quote:

Originally posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:
In the current parliamentary make-up in Guyana, if the same rules apply then a speaker from the opposition could lessen the votes to dead 32 to 32 betwenn gov't and opposition. In his case, the speaker will act as a tie-breaker and vote for either side.
.

And Spice Girl really thinks that Nagamootoo can be trusted in this slot when he only recently left the PPP and seems quite eager to canvass them for support? Even without coming to an agreement with AFC leadership!

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:
In the current parliamentary make-up in Guyana, if the same rules apply then a speaker from the opposition could lessen the votes to dead 32 to 32 betwenn gov't and opposition. In his case, the speaker will act as a tie-breaker and vote for either side.
.

And Spice Girl really thinks that Nagamootoo can be trusted in this slot when he only recently left the PPP and seems quite eager to canvass them for support? Even without coming to an agreement with AFC leadership!

Why not? The previous speaker of the house in the English parliament was a Labour member when Labour was in power. The current speaker is a Conservative, and they are the main party in the coalition government. However, none of the speakers elected to do that duty in the last 30 years can be accused of taking sides with the government, unless protocol required that in law.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:
In the current parliamentary make-up in Guyana, if the same rules apply then a speaker from the opposition could lessen the votes to dead 32 to 32 betwenn gov't and opposition. In his case, the speaker will act as a tie-breaker and vote for either side.
.

And Spice Girl really thinks that Nagamootoo can be trusted in this slot when he only recently left the PPP and seems quite eager to canvass them for support? Even without coming to an agreement with AFC leadership!

In the same vein, why should AFC trust Backer or Ramsaroop, hard core members of PNC party, which collaborated with PPP to pass the Recall legislation. This very law forces MPs to vote strictly along party lines and not necessarily in the interest of the people. Since this is the case, the Speaker will always be required to cast a deciding vote. What a web weaved by Jagdeo and Corbin!

Thanks Spice Girl. That was very nice of you to inform us about the recall legislation. We need to delve into this legislation to see if makes our parliamentary democracy stronger or more meek.

quote:

Originally posted by Spice Girl:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:
In the current parliamentary make-up in Guyana, if the same rules apply then a speaker from the opposition could lessen the votes to dead 32 to 32 betwenn gov't and opposition. In his case, the speaker will act as a tie-breaker and vote for either side.
.

And Spice Girl really thinks that Nagamootoo can be trusted in this slot when he only recently left the PPP and seems quite eager to canvass them for support? Even without coming to an agreement with AFC leadership!

In the same vein, why should AFC trust Backer or Ramsaroop, hard core members of PNC party, which collaborated with PPP to pass the Recall legislation. This very law forces MPs to vote strictly along party lines and not necessarily in the interest of the people. Since this is the case, the Speaker will always be required to cast a deciding vote. What a web weaved by Jagdeo and Corbin!

APNU just put ramsaroop name their as a window dressing,just to show they puting a indian but every body know he do not stand a chance,this man should just fade away he is a waste.

quote:

Originally posted by Spice Girl:
[]

In the same vein, why should AFC trust Backer or Ramsaroop, !

Spice you are going on as if the AFC has a choice.

1. The biggest aim of the PPP will be to win back votes it lost to the AFC this time, which has landed them with the embarrassing position of being a minority govt.

The PPP will plan to destroy the AFC and will work with APNU if they also think that you all need to be taught a lesson. You forgot what the PPP and the PNC did last time! Decide whether you think that Naga will stay on a ship if he thinks it is sinking. Apparently even Trotman doesnt fully trust him.

So disabuse yourself of the notion that a piddling 7 seats will mean anything if APNU and the PPP gang up against you all.

Put Nagamootoo in (this will only happen if the PPP wants it and I dont know why they would) and they might well do so. In fact if Naga doesnt do as he is told by the AFC and he is recalled this might well trigger the constitutional crisis that the PPP is begging for to have another election...and with Jagdeo lying low who knows what Naga will do...he seems filled with the notion that he must be boss...if not in the PPP than in the AFC.

