Drugb posted:

 

These are all just a bunch of excuses to cover up your shame of the African roots. 

What cultural creativity are you prattling about? Why don't you just say AfroG cultural creativity, as there is no shared Guyanese culture per say across all 6 races. 

 I am proud of the African component of my creole culture. There are many in terms of our food preparation, speech patterns, music and dancing, etc.  Sorrel drink and the pepper sauce that you consume is AFRICAN! Bet you didn't know that.  Cooking with coconut milk is AFRICAN! Bet you didn't know that. And there are many other Africanisms.  Just look at the body language of Guyanese (including Indo Guyanese), Lots of arm waving and facial expressions. AFRICAN. 

When I was in college and I had a room mate for Ghana I used the term "stupidee stupidee" to describe some one. Who educated me of the fact that this was  a DIRECT translation from Twi.

In fact it is this component that makes a lie of the fact that you and other racists scream that blacks have no culture. 

And in fact you on a daily basis unwittingly engage in this Afro derived culture every time you use any Creolese expression.  Creolese is derived out of a form of pidgin English which was developed in West Africa.  The Africans "Africanized" English to suit their linguistic purposes and this language/dialect spread to the English speaking Caribbean where each society made their own adjustments.

So druggie the MAIN language of the vast majority of Indo Guyanese is an "Africanized" form of English. Yes this was developed so that the vast number of ethnic groups in various regions of Africa could communicate with each other, given that they didn't know each others languages.

Whenever Guyanese gather and sing Guyanese folks songs (Which EVERY Guyanese knows) there are singing Afro Caribbean music.  Why don't we also sing Indo Guyanese folks songs that we know exist. Because people like you are ashamed of every thing that is Indo Guyanese and want to slave behind pretending to be hidden, so few Guyanese are exposed to this songs. "Dis time nah lang time" is every bit as Guyanese as is "Hear Auntie Bess."  But you view this as "coolie culture" derived from illiterate peasants and so are ashamed of it!

caribny posted:

 I am proud of the African component of my creole culture. There are many in terms of our food preparation, speech patterns, music and dancing, etc.  Sorrel drink and the pepper sauce that you consume is AFRICAN! Bet you didn't know that.  Cooking with coconut milk is AFRICAN! Bet you didn't know that. And there are many other Africanisms.  Just look at the body language of Guyanese (including Indo Guyanese), Lots of arm waving and facial expressions. AFRICAN. 

When I was in college and I had a room mate for Ghana I used the term "stupidee stupidee" to describe some one. Who educated me of the fact that this was  a DIRECT translation from Twi.

In fact it is this component that makes a lie of the fact that you and other racists scream that blacks have no culture. 

And in fact you on a daily basis unwittingly engage in this Afro derived culture every time you use any Creolese expression.  Creolese is derived out of a form of pidgin English which was developed in West Africa.  The Africans "Africanized" English to suit their linguistic purposes and this language/dialect spread to the English speaking Caribbean where each society made their own adjustments.

So druggie the MAIN language of the vast majority of Indo Guyanese is an "Africanized" form of English. Yes this was developed so that the vast number of ethnic groups in various regions of Africa could communicate with each other, given that they didn't know each others languages.

Whenever Guyanese gather and sing Guyanese folks songs (Which EVERY Guyanese knows) there are singing Afro Caribbean music.  Why don't we also sing Indo Guyanese folks songs that we know exist. Because people like you are ashamed of every thing that is Indo Guyanese and want to slave behind pretending to be hidden, so few Guyanese are exposed to this songs. "Dis time nah lang time" is every bit as Guyanese as is "Hear Auntie Bess."  But you view this as "coolie culture" derived from illiterate peasants and so are ashamed of it!

 

No doubt there are some shared culture, but it is not uniform throughout the country.  In fact the case can be made that Indos did pick up some expressions from Afros, however limited, but especially those in the country area with little or no interaction with the GT Afros,  the impact was limited. 

You must be in a time warp, no one even knows those songs anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NLCsGWFZo

Folk Songs and Presidents of Guyana.

Guyana Original Folk Songs Vol 03

caribny posted:

So druggie the MAIN language of the vast majority of Indo Guyanese is an "Africanized" form of English. Yes this was developed so that the vast number of ethnic groups in various regions of Africa could communicate with each other, given that they didn't know each others languages.

