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by Ralph Ramkarran

"The great success of Fidel Castro and the Cuban Revolution lies not merely in its social achievements but in its inspiration to peoples all over the world oppressed by foreign domination, to the peoples of Latin America against the vestiges of the Monroe Doctrine, to the peoples of Southern Africa, particularly Angola, in which Cuban soldiers died, to the numerous countries like Guyana to which major assistance is being offered. Cuba’s mere survival is an inspiration to humanity by its modern replay of the victory of David over Goliath. And Fidel Castro is the symbol of that inspiration.

Cuba’s influence on Guyana’s recent political history has been significant but with no lasting impact. After years of hostility to Cuba and the Cuban Revolution, the Burnham Government opened diplomatic relations with Cuba in 1972. Close political relations quickly developed as the Guyana Government moved to the left. It appears as if the Cuban analysis of Guyana went something like this: The PNC is a friend of Cuba and is on the left. It is entrenched in power, which it will not share. Cuba’s fraternal party, the PPP, should therefore support the PNC and strengthen its capacity to resist imperialism.

The PPP’s fundamental objection to this analysis was that the PNC held power undemocratically and socialism cannot be built without democracy. Also, unconditional support to the PNC Government would have undermined its own support. The Cuban’s disapproval of the PPP’s posture was evidenced by Castro’s visit to Guyana in 1973, just after the egregious rigging of the 1973 elections in which the PNC gave itself a two-third majority and the brutal killing of three PPP supporters and not meeting with Cheddi Jagan.

The Cubans then sought to subvert the PPP. Ranji Chandisingh, seen as second in line to Cheddi Jagan and the PPP’s chief ideologue, and Feroze Mohamed, a rising star, visited Cuba in about 1975. It was believed, and later confirmed by Chandisingh to Billy Strachan, in a conversation in 1994/5 (unfortunately both has since passed and I have no way of proving this other than my word) that during that trip the Cuban Communist Party had persuaded him to leave the PPP and join the PNC, which Chandisingh did in 1976, creating a major division.

It is impossible not to believe that Feroze Mohamed did not know of the Cuban involvement in Chandisingh’s resignation. But he has remained silent; or that he was not also encouraged by the Cubans to leave the PPP and join the PNC. Burnham began at this time in Parliament to shower praises on him, maybe as encouragement to take the step across the floor. But if he was encouraged, he did not cross over. I know the whole story as told to me by senior PNC sources, but regrettably can say no more. Billy Strachan was a Jamaican-British labour activist and lawyer since the late 1940s. He and Chandisingh were extremely close friends and comrades from the 1950s.

Cheddi Jagan had long realised that it was necessary to show solidarity with the PNC’s progressive policies. He had offered ‘critical support’ in 1975 but finally concluded that something more was necessary, while remaining convinced that a solution not based on democracy would not endure. He may well have been further influenced by the Cuban view and feared a loss of their solidarity. Thus in 1977 the PPP offered the National Patriotic Front based on free and fair election in which the majority party would not field a candidate for president but for the second position of prime minister. Neither the Cubans nor the PNC was impressed but Cuban relations with the PPP, as well as the PNC, continued."

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RiffRaff posted:

ayuh need to move forward from de past....it's all BS

Why?  The history of Guyana tells the story of how we end up with a PNC government today.  Especially, the long lasting impact of Ranji Chandisingh crossing the floor to side with Burnham.  This is not an article for shallow minds.

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
RiffRaff posted:

When it comes to Guyana, most of it's history should be scrapped...only keep the part when slaves and indentured servants arrived...

You will be robbing a couple generations valuable history.

FM
Nehru posted:

Bibi, if you want to know how Guyana ended up with a PNc Govt read the released CIA and MI5 records. Panty wearing Churchill and Kennedy and their GOONS had much to do with that!!!!

I have read it several times.  With deep interest.  This new bit of information with Castro and Chandisingh is new and shocking to me.  Information like this is not in history books.   They die with the people who once knew.

Bibi Haniffa
RiffRaff posted:

to describe this as new or shocking is to be naive about politics in Guyana...anyway, half this stuff could be wrong

Did you know that Castro encouraged Chandisingh to cross the floor?  And do you know the impact that had on Guyana's politics?  The two greatest minds in Guyana's politics were Chandisingh and Balram Singh Rai and they both departed from the PPP under mysterious circumstances and changed the history of Guyana forevermore.  You should be writing a history book about this subject for the benefit of future generations, since it's not new to you.

Bibi Haniffa
Nehru posted:

Chandisingh was a Namakaram Carbdaag just like our Uncle Tom!!!!

Except that Chandisingh was an educated one.  He was a student at Harvard University in 1946 at the age of 16.  Uncle Tom doesn't even qualify to clean his shoes.  The US chose the two brightest guys in the party to weaken the PPP.  And it worked.