2. APNU will survive, even without the AFC, as it is the largest opposition party. If it survived Corbin, who almost destroyed it, believe me it will survive. It is a race based party amnd so is guaranteed its 40%, provided that its base feels that it adequately represents their interests...something that they didnt trust the AFC to do by the way.

3. On the other hand the survival of the AFC is in doubt. If Ramotar proves to be better than jagdeo than even Nagamootoo will race back to the PPP. If Granger turns out to be better than he keeps his support base.

Like most countries Guyana is a two party nation. The AFC lucked out in 2006 when many in the PNC were upset with Corbin...and this time when many PPP supporters from Berbice followed Nagamootoo. If you think that pandering to Nagamootoo will keep him there you dream. If Ramotar opens up to the PPP defectors they will all race back home. Better to be within the power structure, if it is open to them, than fighting to be heard.

Spice Girl its this arrogance that you and other AFC supporters have which costed you this election. Until August most of us, myself included, had written off APNU as being unable to keep its support base. Without Nagamootoo the AFC would have crashed to a humiliating defeat as it did well only in Berbice. Not in Demerara, nor in Essequibo.

So keep your sanctimonous tone about what the AFC deserves. As of now 90% of Guyanese who bothered to vote say NOTHING!!!!!

Unlike other parts of the English sp. Caribbean MPs serve at the pleasure of the party. They have no constituency to represent other than the party so Recall is quite appropriate. A flawed approcah to a flawed consitution. I am sure that the AFc will benefit from Recall as well, especially with a wild card like Naga around.

A change in the constitution allowing some level of direct representation is important and D2 has had a number of ideas on this.

What the AFC fanatics need to figure out is how to build a party with its own support base of at least 30% of the population.

Crying about APNU and blaming black people will not get you any where, except maybe ensuring that you never win black support. The fact remains that the AFC only got Nagamootoo's base. He clearly isnt popular among PPP supporters in Demerara or Essequibo so the PPP kept that vote...even though I am sure they suffer as do those in Berbice.

Take a retreat. Figure out what went wrong. Figure out specific steps that the AFC must take NOW if it is to attract the trust of Guyanese grass roiots voters whose default voting always falls on the comfort of "apan jhat", or "kith and kin".

Maybe you guys are just too intellectual;. Being "right" doesnt mean that people will trust you if they dont feel comfortable with you.

Look at Jamaica. Holness is infinitely more capable than Portia Simpson but he lacks the people skills that she has. So he was stomped. This also happened to Al Gore and Kerry in the USA where the mediocre Bush who had better people skills won. So its not our supposed third world backwardness.

So figure it out. Stop wasting time about what you feel APNU owes you (NOTHING), or feeling that your failure was only due to Guyana's legendary ethnic insecurities. Or feeling that pandering to the PPP will enable you to keep their supporters (what a stupid theory is that).

This is what it is and the AFC will have to figure out how to deal with it.

what you saying that APNU will join ppp to distroy AFC ,it might turn around and bite you.you think the black people want APNU to go to bed with ppp after what the phamtom did to 400 blacks.if the ppp and APNU keep distroying guyana.this might be the last dance for them.AFC might only get 7 seats but it shock the two partys,now that the black see the indians is willing to make a change,who know what will happen next election.remember good distroy evil

quote:

Originally posted by warrior:
what you saying that APNU will join ppp to distroy AFC

Why not? What can you all do if they do so. And they will not get into bed with the PPP to crush you all. No need to as you all are like a little irritating bug. They will ignore you and the job is done. With 7 seats what can you do.

Black people do not trust the AFC because the AFC ignored them un til the last minute. Freddie Kissoon told you all so. Even AFCs own gerhard admitted this. So you dont own blacks, and if they felt that a strengthened PNC would have been better able to represent their interests than a piddling AFC then this is what you all will have to deal with.

By the way Indians didnt make a change. They split their votes between two INDIAN leaders. Ramotar and Nagamootoo. Proof of this is the abysmal performance of the AFC in places where Nagamootoo lacks pull. West Coast Demerara now has as many votes as does the Corentyne, yet look how badly the AFC did.

