Skip to main content

DOT denies Caribbean carriers’ bids to serve Guyana-New York route

By Gay Nagle Myers
The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) turned down requests from two Caribbean airlines to offer nonstop service between New York and Georgetown, Guyana.
DOT said Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica "had not provided compelling evidence" that the flights would be in the public interest, according to an order signed by Paul Gretch, director of DOT's Office of International Aviation.
"In light of these existing Georgetown-New York services and the lack of a showing by the applicants that there is a truly demonstrable need for additional Georgetown-New York services, we are unable to find that the proposals satisfy the public-interest test," the order stated.
With Delta ceasing its New York-Guyana service last May, Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica looked to fill the void. But their bids to enter the market were opposed by Airlines for America (the trade group representing U.S. airlines) and the Air Line Pilots Association.
Airlines for America and ALPA had argued that Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica are not entitled to serve a route between the U.S. and Guyana because they are based in third countries — Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica, respectively.
Both Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica may continue to operate one-stop service between Guyana and New York, routing through Port-of-Spain, Trinidad, and Kingston, Jamaica, respectively. 

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Mr Jagdeo/Mr Bobby invested 2 mill USD into EasyJet. They took away from Delta the diplomatic pouches and give to EasyJet. Delta pulled out. The people suffer because of the thieving by Jagdeo/Ramotar/Irfan/Brassoington/Luncheon/gold smuggler Persaud

FM

ALPA had argued that Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica are not entitled to serve a route between the U.S. and Guyana because they are based in third countries — Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica, respectively.

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:

ALPA had argued that Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica are not entitled to serve a route between the U.S. and Guyana because they are based in third countries — Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica, respectively.

 

You missed the point why Delta pulled out.

FM
Originally Posted by JB:
Originally Posted by Cobra:

ALPA had argued that Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica are not entitled to serve a route between the U.S. and Guyana because they are based in third countries — Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica, respectively.

 

You missed the point why Delta pulled out.

The reason is why U.S.(DOT) denied a request for not granting direct flights from GEO/NYC. Delta is past tense.

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Originally Posted by JB:
Originally Posted by Cobra:

ALPA had argued that Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica are not entitled to serve a route between the U.S. and Guyana because they are based in third countries — Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica, respectively.

 

You missed the point why Delta pulled out.

The reason is why U.S.(DOT) denied a request for not granting direct flights from GEO/NYC. Delta is past tense.

No the Guyanese people are suffering because Jagdeo/Ramotar/Bobby/Irfan made Delta pull out. 

FM
Originally Posted by JB:
Originally Posted by Cobra:
Originally Posted by JB:
Originally Posted by Cobra:

ALPA had argued that Caribbean Airlines and Fly Jamaica are not entitled to serve a route between the U.S. and Guyana because they are based in third countries — Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica, respectively.

 

You missed the point why Delta pulled out.

The reason is why U.S.(DOT) denied a request for not granting direct flights from GEO/NYC. Delta is past tense.

No the Guyanese people are suffering because Jagdeo/Ramotar/Bobby/Irfan made Delta pull out. 

Guyanese are hurting because Delta pull out prematurely? May be Delta didn't want to get them pregnant.  

FM

with deep reservation, I will join the "Chatter"

 

 

The DOT denied Ca and AJ purely due to the fact the bilateral does not cover Guyana with any of these carriers.

 

Travelspan got approval and will be using Vision Air to start from Dec 14th subject to GOG speedily approval. This is a US based operator getting approval.

 

The GOG must now issue National Carrier status to TravelSpan

Vish M
Originally Posted by Vish M:

with deep reservation, I will join the "Chatter"

 

 

The DOT denied Ca and AJ purely due to the fact the bilateral does not cover Guyana with any of these carriers.

 

Travelspan got approval and will be using Vision Air to start from Dec 14th subject to GOG speedily approval. This is a US based operator getting approval.

 

The GOG must now issue National Carrier status to TravelSpan

 

Travelspan will do well if the cocaine pilot allows it to. Remember Delta?

FM
Originally Posted by Vish M:

with deep reservation, I will join the "Chatter"

 

 

The DOT denied Ca and AJ purely due to the fact the bilateral does not cover Guyana with any of these carriers.

 

Travelspan got approval and will be using Vision Air to start from Dec 14th subject to GOG speedily approval. This is a US based operator getting approval.

 

The GOG must now issue National Carrier status to TravelSpan

 

 

 

Travelspan CANNOT get national carrier status from Guyana because it is neither based there, nor is it based in a neighboring country which Guyana enjoys commonality of interests.  Guyana can offer such status to carriers based in Suriname, Tdad, and Jamaica.   And contrary to what the stupid PPP seems to think, they can award these rights to several of these.

