about race and ethnicity, which are more complex.  

 

 

Racist is a social construct, based on hatred for others, as opposed to ethnicity, which is derived from cultural and environmental experiences.

 

Intelligently put.

 

I think there are those with hard-wired ideas of Guyana's political and racial history who miss this elemental point, and clearly miss how Guyanese of all races interact with each other.

 

Kari
Originally Posted by Itaname:

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai. FYI...black man (3 ahwe hay included) done seh Burnham practiced institutionalized racism. No retributions. But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling. If Granger went to Cuffy Square and seh APNU is a "black people party" yuh would be shitting yuh pants. No such ting, but we must tolerate Jagdeo "coolie people party" remark. Rewind and come good nex time nah.

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai.

 

But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling.

 

Itee, what role do these two statements have in a response to what VshMahabir wrote? You cannot say that Indians on this Boeard who do not support the PPP and even some who do are not warmed to the idea of Jagdeo staking all coolie people as PPP supporters. If he wants to make the PPP a coolie-only party that his lookout. It will not be a party of the total of all coolies. All-coolie but not of all coolies. But stay on point about what Vish wrote and you'll begin to have an educated view on race in Guyana.

 

Kari
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
 

 

Carib,

All the BS and petty accusations of who is and who is not a racist aside...I think you raise some important issues regarding Guyanese politics....

 

Here are a few thoughts

 

1) The expression of Indians against "interracial marriages" are based on cultural expressions, not on "racial overtones" as others like Kean Gibson would argue. It is embedded in their culture. I can say that Indian kids who are steeped into this cultural upbringing would reject "intermarriage" with any non-Indian (whites, blacks, others).

 

2) Most Africans in the Caribbean have adopted the European western culture (by force or by choice) just like how the Luckhoos, Ramphals, etc in the old colonial days have. They have been "creolized". As a result, they see Indians as clannish, selfish and are suspicious of them. We know the story of how Indians have been accused of taking African lands and how they depress they wage bargaining power when they landed in the colony. These are all contributing factors to the current racial problems in Guyana.

 

There are some Indians and others who are trying to reclaim their heritage or what was lost during the colonial time or after that. This is more pronounced among young Muslims in Guyana today who are vigorously reclaiming their lost culture. ACDA and other Pan-Africanist groups are also encouraging Africans to do the same. But to answer your question, Indians are concerned about their continuous cultural loss, and are trying to preserve as much as they possibly can. I believe this is a more plausible explanation for the cultural divide between Indians and Africans. Psychologically, I believe Africans have lost so much that its bothers them when Indians try to reclaim and secure what is traditionally theirs.

 

3) On the question of mixed race and their loyalty...I believe again because of Indians willingness to protect their cultural, or what remains of it, they do tend to lock out mixed race in the same way that they do Africans. This would partially explain why politically and culturally "mixed races" have aligned themselves with Africans in the Caribbean, and not with Indians.....     

4) On the question of Moses, the PPP was trying to secure its Indian base...so was the Africans, even though I would argue that the Black electorate was and has strongly been aligned with the PNC, simply because they see that party as representing their interest. Therte was no need then for Granger to embark on the kind of rhetoric Jagdeo was accused of at Babu John. The blacks were already secured, but for the PPP the AFC threaten to take political power from them by the 11% vote.

 

Regarding Moses Indianness, I dont think the PPP had to dwell on this...if I recall it was part of a letter debate in the local papers that raise this issue based on what Moses said. You have your interpretation Carib, but Moses was saying that to make a point to his African brothers in the audience...look at the tape and the speech....I saw it on the internet but cannot remember the link. Moses was simply showing his African brothers and Granger that he was indeed with them...and he was playing politics. He knew that....and Moses is not known as a protector of Indian culture....he wanted the 11% so he can take his seat in parliament. This is how the Indians see him...even more so now.   

 

Just my thoughts on the issues you raise....which I think are important for any discussion on race...the problem is that our politicians in Guyana sweep it under the rug. I think if Africans and Indians can trade their shoes for a few minutes they may begin to understand each other.