Get it into your head. Black people wanted to see the PPP weakened. The AFC ignored the black vote so blacks didnt see them as having the capacity to do so. Rather than screaming at blacks use the next five years to win them over. Do the same for Demerara and Essequibo Indians who also ignored the AFC.

The AFC needs to stop thinking that they are entitled to getting votes when their time in parliament has been noteworthy in showing their mediocracy and inability to effect change.

And by the way do you think that the AFC is winning any points with AfroGuyanese by letting Nagamootoo run his mouth about what the AFC should do and how the AFc should work with the PPP to ensure he becomes Speaker. OOOH yes those who thought that the PPP and ROAR took over the AFC now have ample "evidence" of that now. I am sure Trotman is aware of this even if Spice is too naive to be.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by warrior:
what you saying that APNU will join ppp to distroy AFC

Why not? What can you all do if they do so.

Black people do not trust the AFC because the AFC ignored them un til the last minute. Freddie Kissoon told you all so. Even AFCs own gerhard admitted this. So you dont own blacks, and if they felt that a strengthened PNC woudl ahve been better able to represent their interests than apiddling AFC than this is what you all wioll have to deal with.

By the way Indians didnt make a change. They split their votes between two INDIAN leaders. Ramotar and Nagamootoo. Proof of this is the abysmal performance of the AFc in places where Nagamootoo lacks pull. West Coast Demerara now has as many votes as does the Corentyne, yet look how badly the AFC did.

Get it into your head. Black people wanted to see the PPP weakened. The AFC ignored the black vote so blacks didnt see them as having the capacity to do so. Rather than screaming at blacks use the next five years to win them over. Do the same for Demerara and Essequibo Indians who also ignored the AFC.

THE AFC cannot do anything iF APNU want to join the ppp,for 20 yrs the ppp did nothing for pnc and the black people you think they will start now.the black people lose faith in Corbin because they think he sell out to bar--rat .you want APNU to do the same.do not make your feeling get the better of and you start talking bull.i know i am getting to you but relax my brother and think.if APNU join ppp and the black people do not get what they want,they will kill APNU.the best bet for the APNU people is AFC in parlament.

quote:

Originally posted by warrior:
THE AFC cannot do anything iF APNU want to join the ppp,.

I see the problem we have here. You are a very simple and naive man. You dont know that powers can form alliances while they simultaneously battle. Do you think that the USA and the USSR didnt sometime gang up against China, yet maintain their hostilities intact?

AFC needs APNU as much or more than APNU needs the AFC. If the AFC behaves like a cute girl she might find her potential mates have gone elsewhere.

Ramotar seems to understand that he has to play some degree of footsie with Granger. He doenst seem to ahve teh arrogance of a Jagdeo.

Granger also understands that he cant face every situation with marches or boycotts so will negotiate. Otherwise he will be seen as unwilling to cooperate and his own supporters will tire of him.

The AFC will need to be crafty enough to see where it fits into the battle fought by these two dinosaurs...both of which still enjoy the support from the bulk of their core base.
If it assume sthat nothing will get done and that the PPP and APNU will not negotiate directly you are simple.

BTW such cooperation will more likely appear to be the OPPP caving into the APNU than the other way around as the PPP for the first time will ahve to listen to another party.

Corbin's problem is he never stood up to Jagdeo. Even as Jagdeo slapped him around and ignored him he never demanded to eb included. Granger is not playing this game. At least not yet.

Given that the PPP controls the executive the only way that blacks will get what they want is if APNU negotiates with the PPP to get it. Most decisions are not made in parliament. Now AFC can be part of that process...or they can exclude themselves from it...but Granger will have to bring back the bacon.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by warrior:
THE AFC cannot do anything iF APNU want to join the ppp,.

I see the problem we have here. You are a very simple and naive man. You dont know that powers can form alliances while they simultaneously battle. Do you think that the USA and the USSR didnt sometime gang up against China, yet maintain their hostilities intact?

AFC needs APNU as much or more than APNU needs the AFC. If the AFC behaves like a cute girl she might find her potential mates have gone elsewhere.

Ramotar seems to understand that he has to play some degree of footsie with Granger. He doenst seem to ahve teh arrogance of a Jagdeo.

