Django posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

The worst part you live near Uncle Odeen and you tun PNC.

Worster yet, she grew up in front of him. 

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

A great percentage of Indians and Blacks lack the knowledge of ansestral history. They doan feel obliged. Even in Guyana they live as communities within communities. There is the rare occasion of being informed.

At the Pegasus, I met this Prof. from the University of the West Indies a day after I read in the paper of his lecture on the Demerara Rebellion. 

He was getting his breakfast.

I was behind him. 

I mentioned to him what I read in the paper.

"Had I known there was such a lecture, I would have loved to attend. I have spent  alot of time reading everyting I could on Demerara Rebellion. I feel convinced it prompted the quick emergence of emancipation."

He appeared astonished. 

Replied, "yuh read up on it."

Maybe, I was hoping he'd say,"tell me lil cooolie bai wah yuh know bout it." 

seignet posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

A great percentage of Indians and Blacks lack the knowledge of ansestral history. They doan feel obliged. Even in Guyana they live as communities within communities. There is the rare occasion of being informed.

At the Pegasus, I met this Prof. from the University of the West Indies a day after I read in the paper of his lecture on the Demerara Rebellion. 

He was getting his breakfast.

I was behind him. 

I mentioned to him what I read in the paper.

"Had I known there was such a lecture, I would have loved to attend. I have spent  alot of time reading everyting I could on Demerara Rebellion. I feel convinced it prompted the quick emergence of emancipation."

He appeared astonished. 

Replied, "yuh read up on it."

Maybe, I was hoping he'd say,"tell me lil cooolie bai wah yuh know bout it." 

Would that be the 1823 rebellion? I just bought a book on that, "Crowns of Glory, Tears of Blood".

Stormborn posted:

Cheddi Jagan and Forbes Burnham were terrible, failed leaders

August 10, 2012 | By KNews | Filed Under Letters 

Email Share

 