 

 

1.  Granger did NOT have a lock on the black vote.  Evidence of this is the DECLINE of the PNC vote even though the African vote has remained the same, and the mixed vote has increased. Many had ceased voting, thinking that the PNC was hopeless in protecting them against the assaults against them by the PPP.

 

So Granger had as much work to galvanize the African and mixed vote as did the PPP have to do to galvanize the Indian vote.  He did NOT use ethnically exclusive language to do so.  In fact at his majority African events the multi cultural aspects of Guyana was portrayed, meaning that he did NOT fear backlash from blacks when visibly IndoGUYANESE culture was being portrayed.

 

2.  Most of the rest of your argument makes my point.  Africans do not reject mixed people, provided that mixed people do not portray an attitude of superiority towards blacks.  If these mixed people decide to identify as black then they are accepted as black.

 

This doesn't occur with Indians.  So if Indians reject others by virtue of these others not being Indian, even when they might be 50% Indian, then why do you think that non Indians, including many of part Indian origin will accept Indians.

 

If an Indian refuses to accept an African, then why will an African trust that Indian into a leadership slot where  that Indian then will determine who will get hired, who promoted, who will get contract awards, etc. If the Indians sees every one else as the outsider then obviously they will not be inclusive to these others.  Obviously they will then be rejected by Africans as being fit to lead.

 

 

There was an incident in South G/T where PNC supporters feared that the PPP was trying to rig the  election. Moses was sent to pacify the crowd.  They listened to him.  I very much doubt whether an African who was not part of the PPP, but was  with some  other party would have been accepted in the way that Moses was at a very time when racial paranoia became evident.

 

Afro Guyanese exclude those who they perceive excludes them because they are black.   Their ethnic insecurities are in response to external factors.

 

 

Based on what YOU say, Indians will exclude blacks EVEN if blacks give them no reason to.   So why will blacks ever trust Indians in positions of power?

 

Excluding people on the bases of race is racist!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
 

You are a BIGGER ass for throwing this nonsense out here, and expecting that all of us will internalize this skewed rambling of a knucklehead.

 

Racist is a social construct, based on hatred for others, as opposed to ethnicity, which is derived from cultural and environmental experiences.

 

I was addressing the broader issue of how Indians and Africans see themselves based on these racial constructs...it has little to do with ethnicity in general and how one community perceives itself as a group viv a vis the other community. This does not make them racist. Racists are defined as people who have power over others and are intent on deliberately trying to inflict harm on others who they consider not part of their community. We have had out bouts in Guyana but not to this extent where Indos and Afros maintain long-standing hatred for each other on a large scale. Indians and Blacks are not automatically racists simply because of what you heard them say. That is a layman analysis, not one based on credible analysis about race and ethnicity, which are more complex.  

 

Your personal experience is one thing...you may have grown up in a dysfunctional household and your literal interpretation of what was said by those around you has influenced your position.

 

I was also referring to the Dalits who are considered Africans and some people use their racial constructs to create their own interpretations of history to justify their own position,,,erroneously...there have been attempts by some Blacks in Guyana (B.Braithwaite, for one) who argue that Dalits are the root of Indian civilization. This is all bullcrap...like the crappy view of who is a "racist".  

 

Racism is defined as feeling superior towards another race, feeling hatred towards another race, and excluding people because of their race.

 

YOU gave examples of how Indians exclude.  Others can add numerous examples of Indian exclusion of blacks from employment, promotions, contracts and business opportunities on occasion when Indians had the power to do so.  Indians HAD THE POWER to do so between 1992 and 2015 when a cabal of Indo elites in the PPP AND the private sector conspired to so.

 

And NO blacks are NOT jealous of Indians because we do NOT think that we have "lost" our culture.  WE do not see ourselves as Africans, but as people of African DESCENT.  Most Afro Guyanese are very proud of the diversity (in its many manifestations) that being GUYANESE is about.