Granger also understands that he cant face every situation with marches or boycotts so will negotiate. Otherwise he will be seen as unwilling to cooperate and his own supporters will tire of him.

The AFC will need to be crafty enough to see where it fits into the battle fought by these two dinosaurs...both of which still enjoy the support from the bulk of their core base.
If it assume sthat nothing will get done and that the PPP and APNU will not negotiate directly you are simple.

BTW such cooperation will more likely appear to be the OPPP caving into the APNU than the other way around as the PPP for the first time will ahve to listen to another party.

Corbin's problem is he never stood up to Jagdeo. Even as Jagdeo slapped him around and ignored him he never demanded to eb included. Granger is not playing this game. At least not yet.

Given that the PPP controls the executive the only way that blacks will get what they want is if APNU negotiates with the PPP to get it. Most decisions are not made in parliament. Now AFC can be part of that process...or they can exclude themselves from it...but Granger will have to bring back the bacon.

i know you grabing at straw when you comparing USA and russa WITH GUYANA.GUYANA have black and collie,guyana history is our prison we fighting our own ghost.when granger make these deals with the ppp it might be his down fall.and he have to be very carefull because a whole race is depending on him.if he want to act like a ***** he will end up on the streets.know my friend you could rave and rant all you want,APNU will stick with the AFC

quote:

Originally posted by warrior:
]i know you grabing at straw when you comparing USA and russa WITH GUYANA.

Hence your simple nature. You cant see parallels between the dynamics impacting two super powers (USA and the USSR) and the two super powers within the Guyanese political context (the PPP and APNU).

The PPP is on sinking sand. Its base is shrinking as they migrate or die off. Young Indos they dont own. Granger ha sto prove that he isnt too "middle class" to bring home the bacon to the grass roots blacks who supported him.

They both have something to get and indeed successful politics only comes through negotations. If you think by voting no to everything the PPP proposes will win the day you dont know very much.

If the PPP doesnt show a willingness to negotiate they begin to look like they dont want to work with the oppoistion. Ditto APNU which has to use its poistion to ensure that the govt delivers for APNU supporters.

Now if you think the AFC's role is to deliver for APNU feel free. I dont think so...which is why APNU is NOT going to lie back and wait for their Gtwn vs Corentyne battle to be over.

Understand something. APNU is a race based party so its mission is a success if it delivers for blacks, even if it pretends not to be so limited. The AFC has no base of its own so its role will be less clear cut.

We havent seen albert braying about the "PPP being the party of national unity" since the election. Why? The PPP knows they didnt get the black vote and they cannot govern if blacks become too alienated to play a constructive role.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by warrior:
]i know you grabing at straw when you comparing USA and russa WITH GUYANA.

Hence your simple nature. You cant see parallels between the dynamics impacting two super powers (USA and the USSR) and the two super powers within the Guyanese political context (the PPP and APNU).

The PPP is on sinking sand. Its base is shrinking as they migrate or die off. Young Indos they dont own. Granger ha sto prove that he isnt too "middle class" to bring home the bacon to the grass roots blacks who supported him.

They both have something to get and indeed successful politics only comes through negotations. If you think by voting no to everything the PPP proposes will win the day you dont know very much.

If the PPP doesnt show a willingness to negotiate they begin to look like they dont want to work with the oppoistion. Ditto APNU which has to use its poistion to ensure that the govt delivers for APNU supporters.

Now if you think the AFC's role is to deliver for APNU feel free. I dont think so...which is why APNU is NOT going to lie back and wait for their Gtwn vs Corentyne battle to be over.

Understand something. APNU is a race based party so its mission is a success if it delivers for blacks, even if it pretends not to be so limited. The AFC has no base of its own so its role will be less clear cut.

