Mitwah posted:ian posted:1. LBI Estate will be close - it will be announce tomorrow.
.
The PPP/C had closed LBI for more than a decade now. When did they reopen it?
If according to you LBI was closed, then why 800 people showed up for work everyday and still doing so. Maybe they are Honorary workers just like the 24 Honorary Advisers appointed by Harmon. The bottom line is 1700 + 800 people will be out of a job by the end of this year. CAIN, would say "Good thing AFC DEAD".
kp posted:CAIN, would say "Good thing AFC DEAD".
Not GNI Cain. No, siree. Cain would say "Good thing PPP DEAD" for sure.
Mr.T posted:yuji22 posted:Bibi,
Dem AFC/PNC dunces do not understand basic economics. Remember how foreign currency was scarce under Burnham ? Those days will be back.
What would you have been doing with foreign currency in Guyana? It is not a legal tender in any shop or business, except in the drugs and gold smuggling trade.
Mr. T, your post shows how divorced you are from the reality in Guyana. I can go to any store in Guyana, pay for my purchase with US$ and have no problems with them taking it. We might debate about the exchange rate they want to give me. Maybe, the government and you do not see it as a legal tender, but the vast majority of people and businesses in Guyana do.
Kari posted:Bibi Haniffa posted:Mitwah posted:ian posted:1. LBI Estate will be close - it will be announce tomorrow.
.
The PPP/C had closed LBI for more than a decade now. When did they reopen it?
Approximately 800 sugar workers from LBI estate will be losing their jobs. Listen people I understand that sugar is not a profitable business, but it is a foreign exchange earner. That is why Jagdeo kept these estates open. If the economy doesn't have foreign exchange it will crash and burn. Unless we find a new source of foreign exchange we cannot close all these estates. Guyana will be heading for economic disaster!
Make product "A" to earn foreign exchange but keep getting annual losses and see if you should be in business. Foreign Exchange earner is not the issue here HANIFFA. It's about selling 1 lb of sugar at 1/5th the price. In fact Guyana can shut down its sugar industry completely and import US sugar cheaper. Laborers can be retrained in industries where we can get foreign investment with high value-added and better educated jobs. Then these retrained parents can read books to their children instead of drinking and increasing domestic violence.
Kari, you make it sound so simple.it is not so unilinear or unidimensional. I am not certain that it is so simple If the government is unwilling to deal with or show that there are short term adjustment issues that must be addressed and are prepared to implement those short term adjustment policies, then people will be concerned and express those concerns in whatever forum exist and in what ever ways are available to them.
advise us here on some of the high value products and industries, present a cost benefit analysis to show that they will be profitable and the amount of labour they will employ, what short term incentives they will need from the Guyanese government the Rate of return for investors in these industries, a market analysis, etc. Maybe you can be one of the advisers in the diaspora. Talk is cheap!
yes, foreign exchange is a consideration. Any competent economist will tell you that. Also, which agricultural industry in the US does not receive government support in one form or another. Furthermore, what of the billions that the PNC took from the sugar industry to spend on I advised projects when sugar was profitable, money that could have been used to modernize the industry, instead of the limited stopgap funding from the Europeans. Yes, the PPP government made mistakes as did other previous governments. Plentry of blame to go around but it is of little consolation to the workers who might or would lose their jobs.
workers from Wales are still awaiting the plans to be announced on the adjustment plans. I think that the coalition seems to operate on the premise that "not my business, not my supporters."
Zed posted:Kari posted:Bibi Haniffa posted:Mitwah posted:ian posted:1. LBI Estate will be close - it will be announce tomorrow.
.
The PPP/C had closed LBI for more than a decade now. When did they reopen it?
Approximately 800 sugar workers from LBI estate will be losing their jobs. Listen people I understand that sugar is not a profitable business, but it is a foreign exchange earner. That is why Jagdeo kept these estates open. If the economy doesn't have foreign exchange it will crash and burn. Unless we find a new source of foreign exchange we cannot close all these estates. Guyana will be heading for economic disaster!
Make product "A" to earn foreign exchange but keep getting annual losses and see if you should be in business. Foreign Exchange earner is not the issue here HANIFFA. It's about selling 1 lb of sugar at 1/5th the price. In fact Guyana can shut down its sugar industry completely and import US sugar cheaper. Laborers can be retrained in industries where we can get foreign investment with high value-added and better educated jobs. Then these retrained parents can read books to their children instead of drinking and increasing domestic violence.
Kari, you make it sound so simple.it is not so unilinear or unidimensional. I am not certain that it is so simple If the government is unwilling to deal with or show that there are short term adjustment issues that must be addressed and are prepared to implement those short term adjustment policies, then people will be concerned and express those concerns in whatever forum exist and in what ever ways are available to them.
advise us here on some of the high value products and industries, present a cost benefit analysis to show that they will be profitable and the amount of labour they will employ, what short term incentives they will need from the Guyanese government the Rate of return for investors in these industries, a market analysis, etc. Maybe you can be one of the advisers in the diaspora. Talk is cheap!
yes, foreign exchange is a consideration. Any competent economist will tell you that. Also, which agricultural industry in the US does not receive government support in one form or another. Furthermore, what of the billions that the PNC took from the sugar industry to spend on I advised projects when sugar was profitable, money that could have been used to modernize the industry, instead of the limited stopgap funding from the Europeans. Yes, the PPP government made mistakes as did other previous governments. Plentry of blame to go around but it is of little consolation to the workers who might or would lose their jobs.
workers from Wales are still awaiting the plans to be announced on the adjustment plans. I think that the coalition seems to operate on the premise that "not my business, not my supporters."