Bibi Haniffa

But somebody got double crossed here big time.  Why would Castro support Chandisingh's crossing to the PNC, when the PNC was being orchestrated by the US?  There is some deep seated politics going on here.  In the US this would have been a movie!!!  Where is Steven Spielberg when we need him?

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:

But somebody got double crossed here big time.  Why would Castro support Chandisingh's crossing to the PNC, when the PNC was being orchestrated by the US?  This is some deep seated politics going on here.  In the US this would have been a movie!!!

Burnham made a left turn away from the U.S. at this time. He was in cahoots with Castro and Jagan and they were all taking orders from their Soviet bosses. Castro was the facilitator used by the Russians to bring Burnham and Jagan together in an unholy alliance (Critical Support and later National Front Government) which was used to nationalize the main industries in Guyana.

Mars

Nothing new here, Bibi. Way back in 1977, at the yearly International Bar at Colgrain House, Derek Jagan told me the story. Ralph left out Vincent Teekah but Fidel had also urged Teekah to support Burnham.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

Did he say why Castro would encourage Chandisingh to be on the side of the PNC which was being backed by the US?  Or did the PNC break away from the US by this point?  Chandisingh was later Ambassador to Moscow under Burnham, after he had used the US to get power and then fell right back in the arms of the communists.  All of these guys outsmarted Cheddi.

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:
RiffRaff posted:

ayuh need to move forward from de past....it's all BS

Why?  The history of Guyana tells the story of how we end up with a PNC government today.  Especially, the long lasting impact of Ranji Chandisingh crossing the floor to side with Burnham.  This is not an article for shallow minds.

BH,

I may have a shallow mind, but this article only confirms what we all know by now...both Jagan and Burnham were two peas in a pod and with critical support, Jagan contributed to the legitimization of the PNC and Burnham's dictatorship....that also explains where we are where we at today.

 

V
Bibi Haniffa posted:

Did he say why Castro would encourage Chandisingh to be on the side of the PNC which was being backed by the US?  Or did the PNC break away from the US by this point?  Chandisingh was later Ambassador to Moscow under Burnham, after he had used the US to get power and then fell right back in the arms of the communists.  All of these guys outsmarted Cheddi.

He told me that in 1975, at an anti-imperialist conference in Havana, Fidel met privately with Dr Jagan, Ranji and other members of the PPP delegation. Fidel pointed out that Burnham was anti-imperialist and highly regarded in the Non-Aligned Movement. He urged the PPP to support Burnham because both parties were at that point anti-imperialist. Jagan promised to consider after consultation with the PPP Central Committee. When the matter was discussed at CC level, some urged caution and some were against supporting Burnham. Janet J was not enthused. Neither was Derek J. So, Cheddi bowled a googly named "critical support" and he hit the wicket.

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
RiffRaff posted:

ayuh need to move forward from de past....it's all BS

Why?  The history of Guyana tells the story of how we end up with a PNC government today.  Especially, the long lasting impact of Ranji Chandisingh crossing the floor to side with Burnham.  This is not an article for shallow minds.

It confirms that Cheddi was a sad little tool of communists. In addition to offering critical support, as Burnham destroyed the economy by nationalization, he even begged to be part of this regime.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
.

BH,

I may have a shallow mind, but this article only confirms what we all know by now...both Jagan and Burnham were two peas in a pod and with critical support, Jagan contributed to the legitimization of the PNC and Burnham's dictatorship....that also explains where we are where we at today.

 

Indeed this must be said.  To blame one and not the other is dishonest.

In retrospect Guyanese should have given more support to the UF, as they would have been better able to contain Burnham, had they had this support.

Instead the UF crumbled, and with it the private sector.

FM
Gilbakka posted:

Nothing new here, Bibi. Way back in 1977, at the yearly International Bar at Colgrain House, Derek Jagan told me the story. Ralph left out Vincent Teekah but Fidel had also urged Teekah to support Burnham.

I think there was a thought that some of these "recruits" could have helped clean up the PNC from the inside.  That's what my brother told me.  He was recruited also.

Of course it did not work.  Most of them ended up getting the Burnham touch.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
RiffRaff posted:

ayuh need to move forward from de past....it's all BS

Why?  The history of Guyana tells the story of how we end up with a PNC government today.  Especially, the long lasting impact of Ranji Chandisingh crossing the floor to side with Burnham.  This is not an article for shallow minds.

BH,

I may have a shallow mind, but this article only confirms what we all know by now...both Jagan and Burnham were two peas in a pod and with critical support, Jagan contributed to the legitimization of the PNC and Burnham's dictatorship....that also explains where we are where we at today.

 

We are talking about two different things here.  I was referring to the fact that Castro was involved in the moving of Chandisingh from the PPP to the PNC.

