Ii see you're still enraged over missing my point. Step back from the politics for a moment and look at the Return on Investment (ROI). What's been done to dethrone the PPP has returned dividends on the investment by those determined to change Guyana for the better. We have to think of maximizing our resource allocation. Getting the PNC to be viewed as a different animal than what Indians currently think is a good investment. All the other talk about who has to apologize and who has to be vilified continues to get the effort no where.

Correct, deeds matter more than words.  Hoyte saw the writing on the wall and made last-minute concessions to Indians trying to turn the inevitable tide brought on by US pressure.  Had he got away with it and the PNC hung in, we would have seen a different side afterwards.  This is the fear/view of many Indians.  The infrastructure was in-place to carry on the PNC MO thru infinity.

yaaaaawwwnnnnnnn . . .

keep dat high smelling panty down by yuh ankles, wine dat bt and flounce some mo . . . there will be takers

doan worry

u devoted an ENTIRE THREAD to that "effort" . . . fraud!

g'wan suh mr shart term memory

How can Indians view the PNC differently when they support criminals who rob, rape, and murder Indo-Guyanese and get away with it? Granger applauded the killing of the ballot box martyrs and publicly stated that LFS was not a dictator. 

He does not have a track of speaking out against any sort of injustices  nor show any genuine concerns for the Guyanese people. Kwayana and David Hinds have such record but not this man

Apologizing is more than a statement, and utterance or a meeting. That's the apologizing I speak of. No short term memory here. You distorted the "apologizing" here to start talking about the PPP. We KNOW who they are. In the words of the former Minnesota Vikings Head Coach "They are who we thought they were". Why deflect the tenor of the thread? Is ti because an investment choice is being proffered that totally blind-sided you?

Like you get your Guyana news and analysis from Fox News.

No political party is monolithic. Hoyte has had a running battle wit Burnham over the economy since Adam and Eve. It's not the US pressure, it's not that he saw some writing on the wall to liberalize the economy. It's who he was, and that's why he associated himself with Economists who were of free-market persuasion. You will admit that he put Guyana on the road to recovery. What you're doing now is to deny him that credit by saying Carter forced him. You're so not correct about your history.

the day a weak minded fraud like u "blind-side" me with anything is the day i leave this world

g'wan suh with yuh warmed-over nonsense! . . . how many times do you need to be exposed over the same shyte?

We should ask Moses and Ramjattan if they share Kari's take on Hoyte and free elections in 1992

Hoyte was purely acting out of self-preservation for the PNC.  The US was on his back and so was the economy.  Many Indians still question, when they (PNC) regain a firmer footing and past the Jimmy Carter test, would they have later reverted to the old ways?  I do believe so as black power has always been front and foremost as a PNC doctrine.

Hotye had that chance, of his own free will, in 1987.  Had it not been for the US pressure, why do anyone believe he would not have carried on with the old PNC doctrine.

Anyone who believes the old PNC ways are dead, well 2011 should have jolted them out of their day-dream.

desmond persaud was the best president guyana ever had.

Baseman,

We all know the tricks of the PNC. Kari reminds me of those Indians who used to accompany PNC leaders at election campaign meetings in the seventies.

That is a wicked lie. Granger did no such thing. Typical PPP propagandist. You people have no friggin credibility. You learnt well from your Commie masters. 

Every time the PNC apologizes they will still demand another apology.  Trotman himself apologized when he was still with the PNC.  The radical elements got rid of him.

This is why I am telling Kari and all of those people who have this habit of taking black people for granted that ANOTHER apology from the PNC (black people) without an apology from Indians, will not get them what they think will happen.

They need to understand that there are TWO narratives in Guyana, and BOTH needs to be addressed.

We have two choices.

1.  BOTH apologize to each other  

OR

2.  Both recognize that each have sinned against the other and so no apologies are necessary!

But there is NO WAY that black people should allow themselves to be painted as the only sinners in Guyana.

And Kari you know full well that to most Indians PNC=black people, so don't come with any nonsense that this isn't about getting black people to apologize to Indians.

  You Kari are missing the point.

Let me break it down.  The PNC grovels to Indians by apologizing to them without getting an apology for the CONTEMPORARY racism directed towards blacks by Indians (the PPP and the Indian elite).  This enrages the PNC's core constituency against Granger as it did against Corbin and Hoyte when they felt that they sold them out to the PPP.

So the PNC picks up a few hundred more Indian votes, loses thousands of black votes when they STAY HOME.

The PPP romps home to victory.

Its obvious to me that you, chief and kishan b are closet PPP supporters  Because if you weren't you would factor in how black people might react to this apology, but you DO NOT!

Hoyte compromised so much that he was called Desi Persaud.  How many Indian votes did he get?  I know that he lost black votes in 1994 when Hammie Green with his unknown party snatched Georgetown from him.

Obviously Kari wants the PPP to snatch Georgetown IF we have local gov't elections.  This is clearly their plan.

Let me be clear. Apologizing is more than a statement (like Trotman's).

