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FM
Former Member

Appointment of GECOM Chair is invalid – Ramkarran

 Former Speaker of the National Assembly and political commentator, Ralph Ramkarran has noted that President David Granger’s unilateral appointment of 84-year-old retired Judge, Justice James Patterson as Chairman of the Guyana Elections Commission (GECOM) is “void.”

In his weekly column published in the Stabroek News on Sunday, October 22, 2017, Ramkarran made it clear that President can only make such a unilateral decision if Opposition Leader, Bharrat Jagdeo fails to submit a list of nominees.

Jagdeo had provided three lists to the President, each containing 6 nominees for the post; however, the President rejected all three lists on the grounds that the nominees were not “fit and proper.”

President David Granger presents the Instrument of Appointment as Chairman of the Guyana Elections Commission (GECOM) to Justice Patterson at State House

But according to Ramkarran, the Constitution provides that “if the Leader of the Opposition fails to submit a list as provided for,” only then can the President proceed unilaterally to make an appointment of a judge, former judge or person qualified to be a judge.

“My understanding is that the Leader of the Opposition has submitted a list. The list was amended twice by the substitution of names. If so, the Leader of the Opposition has not failed to submit a list and the President’s appointment is therefore void. But I’m jumping the gun. The talented lawyers associated with the opposition will no doubt examine the matter in more detail,” the former House Speaker opined.

Granger’s decision to appoint an octogenarian to the post has received widespread criticism from civil society, the private sector, the legal fraternity, political commentators and the main opposition party – the People’s Progressive Party Civic (PPP/C). The PPP/C plans to legally challenge the appointment and has since adopted a stance of non-cooperation with the government.

Meanwhile, Ramkarran in his column noted that of the last six names submitted, two persons immediately leaped out for consideration – Retired Major General Joe Singh was the highly respected Chief of Staff of the Guyana Defence Force and was a former Chair of the Elections Commission for the 2002 elections, which were credibly held and Attorney at Law Teni Housty is a well-respected, well-qualified, senior, experienced, lawyer and former President of the Guyana Bar Association.

“Many of the other nominees are also well qualified but no one can seriously assert that the political persuasion of either of these gentlemen, if any, would influence their decisions. Many observers expected, or at least hoped, that President Granger would find suitable persons from the last six,” Ramkarran noted.

He opined that the PPP should have mounted a constitutional challenge after the President had rejected the first six names.

“The results of the case which was filed after the Leader of the Opposition had submitted a second set of names, showed that it could have been possible to obtain an order from the court directing the President to choose a name from that first six.

“The Leader of the Opposition having submitted two further sets of six names, each at the invitation of the President, for understandable reasons, has deprived him of the opportunity of having an order in relation to the first six names.”

According to the former House Speaker, the victim of rigged elections in Guyana since 1968 has been the people of Guyana, “but more specifically, the PPP and its supporters.”

“The deep fears of the PPP arising from the initial impasse over the selection of the Chair and now the eventual breakdown of the process must be instilling deep fear and anguish over the future and the prospect of being rigged out of office for another twenty-five years.”

Ramkarram said that democracy and free and fair elections are the foundation of social and economic progress, the basis on which good governance will be built and corruption eliminated.

He concluded that the government is under an obligation to demonstrate its fidelity to the democratic process in order to sustain the confidence of the Guyanese people.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Homme posted:

Ralph, stop playing to the gallery and parse the qualifier "not unacceptable to the President" and come again please.

You know better

You have failed to paraphrase the phrase in its entirety, hence losing the meaning of its intention.

Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Homme posted:

Ralph, stop playing to the gallery and parse the qualifier "not unacceptable to the President" and come again please.

You know better

You have failed to paraphrase the phrase in its entirety, hence losing the meaning of its intention.

Art. 161.2 as amended:

"Subject to the provisions of paragraph (4), the Chairman of the Elections Commission shall be a person who holds or who has held office as a judge of a court having unlimited jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters in some part of the Commonwealth or a court having jurisdiction in appeals from any such court or who is qualified to be appointed as any such judge, or any other fit and proper person, to be appointed by the President from a list of six persons, not unacceptable to the President, submitted by the Minority Leader after consultation with the political parties represented in the National Assembly, other than the party to which the President belongs:
Provided that if the Minority Leader fails to submit a list as provided[,] for the President shall appoint a person who holds or has held office as a judge of a court having unlimited jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters in some part of the Commonwealth or a court having jurisdiction in appeals from any such court or who is qualified to be appointed as any such judge."

_____________________________________

Is this better?

FM
Last edited by Former Member

Ralph Ramkarran is a former speaker of the national assembly. If what he's saying is right or wrong, it's worth reading since he has indept knowledge of the constitution.