Dear Editor,
Forbes Burnham and Cheddi Jagan have cast deep, dark and foreboding shadows across this land. The racial strife, social animosity, defunct political party structures, dismal leadership, economic stagnation, criminality, cronyism and ethnic politics that cripple this country are their legacies. That any country could be visited in the same era by two leaders who absolutely squandered their natural talents is staggering. That this happened to a poor backwater country is even more devastating.
Cheddi Jagan was an ideologue. Communism dominated his thought patterns, life and decision-making. Forbes Burnham was a megalomaniac. The pursuit of personal power was his dominant life philosophy. One was all about the ideological cause, while the other was all about himself. These two themes that consumed the two men wreaked destruction in Guyana.
Guyana paid a terrible price for their misgivings, inadequacies and derelict personalities. While they were academically brilliant, I do not consider Jagan and Burnham as intelligent leaders. Both were slaves to foreign ideologies (communism and socialism) that ironically, were crafted in the very West that they condemned. They both failed to read and disregarded the economic realities and desires of the populace before imposing foreign ideologies like communism and socialism. Their leadership led to Guyana’s economic decline from 1957 to present.
Instead of expanding and improving an existing capitalist model, they sought to introduce and impose foreign ideologies on an economy that was unprepared to handle it and lacked the financial support to implement it. It is more expensive to change an entire economic model than it is to perfect an existing model. Furthermore, it is virtually impossible to achieve communist or socialist utopia in a poorly populated society further divided along racial lines.
These ideologies required the embrace of the entire population to economically work. In addition, the Guyanese people had a natural propensity for capitalist entrepreneurism and commercialism. In fact, what Jagan (from 1957 to 1964) and Burnham (from 1964 to 1985) did was to cripple the natural Guyanese inclinations to wealth creation, commercialism and capitalist energies by establishing state-controlled economic structures.
In Burnham’s case, the costly experiment with state-dominated socialism from 1964 to 1985 led to the complete destruction of African entrepreneurism and capitalist endeavours, which led to further impoverishment and economic marginalization of Africans. If Cheddi Jagan obtained power in 1964, Indians would have suffered the same fate under a Jagan communist government. Ironically and shamefully, these men are still celebrated by their ethnic constituencies as legends.
Forbes Burnham and Cheddi Jagan lacked situational and strategic intelligence and realpolitik awareness. They were bull-headed and hard-headed. They did not think of the nation first, but of ideology and self before nation. Burnham lapsed terribly by not profiting from his relationship with the USA after it helped him to power in 1964. Burnham forsook the opportunity to build a capitalist society backed by massive American capital and investment for a socialist shell of a country wracked by poverty, malnutrition and despair.
Jagan did not learn from the resistance of the West when he was Premier from 1957 to 1964 and instead of adapting and adjusting, he became emboldened with his communist philosophy and was rudely awakened in 1964. The real powers in Guyana, the West, was not on trial in the ensuing 28 years. The owners of the law do not go on trial and the West owned the law in Guyana in 1964.
It is the ideological dunces who miss the cues; who not only go on trial, but put an entire voting constituency on trial. Similarly, Forbes Burnham and his successor (Hoyte) failed to change the debacle of the PNC 1980 Constitution before 1992 and it has been relentlessly used in the past 20 years by the PPP to abuse the nation.
Jagan and Burnham were too consumed with communist and socialist ideology and their quest for personal power to comprehend these fundamental truths about their own country. In fact, many facets of Burnham’s rule were closer to communism than socialism. I strongly believe that despite the opportunity presented by the Americans to infuse massive capital into Guyana, Burnham chose socialism over capitalism because it was easier for him to gain maximum power through the state-command structure of socialism. Capitalism would have made Guyana wealthier, but also would have made Burnham more vulnerable politically. Socialism was a means to greater personal power for a megalomaniac like Burnham.
The most frightening legacy Burnham and Jagan have left us with is racial division. They openly practiced Apaan Jhaat and African power politics and were the chief agitators in the nation’s most terrifying period of racial strife in the 1960s. This scar continues to run deep within Guyana. It does not help that their backward economic policy-making has perpetuated the poverty racism needs to remain a menace.
The sickening state bureaucracy rooted in party paramountcy is another symptom of the disease Burnham and Jagan left with us. The fat cat salaries the PPP pays its own at the Office of the President is a reminder of this atrocity. The party paramountcy of Burnham and Jagan suffocates this country. Rank incompetents with no skill, brainpower, decency, integrity or qualifications get contracts and plum positions just for having a party card and nothing between their ears.
Forbes Burnham and Cheddi Jagan have left us political structures that practice no internal democracy and demonstrate no accountability or transparency. Their parties are still rigging internal elections, voting by Stalinist show of hands, suspending constitutionally-required congresses and handpicking their own candidates.
They soil soiled this country. They were followers, not leaders. They just happened to be around when the British decided it was going to transition to independence. One was a brilliant orator and the other had the human touch. Beyond that, they have left us nothing to be proud of and in my opinion, have contributed nothing of substance to this country. They have done nothing any other leader of that generation in power from 1953 to 1999 would not have done or could not have done better. Our shameful existence today is testament to the failures of these two men and the horrendous legacy they left us.
M. Maxwell

It seems like some of you are posting without reading the article first. 

GTAngler posted:

seignet posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

A great percentage of Indians and Blacks lack the knowledge of ansestral history. They doan feel obliged. Even in Guyana they live as communities within communities. There is the rare occasion of being informed.

At the Pegasus, I met this Prof. from the University of the West Indies a day after I read in the paper of his lecture on the Demerara Rebellion. 

He was getting his breakfast.

I was behind him. 

I mentioned to him what I read in the paper.

"Had I known there was such a lecture, I would have loved to attend. I have spent  alot of time reading everyting I could on Demerara Rebellion. I feel convinced it prompted the quick emergence of emancipation."

He appeared astonished. 

Replied, "yuh read up on it."

Maybe, I was hoping he'd say,"tell me lil cooolie bai wah yuh know bout it." 

Would that be the 1823 rebellion? I just bought a book on that, "Crowns of Glory, Tears of Blood".

Yes. 

Is the book in a history form or as a Novel. 