On Point!!!!! Nice to see that others understand the macroeconomic dynamics of Guyana's economy. Jagdeo gets it. Most people don't. Including the new coalition government. Are any of their 34 advisors economists? It doesn't seem so.
Bibi Haniffa posted:Zed posted:Kari posted:Bibi Haniffa posted:Mitwah posted:ian posted:1. LBI Estate will be close - it will be announce tomorrow.
.
The PPP/C had closed LBI for more than a decade now. When did they reopen it?
Approximately 800 sugar workers from LBI estate will be losing their jobs. Listen people I understand that sugar is not a profitable business, but it is a foreign exchange earner. That is why Jagdeo kept these estates open. If the economy doesn't have foreign exchange it will crash and burn. Unless we find a new source of foreign exchange we cannot close all these estates. Guyana will be heading for economic disaster!
Make product "A" to earn foreign exchange but keep getting annual losses and see if you should be in business. Foreign Exchange earner is not the issue here HANIFFA. It's about selling 1 lb of sugar at 1/5th the price. In fact Guyana can shut down its sugar industry completely and import US sugar cheaper. Laborers can be retrained in industries where we can get foreign investment with high value-added and better educated jobs. Then these retrained parents can read books to their children instead of drinking and increasing domestic violence.
Kari, you make it sound so simple.it is not so unilinear or unidimensional. I am not certain that it is so simple If the government is unwilling to deal with or show that there are short term adjustment issues that must be addressed and are prepared to implement those short term adjustment policies, then people will be concerned and express those concerns in whatever forum exist and in what ever ways are available to them.
advise us here on some of the high value products and industries, present a cost benefit analysis to show that they will be profitable and the amount of labour they will employ, what short term incentives they will need from the Guyanese government the Rate of return for investors in these industries, a market analysis, etc. Maybe you can be one of the advisers in the diaspora. Talk is cheap!
yes, foreign exchange is a consideration. Any competent economist will tell you that. Also, which agricultural industry in the US does not receive government support in one form or another. Furthermore, what of the billions that the PNC took from the sugar industry to spend on I advised projects when sugar was profitable, money that could have been used to modernize the industry, instead of the limited stopgap funding from the Europeans. Yes, the PPP government made mistakes as did other previous governments. Plentry of blame to go around but it is of little consolation to the workers who might or would lose their jobs.
workers from Wales are still awaiting the plans to be announced on the adjustment plans. I think that the coalition seems to operate on the premise that "not my business, not my supporters."
On Point!!!!! Nice to see that others understand the macroeconomic dynamics of Guyana's economy. Jagdeo gets it. Most people don't. Including the new coalition government. Are any of their 34 advisors economists? It doesn't seem so.
Jagdeo gets it because he is a trained Economist.
The rest who don't get it are trashed can potty mouth.
Bibi Haniffa posted:Zed posted:Kari posted:Bibi Haniffa posted:Mitwah posted:ian posted:1. LBI Estate will be close - it will be announce tomorrow.
.
The PPP/C had closed LBI for more than a decade now. When did they reopen it?
Approximately 800 sugar workers from LBI estate will be losing their jobs. Listen people I understand that sugar is not a profitable business, but it is a foreign exchange earner. That is why Jagdeo kept these estates open. If the economy doesn't have foreign exchange it will crash and burn. Unless we find a new source of foreign exchange we cannot close all these estates. Guyana will be heading for economic disaster!
Make product "A" to earn foreign exchange but keep getting annual losses and see if you should be in business. Foreign Exchange earner is not the issue here HANIFFA. It's about selling 1 lb of sugar at 1/5th the price. In fact Guyana can shut down its sugar industry completely and import US sugar cheaper. Laborers can be retrained in industries where we can get foreign investment with high value-added and better educated jobs. Then these retrained parents can read books to their children instead of drinking and increasing domestic violence.
Kari, you make it sound so simple.it is not so unilinear or unidimensional. I am not certain that it is so simple If the government is unwilling to deal with or show that there are short term adjustment issues that must be addressed and are prepared to implement those short term adjustment policies, then people will be concerned and express those concerns in whatever forum exist and in what ever ways are available to them.
advise us here on some of the high value products and industries, present a cost benefit analysis to show that they will be profitable and the amount of labour they will employ, what short term incentives they will need from the Guyanese government the Rate of return for investors in these industries, a market analysis, etc. Maybe you can be one of the advisers in the diaspora. Talk is cheap!
yes, foreign exchange is a consideration. Any competent economist will tell you that. Also, which agricultural industry in the US does not receive government support in one form or another. Furthermore, what of the billions that the PNC took from the sugar industry to spend on I advised projects when sugar was profitable, money that could have been used to modernize the industry, instead of the limited stopgap funding from the Europeans. Yes, the PPP government made mistakes as did other previous governments. Plentry of blame to go around but it is of little consolation to the workers who might or would lose their jobs.
workers from Wales are still awaiting the plans to be announced on the adjustment plans. I think that the coalition seems to operate on the premise that "not my business, not my supporters."