Bibi Haniffa
caribny posted:
VishMahabir posted:
.

BH,

I may have a shallow mind, but this article only confirms what we all know by now...both Jagan and Burnham were two peas in a pod and with critical support, Jagan contributed to the legitimization of the PNC and Burnham's dictatorship....that also explains where we are where we at today.

 

Indeed this must be said.  To blame one and not the other is dishonest.

In retrospect Guyanese should have given more support to the UF, as they would have been better able to contain Burnham, had they had this support.

Instead the UF crumbled, and with it the private sector.

Burnham was the one who threw D'Aguiar the curve ball.  They took power in the name of imperialism backed by the US, and then Burnham ran right back to Moscow after he got what he wanted. 

Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:
caribny posted:
.Burnham ran right back to Moscow after he got what he wanted. 

 And cheering him on as he did this as the silly and weak Cheddi. Terrified of his communist wife, and enslaved by Havana and Moscow.

FM

I disagree very much. Cheddi was no way weak. Cheddi stood up to Kennedy and Panty wearing Churchill, two of the most powerful men at the time with their killing machines CIA and MI5!!!

Nehru

Cheddi did not stand up to Kennedy and Churchill.  He rolled over and played dead.  Castro was the one who stood up to them.  Cheddi did not even stand up to Burnham who had the country on the brink of starvation.  He turned a blind eye every single time.

Bibi Haniffa
Mars posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

But somebody got double crossed here big time.  Why would Castro support Chandisingh's crossing to the PNC, when the PNC was being orchestrated by the US?  This is some deep seated politics going on here.  In the US this would have been a movie!!!

Burnham made a left turn away from the U.S. at this time. He was in cahoots with Castro and Jagan and they were all taking orders from their Soviet bosses. Castro was the facilitator used by the Russians to bring Burnham and Jagan together in an unholy alliance (Critical Support and later National Front Government) which was used to nationalize the main industries in Guyana.

You have to take into consideration the context of the times. Fidel was committed to the struggle in South Africa. Both Africans and East Indians were experiencing hell from the Boar there. The South African apartheid government was playing up the leftist angle of the South African freedom movement to get American support. Fidel saw what the battle between the PNC and PPP had done to the Guyana society. For him it was self defeating for these two parties to fight each other.  Merger between the PNC and PPP was the only way forward.

Wally
Bibi Haniffa posted:
RiffRaff posted:

ayuh need to move forward from de past....it's all BS

Why?  The history of Guyana tells the story of how we end up with a PNC government today.  Especially, the long lasting impact of Ranji Chandisingh crossing the floor to side with Burnham.  This is not an article for shallow minds.

Bibi fish up Nehru and Rif.

Chief
Mars posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

But somebody got double crossed here big time.  Why would Castro support Chandisingh's crossing to the PNC, when the PNC was being orchestrated by the US?  This is some deep seated politics going on here.  In the US this would have been a movie!!!

Burnham made a left turn away from the U.S. at this time. He was in cahoots with Castro and Jagan and they were all taking orders from their Soviet bosses. Castro was the facilitator used by the Russians to bring Burnham and Jagan together in an unholy alliance (Critical Support and later National Front Government) which was used to nationalize the main industries in Guyana.

Until the late great outwitted all of them!!!!!

Chief
Bibi Haniffa posted:

Cheddi did not stand up to Kennedy and Churchill.  He rolled over and played dead.  Castro was the one who stood up to them.  Cheddi did not even stand up to Burnham who had the country on the brink of starvation.  He turned a blind eye every single time.

Chief
Chief posted:
Mars posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

But somebody got double crossed here big time.  Why would Castro support Chandisingh's crossing to the PNC, when the PNC was being orchestrated by the US?  This is some deep seated politics going on here.  In the US this would have been a movie!!!

Burnham made a left turn away from the U.S. at this time. He was in cahoots with Castro and Jagan and they were all taking orders from their Soviet bosses. Castro was the facilitator used by the Russians to bring Burnham and Jagan together in an unholy alliance (Critical Support and later National Front Government) which was used to nationalize the main industries in Guyana.

Until the late great outwitted all of them!!!!!

Chief with koolie like you and Ramkurran the East Indians of Guyana will always be in always be in the dump.

Prashad

Prash

You can say what you want to say, it is now history.

Do you want to rewrite history?

 

The ate great was de man!!

He made Jagan look like a real lil coolie boy.

Chief
Last edited by Chief
Chief posted:

Prash

You can say what you want to say, it is now history.

Do you want to rewrite history?

 

The ate great was de man!!

He made Jagan look like a real lil coolie boy.

Nothing great about a dictator who drove his country into ruins and left his people in poverty, while he lived like a king.

The same can be said for Fidel.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...stresses-galore.html

Mars

Now, I don't know whether the Soviets had a hand in Fidel Castro's effort to unite the PNC and the PPP, but they endorsed it for sure.