 

Canada recognizes this which is why CAL has nonstops to YYZ and FJ has also been given this right.  The US DOT has traditionally allowed this as well, and BOTH BWIA and Air Jamaica enjoyed rights to do JFK Bdos JFK.  So Vishnu if CAL loses this national carrier status then Canada based Guyanese will be back to changing planes in POS.  Delta was nasty and petitioned Guyana to not have these rights that several other CARICOM nations without their own carriers have.

 

Vishnu sorry to burst your bubble but all the DOT did was to prevent CAL and FJ from doing JFK GEO JFK.  CAL will continue to do POS GEO JFK GEO POS.  And FJ will fly nonstop to GEO from JFK on Fridays.

 

Not every one wants some unreliable charter that might suddenly cease service like they did the last time.  True Travelspan has more integrity than EZjet, and Universal, and actually refunded people their money.  But then they had to pay high fares to scramble for the few remaining seats when its ceased service.

 

ALso understand that TS will not charge fares that will result in their inability to sustain their operations, so folks will get the same $600-700 fares that they got up to 2011, before EZjet disrupted the market causing DL to leave.  Fuel prices are high and GEO is one of the most expensive caribbean airports to use.  And GEO is a drug station so carriers have to spend more to secure their planes from trafficking.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by JB:
Originally Posted by Vish M:

with deep reservation, I will join the "Chatter"

 

 

The DOT denied Ca and AJ purely due to the fact the bilateral does not cover Guyana with any of these carriers.

 

Travelspan got approval and will be using Vision Air to start from Dec 14th subject to GOG speedily approval. This is a US based operator getting approval.

 

The GOG must now issue National Carrier status to TravelSpan

 

Travelspan will do well if the cocaine pilot allows it to. Remember Delta?


Whats interesting is that EVERY airline flying to GEO has complained about this drug problem, even if the PPP wishes to deny this fact.

 

Travelspan will also have to deal with this issue.

FM
Originally Posted by redux:
Originally Posted by Vish M:

with deep reservation, I will join the "Chatter" . . .

 

The GOG must now issue National Carrier status to TravelSpan

seriously . . .?

 

smh


Vishnu os a;ways screaming to get is Richmond Hill friends hooked up.  Even though they always disappoint by suddenly canceling service.

 

Dont remember hearing anything from Vishnu when the PPP was dragging their feet to five Fly Jamaica permission to service GEO.

FM

GOG gave AJ a National Carrier.....Is this a joke....then it must be a serious joke.

 

How many years of flights from Guyana for it to get a National Carrier status?

 

Who was paid?

 

If it is true, then Why?

Vish M

Don't believe anything that liar CaribJ says, he is giving his own opinion why delta left Guyana and passing it off as though it was fact. Delta clearly stated that it left Guyana because of profitability which was questionable given that their flights were always full. The other idiot JohnBull also claimed it was drugs. None of these fools know what they are talking about. They both giving opinion from their basement section 8 apartments while contemplating how to get their foodstamps due to govt shutdown, so their judgments are clouded. 

 

In fact that liar CaribJ claimed that it was EZjet that drove out Delta. But the fact is that EZJet was long closed before Delta took the decision to pull out. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

Don't believe anything that liar CaribJ says, he is giving his own opinion why delta left Guyana and passing it off as though it was fact. Delta clearly stated that it left Guyana because of profitability which was questionable given that their flights were always full. The other idiot JohnBull also claimed it was drugs. None of these fools know what they are talking about. They both giving opinion from their basement section 8 apartments while contemplating how to get their foodstamps due to govt shutdown, so their judgments are clouded. 

 

In fact that liar CaribJ claimed that it was EZjet that drove out Delta. But the fact is that EZJet was long closed before Delta took the decision to pull out. 

 

EZJet was given the diplomatic purses. A friend of the PPP invested 2 mill USD into EZJet. You must know that person. 

FM
Originally Posted by Vish M:

GOG gave AJ a National Carrier.....Is this a joke....then it must be a serious joke.

 

How many years of flights from Guyana for it to get a National Carrier status?

 

Who was paid?

 

If it is true, then Why?


VIsh M.  I wish you wouldnt daily reveal your ignorance of aviation.

 

1.  Any govt can nominate any carrier located within its borders, or where allowed, within the borders of a nation with which it has a community of interest (CARICOM for Guyana, or maybe Brazil as I think that Guyana is in Mercosur).  Such allocations are for route purposes only.  So Guyana can nominate as many as they wish.  Canada is allowing Guyana to designate CAL and FJ.  The USA is not for selfish reasons.

