Britain freely joined, and can withdraw from, the European Union.

Ha ha ha...welcome 10 years of depression. Welcome back to to the bunker of this sceptered isle I like England but I loved it better as part of europe.

Britons 'took their country back' in Brexit vote: Trump

This is news???!!!

Gurl chile....looks like you're running out of things to post. 

What kinda ISIS news you have to top that????

Just can't leave Trump alone. Dem thinks dey smarter. 

Kari just don't like Trump name mentioned in any news. He hated the man so much that the man will become president of the country he resides in.

Trump is and will continue to be president of his companies/businesses but he will not be THE President of the US_of_A.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

What kinda ISIS news you have to top that????

tch...tch...GNI's resident humorist of the day.....

I am very happy that the English took their country back.

Prashad posted:

I am very happy that the English took their country back.

Fro who? Atillah the Hun? The Romans?

Kari posted:

Prashad posted:

I am very happy that the English took their country back.

Fro who? Atillah the Hun? The Romans?

Nah, dem Islamist!!

^{http://www.theweek.co.uk/eu-referendum}

The pros and cons of leaving the EU

The greatest uncertainty associated with leaving the EU is that no country has ever done it before, so no one can predict the exact result. Nevertheless, many have tried.

Membership fee

Leaving the EU would result in an immediate cost saving, as the country would no longer contribute to the EU budget. Last year, Britain paid in £13bn, but it also received £4.5bn worth of spending, says Full Fact "so the UK's net contribution was £8.5bn". That's about 7 per cent of what the Government spends on the NHS each year.

What's harder to determine is whether the financial advantages of EU membership, such as free trade and inward investment (see below) outweigh the upfront costs.

Trade

The EU is a single market in which no tariffs are imposed on imports and exports between member states. "More than 50 per cent of our exports go to EU countries," says Sky News, "and our membership allows us to have a say over how trading rules are drawn up."

Britain also benefits from trade deals between the EU and other world powers. "The EU is currently negotiating with the US to create the world's biggest free trade area," says the BBC, "something that will be highly beneficial to British business."

Britain risks losing some of that negotiating power by leaving the EU, but it would be free to establish its own trade agreements.

Ukip leader Nigel Farage believes Britain could follow the lead of Norway, which has access to the single market but is not bound by EU laws on areas such as agriculture, justice and home affairs. But others argue that an "amicable divorce" would not be possible. 

"If Britain were to join the Norwegian club," says The Economist, "it would remain bound by virtually all EU regulations, including the working-time directive and almost everything dreamed up in Brussels in future." And it would no longer have any influence on what those regulations said.

Leading Brexit campaigner Boris Johnson, meanwhile, has proposed adopting a Canada-style trade arrangement. "I think we can strike a deal as the Canadians have done based on trade and getting rid of tariffs" and have a "very, very bright future", he said. The idea was quickly dismissed by the PM, who said it would mean "years of painful negotiations and a poorer deal than we have today".

Eurosceptics argue that the vast majority of small and medium sized firms do not trade with the EU but are restricted by a huge regulatory burden imposed from abroad.

A study by the think-tank Open Europe, which wants to see the EU radically reformed, found that the worst-case "Brexit" scenario is that the UK economy loses 2.2 per cent of its total GDP by 2030 (by comparison, the recession of 2008-09 knocked about 6 per cent off UK GDP). However, it says that GDP could rise by 1.6 per cent if the UK was able to negotiate a free trade deal with Europe – ie to maintain the current trade set-up – and pursued "very ambitious deregulation".

Whether other EU countries would offer such generous terms is one of the big unknowns of the debate. Pro-exit campaigners argue that it would be in the interests of other European countries to re-establish free trade, but their opponents suggest that the EU will want to make life hard for Britain in order to discourage further breakaways.

France has said recently that there would be "consequences" for Britain if it left the EU.

Investment

Inward investment is likely to slow in the run-up to the vote, due to the uncertainty of the outcome and its consequences: that's what happened in before the Scottish independence referendum in 2014.

In the longer term, there are diverging views: pro-Europeans think the UK's status as one of the world's biggest financial centres will be diminished if it is no longer seen as a gateway to the EU for the likes of US banks, while Brexit campaigners suggest that, free from EU rules a regulations, Britain could reinvent itself as a Singapore-style supercharged economy.

Fears that car-makers could scale back or even end production in the UK vehicles could no longer be exported tax-free to Europe were underlined by BMW's decision to remind its UK employees at Rolls-Royce and Mini of the "significant benefit" EU membership confers. Likewise, Business for New Europe says tax revenues would drop if companies that do large amounts of business with Europe – particularly banks – moved their headquarters back into the EU.

Barclays, however, has put forward a worst-case scenario that might benefit the Outers. It says the departure of one of the EU's most powerful economies would hit its finances and boost populist anti-EU movements in other countries. This would open a "Pandora's box", says the Daily Telegraph, which could lead to the "collapse of the European project".