Over a decade ago I read a fat book titled MITROKHIN ARCHIVE. It's author, Vasili Mitrokhin, was archivist in the Soviet KGB. The book is based on notes and documents that he had secretly copied from the KGB archives. Mitrokhin defected to Britain 24 years ago with the archive in his luggage. 

So, when I read that book I was surprised to see how highly the Soviet leaders thought about we leader Forbes Burnham. They were convinced Burnham was a genuine Marxist-Leninist. Running through the Index, I failed to find Cheddi Jagan's name. Wha me must seh now? Me done talk.

FM
Chief posted:
Mars posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

But somebody got double crossed here big time.  Why would Castro support Chandisingh's crossing to the PNC, when the PNC was being orchestrated by the US?  This is some deep seated politics going on here.  In the US this would have been a movie!!!

Burnham made a left turn away from the U.S. at this time. He was in cahoots with Castro and Jagan and they were all taking orders from their Soviet bosses. Castro was the facilitator used by the Russians to bring Burnham and Jagan together in an unholy alliance (Critical Support and later National Front Government) which was used to nationalize the main industries in Guyana.

Until the late great outwitted all of them!!!!!

Burnham was the antithesis of what someone would describe as great in a leader.

In the end he outwitted no one but himself. Castro and Jagan conspired and pulled the ultimate payback on him. He went in to the Public Hospital for a routine operation being carried out by Cuban doctors. He never left under his own steam. Go figure.

Mars
Last edited by Mars

I posted in another thread about Moses allegedly wailing at the news of the death of Castro.

Moses was also allegedly taking direct orders from Cuba and crossed the floor (by teaming up with the PNC) to join the PNC just like the rest of Indos who crossed the floor.

Castro wanted a spy in the Granger administration. Judas is a perfect candidate for Havana.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Mars posted:
Chief posted:
Mars posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

But somebody got double crossed here big time.  Why would Castro support Chandisingh's crossing to the PNC, when the PNC was being orchestrated by the US?  This is some deep seated politics going on here.  In the US this would have been a movie!!!

Burnham made a left turn away from the U.S. at this time. He was in cahoots with Castro and Jagan and they were all taking orders from their Soviet bosses. Castro was the facilitator used by the Russians to bring Burnham and Jagan together in an unholy alliance (Critical Support and later National Front Government) which was used to nationalize the main industries in Guyana.

Until the late great outwitted all of them!!!!!

Burnham was the antithesis of what someone would describe as great in a leader.

In the end he outwitted no one but himself. Castro and Jagan conspired and pulled the ultimate payback on him. He went in to the Public Hospital for a routine operation being carried out by Cuban doctors. He never left under his own steam. Go figure.

Castro delivered the ultimate payback to Burnham indeed.  And let's not forget that his son-in-law Van West Charles was in the room at public hospital when the fatal blow was delivered to Burnham.  Funny how that same son-in-law has re-surfaced in the Granger administration today.

Bibi Haniffa

The accuracy of this story is verified by Feroze and others who were close to the powers that were.  And I think Ralph "had to" wait until Castro died before he spill the beans!  His father was there when all of this happened. Even our own patron saint, Gilbakka, knew about the Castro/Chandisingh deal. 

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:

I think so!!  But Chandisingh had his own personal agenda and was bought over by cold, hard, CA$H!!  His Harvard education did him no good.

Who knows if Burnham had threatened he rass... 

The Kabaca was capable of doing these stuff... 

FM

I heard that Chandisingh was broke and needed the money.  And Mars answered your question earlier in this thread.  In the end, Castro double-crossed both Burnham and Jagan.  Don't forget whose "Cuban Doctor" put a knife to Burnham's throat at public hospital.

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:

I heard that Chandisingh was broke and needed the money.  

You heard wrong. Chandisingh did not need Castro's money in order to support Burnham. I knew him personally. When the PPP sent him on trips abroad and gave him "per diem" funds, on his return he would submit an expense report that included the cigarettes he smoked and hand back leftover funds. No other person, except perhaps the Jagans, did that.

More importantly, in international circles Chandisingh was regarded as more Marxist-Leninist, more indoctrinated, than Jagan. Not for nothing was he Editor of the PPP theoretical-ideological journal "Thunder".

So, the Cubans said Burnham was anti-imperialist and Marxist-Leninist and Chandisingh concurred. He agreed to give unconditional support, not critical support, to Burnham according to his conscience. That is why he left the PPP after the party officially adopted "critical support", that is, about four months after the meeting with Castro in Havana.

His mind was so saturated with Marxism/socialism that Burnham immediately made him a teacher at the Cuffy Ideological Institute on a modest salary. Even when he bacame Minister of Education he did not earn a super-salary. He continued to live in his ordinary two-storey house on Waterloo Street until his death. 