 

So here is the deal Vishnu.  Both CAL and FJ are limited to flights where GEO is an intermediate stop, enroute to the USA. As in POS GEO JFK  GEO JFK offered by CAL.  Or JFK GEO KIN, offered by FJ. Or will offer service where a stop in that airline's base will be necessary as in GEO POS JFK, and GEO KIN JFK.  Given that there will be empty seats on the POS GEO POS, and the KIN GEO KIN sectors, Guyanese will pay more as these airlines will have to cover these costs.

 

2.  get your head out of the notion that Guyana will have its own airline.  These days few small nations do.  Look at most countries in the Caribbean, and Central America.  Few do, but instead use neighboring carriers to enable them to access routes elsewhere.

 

3.  Sorry Vishnu Travelspan is a US domiciled entity and will NEVER be able to be Guyana's national carrier.  Guyana is also a Cat 2 nation and so CANNOT have a Guyana domiciled carrier designated as such.  So CAL, FJ, and Surinam, and possibly a Brazilian carrier, can serve that purpose.  TS cannot.  TS also cannot set up a Guyanese subsidiary as they will not eb allowed to fly to the USA, or to Canada due to Guyana's cat 2 designation.

 

 

So sorry your RH buddies cannot run afoul of international aviation law.

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

Don't believe anything that liar CaribJ says, he is giving his own opinion why delta left Guyana and passing it off as though it was fact. Delta clearly stated that it left Guyana because of profitability which was questionable given that their flights were always full. The other idiot JohnBull also claimed it was drugs. None of these fools know what they are talking about. They both giving opinion from their basement section 8 apartments while contemplating how to get their foodstamps due to govt shutdown, so their judgments are clouded. 

 

In fact that liar CaribJ claimed that it was EZjet that drove out Delta. But the fact is that EZJet was long closed before Delta took the decision to pull out. 


druggie if DL really isnt interested ion GEO then why are they doing every thing to make it harder for other carriers to serve that route?

 

I know that you are crying that Ezjet (the same one you called AFC/PNC) is no longer around, but in 2012 their ridiculous fares made both CAL and DL lose money.  The fcat that Guyana continues to let in flyt by nights has also destroyed the credibility of the country, which is why theycannot get credible international carriers to replace DL.

FM
Originally Posted by JB:
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

Don't believe anything that liar CaribJ says, he is giving his own opinion why delta left Guyana and passing it off as though it was fact. Delta clearly stated that it left Guyana because of profitability which was questionable given that their flights were always full. The other idiot JohnBull also claimed it was drugs. None of these fools know what they are talking about. They both giving opinion from their basement section 8 apartments while contemplating how to get their foodstamps due to govt shutdown, so their judgments are clouded. 

 

In fact that liar CaribJ claimed that it was EZjet that drove out Delta. But the fact is that EZJet was long closed before Delta took the decision to pull out. 

 

EZJet was given the diplomatic purses. A friend of the PPP invested 2 mill USD into EZJet. You must know that person. 

Lies, Sonny was a friend of the AFC, in fact it is said that Ezjet was the personal drug carrier for the afc/pnc fund raising campaign. When ezjet was grounded it was interesting to note that robberies in Guyana went up as the afc/pnc shifted their focus to local criminal activities to fill their campaign chest to fund mo fiah slow fiah and sporting by afc/pnc leadership,. 

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

Don't believe anything that liar CaribJ says, he is giving his own opinion why delta left Guyana and passing it off as though it was fact. Delta clearly stated that it left Guyana because of profitability which was questionable given that their flights were always full. The other idiot JohnBull also claimed it was drugs. None of these fools know what they are talking about. They both giving opinion from their basement section 8 apartments while contemplating how to get their foodstamps due to govt shutdown, so their judgments are clouded. 

 

In fact that liar CaribJ claimed that it was EZjet that drove out Delta. But the fact is that EZJet was long closed before Delta took the decision to pull out. 


druggie if DL really isnt interested ion GEO then why are they doing every thing to make it harder for other carriers to serve that route?

 

I know that you are crying that Ezjet (the same one you called AFC/PNC) is no longer around, but in 2012 their ridiculous fares made both CAL and DL lose money.  The fcat that Guyana continues to let in flyt by nights has also destroyed the credibility of the country, which is why theycannot get credible international carriers to replace DL.

You see liars like you are caught in their own trap, first you claimed that ezjet caused delta to pull out, now it looks like you are taking a graceful exit.