In an extremely limited and localized way for Indo-Guyanese.

Druggie we have a variety of creole cultures in Guyana and all operate on a continuum. People pick and chose which one or ones they wish, depending on context. NONE of us are exclusively of one culture. ALL of us borrow from other groups, involuntarily from our colonial masters and voluntarily from each other.

I can only wonder why Trinidadians are proud of this diversity (they being even more diverse than we are as they also have Spanish creole and Afro French creole elements).  They are proud of being a culture where the mosque, the Hindu temple and the Christian church exist side by side. Where an East Indian was instrumental in developing steel pan, a white Trini will gobble down a doubles and an Afro Trini will pick up a cuatro and sing parang at Xmas.

Druggie why do you negate societies like these and pretend as if cultural creativity doesn't happen?  The essence of Trinidad is the soca chutney parang which pulls together the three main musical traditions of that island.

Its the fact that Trinidad recognizes this to the extent that Guyana doesn't is why that society, despite having a similar ethnic mix, isn't stuck as is Guyana.  BOTH the PNM and the UNC must perform as neither can take their support base for granted.

And its not as if this cultural fusion and diversity doesn't also represent Guyana. I saw a group of Indo Guyanese American boys dancing some combination of chutney, hip hop, dance hall and soca.  I think that this is how they culturally define themselves.

As to religion 40% of Indians are now members of the two Middle Eastern religions (Christianity and Muslim) and there are now more Christian Indians than Muslim. Something tells me that the Indian Christians are more devout than are Indian Hindus, given that they are most often converts and were born as Hindus.  The Muslim population hasn't changed that much.

Druggie its the two Middle Eastern religions that are growing in Guyana, as more Indians become Christians and more non Indians become Muslims.  This is why the Muslim population hasn't changed that much even as the Indo population dwindles. 

You can marry who ever you want because that is love but you must always keep your culture.

How can he keep what he does not have.

Prashad posted:

You can marry who ever you want because that is love but you must always keep your culture.

You cannot "keep" your culture if you marry someone from outside. Marriage necessitates compromise which means compromising culture.  The kids will be a blend or they will reject the culture which most limits their options and keeps them most isolated.

Demerara_Guy posted:

caribny posted:

So druggie the MAIN language of the vast majority of Indo Guyanese is an "Africanized" form of English. Yes this was developed so that the vast number of ethnic groups in various regions of Africa could communicate with each other, given that they didn't know each others languages.

In an extremely limited and localized way for Indo-Guyanese.

A Nigerian can hear a group of Indo Guyanese and understand 90% of what they are saying. Bringing an India from India and they will wonder what sort of "African" language they are speaking, integrating not only the speech patterns but also the body language of Afro Caribbean people.

Those who scream that they "preserve" their culture fool themselves. Even India itself has changed drastically since 1880.

Demerara_Guy posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NLCsGWFZo

Folk Songs and Presidents of Guyana.

Published on Oct 20, 2010

Guyana Original Folk Songs Vol 03

My point exactly. Few Guyanese know that our folk traditions aren't limited to the Afro Guyanese, but there is also an Indo Guyanese input. Why aren't those songs promoted.  They certainly sing to themes that all Guyanese will be aware of given that we often live next door to one another and so aren't ignorant of what we do.

caribny posted:

Demerara_Guy posted:

caribny posted:

So druggie the MAIN language of the vast majority of Indo Guyanese is an "Africanized" form of English. Yes this was developed so that the vast number of ethnic groups in various regions of Africa could communicate with each other, given that they didn't know each others languages.

In an extremely limited and localized way for Indo-Guyanese.

A Nigerian can hear a group of Indo Guyanese and understand 90% of what they are saying. Bringing an India from India and they will wonder what sort of "African" language they are speaking, integrating not only the speech patterns but also the body language of Afro Caribbean people.

Those who scream that they "preserve" their culture fool themselves. Even India itself has changed drastically since 1880.

Absolutely incorrect, Caribny.

During my university days when completing graduate, post graduate and advanced studies with a major in hydroelectric power developments, I have had the opportunity to make friends with numerous students from India, Africa and other parts of the world.

Granted a few localized expressions were new, we share the meanings of said words/expressions with each other.

However, communications were fluent between us; though at times with specific accents.

caribny posted:.