On Point!!!!! Nice to see that others understand the macroeconomic dynamics of Guyana's economy. Jagdeo gets it. Most people don't. Including the new coalition government. Are any of their 34 advisors economists? It doesn't seem so.
Y'all young rass really lazy. Old Gilbakka wasting precious moments just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling till he reach the latest comment. Why y'all don't tek time and prune away the previous comments and just retain the portion you're addressing? It gets frustrating just rolling and rolling and scrolling down and down.....
Looko, me nah cut off anything hey. Y'all can scroll like rass to reach this post.
Zed, When the cost of producing 1 lb of sugar in Guyana was US20 cents and the world market price was around US5 cents, Guyana was shielded from this economic disadvantage by protected markets. We had guaranteed markets above US22 cents a pound for both the US contract and the EU contract. The larger EU contract has been over with several years now and I'm uncertain of the US guaranteed contract.
As far as reducing cost per pound, one can look at the irrigation and drainage efficiencies as well as cost of soil-enriching inputs. You can also look at more crop rotation per year (if it's scientifically feasible). The point is that world market pricing is influenced by government subsidies of the producer countries and the maerket makers like Tate & Lyle and Domino's.
Regarding value-added, education-rich sectors, Guyana could have captured some of the industries that went to Barbados and Trinidad for for technology consulting by companies like HP and Microsoft (we do have a wonderful IAST at the UG campus and smarter people than the rest of the Caribbean), as well as back-end processing. The telco disaster by the fire sale of terrestrial communications to AT&T by Hoyte did not help and wireless broadband was costly so there can be some excuse here. You can see what is being done in the light manufacturing sector with by products of rice. We could have had a Hershey's plant in Guyana like Charles has in Trinidad and who knows we could have been selling these same products that are imported by Suriname and Venezuela. Look at the furniture industry and wood-related by products. We have the raw materialks but continue to sell logs and don't have much treatment facilities. Look at the fisheries sector and those gilbaka that comes to the Korean markets in Richmond ill. Think of what we can do in Guyana with fish before they come to these shores. Goat meat can be landed in New York for about US1 and are being sold for US$4 in Richmond Hill.
It calls for aggressive thinking on moving the Guyanese worker to a level of job that has more of an education input. Instead of cutting cane these same workers can be engaged in more brain-stimulating jobs. It means a fiscal and industrial policy that maybe Stanley Ming and Eric Phillips (two QC alums) of the Reform Party postulated. Amn economic zone that can attract foreign investors perhaps? After the security situation and money laundering laws are in place perhaps - something that were conspicuously lacking in the 2000s because economic activity was tall buildings in Georgetown and a lot of narco runnings?
ian posted:Jagdeo gets it because he is a trained Economist.
The rest who don't get it are trashed can potty mouth.
Jagdeo addressed Guyana's macro-economic situation early on as Finance Minister and as President. These are really the debt write-offs of heavily indebted nations and other multilateral loans. He invested in housing and physical infrastructure. What he needed to do was to transform Guyana's economic dependence on primary commodities and focus on technical training/retraining and attracting foreign capital. the 2000s drug war and instability did not help. The energy sector has possibilities but the 2008 financial crisis and the subsequent fracking-induced drop in pricing did not help. Why did we miss the technology train, eh? Jagdeo was in the middle of this as it zoomed past Guyana.
Kari posted:Zed, When the cost of producing 1 lb of sugar in Guyana was US20 cents and the world market price was around US5 cents, Guyana was shielded from this economic disadvantage by protected markets. We had guaranteed markets above US22 cents a pound for both the US contract and the EU contract. The larger EU contract has been over with several years now and I'm uncertain of the US guaranteed contract.
As far as reducing cost per pound, one can look at the irrigation and drainage efficiencies as well as cost of soil-enriching inputs. You can also look at more crop rotation per year (if it's scientifically feasible). The point is that world market pricing is influenced by government subsidies of the producer countries and the maerket makers like Tate & Lyle and Domino's.
Regarding value-added, education-rich sectors, Guyana could have captured some of the industries that went to Barbados and Trinidad for for technology consulting by companies like HP and Microsoft (we do have a wonderful IAST at the UG campus and smarter people than the rest of the Caribbean), as well as back-end processing. The telco disaster by the fire sale of terrestrial communications to AT&T by Hoyte did not help and wireless broadband was costly so there can be some excuse here. You can see what is being done in the light manufacturing sector with by products of rice. We could have had a Hershey's plant in Guyana like Charles has in Trinidad and who knows we could have been selling these same products that are imported by Suriname and Venezuela. Look at the furniture industry and wood-related by products. We have the raw materialks but continue to sell logs and don't have much treatment facilities. Look at the fisheries sector and those gilbaka that comes to the Korean markets in Richmond ill. Think of what we can do in Guyana with fish before they come to these shores. Goat meat can be landed in New York for about US1 and are being sold for US$4 in Richmond Hill.
It calls for aggressive thinking on moving the Guyanese worker to a level of job that has more of an education input. Instead of cutting cane these same workers can be engaged in more brain-stimulating jobs. It means a fiscal and industrial policy that maybe Stanley Ming and Eric Phillips (two QC alums) of the Reform Party postulated. Amn economic zone that can attract foreign investors perhaps? After the security situation and money laundering laws are in place perhaps - something that were conspicuously lacking in the 2000s because economic activity was tall buildings in Georgetown and a lot of narco runnings?
