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FM
Former Member
Brazil's economic boom drawing immigrant workers home
Brazilians are returning to better opportunities. Unemployment is at a historic low, and incomes are rising rapidly. In many sectors, Brazilians earn more than their U.S. counterparts.

Reporting from Salvador da Bahia, Brazilβ€” Two years ago, Victor Bahia was scraping by on tips from delivering pizzas to UC Berkeley students, living in rough neighborhoods and dodging immigration authorities. These days, he runs his two businesses between frequent trips to the beach here in his hometown and barbecues with his family at a new house in a quiet suburb.

But he didn't return because he had realized the dream of many immigrants: earning enough money in the United States to start a new life at home. He gave up on California because he became convinced that booming Brazil offered much more opportunity than the crisis-ridden U.S.

And, like many others who have increasingly made the return journey, he found that reality far exceeded his expectations.

"I never planned on leaving, really. I love it there," said Bahia, 25. "But my mom and everyone here kept telling me that this economy was exploding like never before, and all the work had dried up in the Bay Area. It's the same reason that the majority of the Brazilians I knew there were also leaving."

Since the economic crisis struck in the U.S. three years ago, the Brazilian economy has continued to surge, and the currency, the real, has appreciated dramatically against the dollar. The unemployment rate here is at a historic low, and incomes, especially of the lower and middle classes, are rising rapidly. In many sectors, Brazilian workers earn more than their U.S. counterparts.

"It's hard to get specific numbers," said Eduardo Gradilone Neto, undersecretary-general for Brazilian Communities Abroad at the Foreign Ministry. "But we're seeing that a significant part of what we call the Brazilian diaspora is coming home, because there are comparatively so much more opportunities here than there were five or 10 years ago."

He said Brazilians began emigrating in large numbers in the 1990s, when opportunities in Europe and the United States looked attractive compared with the economic problems in their homeland. At one point, he said, 3 million Brazilians were living abroad, many of them the young people who are the country's future. "That was the trend until 2008, when we saw the crisis in the developed countries."

About a third of the Brazilians living in Japan, for which there are official numbers because of a special visa agreement, have returned since 2008, Gradilone said.

"We wouldn't be surprised to see that a similar ratio of the community living in the U.S. had returned," he said. "And in the communities that we historically expected to see emigration, now instead of going to the U.S. or Europe, they tend to go to other Brazilian cities."

Over the last decade, Brazil has increased its trade ties with China, which has overtaken the U.S. as the country's main trading partner. High prices for commodities such as iron ore and soy have powered Brazil's economic boom, as have stable macroeconomic conditions and soaring consumer demand.

Strict banking regulations meant that Brazil was relatively unscathed by the 2008 crisis. In the years since the global meltdown, the growth has been most remarkable in the country's traditionally poorer regions, such as the northeastern state of Bahia, whose largest city, Salvador, was the capital of Brazil in early colonial times.

A 2010 report from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security estimates that about 200,000 undocumented Brazilians live in the United States, and many more are residents with visas or permanent citizenship. The Brazilian government puts the number of Brazilians in the U.S. at about 1 million.

Those who had been earning dollars saw their savings dwindle in terms of the Brazilian currency when the real appreciated rapidly, as high interest rates and growth led to a flow of investment into the country.

"I had nightmares about the drop in the value of the dollar. I dreamt that it dropped to $1 for one real and woke up screaming," said Flavia, who just returned to Salvador da Bahia with her husband, Toni. He has U.S. citizenship, but she wasn't able to acquire a green card because, she said, immigration authorities didn't believe their marriage was legitimate.

Toni got his start working illegally in California as a driver after moving from Goias, in the rural interior of Brazil, then got his papers after his first marriage, to a U.S. citizen. He and Flavia have asked that their full names not be used, because a year after applying for Flavia's green card, their case is still technically open.

"So we came back." she said. "But then I saw that my cousins who stayed here, went to school and got jobs have often earned even more than those of us who went abroad and struggled.

"I left my country when I was 18," she said, "and I went 10 years without seeing my family, and I think, was it worth it?"

She worked as a nanny in San Francisco, and says she will go back to school in Brazil, because Toni quickly found work as a contractor.

It's not just low-income workers who have been drawn home by the economy. Companies and business schools say they are luring back Brazilians who might have previously planned on working in the U.S. For one thing, the money is better. The Economist magazine found this year that executives earn more money in Sao Paulo, Brazil's economic capital, than in any other city in the world. New York came in second.