I was attempting to write a novel weaved around that time period. Still hoping one day it will. 

seignet posted:

GTAngler posted:

seignet posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

A great percentage of Indians and Blacks lack the knowledge of ansestral history. They doan feel obliged. Even in Guyana they live as communities within communities. There is the rare occasion of being informed.

At the Pegasus, I met this Prof. from the University of the West Indies a day after I read in the paper of his lecture on the Demerara Rebellion. 

He was getting his breakfast.

I was behind him. 

I mentioned to him what I read in the paper.

"Had I known there was such a lecture, I would have loved to attend. I have spent  alot of time reading everyting I could on Demerara Rebellion. I feel convinced it prompted the quick emergence of emancipation."

He appeared astonished. 

Replied, "yuh read up on it."

Maybe, I was hoping he'd say,"tell me lil cooolie bai wah yuh know bout it." 

Would that be the 1823 rebellion? I just bought a book on that, "Crowns of Glory, Tears of Blood".

Yes. 

Is the book in a history form or as a Novel. 

I was attempting to write a novel weaved around that time period. Still hoping one day it will. Crowns of Glory, Tears of Blood: The Demerara Slave Rebellion of 1823

Crowns of Glory, Tears of Blood: The Demerara Slave Rebellion of 1823

Book by Emília Viotti Da Costa

The night of August 17, 1823 saw the start of one of the most massive slave rebellions in the history of the Western Hemisphere, the uprising in the British colony of Demerara, in which nearly twelve thousand slaves took up arms against their masters. In Crowns of Glory, Emilia Viotti da Costa tells the riveting story of this pivotal moment in the history of slavery. Studying the complaints brought by slaves to the office of the Protector of Slaves, she reconstructs the experience of slavery through the eyes of the Demerara slaves themselves. Da Costa also draws on eyewitness accounts, official records, and private journals, to paint a vivid portrait of a society in transition, shaken to its foundations by the recent revolutions in America, France, and Haiti. Casting new light on the nuances of racial relations in the colonies, the inevitable clash between the missionaries' message of Christian brotherhood and a social order based on masters and slaves, and the larger historical forces that were profoundly eroding the institution of slavery itself, Crowns of Glory is an original and unforgettable book.

The night of August 17, 1823 saw the start of one of the most massive slave rebellions in the history of the Western Hemisphere, the uprising in the British colony of Demerara, in which nearly twelve thousand slaves took up arms against their masters. In Crowns of …

• Author:Emília Viotti da Costa
• First published: 1994
• Number of pages: 400
• Genres:History · Non-fiction · Grad School · Cultural · Academic

and here is another one by Publisher's Weekly

Crowns of Glory, Tears of Blood: The Demerara Slave Rebellion of 1823

With thorough, judicious research, Yale history professor da Costa reconstructs ``one of the greatest slave uprisings . . . of the New World,'' which occurred in the British colony of Demerara, now known as Guyana, in 1823. She records the debates in Britain and its outposts over rights and reforms, showing how planters and missionaries differed and how the colony's slaves grew resentful of the pace of change. Missionary John Smith, drawn to Demerara by serendipity, became a convert to the slaves' causes and was blamed for the rebellion; he was sentenced to death, but died in jail. Da Costa suggests, rather, that some 12,000 slaves, stimulated by rumors of freedom and by harassment, linked to one another by family and work loyalties, started the uprising on their own, seizing their plantations. Though only three whites died during the rebellion, hundreds of slaves were killed or wounded and 33 were executed after summary trial. The conflict ultimately influenced the British decision a decade later to abolish slavery in its colonies. Illustrations not seen by PW . (May)

I found the entire incident to be very interesting. I have read many accounts on efforts on how to end slavery in the colonies. Thomas Clarkson sought the support of the Anglo Indians of India to flood the English market place with products to force West Indian planters to free the slaves.

Interesting for me, Gladstone owned Plantation Success. On that estate, Quamina son was a barrel marker. He had the freedom to travel around the Demerara Estates. He apparently was privy to information the planters had concerning the debates in House of Commons. Interesting accounts of the rights of slaves.