 

Its a pity that you reduce to NOTHING the richness of Guyanese culture.  Understand that Asian Indians laugh at Caribbean Indians when they attempt to "reconnect" to Indian culture.  Cultures evolve and most Caribbean Indians seek either a long disappeared 19thC culture of India, or a fantasy notion concocted by Bollywood!

 

History is history and accept the fact that YOU are as much a creature of westernization as much as the rest of us are!  Indo Guyanese have numerous opportunities to integrate into an Asian Indian culture in NY.  I see no evidence that this is happening, and in fact younger Caribbean Indians seem more inclined to mix with HISPANICS than they are with Asian Indians!!

FM

Our culture and Dharma are intact, unlike some who have NONE left.

 

 

42nd annual Diwali motorcades promise to be grand

Diwali 2As Guyanese prepare to celebrate Diwali 2015 on November 11, the Guyana Hindu Dharmic Sabha has organised eight spectacular Deepavali motorcades across the country.

This will be the 42nd year for the motorcades. Thousands of Guyanese will line the streets and converge at the various venues to enjoy the dazzling spectacle which ushers in the Festival of Lights.

There will be gorgeously bedecked representations of Mother Lakshmi and other depictions from the Scriptures, a kaleidoscope of lights, devotional music, spectacular cultural programmes and much more.

Diwali 3The first motorcade will be held on Friday, November 6 at the Anna Regina Market Tarmac, Essequibo Coast, and on Saturday, November 7, motorcades will be held at the Oceanview Mandir Compound, West Coast Demerara and at the Diamond Market Tarmac, East Bank Demerara.

On Sunday, November 8, four motorcades will be held in Berbice. In West Coast Berbice, the motorcade will converge at the Bath Community Centre Ground. In East Berbice, the floats will assemble at Main and Vryheid Streets, opposite Church View Gift Shop and proceed to the Rose Hall Community Centre ground, Canje.

Shreyasi Bhattacharjee

Shreyasi Bhattacharjee

On the Upper Corentyne, floats will make their way from Crabwood Creek and Number 36 Village to the Tagore High School ground. The Central Corentyne Praant’s motorcade will move from Bush Lot, Corentyne and Number 1 Village and converge at the Port Mourant Community Centre ground.

All of the motorcades will culminate with grand cultural programmes and presentation of prizes beginning at 19:00h.

The spectacular Georgetown/East Coast Demerara motorcade will be held on Tuesday, November 10, and is often described as the single largest event on the Guyanese calendar and this year’s motorcade promises to be exciting as ever.

The fabulously decorated floats will assemble at the Shri Krishna Mandir, Campbellville, Georgetown, from 18:00h and will move West along Campbell Avenue into Sandy Babb Street, North into JB Singh Road and East onto Seawall Road, to the La Bonne Intention Community (LBI) Centre ground, East Coast Demerara. More than 20 floats have already registered their participation.

Bishakh Jyoti

Bishakh Jyoti

At the LBI Community Centre ground, the stage programme starts at 19:00h with special performances by ZEETV’s Saregamapa finalists Bishakh Jyoti and Shreyasi Bhattacharjee. In addition, the Dharmic Nritya Sangh, Sookrane Boodhoo, Rekha Singh, Artie Sookhai, Mona Gowkarran and others are slated to perform.

In excess of $3 million in cash and trophies will be presented to the winning floats in the various categories. Prizes will also be given for the most outstanding mandirs in each category and for the best overall designed float.

Admission to all motorcades is free and no alcohol is allowed.

Share Button

 

FM
Originally Posted by Itaname:
 

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai. FYI...black man (3 ahwe hay included) done seh Burnham practiced institutionalized racism. No retributions. But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling. If Granger went to Cuffy Square and seh APNU is a "black people party" yuh would be shitting yuh pants. No such ting, but we must tolerate Jagdeo "coolie people party" remark. Rewind and come good nex time nah.

 

 

Poor VishMahabir doesn't understand that he is saying the same thing that I am saying. Indians do not exclude because of hatred.  They exclude any one who is not Indian.