So, take money out of the equation. Ranji Chandisingh always lived a modest and quiet life, his two weaknesses being books and cigarettes.

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:

I heard that Chandisingh was broke and needed the money.  And Mars answered your question earlier in this thread.  In the end, Castro double-crossed both Burnham and Jagan.  Don't forget whose "Cuban Doctor" put a knife to Burnham's throat at public hospital.

I understand that Chandisingh was not corrupt even under Burnham.  He is/was not a gold digger like Nemakharam Moses.

FM
Gilbakka posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

I heard that Chandisingh was broke and needed the money.  

You heard wrong. Chandisingh did not need Castro's money in order to support Burnham. I knew him personally. When the PPP sent him on trips abroad and gave him "per diem" funds, on his return he would submit an expense report that included the cigarettes he smoked and hand back leftover funds. No other person, except perhaps the Jagans, did that.

More importantly, in international circles Chandisingh was regarded as more Marxist-Leninist, more indoctrinated, than Jagan. Not for nothing was he Editor of the PPP theoretical-ideological journal "Thunder".

So, the Cubans said Burnham was anti-imperialist and Marxist-Leninist and Chandisingh concurred. He agreed to give unconditional support, not critical support, to Burnham according to his conscience. That is why he left the PPP after the party officially adopted "critical support", that is, about four months after the meeting with Castro in Havana.

His mind was so saturated with Marxism/socialism that Burnham immediately made him a teacher at the Cuffy Ideological Institute on a modest salary. Even when he bacame Minister of Education he did not earn a super-salary. He continued to live in his ordinary two-storey house on Waterloo Street until his death. 

So, take money out of the equation. Ranji Chandisingh always lived a modest and quiet life, his two weaknesses being books and cigarettes.

Thanks Gil.  The man was not corrupt.  People need to understand that and stop implying that because he worked for Burnham he was corrupt.

FM

I am not saying he was corrupt, I don't know as much as Gil to determine that.  I did hear that he had money problems and his wife wanted to go back to Trinidad where he was born, and I have no way to verify that.

What I do know is that he empowered Burnham to bring Guyana to its knees and eventually crumbled the economy.  So from my vantage point he is not a good man.

Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:

I am not saying he was corrupt, I don't know as much as Gil to determine that.  I did hear that he had money problems and his wife wanted to go back to Trinidad where he was born, and I have no way to verify that.

What I do know is that he empowered Burnham to bring Guyana to its knees and eventually crumbled the economy.  So from my vantage point he is not a good man.

What was critical support?  Did that empower Burnham?

FM

Gil knows this better than me.  (Age before Beauty!!).  But "critical support" was a policy by the PPP (Cheddi) to support the PNC (Burnham) because they share the same Communist Ideology.  As advised by Castro.

 

Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:

Gil knows this better than me.  (Age before Beauty!!).  But "critical support" was a policy by the PPP (Cheddi) to support the PNC (Burnham) because they share the same Communist Ideology.  As advised by Castro.

 

I guess you didn't get my drift.  I am saying that the PPP empowerd Burnham as much as Chandisingh.  However I must say that i did believe critical support was a good thing at the time even though I was young at the time. 

No use Monday morning quarterbacking at this point.  I leave that up to Caribny and company.

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Mars posted:
Chief posted:
Mars posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

But somebody got double crossed here big time.  Why would Castro support Chandisingh's crossing to the PNC, when the PNC was being orchestrated by the US?  This is some deep seated politics going on here.  In the US this would have been a movie!!!

Burnham made a left turn away from the U.S. at this time. He was in cahoots with Castro and Jagan and they were all taking orders from their Soviet bosses. Castro was the facilitator used by the Russians to bring Burnham and Jagan together in an unholy alliance (Critical Support and later National Front Government) which was used to nationalize the main industries in Guyana.

Until the late great outwitted all of them!!!!!

Burnham was the antithesis of what someone would describe as great in a leader.

In the end he outwitted no one but himself. Castro and Jagan conspired and pulled the ultimate payback on him. He went in to the Public Hospital for a routine operation being carried out by Cuban doctors. He never left under his own steam. Go figure.

Castro delivered the ultimate payback to Burnham indeed.  And let's not forget that his son-in-law Van West Charles was in the room at public hospital when the fatal blow was delivered to Burnham.  Funny how that same son-in-law has re-surfaced in the Granger administration today.

Dr. Roger Forbes Luncheon was also in the room when Burnham died .

comrade

Here is a quote from THE MITROKHIN ARCHIVE by KGB archivist Vasily Mitrokhin who defected to Britain in 1992:

“By 1976 Cuban intelligence was pessimistic about the prospects for challenging American influence in South America. Manuel Piñeiro, head of the Departamento de America, which was responsible for the export of revolution...said only Guyana was following an anti-imperialist course. 'Forbes Burnham, the Prime Minister of Guyana, shares some of the ideas of Marxism-Leninism, but for tactical reasons is forced to conceal this.'