Stanley Ming is a big dunce. He has no post- secondary education. He must have barely scraped by at QC. Go and take a look at the crazy reforms he is proposing. It's on YouTube. He has all these pie in the sky scenarios which make no sense and his numbers don't add up. I can't believe he was an MP. He should stick to riding motor bikes!
Actually, I'm yet to see the Stanley Ming video. I also know that Eric Phillips was not the same person I knew and looked up to at QC. I merely mentioned their ideas as it is different from a light manufacturing, value-added sense.
I hope you read the other non-Stanley Ming parts above.
Kari posted:ian posted:Jagdeo gets it because he is a trained Economist.
The rest who don't get it are trashed can potty mouth.
Jagdeo addressed Guyana's macro-economic situation early on as Finance Minister and as President. These are really the debt write-offs of heavily indebted nations and other multilateral loans. He invested in housing and physical infrastructure. What he needed to do was to transform Guyana's economic dependence on primary commodities and focus on technical training/retraining and attracting foreign capital. the 2000s drug war and instability did not help. The energy sector has possibilities but the 2008 financial crisis and the subsequent fracking-induced drop in pricing did not help. Why did we miss the technology train, eh? Jagdeo was in the middle of this as it zoomed past Guyana.
Paul Samuelson of MIT simplified Keynes for us in his seminal book "Economics" opening up macro economics as a discipline for us. They definitely did not use that book at Lumumba U so macro economics is alien to Jagdeo. He was doing on the job training. He consequently missed our on a coherent strategy for us that would have balanced, small business, manufacture, diversity in agriculture and technology change for us. IN stead he focused on large boutique build outs as the Skeldon factory, the airport, the stadium, the Marriott and bridge...all that failed to produced any multiplier effect in the economy because the money did not seep into the economy. The ingredients for a multiplier effect as TK noted; the marginal propensity to consume, or to increase savings called the marginal propensity to save were completely absent from the system because foreign contractors and workers hogged the money and none trickled in. We still owe for it all.
Kari, thanks for your reply and suggestions that the government can take regarding the sugar industry.additionally. Thanks for recognizing the relationship between pricing and subsidies. Another factor is monopolization by companies in the selling of commodities.
When people ask me about principles of economic development, the first thing I tell them is that it happens if you keep the money from primary products (agricultural, minerals, ) in the country as long as possible, if you build value. Yes, the ratio between the price of agricultural products versus manufacturing products has declined over periods of time, but for a while now, because of increase in demands, there has been lots of fluctuations.
It is easy for us to say that we should do this or that or we should have done this or that. The economic environment is very dynamic and the decision making matrices are too complex to make definitive statements unless we reduce many of the varables. We can look back and use some if the variables to make some comments, but then again we have to limit the variables and give our own particular weights to these variables. Yes, we think we know some of the things we need to do, but it is not so linear.
yes, we could have had this or that industry. But, the bottom line is the rate of return. If investors, taking account of all the input factors and revenue stream, after doing a cost benefit analysis, etc see they can make a profit in a particular endeavour within a particular time frame, they will invest. Instability as a factor shortens the payback period and increases the rate of return. Sothe question is why not in Guyana, why somewhere else? What are the factors that tip investors away from Guyana. Government?, Population? Power cost? Core market size? Labour cost? Tax structure?, etc.
Look at what is happening to St. Kitts and some of the Caricom nations. They moved away from sugar to financial services. Now, that sector is not as secure any more and their tourism sector, though at time good is often negatively impacted by the international economy. See how Alberta, which is a knowledge based economy is doing with the downturn in oil price, actually, the whole Canadian economy. Not so easy to diversify.
Have other points to mention but I need to go. Have a good day.
Stormborn posted:Paul Samuelson of MIT simplified Keynes for us in his seminal book "Economics" opening up macro economics as a discipline for us. They definitely did not use that book at Lumumba U so macro economics is alien to Jagdeo. He was doing on the job training. He consequently missed our on a coherent strategy for us that would have balanced, small business, manufacture, diversity in agriculture and technology change for us. IN stead he focused on large boutique build outs as the Skeldon factory, the airport, the stadium, the Marriott and bridge...all that failed to produced any multiplier effect in the economy because the money did not seep into the economy. The ingredients for a multiplier effect as TK noted; the marginal propensity to consume, or to increase savings called the marginal propensity to save were completely absent from the system because foreign contractors and workers hogged the money and none trickled in. We still owe for it all.
Stormie, you should have listened to my hour-and-a-half long interview on spotlight TV back in 1997 with Jagdeo (Presidential candidate) and Ramotar (General-Secretary), and you would have understood Patrice Lumumba-trained Jagdeo's macro-economic views of Guyana at that time. Your inference on large boutique build-outs like Skeldon sugar factory and the Providence Stadium and their lack of multiplier effects do not paint a true picture.
Kari posted:Stormborn posted:Paul Samuelson of MIT simplified Keynes for us in his seminal book "Economics" opening up macro economics as a discipline for us. They definitely did not use that book at Lumumba U so macro economics is alien to Jagdeo. He was doing on the job training. He consequently missed our on a coherent strategy for us that would have balanced, small business, manufacture, diversity in agriculture and technology change for us. IN stead he focused on large boutique build outs as the Skeldon factory, the airport, the stadium, the Marriott and bridge...all that failed to produced any multiplier effect in the economy because the money did not seep into the economy. The ingredients for a multiplier effect as TK noted; the marginal propensity to consume, or to increase savings called the marginal propensity to save were completely absent from the system because foreign contractors and workers hogged the money and none trickled in. We still owe for it all.