 

What he doesn't seem to understand is in a multi ethnic nation like Guyana THIS DOES NOT WORK.  Why will I accept an Indian to lead if I know that an Indian will not be fair to me when I deserve a job opportunity, promotion, contracts or a loan.  Rejected for no reason than that I am NOT Indian.

 

Funny.  If an African were to reject an Indian because he is NOT African VishMahabir will LOUDLY condemn this, as indeed he should.

 

You see in his world Indians can exclude others, but not themselves be excluded by others.  Kari will find some reason to ignore what VishM has said, and imply that my comments are racist.

 

VishMahabir many thanks for FINALLY accepting my argument, even though you didn't think that you did.  You VALIDATE what I have said.  Where you are WRONG is when you claim that others do.  Had this been true Portuguese would have been best buddies with Brazilians.  They ignored them.

 

Creoles (Africans, mixed and Portuguese) have one notion of what it means to be Guyanese.  Indians have another.   The two definitions don't jell, which is where the conflicts arise.

FM
Originally Posted by Kari:
 

I think there are those with hard-wired ideas of Guyana's political and racial history who miss this elemental point, and clearly miss how Guyanese of all races interact with each other.

 

And as I said Kari rationalizes VishMahabir's contention that Indians have a right to exclude others of different ethnicities (when people say race they usually refer to ethnicity).

 

I wonder if Granger says from henceforth "black man rule" and only blacks will get anything, because blacks have a right t6o favor their own ethnic group, how you all would react?

 

Funny when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

Now run along and justify Indian ethnic exclusion.  VishM has bolstered what we have being saying.  FINALLY the truth, though he will be shocked at this.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Kari:
But stay on point about what Vish wrote and you'll begin to have an educated view on race in Guyana.

 

I stayed on point.  VM stated that Indians have a right to exclude blacks and blacks are jealous because we have no culture.

 

Danyael/Stormborn has contended that this is the Indian mind set all along.

 

We are grateful that VM has admitted to it, unwittingly maybe, as his ethnocentricity and latent disdain for blacks landed him into this.

 

Also admit to this.

 

1.  The PPP ran a campaign of ethnic exclusion and extreme demonization of blacks.  95% of Indians bought into this.

 

2.  APNU/AFC ran a campaign of national unity and ethnic INCLUSION, and at all their campaign events, the diversity of the Guyanese identity was on display, even in locations where 99% of the crowds were African.  They won almost 100% of the African and the overwhelming majority of the mixed vote.

 

 

THIS shows how the majority of each ethnic group (and those of mixed ancestry) view their ethnicity and how it relates to their national identity of being a Guyanese!  For the PPP its INDIAN, for APNU/AFC its GUYANESE!

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by Itaname:

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai. FYI...black man (3 ahwe hay included) done seh Burnham practiced institutionalized racism. No retributions. But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling. If Granger went to Cuffy Square and seh APNU is a "black people party" yuh would be shitting yuh pants. No such ting, but we must tolerate Jagdeo "coolie people party" remark. Rewind and come good nex time nah.

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai.

 

But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling.

 

Itee, what role do these two statements have in a response to what VshMahabir wrote? You cannot say that Indians on this Boeard who do not support the PPP and even some who do are not warmed to the idea of Jagdeo staking all coolie people as PPP supporters. If he wants to make the PPP a coolie-only party that his lookout. It will not be a party of the total of all coolies. All-coolie but not of all coolies. But stay on point about what Vish wrote and you'll begin to have an educated view on race in Guyana.

 

Banna, sometimes yuh duz lef meh shaking meh head. I'll break it down fuh yuh.

 

1. Maybe yuh  miss this lil tidbit from yuh jihaji friend Vish. "Psychologically, I believe Africans have lost so much that its bothers them when Indians try to reclaim and secure what is traditionally theirs." Ravi would be proud.