John Smith aware of the rights, sought the approval of the colony's governor to teach the slaves. Quamina lead a group of slaves to the church where they recieved teaching/read the Bible. From the church the rebellion was planned. Quamina tried to talk them out of it, but in the end agreed to it. His son took the instructions to the other estate slaves.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Django posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

The worst part you live near Uncle Odeen and you tun PNC.

Silver Springs, MD is very far from Florida.    

It's in the past while living in Guyana.

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Hey Django, do you consider Americans racist and if YES how are they confronting racism.

Dave posted:

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Hey Django, do you consider Americans racist and if YES how are they confronting racism.

Like Django is becoming radicalized like the Congo Lady ? Trump should ship him back to Congo Land, Guyana for being a Neemakharan to the USA.

Dave posted:

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Hey Django, do you consider Americans racist and if YES how are they confronting racism.

I doan experience any serious issues in my neck of the woods.My younger son went to all white school from elementary to high,there are probably ten coloreds in the whole class,never had any problems.

I mentioned i am the only Guyanese owned a Commercial building in a 90 % white town,my tennant is white.My small business covers a radius of 30 miles from base,95% of my customers are white.

By the way no one try that crap with Django,i put them at their place.One time a guy from Portugal call me a sand monkey in my shop,he was from the hood,I told him get the fvck out of here and off my property,we nearly duke it out.I studied martial arts wasn't afraid,he said he studied kung fu,i told him good any time you ready.He was also younger than i am,anyway he backed out.

Racism in the ole USA is depends on where you live,the Country is huge.Don't take a few incidents and blanket the whole Country.I visited a few states never have any problems.It's also a serious offense,there is jail time.

Me thinks the practice in Guyana is illegal,it's in the Constitution.I will have to take a look.

yuji22 posted:

Dave posted:

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Hey Django, do you consider Americans racist and if YES how are they confronting racism.

Like Django is becoming radicalized like the Congo Lady ? Trump should ship him back to Congo Land, Guyana for being a Neemakharan to the USA.

Not so easy and by the way speak with some sense.

Django posted:

Dave posted:

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Hey Django, do you consider Americans racist and if YES how are they confronting racism.

I doan experience any serious issues in my neck of the woods.My younger son went to all white school from elementary to high,there are probably ten coloreds in the whole class,never had any problems.

I mentioned i am the only Guyanese owned a Commercial building in a 90 % white town,my tennant is white.My small business covers a radius of 30 miles from base,95% of my customers are white.

By the way no one try that crap with Django,i put them at their place.One time a guy from Portugal call me a sand monkey in my shop,he was from the hood,I told him get the fvck out of here and off my property,we nearly duke it out.I studied martial arts wasn't afraid,he said he studied kung fu,i told him good any time you ready.He was also younger than i am,anyway he backed out.

Racism in the ole USA is depends on where you live,the Country is huge.Don't take a few incidents and blanket the whole Country.I visited a few states never have any problems.It's also a serious offense,there is jail time.

Me thinks the practice in Guyana is illegal,it's in the Constitution.I will have to take a look.

Blacks, which you are consider part of is only 3.1 % around Wethersfield. 

What colour belt you have. Heard Yuji22 has black.

seignet posted:

cain posted:

Iguana posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Gwana man writes like our resident buckman.

Is not one dog named Pompei bai! Writing style is not unique. Clue me in Skeleton, is everything here about race? Fuss ah notice you trying fuh figure out if I is a black man or not. Now you call me a buck man (which is a pejorative that you use with ease. Troubling.) Then last night KP the former PNC engineer and lover of duck curry laced with shit hurl he racist black man comments at me.

Looks like every opinion here is seen thru the prism of race. A sensible argument can be made, but if the poster is not an Indian then the racist  bile comes out. Worse yet, any criticism of the PPP is immediately construed as anti Indian. Even if Indians here criticize the PPP they get called names.

And I assume most of y'all living overseas and should know better. No wonder Guyana is a shithole country. 

Good post!

Now yuh expose the man. The only person yuh ever agree with is D2. Suh, yuh comfirm the assumption by a poster, "buckman writing."

Ahmmmmmm! Ahmmmmmm!