Stormie, you should have listened to my hour-and-a-half long interview on spotlight TV back in 1997 with Jagdeo (Presidential candidate) and Ramotar (General-Secretary), and you would have understood Patrice Lumumba-trained Jagdeo's macro-economic views of Guyana at that time. Your inference on large boutique build-outs like Skeldon sugar factory and the Providence Stadium and their lack of multiplier effects do not paint a true picture.
Hey Kari, if you have a link of the video, can you please send it.
Kudos to you!!!
Zed posted:Kari, thanks for your reply and suggestions that the government can take regarding the sugar industry.additionally. Thanks for recognizing the relationship between pricing and subsidies. Another factor is monopolization by companies in the selling of commodities.
........................................................................................................
Have other points to mention but I need to go. Have a good day.
Zed, I was not insinuating that the micro-managing of the economy is what will turn things around. Instead it's the Big Picture vision and that's what we need our leaders to do. When our politicians take office they are more about managing than being transformative. Jagdeo was transformative on the social end of things - the placid Indian became a feared Indian. What you would imagine is someone saying, enough of this dependence on sugar that does not even lift the intellectual being of these workers. Even if some labor has to suffer, let's take a hit and transform this state. Look at what Margret Thatcher and Ronald Regan did to break up labor's hold on the economy in the early 80s. Let a Guyanese leader say to the nation we will have to struggle some in the short term by abandoning what we know. Let's do the things we need to know, and as John Kennedy said not because they are easy but because they are hard.
How difficult would it have been in 2003 to accept the UK, USA and Canadian offer to help with the security situation instead of allowing an internecine warfare between the FF and Phantom to create an insecure Guyana that turned away potential foreign capital? How easy would it have been to create an economic zone and to lobby the NY State to process traffic tickets at Turkeyn instead of Bangalore? Make a dela with ATN to strengthen Guyana's Broadband capabililties and get HP and Microsoft to set up offices to service their products in the Caribbean. Think of the medical affiliations we could have had with American Medical institutions. All it needed was a vision and if you have to use Madison Avenue or Manhattan companies to lobby for these investments so be it.
ian posted:Kari posted:Stormie, you should have listened to my hour-and-a-half long interview on spotlight TV back in 1997 with Jagdeo (Presidential candidate) and Ramotar (General-Secretary), and you would have understood Patrice Lumumba-trained Jagdeo's macro-economic views of Guyana at that time. Your inference on large boutique build-outs like Skeldon sugar factory and the Providence Stadium and their lack of multiplier effects do not paint a true picture.
Hey Kari, if you have a link of the video, can you please send it.
Kudos to you!!!
It wasn't digitized and I do not have the Video cassette.
Kari posted:ian posted:Kari posted:Stormie, you should have listened to my hour-and-a-half long interview on spotlight TV back in 1997 with Jagdeo (Presidential candidate) and Ramotar (General-Secretary), and you would have understood Patrice Lumumba-trained Jagdeo's macro-economic views of Guyana at that time. Your inference on large boutique build-outs like Skeldon sugar factory and the Providence Stadium and their lack of multiplier effects do not paint a true picture.
Hey Kari, if you have a link of the video, can you please send it.
Kudos to you!!!
It wasn't digitized and I do not have the Video cassette.
Ok.
It's unfortunate Guyana did not benefit from the expertise of you guys.. we would have been the role model of the Caribbean.
Bibi Haniffa posted:Mars posted:Guyana will be heading for economic disaster!Jagdeo's name should never be mentioned with anything good related to sugar. He closed sugar estates too and you clowns didn't complain. He wasted hundreds of millions in the Skeldon white elephant. Experts in the sugar industry advised him that the Chinese should not be given the contract to build Skeldon as the contractors had no experience in building sugar factories. He went with the Chinese because the kickbacks were the biggest for him and today the Guyanese people are left to drag along the Skeldon Goadie. He appointed his friends in positions to run sugar and all they did was mismanage the industry into the ground and fill their pockets with money. The government of the day is trying to clean up the massive dump that Jagdeo left behind. The destruction of the sugar industry is Jagdeo's legacy.
Mars - this is more stupid than stupid. Are you sure you went to QC? Your mind is so biased and racist, you fail to see the economic implications of what is happening in the sugar industry. I have deduced that your presence on this board is to spread hatred and bigotry. Shame!!!!!
1. What exactly is racist here?
2. What exactly is dumb here?
Indeed Jagdeo did waste funds on the skeldon factory which INCREASED costs, and therefore losses, rather than reduce. There was massive corruption involving the Chinese and the sugar factory.
At this present time Guyana cannot afford to support a company which is losing hundreds of millions of dollars annually. NOT at a time when a viable turn around for GuySICKO with its present structure is not possible.
There are only two alternatives.
1. Close down the ENTIRE Guysuco
OR
2. Attempt to save it by closing down its least profitable operations. BEFORE 2011 there was a plan afoot to shut down the ENTIRE Demerara sugar operations, and concentrate sugar production in Berbice. The only reason why it wasn't done was because the PPP was terrified that the loss of thousands of jobs among its core support base would jeopardize its chances.
AT this point in time the only reason why any one would buy GuySICKO is because of the value of the land.