I feel the same as Amral. Everyone takes turn to sound off but is doesn't mean squat to Granger.

FM

[Quote] According to the former House Speaker, the victim of rigged elections in Guyana since 1968 has been the people of Guyana, "but more specifically, the PPP and its supporters."[Unquote]

The international community had to hold Hoyte by his balls to get him to hold a transparent election and yet it was a few years late due to typical PNC style delay tactic. 

Then the PPP took over in 1992. They held elections 5 years later in 1997, 4 years later in 2001, 5 years later in 2006, 5 years later in 2011 and 4 years later in 2015 so Guyanese began taking that for granted and became restless. So they went back to the old PNC rigging wickedness. 

FM

2015, May elections.

Difference was about 5,000 votes between the two major political groups.

In any democratic country, there is an immediate recount when the difference in so small, with members present from each political groups.

Thus far, the recount has not been done.

FM
Demerara_Guy posted:

2015, May elections.

Difference was about 5,000 votes between the two major political groups.

In any democratic country, there is an immediate recount when the difference in so small, with members present from each political groups.

Thus far, the recount has not been done.

So, incumbent PPP rigged the election to lose?

FM
Last edited by Former Member

The Minority Leader of the Opposition did provide a list of candidates.

The president ignored the list without giving reasons -- the constitution requires that the president must give reasons for rejecting names -- and unilaterally named a person to GECOM.

FM
Demerara_Guy posted:

The president ignored the list without giving reasons -- the constitution requires that the president must give reasons for rejecting names

Please cite, thanks

FM
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:

 

So they went back to the old PNC rigging wickedness. 

Which election you talking about?

2020. Or whenever the government decides to hold it.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

1. The Guyana constitution specifically restricts the president to appoint a person unilaterally as GECOM chairman.

2. The president can only unilaterally appoint a person when the Leader of the Opposition does not submit a list of nominees for GECOM chairman.

FM
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:

 

So they went back to the old PNC rigging wickedness. 

Which election you talking about?

2020. Or whenever the government decides to hold it.

You  talking about "future crime"?

Dude, this not Hollywood

FM
Homme posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:

2015, May elections.

Difference was about 5,000 votes between the two major political groups.

In any democratic country, there is an immediate recount when the difference in so small, with members present from each political groups.

Thus far, the recount has not been done.

So, incumbent PPP rigged the election to lose?

The PPP did not rig the elections. The count was close and should have been recounted. Maybe the result would still show the Coalition as victorious. What makes it questionable was the Chairman's decision to not conduct the recount. Even the UK dude commented on that in his comment to Granger's wickedness.

FM
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:

2015, May elections.

Difference was about 5,000 votes between the two major political groups.

In any democratic country, there is an immediate recount when the difference in so small, with members present from each political groups.

Thus far, the recount has not been done.

So, incumbent PPP rigged the election to lose?

The PPP did not rig the elections. The count was close and should have been recounted. Maybe the result would still show the Coalition as victorious. What makes it questionable was the Chairman's decision to not conduct the recount. Even the UK dude commented on that in his comment to Granger's wickedness.

So, who rigged it?

FM
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:

 

So they went back to the old PNC rigging wickedness. 

Which election you talking about?

2020. Or whenever the government decides to hold it.

You  talking about "future crime"?

Dude, this not Hollywood

Dude, I saw Granger doing this even as his people and the AFC people were hugging up and kissing up at the Valentine's Day love fest in 2015. It didn't happen yet but it has now. Same as if and when the other general elections take place. The current PNC is no different from the PNC of old. The only difference was that they were able to wave a shiny bead at the AFC dudes and tricked them into letting them stand on their backs so they can take over the government. Two years later and with no measurable accomplishments, they are seeing securing their future would require returning to the same old PNC style rigging wickedness.

FM
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:

2015, May elections.

Difference was about 5,000 votes between the two major political groups.

In any democratic country, there is an immediate recount when the difference in so small, with members present from each political groups.

Thus far, the recount has not been done.

So, incumbent PPP rigged the election to lose?

The PPP did not rig the elections. The count was close and should have been recounted. Maybe the result would still show the Coalition as victorious. What makes it questionable was the Chairman's decision to not conduct the recount. Even the UK dude commented on that in his comment to Granger's wickedness.

So, who rigged it?

You always had only questions in your life?? Try giving answers sometime!!!

Nehru
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:

2015, May elections.

Difference was about 5,000 votes between the two major political groups.

In any democratic country, there is an immediate recount when the difference in so small, with members present from each political groups.

Thus far, the recount has not been done.

So, incumbent PPP rigged the election to lose?

The PPP did not rig the elections. The count was close and should have been recounted. Maybe the result would still show the Coalition as victorious. What makes it questionable was the Chairman's decision to not conduct the recount. Even the UK dude commented on that in his comment to Granger's wickedness.