The UK would then be seen as a safe haven from those risks, attracting investors, boosting the pound and reducing the risk that Scotland would "leave the relative safety of the UK for an increasingly uncertain EU".

Sovereignty

For Brexiters, sovereignty may seem to be a simple win: few disagree that EU membership involves giving up some control over our own affairs.

Labour MP Kate Hoey says the EU is "an attempt to replace the democratic power of the people with a permanent administration in the interests of big business." Those on the right of the Conservative party may disagree with her emphasis, but they agree that EU institutions have drained power from the British Parliament.

"The trouble is that most of us have no clue as to how the Brussels monolith works, or who's in charge," says Stay or Go, the Connell Guide to the EU referendum. But, it says, we have only ourselves to blame. "We've made it that way" because too many of us "can't be bothered to vote" in European elections.

For those in the Remain camp, EU membership involves a worthwhile trade of sovereignty for influence: in return for agreeing to abide by EU rules, Britain has a seat around the table at which they are set - and, say campaigners, its voice is amplified on the world stage as a result.

"The truth is that pulling up the drawbridge and quitting the EU will not enhance our national sovereignty," says shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn. "All it would do is to weaken it by taking away our power to influence events in an ever more complex and interdependent world."

Nor, they say, would UK sovereignty be absolute if the country withdrew from the EU: the British government would still be bound by membership of Nato, the UN, the World Trade Organisation, and various treaties and agreements with other nations.

Immigration

Under EU law, Britain cannot prevent anyone from another member state coming to live in the country – while Britons benefit from an equivalent right to live and work anywhere else in the EU. The result has been a huge increase in immigration into Britain, particularly from eastern and southern Europe.

According to the Office for National Statistics, there are 942,000 eastern Europeans, Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK, along with 791,000 western Europeans – and 2.93m workers from outside the EU. China and India are the biggest source of foreign workers in the UK.

Inners say that, while the recent pace of immigration has led to some difficulties with housing and service provision, the net effect has been overwhelmingly positive. By contrast, Farage says immigration should be cut dramatically, and the leaving the EU is the only way to "regain control of our borders". Other pro-Brexit campaigners would not necessarily reduce immigration, but say that it should be up to the British Government to set the rules.

David Cameron says that concessions he won during the renegotiation of Britain's EU membership will reduce immigration as new arrivals will receive a lower rate of child benefit. 

Jobs

The effect of leaving the EU on British jobs depends on a complex interplay of the factors above: trade, investment and immigration.

Pro-EU campaigners have suggested that three million jobs could be lost if Britain goes it alone. However, while "figures from the early 2000s suggest around three million jobs are linked to trade with the European Union," says Full Fact, "they don't say they are dependent on the UK being an EU member."

If trade and investment fell post-Brexit, then some of these jobs would be lost – but if they rose, then new jobs would be created.

A drop in immigration would, all else being equal, mean more jobs for the people who remained, but labour shortages could also hold back the economy, reducing its potential for growth.

Stuart Rose, former Marks & Spencer chief executive and a prominent pro-EU campaigner, conceded recently that wages may rise if Britain leaves – which would be good for workers, but less so for their employers.

Writing for the London School of Economics, Professor Adrian Favell says limiting freedom of movement would deter the "brightest and the best" of the continent from coming to Britain and reduce the pool of candidates employers can choose from.

Free movement of people across the EU also opens up job opportunities for British workers seeking to work elsewhere in Europe.

Britain's place in the world

For Outers, leaving the EU will allow Britain to re-establish itself as a truly independent nation with connections to the rest of the world. To Inners, Brexit would result in the country giving up its influence in Europe, turning back the clock and retreating from the global power networks of the 21st century.

Brexit would bring some clear-cut advantages, says The Economist. The UK "would regain control over fishing rights around its coast", for example. But it concludes that the most likely outcome is that Britain would find itself "a scratchy outsider with somewhat limited access to the single market, almost no influence and few friends".

Britain would remain a member of Nato and the UN, but it may be regarded as a less useful partner by its key ally, the US. The American government fears that the "EU referendum is a dangerous gamble that could unravel with disastrous consequences for the entire continent", says The Guardian.

Security

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, who has come out in favour of Brexit, says we are leaving the "door open" to terrorist attacks by remaining in the EU. "This open border does not allow us to check and control people," he says.

However, a dozen senior military figures, including former chiefs of defence staff Lord Bramall and Jock Stirrup, say the opposite. In a letter released by No 10, they argue that the EU is an "increasingly important pillar of our security", especially at a time of instability in the Middle East and in the face of "resurgent Russian nationalism and aggression".

Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has also said the UK benefits from being part Europe, as well as Nato and the United Nations. "It is through the EU that you exchange criminal records and passenger records and work together on counter-terrorism," he said. "We need the collective weight of the EU when you are dealing with Russian aggression or terrorism."

In contrast, Colonel Richard Kemp, writing in The Times, says these "critical bilateral relationships" would persist regardless of membership, and that it is "absurd" to suggest that the EU would put its own citizens, or the UK's, at greater risk by reducing cooperation in the event of Brexit.