I can only wonder why Trinidadians are proud of this diversity (they being even more diverse than we are as they also have Spanish creole and Afro French creole elements).  They are proud of being a culture where the mosque, the Hindu temple and the Christian church exist side by side. Where an East Indian was instrumental in developing steel pan, a white Trini will gobble down a doubles and an Afro Trini will pick up a cuatro and sing parang at Xmas.

Druggie why do you negate societies like these and pretend as if cultural creativity doesn't happen?  The essence of Trinidad is the soca chutney parang which pulls together the three main musical traditions of that island.

Its the fact that Trinidad recognizes this to the extent that Guyana doesn't is why that society, despite having a similar ethnic mix, isn't stuck as is Guyana.  BOTH the PNM and the UNC must perform as neither can take their support base for granted.

And its not as if this cultural fusion and diversity doesn't also represent Guyana. I saw a group of Indo Guyanese American boys dancing some combination of chutney, hip hop, dance hall and soca.  I think that this is how they culturally define themselves. 

Trinidad is a different animal, people live in much more close proximity to each other rather than as in Guyana where people are spread out and villages are still predominantly defined by being Indian or African. It is akin to saying that GT IndoG represent the Indian community across Guyana. Being from GT and growing up in a mixed village, I see distinct differences between Indos in GT vs the rest of the country. This may explain T&T where there is less isolation by race geographically. That is of course if what you are saying is correct about Trinis. I know some Trini Indians that hate Black Trinis, this goes against what you are peddling here about an integrated culture there. 

Demerara_Guy posted:

to make friends with numerous students from India, Africa and other parts of the world.

Granted a few localized expressions were new, we share the meanings of said words/expressions with each other.

However, communications were fluent between us; though at times with specific accents.

Yes you spoke STANDARD English so understood one another.  If you spoke Creolese a Nigerian would understand after listening carefully. An Indian wouldn't have a clue.

Drugb posted:

 

Trinidad is a different animal, people live in much more close proximity to each other rather than as in Guyana where people are spread out and villages are still predominantly defined by being Indian or African. It is akin to saying that GT IndoG represent the Indian community across Guyana. Being from GT and growing up in a mixed village, I see distinct differences between Indos in GT vs the rest of the country. This may explain T&T where there is less isolation by race geographically. That is of course if what you are saying is correct about Trinis. I know some Trini Indians that hate Black Trinis, this goes against what you are peddling here about an integrated culture there. 

Total nonsense. Over 85% of Guyanese live along one main road which starts on the Pomeroon and ends on the Corentyne River.   Guyanese are less geographically isolated from each other than are Trinidadians who occupy almost every square inch of their island.

An Afro Guyanese from Hopetown and Ithaca is radically different from one from G/T as well. So what is your point.  In fact many Indos in G/T have more in common with their black neighbors than they do with some one from the Corentyne. You being a case in point, even though your hatred of blacks is very evident.

White and black Americans really don't like each other but what BOTH understand is that there is an AMERICAN identity. Just get in a line in front of a working class black American and hold up the line because you don't speak fluent English.  The xenophobic reaction that you will see will make Trump proud. 

And as to white Americans. Interesting. I was just in the Caribbean on vacation and I was amazed by the numbers of white Americans who approached me as an American. I guess living here after a while there are certain mannerisms that one develops.  Back in the USA I will be a black person they will stay away from. Outside of the USA suddenly we are fellow Americans.

Trinidadians also have that sentiment, as do Jamaicans.

Face it we Guyanese don't. Some people still pretend that they live on the banks of the Ganges River and so are utterly alien from all the others sharing the Demerara and the Essequibo and the Berbice with them.  In actuality they aren't and it took rejection from Indians from India to learn this.  But even now they cannot admit this.

caribny posted:

Yes you spoke STANDARD English so understood one another.  If you spoke Creolese a Nigerian would understand after listening carefully. An Indian wouldn't have a clue.

 

Incorrect again.

A few may not; but the large majority will; understand.

caribny posted:

Over 85% of Guyanese live along one main road which starts on the Pomeroon and ends on the Corentyne River.

No road runs from Pomeroon to the Corentyne.

Rivers and streams separate the various areas.

Demerara_Guy posted:

caribny posted:

Yes you spoke STANDARD English so understood one another.  If you spoke Creolese a Nigerian would understand after listening carefully. An Indian wouldn't have a clue.

 

Incorrect again.