Even yuji (or cobra, or another of the brown bai KKK) was showing his azz by pretending that he could afford to buy Guysuco. When pressed he admitted that it would be only for the land. Hypocrite that he was he didn't admit that upon purchase 100% f the labor force would be terminated.
This is what Jagdeo brought upon the industry, and indeed its only your Indocentricity which blocks you from admitting this.
cain posted:During a discussion in another thread, I was reminded sugar is necessary to produce rum, unless they plan on getting it from another source.
Let DDL buy the part of Guysuco that they want, and then begin to transition the rest of the industry to more profitable ventures.
Those who scream otherwise merely fool themselves.
Bibi Haniffa posted:caribny posted:ian posted:Reduce the Indos majority.
The PPP already saw to it that Indians are no longer the majority. Under the PPP the Corentyne has seen its population drop by more than 30%.
Carib - can we stick to the subject at hand? If you wish to discuss racism, please start another thread and post your racist rants there. If you have nothing of value to say, please shaddup!
I note that you say nothing to your fellow racist Ian, who predicts an Indo holocaust.
You see this is why I consider you a racist!
Kari posted:. Laborers can be retrained in industries where we can get foreign investment with high value-added and better educated jobs. Then these retrained parents can read books to their children instead of drinking and increasing domestic violence.
This is easier said then done. In fact Hillary is making Bernie look like a jackass when the latter wants to shut down oil, gas, and coal, and then put displaced workers on welfare.
The transition will need to be to get sugar workers transitioned into other agricultural pursuits, where there should be some direct skills transferability. Given that many are already not 100% dependent on sugar that is realistic.
The open issue would be whether these former cane cutters will have the business skills to run a farming enterprise, given that no subsidies to underwrite inefficiency would be available.
Getting illiterates to read to their kids isn't. The vast majority of Guyanese are functionally illiterate. Since 1976 Guyana has presided over the worst educational system in the English speaking Caribbean. Our abysmal CXC results in Math and English are evidence of this.
ian posted:
It appears APNU have target Indians who are PPP supporters.
Did you scream when Jagdeo threw thousands of blacks out of work when he sold off bauxite to the Chinese?
NO!! So your opinions are irrelevant, and your attitude deeply hypocritical and evidence of your inbred racist nature.
kp posted:If according to you LBI was closed, then why 800 people showed up for work everyday
They were in field operations. Guysuco now continues its 2011 plan of closing down even those operations.
How come I didn't hear your wails in 2011 when Jagdeo concocted those plans, and sold off other Demerara sugar lands to his wealthy real estate tycoon friends?
Zed posted:Also, which agricultural industry in the US does not receive government support in one form or another.
Are you aware that the USA is the richest nation in the Americas, and Guyana one of the poorest? In any case farm subsidies in the USA is indicative of crony capitalism as ordinary farmers don't benefit. Only wealthy land owners do.
By the time Jagdeo had destroyed Guysuco the PNC had been out of power for more than a decade.
Stop beating that child as the screams have become quite irritating.
Bibi Haniffa posted:Jagdeo gets it. Most people don't. Including the new coalition government. Are any of their 34 advisors economists? It doesn't seem so.
What does Jagdeo get? He destroyed sugar. He destroyed the manufacturing sector. He encourage rice farmers top grow rice, and then couldn't find markets for them, so resorted on Venezuela, an enemy to bail him out. He sold off rights to the Chinese to export raw lumber.
So what then did Jagdeo achieve? Please describe his plans to successfully transform Guyana's over dependence on the export of a few RAW commodities.
Zed posted:. I think that the coalition seems to operate on the premise that "not my business, not my supporters."
And what did YOU say when Jagdeo had that attitude towards Linden, and Kwakwani? NOTHING.
Kari posted:
Regarding value-added, education-rich sectors, Guyana could have captured some of the industries that went to Barbados and Trinidad for for technology consulting by companies like HP and Microsoft (we do have a wonderful IAST at the UG campus and smarter people than the rest of the Caribbean), as well as back-end processing.
These jobs are for graduates of the better high schools who don't move on to university.
NOT for cane cutters who struggle to even spell their names, and probably cannot fill out the job application form without massive assistance.
You have to understand that while Guyana needs upper mid level jobs, directed at its urban populations, it also needs low end jobs for BOTH its urban and its rural populations. The average Guyanese is functionally ILLITERATE!
My question to you is why don't Guyanese business men have the enterprise of their counterparts from the DR?
That nation has shown the most rapid economic growth and transformation of any Caribbean nation. 50 years ago almost on par with Haiti, now not too far behind T&T, and this without the latter's massive high value resource base.
The DR gov'ts have been just as corrupt and as incompetent as those of Guyana. Recognizing this their private sector has been forced to step up to the plate. Ours just focus on shopping malls, speculative real estate and other non productive activities.
Zed posted:
Look at what is happening to St. Kitts and some of the Caricom nations.
Have other points to mention but I need to go. Have a good day.
Not a good example. When they shut down sugar only about 1,000 locals were still in it. The bulk of the cane cutters were Guyanese. They had no reason to care about what happened to the Guyanese.
In fact they have their own challenges, and have had to rely on schemes like selling passports and encouraging offshore medical schools, in addition, of course to tourism. They also have assets that Guyana lacks, and that is located within a short distance of St Thomas, and St Maarten, the two largest cruise ports, so they have grown that sector.