"We are seeing all kinds of Brazilians return," said Rodrigo Zeidan, professor of international economics at the Fundacao Dom Cabral, one of Brazil's top business schools. "And doing so makes perfect economic sense. Brazil has found its own internal growth engine, and incomes are rising, especially in the middle and lower-middle classes.

"I myself have recently come home from abroad, and we in Brazil are living through something that unfortunately a lot of the rich countries like the U.S. don't have at the moment. Young people tend to take it for granted that with a little hard work they can do something bigger and better than what their parents are doing."

Some cited an increasingly difficult atmosphere in the U.S. for immigrants as a factor in their decision to return home.

"I was arrested by immigration authorities in Maine in 2009 and spent a day without food, in the freezing cold," said Marcos "Beto" Lopes da Silva, 37. , who said that after his legal ordeal he spent a few months crashing with Bahia in California and struggling to find enough work before leaving the U.S. with very little to show for his year there.

He now works in a computer supply store here and makes $1,250 to $2,500 a month selling and refilling printer cartridges, much more than he made as a construction worker in the United States.

"I plan to return to the U.S., of course, but only just to pass through," he said. "You know, to go shopping."

Bevins is a special correspondent.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
So a Brazilian back home makes more than one who is ILLEGALLY in the USA and you scream for joy?

Remember that the US has never stopped sending jobs to China, and this is the root cause of US problems. IT happens that the US corporations make more money that way, which provides the illusion of a high GDP. The result is that money is accumulating in few hands while the US workers lose their jobs and are unable to make many for their living.
FM
31 August 2011 Last updated at 22:31 GMT
Brazil's economic boom attracts expats and Americans
By Paula Adamo Idoeta
BBC Brasil

Two years ago Jovino Caldeira Coutinho had had enough.

After living in the United States for 11 years, the 45-year-old construction worker decided to pack up and head back to his homeland, Brazil.

With the US housing market in depression, demand for his construction and demolition business had dried up.

Mr Coutinho now runs a construction firm in a beach city near Sao Paulo, and says he has more work than he can handle alone.

"It was really bad (in the US). I have friends over there with no money to come back, working without getting paid," Mr Coutinho told BBC Brasil. "I told one of them to give up on the money, he'll get plenty of work here."

Going south[b]

American native Donna Roberts, who came from southern Florida to Brazil in February, has similar experiences.

"There were so many restaurants and business closing there", says Ms Roberts, an environmentalist and documentary maker. "But nothing is slowing down here."

Brazil is used to sending thousands of immigrants to the United States.

Now the country sees many of them return, because the economic opportunities are now better at home.

Even some Americans are coming: During the first half of this year, more than 4,300 US citizens received working visas from Brazil's Labour Ministry, up 20% on the first six months of 2010.

The US economy is still almost seven times as big as Brazil's. Its gross domestic product per capita is four times higher than Brazil's.

Even in the years after the 9/11 attacks, the US economy kept growing at a rate of between 2% and 3.5% a year.
Donna Roberts and her husband Donna Roberts says prices in Brazil are rising and people are taking up debt

However, the US government was also hobbled by two expensive wars, a crisis in the housing market and soaring private and government debt. A recession pushed the unemployment rate to around 9%.

Brazil has gone in the opposite direction.

After years of stagnation, the country managed to tamp down both inflation and unemployment; its economy is now powered by a strong internal market.

[b]Going home


Not long after 9/11, Isabel Franco started thinking about going home to Brazil.

She is a lawyer, and holds US citizenship. But after 20 years of living between New York and Hong Kong, she eventually returned to her home country in 2005, settling in Brazil's commercial capital Sao Paulo.

"It was so sad when business just wouldn't work out in New York," says Ms Franco, who helps multinational companies do business in Brazil. "It began to make more sense to come (to Sao Paulo). I didn't want to miss it."

Trading places

The US and Europe are "slowing down" - that was the conclusion of Jennifer Iverson. After living for years in England and Switzerland, in 2006 the 40-year-old American and her Italian husband decided to move to Brazil.

"We noticed that we had to look at other options, and Brazil was suddenly attractive", says Ms Iverson, who now works as a management consultant for local non-governmental organisations. Every time she goes home to the US, her friends give her the same advice: stay where you are.
Jennifer Iverson and husband Immigrants to Brazil: what's not to like?