You notice the original post was from Starmbarn way back in 2012? Who will remember bai, except the original poster? He eased up on dem big word a little bit.

Dave posted:

Django posted:

Dave posted:

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Hey Django, do you consider Americans racist and if YES how are they confronting racism.

I doan experience any serious issues in my neck of the woods.My younger son went to all white school from elementary to high,there are probably ten coloreds in the whole class,never had any problems.

I mentioned i am the only Guyanese owned a Commercial building in a 90 % white town,my tennant is white.My small business covers a radius of 30 miles from base,95% of my customers are white.

By the way no one try that crap with Django,i put them at their place.One time a guy from Portugal call me a sand monkey in my shop,he was from the hood,I told him get the fvck out of here and off my property,we nearly duke it out.I studied martial arts wasn't afraid,he said he studied kung fu,i told him good any time you ready.He was also younger than i am,anyway he backed out.

Racism in the ole USA is depends on where you live,the Country is huge.Don't take a few incidents and blanket the whole Country.I visited a few states never have any problems.It's also a serious offense,there is jail time.

Me thinks the practice in Guyana is illegal,it's in the Constitution.I will have to take a look.

Blacks, which you are consider part of is only 3.1 % around Wethersfield. 

What colour belt you have. Heard Yuji22 has black.

No way Yuji wud evah have a BLACK belt. Maybe dark grey........

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Not going to happen. We are a people used to running away muttering "ah wah yuh guh do bai". I hold out some hope the situation will get better but I think it will take decades.

a. As I read the posts here, looks like most of you here are older (60+) or close to it. Racism in those generations is endemic on both sides for the most part. Most have personal experiences of discrimination during the PNC years and there are fears of the other race (in some cases based on personal experience or learnt behavior from parents). This is not going away. Unfortunately the KPs, Yugis, Skeletons, Prashads et al have to die out first (naturally of course).

b. Barring further racial incidents in Guyana, the younger  ones coming up experience each other in a less threatening manner. The more they work and live together, the more values and culture are exchanged and less race becomes a factor. They will focus more on economic class. Young folks of Guyanese extraction living overseas have long abandoned the racism.

Not an overnight process, no matter how much "social cohesion" ministries there are. This cannot be a forced process. In the US, it took decades after the abolition of slavery for the civil rights movement and it's still going on.

Iguana posted:

Django posted:

Iguana posted:

Leonora posted:

Hey Guana, because I don't worship Jagdeo, his devotees call me PNC.

That's a shame...I assume from the pic you are an Indian female. Seems we can't discuss history, politics or share opinions unless our race is known. Everything is judged based on one's race. We are one fked up people.

 

Bhai,i known that a long while.

Guyanese have to confront racism,don't stand idle.

Not going to happen. We are a people used to running away muttering "ah wah yuh guh do bai". I hold out some hope the situation will get better but I think it will take decades.

a. As I read the posts here, looks like most of you here are older (60+) or close to it. Racism in those generations is endemic on both sides for the most part. Most have personal experiences of discrimination during the PNC years and there are fears of the other race (in some cases based on personal experience or learnt behavior from parents). This is not going away. Unfortunately the KPs, Yugis, Skeletons, Prashads et al have to die out first (naturally of course).

b. Barring further racial incidents in Guyana, the younger  ones coming up experience each other in a less threatening manner. The more they work and live together, the more values and culture are exchanged and less race becomes a factor. They will focus more on economic class. Young folks of Guyanese extraction living overseas have long abandoned the racism.

Not an overnight process, no matter how much "social cohesion" ministries there are. This cannot be a forced process. In the US, it took decades after the abolition of slavery for the civil rights movement and it's still going on.

Well said.....

I think Granger re-created Racism Burnham Style. 

People always resent ppl of different culture in their midst. It is a human thing.

The East Indian immigrant must have been viewd with contempt by the Coloureds and uppity Afroes at the time. Certainly, earlier Novelist viewed Indians in a negative way in their writings-a reality and not imaginings.

While the impoverished Indians were toiling in the canefields of British Guiana, there were plots to run dem out of the Whiteman Colony.