The Soviets agreed with Piñeiro's assessment. In Burnham's Guyana the Soviet Union decided to build their largest embassy in the English-speaking Caribbean. Piñeiro, also called Red Beard, was head of Castro's security for a long time. He died in 1998.

 

 

FM
VVP posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

Gil knows this better than me.  (Age before Beauty!!).  But "critical support" was a policy by the PPP (Cheddi) to support the PNC (Burnham) because they share the same Communist Ideology.  As advised by Castro.

 

I guess you didn't get my drift.  I am saying that the PPP empowerd Burnham as much as Chandisingh.  However I must say that i did believe critical support was a good thing at the time even though I was young at the time. 

No use Monday morning quarterbacking at this point.  I leave that up to Caribny and company.

You are correct.  The PPP empowered Burnham as much as Chandisingh did.  The biggest mistake Cheddi made was to listen to Castro and support Burnham because of Communist ideology. Cheddi had a chance to redeem himself and he didn't.  He should have partnered with D'Aguiar and Jimmy Carter, who was a newly elected president of the US, and take that Guyana government back!!!!

Eventually Carter felt sorry for their foolishness and decided to help the PPP in 1992. 

Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:

Cheddi did not stand up to Kennedy and Churchill.  He rolled over and played dead.  Castro was the one who stood up to them. .

Oh Yes Castro did, slaughtered thousands, and imprisoned multiple times more. Reduced what was once the 4th richest nation in the Americas to a land where people tie pieces of wood to tires, add an engine, and then hope that they don't end up in a tiger shark's belly.   And where doctors spread open their legs at the prospect of a fresh panty.

You all praise Castro and cuss Burnham when they were NO DIFFERENT!

At least Burnham rigged elections and allowed the PPP to scream in parliament.  In Castro land, no elections and all who don't sing his praises JAIL. And that is an improvement as it used to be FIRING SQUAD!

FM
caribny posted

Oh Yes Castro did, slaughtered thousands, and imprisoned multiple times more. Reduced what was once the 4th richest nation in the Americas to a land where people tie pieces of wood to tires, add an engine, and then hope that they don't end up in a tiger shark's belly.   And where doctors spread open their legs at the prospect of a fresh panty.

 

Is which hole you does get this $hit from.  I guess I just answered my question LOL.

What is the GDP of Cuba bai? And who was the ruler prior to Castro??

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Mitwah posted:

LOL! Bibi allways hearing voices....

I hear voices.  But I can spell "allways" correctly.

Bibi, I see  your teacher instincts kicked in . Thanks for being so nice to me and for the correction. You certainly made a me stronger person. You are a great coach.

Mitwah
Last edited by Mitwah

I am surprised that none of you mentioned that the Cubans badly needed to use Atkinson Air force base in Guyana to move Troops and military equipments to Angola.  In exchange for using the base the Cubans armed and trained the Guyana's Peoples Militia.  A few fanatic black soldiers from the Guyana Defense Force joined Cuban troops to fight in Angola and were killed by the UNITA rebels headed by the brilliant Dr. Jona Savimbi. In 1975, I watched the commotion in GT as Cuban troops began landing at Atkinson.  Shell Oil company stopped refueling all planes entering and leaving Guyana.  Burnham would declared it "Crisis in Georgetown".  

During this time the Liberator Party's influence began to grow in the country side as Gunraj Kumar angrily told PPP supporters that the PNC have used Cuban guns to ram down a Marxist/Lennist Constitution down our throats.  This statement would be used years after the Castro's visit and the use of Guyana's territory by Cuba in 1975.

 

 

Billy Ram Balgobin
VVP posted:
caribny posted

Oh Yes Castro did, slaughtered thousands, and imprisoned multiple times more. Reduced what was once the 4th richest nation in the Americas to a land where people tie pieces of wood to tires, add an engine, and then hope that they don't end up in a tiger shark's belly.   And where doctors spread open their legs at the prospect of a fresh panty.

 

Is which hole you does get this $hit from.  I guess I just answered my question LOL.

What is the GDP of Cuba bai? And who was the ruler prior to Castro??

Cannot remember who the previous president of Cuba was. I am in my late 50s and the only leader that Cuba has had was this man. He has had no election, and has arrested the entire opposition, and in the 60s and 70s subjected them to the firing squad.

Yet you all praise Castro and cuss out Burnham.  The hypocrisy is amazing.

Cuban doctors, sent to the Caribbean try to stay their with many marrying locals to do so. I never hear of Caribbean students marrying Cubans to stay there.