A few may not; but the large majority will; understand.

Indians certainly do NOT speak anything remotely resembling Creolese. While in Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Liberia and parts of Cameroon they speak pidgin English (called Krio in Sierra Leone). 

The varieties spoken in the urban areas, where there is less influence of the indigenous languages, can be understand by Caribbean people in the same way as a Trinidadian can eventually figure out what a Jamaican is saying.  Fela (a Nigerian singer) used to sing in pidgin English. Nothing that a Caribbean person, including an Indo Guyanese wouldn't understand.

Deny it as you wish but the mother tongue of most Indo Guyanese is an adaptation of a form of English which developed in West Africa.

Demerara_Guy posted:

caribny posted:

Over 85% of Guyanese live along one main road which starts on the Pomeroon and ends on the Corentyne River.

No road runs from Pomeroon to the Corentyne.

Rivers and streams separate the various areas.

A bridge over Demerara and one over Berbice, and a ferry over the Essequibo which accommodates cars.  Now get back to me about all of these coastal Guyanese living in those isolated communities. 

You will soon be telling me that there are no highway systems in North America as many of these also cross over rivers.   The Interstate 95 runs from FL to Massachusetts, crossing over several rivers. It is ONE highway.

caribny posted:

Demerara_Guy posted:

caribny posted:

Over 85% of Guyanese live along one main road which starts on the Pomeroon and ends on the Corentyne River.

No road runs from Pomeroon to the Corentyne.

Rivers and streams separate the various areas.

A bridge over Demerara and one over Berbice, and a ferry over the Essequibo which accommodates cars.  Now get back to me about all of these coastal Guyanese living in those isolated communities.

Nonetheless, no road starts from Pomeroon and ends at Corentyne River.

There is a ferry on the Essequibo river; but not a road which connects the main land of the the Essequibo coast, Wakenaam, Leguan. Bartica, etc.

caribny posted:

Total nonsense. Over 85% of Guyanese live along one main road which starts on the Pomeroon and ends on the Corentyne River.   Guyanese are less geographically isolated from each other than are Trinidadians who occupy almost every square inch of their island.

An Afro Guyanese from Hopetown and Ithaca is radically different from one from G/T as well. So what is your point.  In fact many Indos in G/T have more in common with their black neighbors than they do with some one from the Corentyne. You being a case in point, even though your hatred of blacks is very evident.

White and black Americans really don't like each other but what BOTH understand is that there is an AMERICAN identity. Just get in a line in front of a working class black American and hold up the line because you don't speak fluent English.  The xenophobic reaction that you will see will make Trump proud. 

And as to white Americans. Interesting. I was just in the Caribbean on vacation and I was amazed by the numbers of white Americans who approached me as an American. I guess living here after a while there are certain mannerisms that one develops.  Back in the USA I will be a black person they will stay away from. Outside of the USA suddenly we are fellow Americans.

Trinidadians also have that sentiment, as do Jamaicans.

Face it we Guyanese don't. Some people still pretend that they live on the banks of the Ganges River and so are utterly alien from all the others sharing the Demerara and the Essequibo and the Berbice with them.  In actuality they aren't and it took rejection from Indians from India to learn this.  But even now they cannot admit this.

You are a poor ignorant soul, you know so little of IndoG culture, a clear indication that you grew up in an isolated BlackG environment with little or no interaction with IndoG other than to spit at them in scorn. 

You pretend that you know IndoG. These folks know nothing about the Ganges, you ask them about the Berbice or Mahaica, Courantyne or Demerara and they will reply in the affirmative. 

Your outlook on IndoGs is a function of the racist upbringing that you had in your isolated world of black power and putting the boot on the Indo head.

Demerara_Guy posted:

.

 

Nonetheless, no road starts from Pomeroon and ends at Corentyne River.

There is a ferry on the Essequibo river; but not a road which connects the main land of the the Essequibo coast, Wakenaam, Leguan. Bartica, etc.

So the I-95 doesn't exist as it is a highway that is broken up by many rivers and bridges.

Listen it is easy to get from Essequibo coast to G/T so to argue that those people are isolated as druggie is trying to is plain stupidity.

Drugb posted:

caribny posted:

.

Your outlook on IndoGs is a function of the racist upbringing that you had in your isolated world of black power and putting the boot on the Indo head.