We havent seen albert braying about the "PPP being the party of national unity" since the election. Why? The PPP knows they didnt get the black vote and they cannot govern if blacks become too alienated to play a constructive role.

you is a fool,what happen to the last 20 yrs that ppp is in power,did they respect pnc rights,why did pnc keep waking out of parlament.now pnc have power,what kind of power, they lose the election.the only power they have now is with AFC backing.ppp can shit all over them if AFC do not side with them.or maybe they will keep walking out of parlament

quote:

Originally posted by Spice Girl:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:
In the current parliamentary make-up in Guyana, if the same rules apply then a speaker from the opposition could lessen the votes to dead 32 to 32 betwenn gov't and opposition. In his case, the speaker will act as a tie-breaker and vote for either side.
NO PARTY WON THE ELECTION.
Burnham PNC rigged Constitution give Ramotar the Presidency....
and the PPP the Ministries in the Government.

Regardless in Parliarment....Nothing will be done unless the PPP, APNU & AFC work together.

So rightnow they are all Jockeying for position...
but nothing will happen until the meet next month in Parliarment.


.

And Spice Girl really thinks that Nagamootoo can be trusted in this slot when he only recently left the PPP and seems quite eager to canvass them for support? Even without coming to an agreement with AFC leadership! CaribJ Moses has everyright to talk he alone delivered at least 3 seats to the AFC......
CaribJ...How many Seats did Trotman bring to AFC?????
It is Interested to hear from CaribJ why he cant Trust Moses.....
I would like to know if the only reason is because he is Indian?
So CaribJ needs to throw away those Racial Blinders....

TROTMAN HIMSELF SAID THE RACE WAR IS OVER.

In the same vein, why should AFC trust Backer or Ramsaroop, hard core members of PNC party, which collaborated with PPP to pass the Recall legislation. This very law forces MPs to vote strictly along party lines and not necessarily in the interest of the people. Since this is the case, the Speaker will always be required to cast a deciding vote. What a web weaved by Jagdeo and Corbin!

As I said all 3 Parties will have to sit at the Table and work together.

CaribJ is looking out for his Hard Core PNC.....
nothing is wrong with that.....

but dont put a good man down because he is Indian or he was PPP......
So he is ok....as long as he did not thief
he is OK if he was not part of the corruption under Jagdeo.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.T:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:
In the current parliamentary make-up in Guyana, if the same rules apply then a speaker from the opposition could lessen the votes to dead 32 to 32 betwenn gov't and opposition. In his case, the speaker will act as a tie-breaker and vote for either side.
.

And Spice Girl really thinks that Nagamootoo can be trusted in this slot when he only recently left the PPP and seems quite eager to canvass them for support? Even without coming to an agreement with AFC leadership!

Why not? The previous speaker of the house in the English parliament was a Labour member when Labour was in power. The current speaker is a Conservative, and they are the main party in the coalition government. However, none of the speakers elected to do that duty in the last 30 years can be accused of taking sides with the government, unless protocol required that in law.

Are you this dense?

quote:

Originally posted by Spice Girl:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:
In the current parliamentary make-up in Guyana, if the same rules apply then a speaker from the opposition could lessen the votes to dead 32 to 32 betwenn gov't and opposition. In his case, the speaker will act as a tie-breaker and vote for either side.
.

And Spice Girl really thinks that Nagamootoo can be trusted in this slot when he only recently left the PPP and seems quite eager to canvass them for support? Even without coming to an agreement with AFC leadership!

In the same vein, why should AFC trust Backer or Ramsaroop, hard core members of PNC party, which collaborated with PPP to pass the Recall legislation. This very law forces MPs to vote strictly along party lines and not necessarily in the interest of the people. Since this is the case, the Speaker will always be required to cast a deciding vote. What a web weaved by Jagdeo and Corbin!

it looks like Moses nagamootoo does not understand the Bill, and he is a lawyer...

quote:

Originally posted by warrior:
what you saying that APNU will join ppp to distroy AFC ,it might turn around and bite you.you think the black people want APNU to go to bed with ppp after what the phamtom did to 400 blacks.if the ppp and APNU keep distroying guyana.this might be the last dance for them.AFC might only get 7 seats but it shock the two partys,now that the black see the indians is willing to make a change,who know what will happen next election.remember good distroy evil

You missed the whole point of his post..

When you talk about power be more specific.

The AFC is asking for things that no money is available for.. They are asking for things that don't need the government to consult the opposition.