"It's almost as if the US and Brazil had traded places. Here there is a growing middle class, whereas the US middle class, the engine of the economy, can't pay the bills at the end of the month," says Ms Iverson. "It's the difference between a stagnating economy and an economy that is full of energy."

Rubens Barbosa, Brazil's ambassador to the United States between 1999 and 2004, believes that his country's rising geopolitical and economical importance has changed perceptions in Washington.

"The US State Department used to see Latin America through Mexico or Cuba. Now I'm surprised by the fact that their business attache has lived in Sao Paulo and that everyone in the US Embassy (in Brazil) speaks Portuguese. Their interest has changed."

Mr Barbosa rejects suggestions that the US has had a lost decade, but points to changes after 9/11.

"US public expenditure increased, while revenues decreased because of changes in taxes. 9/11 had a huge impact on the economy and the [American] psyche. They were in an excellent situation, people were spending a lot. Then all of a sudden you had the housing problems, the derivatives problems."

Jason Bermingham Brazil could fall in the same economic "trap" as the United States, says Jason Bermingham

A 'trap' for Brazil?

Jason Bermingham has lived through this change of fortunes. The 42-year-old American has lived in Brazil for 15 years. "My generation [in the US] was used to having an easy access to things. Many of my friends bought lots of nice stuff right from the start and got into debts."

Ten years ago, Mr Bermingham thought about leaving Brazil. "But I sensed things were getting better and I saw the possibilities."

He owns a sound studio in Sao Paulo, where he and his Brazilian wife record voice-overs in English and Portuguese for corporate videos. "It's one of those less obvious careers that you find more and more here in Brazil. It would be silly to leave the country before [the Olympic games of] 2016."

But Mr Bermingham worries that Brazilians could fall into the same "trap" as his fellow Americans. Consumption is growing; inflation is on the rise. "Brazil is euphoric," he says. "I'm not an economist, but I see prices are doubling."

High prices also worry environmentalist Donna Roberts, who came to Brazil in search of a "more sustainable" life. Ms Roberts and her family live in an apartment in Sao Paulo, smaller than the house she had in Florida, and got rid of their car. Their "carbon footprint" is much smaller now.

"But prices are rising and people are getting more credit lines, so if they are not careful the same thing [that happened in the US] could happen here," she says.

She points out one key difference, though: "The US always find itself in a war situation, which uses up money that could be spent on social services."

But Rogerio Mori, an economics professor at Sao Paulo's FGV University, puts this issue in perspective: Brazil's high interest rates.

"It was much easier to get credit in the US", he says. "In Brazil, the limit to which people can get into debt is much smaller."
FM
4,000 Americans go to Brazil, compared to the 200,000 plus who remain in teh USA and you are having an orgasm.

Lucas one day you will learn that the demise of the USA is also the complete collapse of Guyana. The majority of the remittance which support 40% of the economy come from the USA.

There is nothing that Guyana has that Braazil wants. Rice....it can and does get it more cheaply from elsewhere.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
4,000 Americans go to Brazil, compared to the 200,000 plus who remain in teh USA and you are having an orgasm.

Lucas one day you will learn that the demise of the USA is also the complete collapse of Guyana. The majority of the remittance which support 40% of the economy come from the USA.

There is nothing that Guyana has that Braazil wants. Rice....it can and does get it more cheaply from elsewhere.

The US will not collapse like the Soviets. Things will change over time and there will be an adjustment phase for the US as it's place in the world is being redefined. One major adjustment which is underway, the US consumer will not be the engine of growth for emerging economies. The large and continued trade deficits will be reined in and nations like China and others in East Asia will need to "domesticate" their growth engines through internal demand. The US will need to export itself out of this slump and insource some higher-end manufacturing, bring jobs back here. This will have a chilling effect on many nations whose growth is/was being driven by US outsourcing coupled by high consumer imports.

If you think Guyana offers nothing to Brazil, you must be naive.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
4,000 Americans go to Brazil, compared to the 200,000 plus who remain in teh USA and you are having an orgasm.

Lucas one day you will learn that the demise of the USA is also the complete collapse of Guyana. The majority of the remittance which support 40% of the economy come from the USA.

There is nothing that Guyana has that Braazil wants. Rice....it can and does get it more cheaply from elsewhere.

Answers:
Americans are just beginning to emigrate.
The collapse of the US will not mean anything to Guyana. After all, since Guyana hit sea bottom has always remained there.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
4,000 Americans go to Brazil, compared to the 200,000 plus who remain in teh USA and you are having an orgasm.