Correct Ksazma.

The difference in vote-count was less than 1%, requiring an immediate recount, verified by persons from each political groups present before the results are provided as official.

Recount and verification were not done by GECOM

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:

2015, May elections.

Difference was about 5,000 votes between the two major political groups.

In any democratic country, there is an immediate recount when the difference in so small, with members present from each political groups.

Thus far, the recount has not been done.

So, incumbent PPP rigged the election to lose?

The PPP did not rig the elections. The count was close and should have been recounted. Maybe the result would still show the Coalition as victorious. What makes it questionable was the Chairman's decision to not conduct the recount. Even the UK dude commented on that in his comment to Granger's wickedness.

So, who rigged it?

There is no charge of a rigged election in 2015. The charge was that the count could be incorrect and given their closeness, a recount was requested. That request was denied raising the concern that the government is not legitimate. No one charge Florida of rigging the 2000 elections. The charge was that the recount concerns were not thoroughly exhausted.

FM
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:

 

So they went back to the old PNC rigging wickedness. 

Which election you talking about?

2020. Or whenever the government decides to hold it.

You  talking about "future crime"?

Dude, this not Hollywood

Dude, I saw Granger doing this even as his people and the AFC people were hugging up and kissing up at the Valentine's Day love fest in 2015. It didn't happen yet but it has now. Same as if and when the other general elections take place. The current PNC is no different from the PNC of old. The only difference was that they were able to wave a shiny bead at the AFC dudes and tricked them into letting them stand on their backs so they can take over the government. Two years later and with no measurable accomplishments, they are seeing securing their future would require returning to the same old PNC style rigging wickedness.

Your fantasies and paranoia do not count as facts

FM
Homme posted:
 

Your fantasies and paranoia do not count as facts

Whether fantasies, paranoia or facts, they do not have any direct effect on me or my life so I am not in the least concerned which they are. The folks in Guyana are the ones who are directly in the crosshairs. History has shown how people suffer through PNC wickedness and incompetence. Ultimately they will have to confront what means more to them.

FM
Homme posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Homme posted:

Ralph, stop playing to the gallery and parse the qualifier "not unacceptable to the President" and come again please.

You know better

You have failed to paraphrase the phrase in its entirety, hence losing the meaning of its intention.

Art. 161.2 as amended:

"Subject to the provisions of paragraph (4), the Chairman of the Elections Commission shall be a person who holds or who has held office as a judge of a court having unlimited jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters in some part of the Commonwealth or a court having jurisdiction in appeals from any such court or who is qualified to be appointed as any such judge, or any other fit and proper person, to be appointed by the President from a list of six persons, not unacceptable to the President, submitted by the Minority Leader after consultation with the political parties represented in the National Assembly, other than the party to which the President belongs:
Provided that if the Minority Leader fails to submit a list as provided[,] for the President shall appoint a person who holds or has held office as a judge of a court having unlimited jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters in some part of the Commonwealth or a court having jurisdiction in appeals from any such court or who is qualified to be appointed as any such judge."

_____________________________________

Is this better?

Please read the article in its entirety. Mr. Jagdeo did not fail to submit a list. In fact, he submitted three lists. The conclusion is President Granger is not following the constitution . He is behaving like a dictator . Why is he afraid of the Guyanese electorate ? This is not about Mr. Jagdeo and the PPP / C, this is about the Guyanese nation. President Granger is telling them that they are not smart enough to elect a President and government to represent them. Only he and the PNC / R know what is best for the nation. Long Live Democracy.

B
BGMAN posted:
Homme posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Homme posted:

Ralph, stop playing to the gallery and parse the qualifier "not unacceptable to the President" and come again please.

You know better

You have failed to paraphrase the phrase in its entirety, hence losing the meaning of its intention.

Art. 161.2 as amended:

"Subject to the provisions of paragraph (4), the Chairman of the Elections Commission shall be a person who holds or who has held office as a judge of a court having unlimited jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters in some part of the Commonwealth or a court having jurisdiction in appeals from any such court or who is qualified to be appointed as any such judge, or any other fit and proper person, to be appointed by the President from a list of six persons, not unacceptable to the President, submitted by the Minority Leader after consultation with the political parties represented in the National Assembly, other than the party to which the President belongs:
Provided that if the Minority Leader fails to submit a list as provided[,] for the President shall appoint a person who holds or has held office as a judge of a court having unlimited jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters in some part of the Commonwealth or a court having jurisdiction in appeals from any such court or who is qualified to be appointed as any such judge."

_____________________________________

Is this better?

Please read the article in its entirety. Mr. Jagdeo did not fail to submit a list. In fact, he submitted three lists.