Cubans earn US$20 per month, even WORSE than Haitians.  Not only this, but they earn it in a currency which is VALUELESS in Cuba. Only those with access to US dollars, who work in tourism, or who are part of Cuba's elite have access to the currency which doesn't limit them to government stores.  There is NOTHING in the government stores.  Think of Guyana Stores in the 80s!

So we see Cubans flocking to Guyana to buy panties, just as Guyanese use to go to Trinidad!  If you toss a pair of jeans in the air a fight will start as people try to grab it, just as if you tossed food to a mob of stray dogs.

THAT is what Castro did to Cuba!  Now you lot can crown him GOD merely because he cussed out the USA. Yes great. His family live well, with his grand daughter regularly partying in clubs in downtown Manhattan.  This as a poor Cuban is arrested because they bought pork in the countryside, brought it to Havana, and then tried to sell it.

FM
caribny posted:

Cannot remember who the previous president of Cuba was.

 

Let me help you, google Fulgencio Batista.  Here are some stats from wikipedia:

 

GDP

$72.3 billion (Nominal) (2012 est.)[1]

$121 billion (2012 est.)[2](PPP)
GDP rank

66th (nominal) / 66th (PPP)

GDP growth
4.7% (2015 est.)[3]
GDP per capita

$10,200 (2010 est.)[2] (PPP)

GDP by sector
Agriculture: 4%, industry: 23.5%, services: 72.7% (2015 est.)[2]
4.4% (2015 est.)[2]
Population below poverty line

1.5% (2006)

 

FM

PPP is not a legitimate measure for small nations with very open economies.  A high % of what Cubans consume is imported.

BTW throw away these stats. A 1.5% poverty rate in Cuba is clearly false. Try more like 40%.

And as to 72% of the economy being services. Hell Cubans barely have cell phones and wireless internet access is almost impossible to find. So aside from tourism what services do they have?

 

I note that you are too embarrassed to tell us when Batista was removed from power.  It was 1959.

Now how come Castro was in power so long?  Did he win every election? Were there free and fair elections?  Did Cubans have a chance to decide whether they wished him to remain in power?

And what did Castro do to those Cubans who disagreed with him?

Average wage in Cuba is under US$30/monthly and you seriously expect people to believe this.  The rations that they get are quickly exhausted, the gov't stores empty, so they must buy from private stores. These stores do NOT accept the currency most easily accessible to most Cubans.

Clearly the salary earned by those who aren't senior party members, army officers, or who do not work in the tourism sector, or get money from overseas relatives.

Cuba is a land where parents must figure out how to make a chicken and 2 eggs last a week!

In 1959 Cuba was a country of tremendous income inequality with rampant prostitution.  In 2016 it is a country of tremendous income inequality and rampant prostitution.

Here is the difference. Some of the prostitutes are young female doctors who earn Cuban pesos and so find kind foreign men to offer them money or panties.

FM
caribny posted:

Here is the difference. Some of the prostitutes are young female doctors who earn Cuban pesos and so find kind foreign men to offer them money or panties.

Panty for punani, hmmm, dats like offering someone a roti and they offer you the filling for it.

cain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqEFDzq7TCg

 

VVP will try to pretend that a nation like this has a 1.5% poverty rate.

In the meantime buildings in Havana suddenly collapse, killing people, and leaving others homeless. 

Then there is the gentrifications. Buildings repaired and their former dwellers banished to live 2 hours away from their jobs. In a nation with an almost non existent mass transit.

And now a new capitalist class emerges, driving up living costs, and making life even more difficult for the majority.

Batista=Castro.   Cuba in 2016 is NOT the socialist paradise that VVP screams that it is.

Cheddi didn't die in a Havana  hospital. He died in Washington DC.  Janet died in Trinidad.  NEITHER of these communists used Cuban hospitals, which would have been a whole lot cheaper, if this "free healthcare" is to be believed.

 

FM
cain posted:
caribny posted:

Here is the difference. Some of the prostitutes are young female doctors who earn Cuban pesos and so find kind foreign men to offer them money or panties.

Panty for punani, hmmm, dats like offering someone a roti and they offer you the filling for it.

I think that VVP includes incomes derived from the sale of punani so that is why only 1.5% are poor.

FM
VVP posted:

I guess you didn't get my drift.  I am saying that the PPP empowerd Burnham as much as Chandisingh.  However I must say that i did believe critical support was a good thing at the time even though I was young at the time. 

No use Monday morning quarterbacking at this point.  I leave that up to Caribny and company.

I remember my parents hated Jagan's critical support.  They did not trust Burnham, were not fans of Jagan and felt that move provided Burnham the cover to screw over hard-working Indians!

FM
caribny posted:
.

Here is the difference. Some of the prostitutes are young female doctors who earn Cuban pesos and so find kind foreign men to offer them money or panties.