The Guyana govt should not be running airlines as it is not their function as a governing body. All international carriers were invited to Guyana but they all neglected as it was low volume compared to other nations. Stop spreading lies suggesting that the govt are somehow preventing reputable airline carriers from plying the Guyana route. 

 

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

Don't believe anything that liar CaribJ says, he is giving his own opinion why delta left Guyana and passing it off as though it was fact. Delta clearly stated that it left Guyana because of profitability which was questionable given that their flights were always full. The other idiot JohnBull also claimed it was drugs. None of these fools know what they are talking about. They both giving opinion from their basement section 8 apartments while contemplating how to get their foodstamps due to govt shutdown, so their judgments are clouded. 

 

In fact that liar CaribJ claimed that it was EZjet that drove out Delta. But the fact is that EZJet was long closed before Delta took the decision to pull out. 


druggie if DL really isnt interested ion GEO then why are they doing every thing to make it harder for other carriers to serve that route?

 

I know that you are crying that Ezjet (the same one you called AFC/PNC) is no longer around, but in 2012 their ridiculous fares made both CAL and DL lose money.  The fcat that Guyana continues to let in flyt by nights has also destroyed the credibility of the country, which is why theycannot get credible international carriers to replace DL.

You see liars like you are caught in their own trap, first you claimed that ezjet caused delta to pull out, now it looks like you are taking a graceful exit.

The Guyana govt should not be running airlines as it is not their function as a governing body. All international carriers were invited to Guyana but they all neglected as it was low volume compared to other nations. Stop spreading lies suggesting that the govt are somehow preventing reputable airline carriers from plying the Guyana route. 

 

 

The government don't try to run it. The private thieves do. But the failed as Easy jet. 

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
 

Lies, Sonny was a friend of the AFC, in fact it is said that Ezjet was the personal drug carrier for the afc/pnc fund raising campaign. When ezjet was grounded it was interesting to note that robberies in Guyana went up as the afc/pnc shifted their focus to local criminal activities to fill their campaign chest to fund mo fiah slow fiah and sporting by afc/pnc leadership,. 


If EZjet was an AFC airline you would be maligning them rather than running to their defense.  I claim that EZjet resulted in airlines flying between JFK and GEO sustaining losses and you rush to scream that they didnt.

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
.

You see liars like you are caught in their own trap, first you claimed that ezjet caused delta to pull out, now it looks like you are taking a graceful exit.

The Guyana govt should not be running airlines as it is not their function as a governing body. All international carriers were invited to Guyana but they all neglected as it was low volume compared to other nations. Stop spreading lies suggesting that the govt are somehow preventing reputable airline carriers from plying the Guyana route. 

 


Exit from what.  EZjet jumped in with $400 airfares, forcing CAL and DL to respond.  Both lost millions of dollars as a result.  The only difference is that Guyana is CAL's second largest market after Trinidad, but matters nothing to DL, so they left, not willing to risk further losses if some other fly by night entered the market.

 

Here we see Vishnu screaming for some outfit based in teh USA to be anointed as Guyana's flag carrier.  The PPP has this bad habit to rewarding their friends with route rights and indeed not that long ago some fiasco called Fly Guyana was being promoted by the PPP.  It does appear that that venture crashed before it took after, saving Guyanese from hardships when they inevitably became stranded again, and Guyana looking stupid for being unable to sustain service on what should eb a profitable route.

 

Now as to low volume.  St Kitts gets 66k visitors from the USA.  St Lucia gets 115K.  Antigua gets 93k.  Barbados gets 130k.  Guyana got 100k last year.  Given that most of the visitors into those islands are tourists they will be flying in from a variety of points in the USA, and might find Miami more convenient. 

 

Given that over 90% of Guyana's visitors from the USA are Guyanese, this means that the vast majority arrive from NYC.  So there is as much if not MORE volume into GEO from JFK than into these other islands. 

 

In addition airfares into GEO are always very high when compared to those islands. Except when some comedy act like EZjet enters the market.

 Tourists will refuse to fly if they dont like the fares.  Overseas nationals will grumble but must fly as they have to take care of business back home, and maintain contacts with their relatives.

 

So whats your babble about Guyana and low volume?  Airlines do not like to enter markets where incompetent competitits can enter at will and destroy yields by charging fares that results in EVRY airline, including that stupid carrier, losing vast amounts of money. 

 

In addition GEO has a bad reputation of being a very out of control airport when it comes to drug trafficking, and airlines wish to avoid paying penalties.  CAL has complained.  Fly Jam is now complaining, and Delta has also complained.  American refuses to service GEO for reasons of their own.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×