Our problem is that we have a very un enterprising private sector. I laugh when I read endlessly of "hard working Indians", "blacks cannot even run a candy store", and other racist rant which would suggest that Guyana's private sector is the most dynamic in the Caribbean.
In fact Guyana has the laziest private sector among the larger Caribbean islands. It is possible that even Cuba's own is more dynamic, even given that island's communist dictatorship.
Look at how we scream that it is the sole responsibility of the gov't. It is the private sector's responsibility to identify the opportunities, and to solicit the support of the gov't, where appropriate. And then to insist upon the gov't providing an enabling environment.
Instead our soup licking private sector ran behind Jagdeo for gravy, and now attempt to do the same with Joe Harmon.
Kari posted:. Jagdeo was transformative on the social end of things - the placid Indian became a feared Indian.
And yet we have the "black man a kill ahbe" from the brown bai KKK, and even screams from you that blacks must apologize to Indians.
In fact an Indo over class used black criminals to protect THEIR own position.
Kari posted:Zed posted:Kari, thanks for your reply and suggestions that the government can take regarding the sugar industry.additionally. Thanks for recognizing the relationship between pricing and subsidies. Another factor is monopolization by companies in the selling of commodities.
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Have other points to mention but I need to go. Have a good day.
Zed, I was not insinuating that the micro-managing of the economy is what will turn things around. Instead it's the Big Picture vision and that's what we need our leaders to do. When our politicians take office they are more about managing than being transformative. Jagdeo was transformative on the social end of things - the placid Indian became a feared Indian. What you would imagine is someone saying, enough of this dependence on sugar that does not even lift the intellectual being of these workers. Even if some labor has to suffer, let's take a hit and transform this state. Look at what Margret Thatcher and Ronald Regan did to break up labor's hold on the economy in the early 80s. Let a Guyanese leader say to the nation we will have to struggle some in the short term by abandoning what we know. Let's do the things we need to know, and as John Kennedy said not because they are easy but because they are hard.
How difficult would it have been in 2003 to accept the UK, USA and Canadian offer to help with the security situation instead of allowing an internecine warfare between the FF and Phantom to create an insecure Guyana that turned away potential foreign capital? How easy would it have been to create an economic zone and to lobby the NY State to process traffic tickets at Turkeyn instead of Bangalore? Make a dela with ATN to strengthen Guyana's Broadband capabililties and get HP and Microsoft to set up offices to service their products in the Caribbean. Think of the medical affiliations we could have had with American Medical institutions. All it needed was a vision and if you have to use Madison Avenue or Manhattan companies to lobby for these investments so be it.
Kari, your points are valid and I certainly agree with you. Two of the difficulties I have found here since my return are the dependence on looking for easy solutions to complex problems and the inability to effectly implement a strategic plan. These, added with the reluctance to take those bold steps and the over reliance on the political short-term dimension retards development in Guyana.
Caribny, I was not a member of this site until last year-furthermore, I was, like so many involved for many years in trying to make a living and providing for my family.
I am here now so tell me exactly what Jagdeo did with the closing down of bauxite. We have had Sam hinds version. What is yours?.
Caribj we were assuming you were a racist, with your rebuttal to ever subject, you have proven to be a KNOW ALL racist jackass. LBI is operating with a reduced staff, in the office, factory and the fields, I know that for a fact, I have people working at LBI, so don't waste time commenting if you don't know the facts.Are you one of Harmon Honorary Advisors?
Zed posted:Kari posted:Zed posted:Kari, thanks for your reply and suggestions that the government can take regarding the sugar industry.additionally. Thanks for recognizing the relationship between pricing and subsidies. Another factor is monopolization by companies in the selling of commodities.
........................................................................................................
Have other points to mention but I need to go. Have a good day.
Zed, I was not insinuating that the micro-managing of the economy is what will turn things around. Instead it's the Big Picture vision and that's what we need our leaders to do. When our politicians take office they are more about managing than being transformative. Jagdeo was transformative on the social end of things - the placid Indian became a feared Indian. What you would imagine is someone saying, enough of this dependence on sugar that does not even lift the intellectual being of these workers. Even if some labor has to suffer, let's take a hit and transform this state. Look at what Margret Thatcher and Ronald Regan did to break up labor's hold on the economy in the early 80s. Let a Guyanese leader say to the nation we will have to struggle some in the short term by abandoning what we know. Let's do the things we need to know, and as John Kennedy said not because they are easy but because they are hard.
How difficult would it have been in 2003 to accept the UK, USA and Canadian offer to help with the security situation instead of allowing an internecine warfare between the FF and Phantom to create an insecure Guyana that turned away potential foreign capital? How easy would it have been to create an economic zone and to lobby the NY State to process traffic tickets at Turkeyn instead of Bangalore? Make a dela with ATN to strengthen Guyana's Broadband capabililties and get HP and Microsoft to set up offices to service their products in the Caribbean. Think of the medical affiliations we could have had with American Medical institutions. All it needed was a vision and if you have to use Madison Avenue or Manhattan companies to lobby for these investments so be it.
Kari, your points are valid and I certainly agree with you. Two of the difficulties I have found here since my return are the dependence on looking for easy solutions to complex problems and the inability to effectly implement a strategic plan. These, added with the reluctance to take those bold steps and the over reliance on the political short-term dimension retards development in Guyana.