 

2. I referred to the Hindutva types. Indians who do not tow the Hindutva line are considered sellouts, "house slaves", and a "weaker" type of Indian by the Ravi and VishMahabir types. Ask the dharma brahmin fuh explain it to yuh.

 

3. I don't know what you're yabbering about in the rest of your post. Never referenced or implied that Indians agreed with Jagdeo. The former president was bold and barefaced in his racism at bbu john and that is my point.

 

If you think VishMahabir has an "educated view on race in Guyana" then banna, yuh seriously delusional. He's just a verbose bigot.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
 

2) Most Africans in the Caribbean have adopted the European western culture (by force or by choice) just like how the Luckhoos, Ramphals, etc in the old colonial days have. They have been "creolized".

This is evidence of YOUR own clannishness.

 

You are also creolized, because by virtue of being Guyanese YOUR culture represents the interface of various groups which live in Guyana.

 

Creole culture evolved out of the interface between the Indigenous people, Europeans and Africans.  The arrival of peoples from Asia and the Middle East added further dimension to it.

 

A range and continuums of Caribbean cultures do exist.  We all play along the various manifestations of it. An African eating a roti, or an Indian dancing to soca, or speaking CREOLESE (a dialect which was developed by Africans when forced to exist within European linguistic systems) is evidence of it.

 

NONE of us are culturally pure.  NONE of us will be accepted by Europeans as practitioners of a purely European culture.  Just ask the West Indian migrants to the UK of the culture shock that they experienced on arrival in the late 40s.  And even more the culture shock of the English when they encountered Caribbean blacks for the first time!

FM
Originally Posted by Itaname:
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by Itaname:

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai. FYI...black man (3 ahwe hay included) done seh Burnham practiced institutionalized racism. No retributions. But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling. If Granger went to Cuffy Square and seh APNU is a "black people party" yuh would be shitting yuh pants. No such ting, but we must tolerate Jagdeo "coolie people party" remark. Rewind and come good nex time nah.

Ravi Dev indoctrinating yuh good and prapa bai.

 

But the way alyuh hindutva types continue to treat people like TK and other indians willing to admit indians practice the same is telling.

 

Itee, what role do these two statements have in a response to what VshMahabir wrote? You cannot say that Indians on this Boeard who do not support the PPP and even some who do are not warmed to the idea of Jagdeo staking all coolie people as PPP supporters. If he wants to make the PPP a coolie-only party that his lookout. It will not be a party of the total of all coolies. All-coolie but not of all coolies. But stay on point about what Vish wrote and you'll begin to have an educated view on race in Guyana.

 

Banna, sometimes yuh duz lef meh shaking meh head. I'll break it down fuh yuh.

 

1. Maybe yuh  miss this lil tidbit from yuh jihaji friend Vish. "Psychologically, I believe Africans have lost so much that its bothers them when Indians try to reclaim and secure what is traditionally theirs." Ravi would be proud.

 

2. I referred to the Hindutva types. Indians who do not tow the Hindutva line are considered sellouts, "house slaves", and a "weaker" type of Indian by the Ravi and VishMahabir types. Ask the dharma brahmin fuh explain it to yuh.

 

3. I don't know what you're yabbering about in the rest of your post. Never referenced or implied that Indians agreed with Jagdeo. The former president was bold and barefaced in his racism at bbu john and that is my point.

 

If you think VishMahabir has an "educated view on race in Guyana" then banna, yuh seriously delusional. He's just a verbose bigot.

 

 

Kari didn't miss it.

 

As VM implied, he cannot reject the central thesis of a fellow Indian, because he is also Indian.  But he thinks that we are too foolish to miss this.

FM
Originally Posted by Itaname:
"Psychologically, I believe Africans have lost so much that its bothers them when Indians try to reclaim and secure what is traditionally theirs." Ravi would be proud.

 

 

I will highlight this reference of your's to VM's post, as shifty Kari will try to avoid this part.  If he agrees with VM he agrees with his assessment of blacks.