Nobody claimed that Jagdeo failed to submit a list!

What happen, you just wake up and felt the need to jump on board and post something?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ksazma posted:

 

and 4 years later in 2015 . 

So why is the PPP squealing that the 2015 election was invalid. Apparently they rigged the election against themselves.

The Cold War is over and Guyana is no interest to no one.  Jagdeo is seen by the ABC nations as a demon and this has been discussed in the WikiLeaks.

No one is going to crack a nail on this until the PPP dumps Jagdeo.  Oh yes some ambassador might say something. Carter is angry with the PPP and feels that his exercise in 1992 was a huge waste. He is old, and sick and can think of other things to do than to waste time with Guyana.

FM
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:

 

and 4 years later in 2015 . 

So why is the PPP squealing that the 2015 election was invalid. 

Because the proper protocol for a close election was denied. Even the UK dude commented yesterday that that issue has still not been resolved.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ksazma posted:

Because the proper protocol for a close election was denied. Even the UK dude commented yesterday that that issue has still not been resolved.

You know what. Most election results are announced within a few hours of polls being closed.  Guyana most be the only nation in the world where it takes almost one week.

So this provides enough time for any entity to raise issues. If indeed there are any.

I really don't care what some UK dude says. He needs to deal with Brexit which is turning his own country upside down.

When an election is held on a Tuesday and the results announced by the time people wake up on Wednesday then all of this screaming by the PPP will be valid.  But given that we don't know a thing until Saturday what more does the PPP want. 

In fact people in fact know the results on Wednesday morning.  The issue is that it takes a long time in Guyana for results to be certified.  That timeframe gave the PPP time to raise its concerns.  The PPP thinks that they are God ordained to rule and just couldn't imagine a time when Guyanese thought otherwise.

You know fully well that had the PPP won with the same margins they would have been running around screaming that the PNC should accept the results.

FM
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
 

Because the proper protocol for a close election was denied. Even the UK dude commented yesterday that that issue has still not been resolved.

You know what. Most election results are announced within a few hours of polls being closed.  Guyana most be the only nation in the world where it takes almost one week.

So this provides enough time for any entity to raise issues. If indeed there are any.

I really don't care what some UK dude says. He needs to deal with Brexit which is turning his own country upside down.

When an election is held on a Tuesday and the results announced by the time people wake up on Wednesday then all of this screaming by the PPP will be valid.  But given that we don't know a thing until Saturday what more does the PPP want. 

In fact people in fact know the results on Wednesday morning.  The issue is that it takes a long time in Guyana for results to be certified.  That timeframe gave the PPP time to raise its concerns.  The PPP thinks that they are God ordained to rule and just couldn't imagine a time when Guyanese thought otherwise.

You know fully well that had the PPP won with the same margins they would have been running around screaming that the PNC should accept the results.

If it comforts your conscience to expect the count in Guyana to be similar to the US, go ahead and comfort it. The fact is that there was no recount as requested by the PPP. That fact cannot be altered whether the initial count took an hour, day, month or year. The issue was that there was a request for a recount which was denied.

You last comment is deflection.

FM
ksazma posted:
 

If it comforts your conscience to expect the count in Guyana to be similar to the US, 

Jamaica knows the results by 10PM. T&T by early next morning.  And these people run a constituency system so in effect they are running as many elections as there are constituencies.

Guyana it takes 5 days.  Fewer votes to count, and don't blame the interior because the last votes to be certified are usually in the coastal regions.

And you know full well that if the PPP won by 5000 votes, instead of losing by that amount, they and you would have been mounting the usual anti black screams to tell the PNC to accept the results.

FM
caribny posted:
ksazma posted:
 

If it comforts your conscience to expect the count in Guyana to be similar to the US, 

Jamaica knows the results by 10PM. T&T by early next morning. 

Irrelevant. The discussion is on what Guyana does.

FM
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:
Homme posted:
ksazma posted:

 

So they went back to the old PNC rigging wickedness. 

Which election you talking about?

2020. Or whenever the government decides to hold it.

You  talking about "future crime"?

Dude, this not Hollywood

Dude, I saw Granger doing this even as his people and the AFC people were hugging up and kissing up at the Valentine's Day love fest in 2015. It didn't happen yet but it has now. Same as if and when the other general elections take place. The current PNC is no different from the PNC of old. The only difference was that they were able to wave a shiny bead at the AFC dudes and tricked them into letting them stand on their backs so they can take over the government. Two years later and with no measurable accomplishments, they are seeing securing their future would require returning to the same old PNC style rigging wickedness.

Your fantasies and paranoia do not count as facts

Your Dumbness is of no help to humanity FILTH HEAD!!!

Nehru

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