"By leaving, we will again be able to determine who does and does not enter the UK," says Kemp, a former head of the international terrorism team at the Cabinet Office. "Failure to do so significantly increases the terrorist threat here, endangers our people and is a betrayal of this country."

How low can the Dow go?  Market close at 260 points deeper in the hole.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

How low can the Dow go?  Market close at 260 points deeper in the hole.

Yeah...Trump wins!

Armageddon...Trump wins!!

The world ends....Trump wins!!!

What does today's market performance has to do with Trump?  

Bibi Haniffa posted:

What does today's market performance has to do with Trump?  

U tell me. U introduced it. This whole thread is about Trump - Brexit is just a sideshow. Trump is the only one who saw it coming and he wins with bad news. So there.....

Bibi Haniffa posted:

How low can the Dow go?  Market close at 260 points deeper in the hole.

The panic will soon end, financial stocks stabilize and the world will focus on overall underlying fundamentals.  Britain will sign good deals with the EU as did the Swiss and Swedes.  However, there will be internal political issues within the UK as it relates to Northern Ireland and Scotland.

Danyael posted:

Ha ha ha...welcome 10 years of depression. Welcome back to to the bunker of this sceptered isle I like England but I loved it better as part of europe.

Well, many Brits see it differently.  You also like Guyana and better under the PNC, but many Guyanese see it differently!  Britain is part of Europe, so are Swiss, Swedes and others.

They will not see 10 years of depression, nonsense.  They will sign great bi-lateral trade deals and their commerce will hardly be affected.  Furthermore, the UK is the biggest, most potent military power in Europe and the EU want that alliance as part of NATO.  A stronger UK means a stronger EU, in or out!

ba$eman posted:

Danyael posted:

Ha ha ha...welcome 10 years of depression. Welcome back to to the bunker of this sceptered isle I like England but I loved it better as part of europe.

Well, many Brits see it differently.  You also like Guyana and better under the PNC, but many Guyanese see it differently!  Britain is part of Europe, so are Swiss, Swedes and others.

They will not see 10 years of depression, nonsense.  They will sign great bi-lateral trade deals and their commerce will hardly be affected.  Furthermore, the UK is the biggest, most potent military power in Europe and the EU want that alliance as part of NATO.  A stronger UK means a stronger EU, in or out!

 That I detest the PPP does not mean i like the PNC. That is your view. Britain is historically of europe but it developed into a sceptered isle that was on to itself and they saw their independence as their salvation from European aggression in the warring states period of the late nineteen and early 20th century. The  unity of Europe ushered in a Pax Europa and cemented a sense of oneness not possible. I  liked the freedom of SCHENGEN that is now lost. I am sure those living in Britain will see the loss more profoundly in that  they cannot experience their kinship with europe  as the new barriers to movement emerges.  This also include preferential trade. The EU said they cannot experience the benefits exclusive of the disadvantages. If there is no safe passage of immigrants across the SCHENGEN per EU rules, British folks cannot freely pass either. And better minds who know the trade agreements insists that this will result in a 2 percent frop in British GDP.

Base.....NATO is basically an American-dominated military pact, and not EU-dominated.

Secondly France is a bigger military power in the nuclear age since the UK basically work closely with the US whose military presence is a good portion of the military assets in the UK.

For the UK to sign trade deals with member countries of the EU, it will have to agree with the 2 things the Brexit folks cite as their reason - free movement of people of the EU among member countries and paying to the annual Brussels budget. 

Now we see that Farage of UKIP is open about immigration being the main factor and now Boris Johnson is trying to walk back on promises to the Brexit folks - including the loss of subsidies to impoverished and depressed economic areas of rural UK and using the Brussels money to pay for the National Health Service.

Meantime the Sterling is taking a pounding - no pun intended.

Britain will review its monetary policy and change the economic rules of the game to deal with this short term hiccup.  Over the course of time, there will be other European countries leaving the EU.

The US green back and Guyana gold are skyrocketing so my GY peeps doing good.  Historically, gold and the US dollar have an inverse relationship.  For the first time they are both going up at the same time.  Changing economic times!

causeBibi Haniffa posted:

Britain will review its monetary policy and change the economic rules of the game to deal with this short term hiccup.  Over the course of time, there will be other European countries leaving the EU.

The US green back and Guyana gold are skyrocketing so my GY peeps doing good.  Historically, gold and the US dollar have an inverse relationship.  For the first time they are both going up at the same time.  Changing economic times!

Because both gold and USD are safe havens.   Swiss Fr already valued up in a -0- interest rate environment.

Britain has a lot of bargaining power with Germany, the defacto had of the EU.  Germany's largest trading partner and trade surplus is with the UK.  Germany will not scrafice that whether the UK is in or out of the EU.  France also has major vested interests with the UK.  And the UK maintains the most potent military outfit in Europe.

The UK could come out in good shape however, the issue is the UK union itself with Scotland and N-Ireland wanting to be part of the EU.