 

Funny thing is that Caribbean Indians are indeed identifiable to many from outside, including but NOT limited to Asian Indians, by the clear "Caribbean" influences in their behavior.  I remember watching a PBS documentary on Asians in NY. They spent a few minutes in RH and the fact that they used reggae sounds I'm sure was intentional.  Almost 200 years living alongside blacks has left its mark.

 

VM can claim that Indians are, or trying to be "culturally pure".  Guess what a quick listen to Bollywood sound tracks suggests that even in India this isn't the goal.

 

VM reveals much of why Indians and Africans don't trust each other.

 

Africans define ourselves in who we are TODAY. We do NOT wish for some mythical reconstruction of who we were.  We see ourselves as a CARIBBEAN people, with all the diverse cultural influences which this implies.  Those of us from Trinidad and Guyana are indeed proud that our culture is richer and more interesting than the blander, more culturally monolithic Barbados.

 

Indians (according to VM) define themselves in relation to India, even though 2 centuries has transformed both them and India, so the likelihood of regaining being a truly "Indian" people is all but impossible.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by yuji22:

Our culture and Dharma are intact, unlike some who have NONE left.

 

 

42nd annual Diwali motorcades promise to be grand

Diwali 2As Guyanese prepare to celebrate Diwali 2015 on November 11, the Guyana Hindu Dharmic Sabha has organised eight spectacular Deepavali motorcades across the country.

This will be the 42nd year for the motorcades. Thousands of Guyanese will line the streets and converge at the various venues to enjoy the dazzling spectacle which ushers in the Festival of Lights.

There will be gorgeously bedecked representations of Mother Lakshmi and other depictions from the Scriptures, a kaleidoscope of lights, devotional music, spectacular cultural programmes and much more.

Diwali 3The first motorcade will be held on Friday, November 6 at the Anna Regina Market Tarmac, Essequibo Coast, and on Saturday, November 7, motorcades will be held at the Oceanview Mandir Compound, West Coast Demerara and at the Diamond Market Tarmac, East Bank Demerara.

On Sunday, November 8, four motorcades will be held in Berbice. In West Coast Berbice, the motorcade will converge at the Bath Community Centre Ground. In East Berbice, the floats will assemble at Main and Vryheid Streets, opposite Church View Gift Shop and proceed to the Rose Hall Community Centre ground, Canje.

Shreyasi Bhattacharjee

Shreyasi Bhattacharjee

On the Upper Corentyne, floats will make their way from Crabwood Creek and Number 36 Village to the Tagore High School ground. The Central Corentyne Praant’s motorcade will move from Bush Lot, Corentyne and Number 1 Village and converge at the Port Mourant Community Centre ground.

All of the motorcades will culminate with grand cultural programmes and presentation of prizes beginning at 19:00h.

The spectacular Georgetown/East Coast Demerara motorcade will be held on Tuesday, November 10, and is often described as the single largest event on the Guyanese calendar and this year’s motorcade promises to be exciting as ever.

The fabulously decorated floats will assemble at the Shri Krishna Mandir, Campbellville, Georgetown, from 18:00h and will move West along Campbell Avenue into Sandy Babb Street, North into JB Singh Road and East onto Seawall Road, to the La Bonne Intention Community (LBI) Centre ground, East Coast Demerara. More than 20 floats have already registered their participation.

Bishakh Jyoti

Bishakh Jyoti

At the LBI Community Centre ground, the stage programme starts at 19:00h with special performances by ZEETV’s Saregamapa finalists Bishakh Jyoti and Shreyasi Bhattacharjee. In addition, the Dharmic Nritya Sangh, Sookrane Boodhoo, Rekha Singh, Artie Sookhai, Mona Gowkarran and others are slated to perform.

In excess of $3 million in cash and trophies will be presented to the winning floats in the various categories. Prizes will also be given for the most outstanding mandirs in each category and for the best overall designed float.

Admission to all motorcades is free and no alcohol is allowed.

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This would be good...except you had to mess it up with a potshot at others! I am sure your culture did not teach you to insult others while bigging up your identity...or did it?

FM
Last edited by Former Member

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