Zed, you are a very bright guy. I like this exchange between you and Kari though he is a little off mark and I suspect that has to do with the fact that he does not live in Guyana. Nevertheless, this is excellent analysis. I hope the low IQ people like Cain, Django, Stormy, and Mitwah read this and learn something. Nice work guys!
Bibi Haniffa posted:Zed, you are a very bright guy. I like this exchange between you and Kari though he is a little off mark and I suspect that has to do with the fact that he does not live in Guyana. Nevertheless, this is excellent analysis. I hope thelow IQ people like Cain, Django, Stormy, and Mitwah read this and learn something. Nice work guys!
Sorry maam you don't know us,judging using GNI standard is poor thinking from you.
I have to agree with Guyana's Duke of Edinburgh on the Harmon issue it shows that the man's political instincts are still there even in a limited capacity.
kp posted:Caribj we were assuming you were a racist, with your rebuttal to ever subject, you have proven to be a KNOW ALL racist jackass. LBI is operating with a reduced staff, in the office, factory and the fields, I know that for a fact, I have people working at LBI, so don't waste time commenting if you don't know the facts.Are you one of Harmon Honorary Advisors?
It was the plan in 2011 to shut down LBI, and in fact the factory was shut down. So why don't you comment on that rather than engaging in your usual brown bai KKK bigotry?
Jagdeo destroyed Guysuco, but its your own racism which leads you to refuse to admit that!
Zed posted:
I am here now so tell me exactly what Jagdeo did with the closing down of bauxite. We have had Sam hinds version. What is yours?.
We have the version of those who actually live in Linden. Jagdeo sold Guymine and abandoned Lindeners when the Chinese laid off the vast majority of them. They were left to their own devices as to how they would earn a living. When they complained the PPP chorus screamed "blackman lazy"
FACT. Guysuco cannot survive in its current state. FACT. Guysuco;s largest expense is payroll. FACT. Many workers will lose their jobs.
Now those who didn't care one fig about bauxite workers in Linden and Kwakwani, now scream that a full transition plan be put in place.
They should at least have the integrity to admit that the PPP was cruel in how it treated bauxite workers and that the current government shouldn't do the same to sugar. But instead Jagdeo is running around screaming "blackman a kill ahbe" with a straight face, and saying NOTHING about what he did to bauxite.
I would think that there are many versions of exactly what happened with bauxite and what the government response was, what steps they took -if any -to address the needs of workers. I later today, I will try to find the Sam Hinds version from the newspapers and post it so you can give counterpoints for what he is arguing.
JANUARY 24, 2016 | BY KNEWS | FILED UNDER LETTERS
Dear Editor,
The call by Bharrat Jagdeo for meetings to address the issue of the proposed closure of the Wales estate that would affect 1600 workers, were one to examine same through the lens of universal principles, his is a just call. But one wonders whether Jagdeo believes in the call he is making.
It was under his presidency 3000 plus bauxite workers from LINMINE and BERMINE were put on the breadline consistent with his government anti-working class agenda. This act was done in violation of the collective labour agreement (Section 23 (1) of the Trade Union Recognition Act) which saw the transgressing of workersâ rights as enshrined in the Guyana Constitution at Article 147 and 149C.
Today what Jagdeo correctly demands for workers in sugar he trampled with impunity for workers in bauxite.The society, trade unions that represented bauxite workers, and the then opposition PNC were informed about the government's decision to send the workers home (i.e. make them redundant) through the media. The unions thereafter requested to meet with the government but the government never entertained the request. This notwithstanding, after these workers were sent home the unions made and submitted proposals to the government through the Privatisation Unit as to ways and means to save the workers pension plan. This pension plan was worth in excess of $2.5 billion, which was the single largest pool of money owned primarily by Africans.
The government did not even exercise the courtesy of acknowledging receipt of the proposal in as much as it was hand delivered. It then proceeded to break up the pension plan even though proposal was submitted to have a sizable portion of this plan converted into an investment fund. The fund would have made available loans, at reasonable interest rates, to persons living and investing in the bauxite communities which would have ensured their dignity and personal development.
On BERMINE, the workers together with their unions collaborated with an African business group on a joint venture arrangement to buy the company when the government put it up to be privatised. This business group has investment in Latin America, Africa and Asia. The Jagdeo government never acknowledged receipt of the proposal but subsequently handed the company over to their friends and colleagues. The government allowed the calcine kiln at Everton to rot instead of allowing a certain group access to it and maintain production of calcine in the Berbice areas.
The arbitrary decision by the government to shut down LINMINE and BERMINE impacted negatively not only on 3000 plus workers, but their families, businesses that relied on the income of these workers, the communities of Linden, Kwakwani, Ituni, New Amsterdam, and several villages on the East Bank of Berbice.
The resulting economic dislocation has brought serve hardship on workers and their communities, of which they are still to recover from, yet the Jagdeo government did nothing to put in place an economic or development plan to cushion the adverse effects that rained down.
Listening to Jadgeo today he seeks to give the impression that he did not manage the affairs of state in a brutish and inhumane manner. On the matter of sugar, he arbitrarily closed down Diamond and LBI estates and never sought to address the sugar workersâ benefits which caused these workers to publicly protest his administrationâs action. Jagdeo ran roughshod over the nation's affairs, inclusive of its laws and citizensâ wellbeing which he demonstrated no regard for. The APNU+AFC government must use the Jagdeo's government performance as the barometer of what a government must not be.
Lincoln Lewis.
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