Lucas one day you will learn that the demise of the USA is also the complete collapse of Guyana. The majority of the remittance which support 40% of the economy come from the USA.

There is nothing that Guyana has that Braazil wants. Rice....it can and does get it more cheaply from elsewhere.

Answers:
Americans are just beginning to emigrate.
The collapse of the US will not mean anything to Guyana. After all, since Guyana hit sea bottom has always remained there.

Jaggy seh he waiting fo we run back deh when the US collapse. Like you, he like a pipe dream on both ends.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
quote:
Originally posted by baseman:
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
My advice to you all is to start taking Portuguese lessons.

I thought the other day you were on the Mandarin bandwagon!

Well.. Yes... but I cannot imagine a Guyanese trying to learn Chinese just to go to China in search of a job.


Actually, I know a few Guyanese who have done just that and now operates export businesses or teaching English.
Mitwah
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
Not a bad idea. If the Guyanese were smart they would've already turned Guyana into an English Institute for South Americans. Unfortunately, the Guyanese have no brains.

It's not the people, the have done good in every other country. The difference between nations are Govt and politics, not so much the people.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by baseman:
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
Not a bad idea. If the Guyanese were smart they would've already turned Guyana into an English Institute for South Americans. Unfortunately, the Guyanese have no brains.

It's not the people, the have done good in every other country. The difference between nations are Govt and politics, not so much the people.

NO BRAINS!
People without brains elect brainless leaders.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
My advice to you all is to start taking Portuguese lessons.


Brazil is a land of massive poverty, huge inequality and hypocrisy in how its treats its citizens of color.

Sorry few Americans will go there or work, except at elite levels and the few who think otehrwose will be quiackly back in the USA.

My question to you is if Brazil is so wonderful why arent you there? Guyanese flock to the USA. There are 200k of us living here. How many live in Brazil? And I dont mean those who periodically move between Roraima and Guyana, but the REAL Brazil of Sao Paulo, etc.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
The collapse of the US will not mean anything to Guyana. .


Remmitances are 40% of your economy. This bankrolls the housing and retail boom. Most of it comes from the USA. If you wish to see Guyana implode just let the USA collapse.

Now how many Guyanese are flocjking to sao Paulo looking for work. Hmmmm. Delta daily to JFK, CAribbean twice daily vis POS (bit most passengers are reputedely Guyanese).

How many flights to Sao Paulo, or even Belem?
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
Not a bad idea. If the Guyanese were smart they would've already turned Guyana into an English Institute for South Americans. .


Why? Few Guyanese speak internationally accepted English and there are many language institutes in Brazil. In any case why do you think that Brazilians will fly to GEO via MIA? After all you have no flights to the most populated parts of Brazil.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
Not a bad idea. If the Guyanese were smart they would've already turned Guyana into an English Institute for South Americans. .


Why? Few Guyanese speak internationally accepted English and there are many language institutes in Brazil. In any case why do you think that Brazilians will fly to GEO via MIA? After all you have no flights to the most populated parts of Brazil.

Caribj,
You have all the lazy man's excuses in your pocket.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
Not a bad idea. If the Guyanese were smart they would've already turned Guyana into an English Institute for South Americans. .


Why? Few Guyanese speak internationally accepted English and there are many language institutes in Brazil. In any case why do you think that Brazilians will fly to GEO via MIA? After all you have no flights to the most populated parts of Brazil.

Caribj,
You have all the lazy man's excuses in your pocket.


You are so funny. The fastest way to fly from Sao Paulo to Guyana is 15 hours. I must fly to Caracas, change to Trinidad (where there are already language institutes aimed at Venenzuelans) before getting to Guyana.

No why would I do this?

Please note that flying from any other major Brazilians city will be even more onerous as most likely I will have to fly to Sao P first.
FM
Originally Posted by Lucas:
It is getting better now that Brazil has overtaken the British economy in size. Many Britons want to migrate to Brazil.

Did you notice that Brazil has a population which is almost 4X the size of England/Wales?

 

Also Brazilians report with concern that much of this growth is fueled by domestic consumption, financed by consumer debt.  That many of the new "middle class", who have no experience in handling credit, are beginning to get into trouble.

 

For those of you who remember 2008, that should sound familiar.

 

And so this Brazilian bubble might soon burst.

FM

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