Caribj, what's it with this topic that gives you such a hard-on (no pun[ani] intended?  What it is for you?

FM
ba$eman posted:
caribny posted:
.

Here is the difference. Some of the prostitutes are young female doctors who earn Cuban pesos and so find kind foreign men to offer them money or panties.

Caribj, what's it with this topic that gives you such a hard-on (no pun[ani] intended?  What it is for you?

Because Cuba must be the only country in the world where the doctors are so poor that they must sell their bodies for food or panties.

VVP is trying to tell us that Cubans are richer than Bahamians.

FM
caribny posted

VVP is trying to tell us that Cubans are richer than Bahamians.

Where did I say that?  From what I understand from people who visited Cuba the people are content because they see themselves in a struggle against the USA embargo.  The Canadians who vacation there that I talked to love the place.

I would like to visit to see for myself but the USA blocks me.   I thought we had freedom of travel in the US. 

I would like to see the embargo end and free and fair elections WITHOUT US interference.  Let the people decide!

FM
carib posted

Because Cuba must be the only country in the world where the doctors are so poor that they must sell their bodies for food or panties.

 

I guess that another of your facts pulled straight from your kakahole.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
VVP posted:
carib posted

Because Cuba must be the only country in the world where the doctors are so poor that they must sell their bodies for food or panties.

 

I guess that another of your facts pulled straight from your kakahole.

My son recently visited and said after speaking to some of the musicians there found the musicians,even though not well off, make a bit more than doctors do, it is a strange place alright. Unless they have a tier where certain drs are paid well and others eg family dr who spends the majority of time pushing pills, are paid less.

So in a nutshell, the panty story could hold true, plus I kinda like any panty story.

cain
VVP posted:
carib posted

Because Cuba must be the only country in the world where the doctors are so poor that they must sell their bodies for food or panties.

 

I guess that another of your facts pulled straight from your kakahole.

Better to use engineering jargon, mister.

FM
Gilbakka posted:
VVP posted:
carib posted

Because Cuba must be the only country in the world where the doctors are so poor that they must sell their bodies for food or panties.

 

I guess that another of your facts pulled straight from your kakahole.

Better to use engineering jargon, mister.

Yeh, he shoulda say BThole right?

cain
cain posted:
Gilbakka posted:
VVP posted:
carib posted

Because Cuba must be the only country in the world where the doctors are so poor that they must sell their bodies for food or panties.

 

I guess that another of your facts pulled straight from your kakahole.

Better to use engineering jargon, mister.

Yeh, he shoulda say BThole right?

Nah, sluice pipe LOL

FM
VVP posted:
caribny posted

VVP is trying to tell us that Cubans are richer than Bahamians.

Where did I say that?  From what I understand from people who visited Cuba the people are content because they see themselves in a struggle against the USA embargo.  The Canadians who vacation there that I talked to love the place.

I would like to visit to see for myself but the USA blocks me.   I thought we had freedom of travel in the US. 

I would like to see the embargo end and free and fair elections WITHOUT US interference.  Let the people decide!

Bahamas has a poverty rate way above 1.5% so basically you are claiming that Cuba is one of the richest countries in the world to have a poverty rate that low.

I can only wonder why you think that in a country with a thousand ears you think that a Cuban will tell a foreigner what he really thinks.  As it is when a Cuban talks to a tourist he is being observed. If he tells them that Cuba is a hell hole, that he loves Obama, and that he is glad that Castro is dead, he will be instantly arrested.   When he is sent home likely that his balls will be crushed, or his face permanently disfigured.

Ask yourself how many Guyanese would have gone to Pegasus and cussed out Burnham to some foreigner, when one never knew who was listening?  NO ONE!

In fact the vast majority of Cubans are poor, as the vast majority do not earn enough to feed themselves. Many live in buildings that collapse, and in fact every year scores of Cubans die when their homes fall down on them. The survivors are banished to live 2 hours from their jobs in a country where few own cars and where mass transit is almost absent.

I can only wonder why a country where the average person must work TWO months, to be able to buy a shirt is a land where you admire.

Listen Burnham used to cuss out the USA and the UK and rant all sorts of anti imperialist crap, so if that is all that it takes to earn your admiration you must seriously consider him a hero.

And who are these people to decide what happens in Cuba?  Where are the free and fair elections? What mechanisms do Cubans have to communicate what they really think?

I bet you scream that Burnham was a dictator, even though Janet and Cheddi had the right to run their mouths on him and go to the UN and scream that he has turned Guyana into an apartheid.

You think that if they said that about Castro they would be alive?

No they would be either shot by a firing squad, or would be ranting incoherently in Miami.

And you are just making an excuse.  Those who really want to go to Cuba can easily find a way to go.  Just join some group engaged in some kind of people to people tour, and off you go.  Many travel agencies will happily arrange this.

 

FM

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