You scoff at the notion of Guyanese cultural creativity.  You don't seem to think that there is anything worth celebrating that was created in Guyana. In fact you even scream that to talk of Guyanese cultural creativity is to talk of black people (who you accuse of lacking any culture).

Basically you negate any cultural creativity that Indo Guyanese have been involved with, so you clearly think that you live on the banks of the Ganges.

I am still waiting for an answer as to why every time we have a Guyanese cultural presentation the IndoG component is almost always very badly done Bollywood dancing, and not a portrayal of the IndoG culture that was created.

I stated that "Dis time nah lang time" is every bit as Guyanese as "Hear Auntie Bess".  So why isn't it recognized more? In fact Rickford Dalgetty when he was more active culturally used to sing this song loads of times and put it right within the context of Guyanese culture.

Thanks to your attitude the world actually thinks that chutney is a genre developed by Trinidadians and that Guyanese have nothing to do with it.  

I will leave aside the fact that you deny that there is cultural inter connectedness between different ethnic groups in Guyana. This cultural continuum that does exist you deny because you think that you live on the banks of the Ganges River and so have remained culturally unimpacted by the fact that Guyana is a multi ethnic and a multi cultural society.

There is no one Guyanese culture but there are different combinations and continuums based on the fact that it was a British colony and based on the fact that the bulk of the population have their roots in India, various parts of West and West Central Africa, as well as among the peoples indigenous to the Americas.  And we have also some whose roots are in China and Portugal as well.

Druggie at some point EVERY Guyanese samples and has incorporated something that all of the 6 groups have been responsible for bringing. I already alluded to the fact that the dialect spoken by most IndoGs has more to do with the Niger River than it has to do with the Ganges.

But feel free to think that you belong to some isolated group bereft of all other cultural influences. Yes because you think you live on the Ganges River.

caribny posted:

Demerara_Guy posted:

Nonetheless, no road starts from Pomeroon and ends at Corentyne River.

There is a ferry on the Essequibo river; but not a road which connects the main land of the the Essequibo coast, Wakenaam, Leguan. Bartica, etc.

So the I-95 doesn't exist as it is a highway that is broken up by many rivers and bridges.

Listen it is easy to get from Essequibo coast to G/T so to argue that those people are isolated as druggie is trying to is plain stupidity.

Read carefully, Caribny.

1. I-95 is absolutely unrelated to the topic.

2. Your statement is ...

caribny posted:

Over 85% of Guyanese live along one main road which starts on the Pomeroon and ends on the Corentyne River.

3. My statement is that there is no straight road from the Pomeroon to Corentyne River.

4. One can indeed state that there is a road with connecting bridges from the East Bank, Essequibo river to the Corentyne River.

5. Again, there is no direct road connection between Essequibo Coast and East Bank, Essequibo except by ferries and boats.

caribny posted:

 

 

You scoff at the notion of Guyanese cultural creativity.  You don't seem to think that there is anything worth celebrating that was created in Guyana. In fact you even scream that to talk of Guyanese cultural creativity is to talk of black people (who you accuse of lacking any culture).

Basically you negate any cultural creativity that Indo Guyanese have been involved with, so you clearly think that you live on the banks of the Ganges.

I am still waiting for an answer as to why every time we have a Guyanese cultural presentation the IndoG component is almost always very badly done Bollywood dancing, and not a portrayal of the IndoG culture that was created.

I stated that "Dis time nah lang time" is every bit as Guyanese as "Hear Auntie Bess".  So why isn't it recognized more? In fact Rickford Dalgetty when he was more active culturally used to sing this song loads of times and put it right within the context of Guyanese culture.

Thanks to your attitude the world actually thinks that chutney is a genre developed by Trinidadians and that Guyanese have nothing to do with it.  

I will leave aside the fact that you deny that there is cultural inter connectedness between different ethnic groups in Guyana. This cultural continuum that does exist you deny because you think that you live on the banks of the Ganges River and so have remained culturally unimpacted by the fact that Guyana is a multi ethnic and a multi cultural society.

Your concept of culture is way too dated, from the Burnham days, a reflection of how long you have been away from Guyana. Ever since the culture has changed, if you go to Guyana you will see that the American culture has infiltrated. The most Guyanese idiosyncrasy you will recognize is when two aunty man having a fight and verbiage they use. 

What you old timers view as culture is no longer applicable today.