Let me be clear again. The whole apologizing effort (I have to come up with a better word to avoid confusion in the minds of Redux and CaribJ) is not meant to say the PNC, and Blacks by extension, are demons (and THE only demons). It is a strategy to invest in the minds of Indians who see this PPP as inimical to not only their interests but Guyana's. The business reality of such an investment is that if you ask any decent, liberal Indian who don't give a hoot about racism, if he fears the 1970s rule of Burnham's PNS and Blackman's general behavior towards Indians he will say a resounding "YES", and the hell be damned about living with a crooked Indian regime. That's the reality and and all the other tried and tested strategy have not worked and will not work. So look at this approach in a realistic logical moment and remove the emotional content of who wrong and who right. Politics is all business my friends....all business. Emotions don't win you elections and power, and the ability to effect change.

CaribJ, Hoyte did not get Indian votes because he postponed the 1990 elections by a further 2 years raising the specter of the Burnham years.

Losing 10% Black votes and gaining 20% Indian votes, even 10% Indian voters (higher than 10% black votes he would lose under your approach, and I do take the liberty of adding a percentage, rightly or wrongly, as this is for discussion), is a better deal. Even if it means the APNU does not get those cross-over votes (there, that the business term I was looking for "Cross-over" votes - takes the race out of it), then they would go to AFC or stay home. The point being that these votes would be ripped away from the PPP.

Kari the PNC will NOT get 20% Indian votes.  When have Indians ever supported a black leader?  NEVER.  They don't trust them, and blacks aren't much better when it comes to Indians, except for "safe" "town collie". 

When the AFC campaigned they sent Nagamootoo to Berbice and Hughes to the black villages on the ECD, and around G/twn and Linden.  Shows something doesn't it?  Yes even the party which pledges to eliminate race voting had to use some of those tactics.

This is Guyana.

Had Nagamootoo not been very involved with the AFC last time they would not have had their successes in Berbice in 2011.  Trotman an Hughes couldn't pull in those votes.  Trotman apologized and was tossed out of the PNC as a result, and didn't take too many votes with him either.

Why are you so stuck on this apology.  BOTH Indians and Africans have a highly develop narrative of abuse and discrimination, so if one side apologizes and not the other side all it does is heighten levels of anxiety and rage.

What do you think will happen to the PPP if they went out and acknowledged that there MIGHT have been some discrimination against blacks? Legions of Indians will stay home, enraged that the PPP is groveling to the same people who they claim, and with justification, have had some responsibility for the abuse of the PNC against them.  I put it this way because obviously you can only see Guyana through the eyes of an Indian.

So drop this apology thing.  What concerns Guyanese, and not just Indians, is whether the PNC is up to the task.  They need to demonstrate that they are.  Now if the PNC does things which show that they are capable and will be inclusive and Indians don't support them because of what Burnham did before MOST OF THEM WERE BORN, then they aren't serious.

Granger going to RH was a good move, as it showed courage to go into what might have been highly hostile territory, given that many fled Burnham.  The next step isn't just to describe what ails Guyana.  We all know and most of us agree. IMPLEMENTABLE ideas and OUTREACH to all corners is what is needed.

If people don't look at this, I doubt that an empty apology will move them.  After all who really trusts words from a politician?

My concern is that there is a building anger among many Afro Guyanese every bit as toxic as that which developed among Indians in the 70s because of the racism if the PNC.   This combined with a growing culture of violence in these emerging garrisons (scream at Hinds if you disagree with me) is a dangerous brew.

I would think that addressing the two "angers" would be a priority for you, but apparently not.  Maybe you see black people as a docile group who only want to party all day, so you can ignore them.

Kari look at NY.  How much dialogue is there between black and Indians Guyanese?  NONE really. Yes there are polite friendships and people say nice things to each other, but how much honest conversation is there really?

 So there is a whole dialogue going on within these communities that people who live in the other aren't aware of.

Guyana is a lawless country and the very poor blacks are desperate, angry and trust no one.  All of this phantom crap brought in by the PPP has created a mercenary mentality among many.  Others, scrambling for a few dollars in an increasingly expensive society are desperate.

In time past some went to Barbados, Antigua, St Lucia, St Kitts, Tortola and St Maarten to scramble what they could to send back, but those islands are going through "guava" days now. And BTW when they went they carried stories of being oppressed as blacks by Indians, and even told Jagdeo when he visited Antigua once, though Jagdeo did his best to get that story squashed.

Kari I have been asked by black islanders who visit Guyana about what happened to black people there?  These aren't the black Guyanese who they used to know and respect, so the increasing degradation of segments of this community has become obvious even to other Caribbean people.

Combine this lawlessness with a sense of ethnic exclusion and you have a dangerous brew. David Hinds and Eric Phillips have been talking about it, but you all (not you) call them racists.

Then on top of that there is another cast of characters, not able to drink PPP soup, but longing for the days when they had Burnham's soup. They are busy telling people too young to know how good life used to be.  Indeed there is a girl who even wrote a calypso about life in Guyana in the early 70s.

So why are you insisting that the PNC engage in what many will see as groveling to Indians, even if this isn't your intent?

what bullsh!t is this I am reading from Redux!

The "41%" aren't asking for an apology, and given that they represent the second and third largest groups (blacks and mixed) one cannot say "Guyanese", and pretend as if there are not racial dynamics in all of this.

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU WRITE?OR MS CLEO TOLD YOU THIS??!!!

It took you this late in the evening to get drunk? Or you were distracted with fantasies of JB?