Unlike Burnham, Jagan was not a shrewd politician. Jagan was outflanked, outmaneuvered and checkmated by Burnham at every move. Case in point....he knew how to manipulate the western powers, always ahead of Jagan...telling them that Jagan was the worst alternative.

Kiddo, the western powers allowed Burnham to hold on to power.

Have lots of files, declassified and interviews of US Foreign Diplomats, dating back to 1950's

I could comment on several points, maybe later. 

However, I always Jagan led his cane cutter brigade into the abyss.  And yes, the cane cutters rule the PPP supported the strongest by the lowest on the totem pole.  

And your point is correct regarding a solution within the PPP itself.  Jagan cleansed it of any free thinkers and people who challenge him.  He wanted blind followers who does as he says.  It’s the same philosophy today. The only difference, we don’t have a Cold War situation.

On the point of Blackman owning Guyana, well dem Buxtonians come to America and think they own it too!  So tell me something I don’t know! 

Bai Vish, while all your observations are rife in ideals, they are ignoring the realities on the ground. Firstly, Guyana is a place desperately lacking people with the requisite skills for almost every job including political ones. As much as the PPP has not been able to elevate the livelihoods of the average Indian, they have still been the best representatives that Indians ever had. The PNC was never going to care as much for Indians. Secondly, no matter what the PPP did for blacks or how much they elevate their livelihoods more than the PNC did, blacks would still vote for the PNC. So PPP chasing their tails to accommodate blacks would barely have any effect of black tribal voting habits. Thirdly, Jagan was a victim of the times as Communism was spreading while he was coming up as a politician but he was not responsible for the destruction of Guyana and its economy. Burnham and Hoyte were. Fourthly, how come those House of Israel members were so violent while they were members of the PNC but 180 degrees after they joined the PPP? That is proof that it is the PNC who influences and encourages violence. PNC violence is not a perception of Indians. It is the reality. For about two years between 1990 and 1992, the PNC 'government' headed by Hoyte frustrated Jimmy Carter and his organization until eventually elections were held. But even that did not come without PNC and their supporters' violence to the point that Jimmy Carter had to be held up in a hotel room for his safety. Then the PPP took over in 1992 and elections went on without the kind of shenanigans that we have been witnessing recently since we are again dealing with a lawless PNC group. Today the country is again back in the dog house where they are about to lose all legitimacy and the real victims are the citizens of Guyana. Those are the elements that you should be contemplating.

The PPP may not be perfect but for 6 decades now, the PNC has always been a curse on the land and people of Guyana.

Getting freedom from the CAPITALIST ideology that was enslaving the people and then embracing the same ideology. What could go wrong?

Django posted:

Unlike Burnham, Jagan was not a shrewd politician. Jagan was outflanked, outmaneuvered and checkmated by Burnham at every move. Case in point....he knew how to manipulate the western powers, always ahead of Jagan...telling them that Jagan was the worst alternative.

 

Kiddo, the western powers allowed Burnham to hold on to power.

Have lots of files, declassified and interviews of US Foreign Diplomats, dating back to 1950's

One of the things one has to keep in mind is that being possessed of a Machiavellian mind is not a virtue. Getting ones way to entertain evil ends is not laudable. Why do we say one is "outsmarted" is one is constrained by moral and cultural norms and another treats the same with contempt? 

I am not choir boy for Cheddi. However his faults is not his lack of good sense. His faults are because he lacked a ruthless streak and committed himself to dialectical materialism like a true disciple. To him, the Marxist creed was natural, historical and inevitable.

He forgot that the foundation of this creed;  thesis, antithesis and synthesis are merely strategy, a way of approaching and rationalizing methodology and not an existential reality of things. In that respect he lives like most Marxists in an idealized reality.

Burnham, on the other hand, lived in an ethical dead zone. If you imagine thick black theory ( check what it is) as a conscienceless engine,you have Burnham. He was crude and a bully with a means to end schema that did not involve thinking of anyone ( not even black people who were means) but himself. And Foreign diplomats, to a man and woman, realized who he was. He was simply the least bothersome to their personal interest of having global control over the soviets. 

Stormborn posted:

He forgot that the foundation of this [Marxist] creed; thesis, antithesis and synthesis are merely strategy, a way of approaching and rationalizing methodology and not an existential reality of things. 

gibberish

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

He forgot that the foundation of this [Marxist] creed; thesis, antithesis and synthesis are merely strategy, a way of approaching and rationalizing methodology and not an existential reality of things. 

gibberish

That you are confused is not my problem. Air in the head  does not conduct signal very well.

Prashad use to read Brindley Benn newspaper and have a huge laugh.  Only Jagan could have been the brilliance in Brindley.

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

He forgot that the foundation of this [Marxist] creed; thesis, antithesis and synthesis are merely strategy, a way of approaching and rationalizing methodology and not an existential reality of things. 

gibberish

That you are confused is not my problem. Air in the head  does not conduct signal very well.

ahmmm . . . “gibberish” is never confusing

i became an expert picking it up while watching my little ones at play as they tried to make sense of a big, intimidating world

so,  juss as long as you and i know yuh full of sh!t,

is arite . . . abie little secret

lol

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

He forgot that the foundation of this [Marxist] creed; thesis, antithesis and synthesis are merely strategy, a way of approaching and rationalizing methodology and not an existential reality of things. 

gibberish

That you are confused is not my problem. Air in the head  does not conduct signal very well.

ahmmm . . . “gibberish” is never confusing

i became an expert watching my little ones at play as they tried to make sense of a big, intimidating world

so,  juss as long as you and i know yuh full of sh!t,

is arite . . . abie little secret

lol

you ought to be confused not to grasp the ontology of Marxist dialectical  materialism is in hegalianism.

If you became an expert by becoming a behaviorist that is your problem. That you are full of shit is your secret not mine. I am not afraid to write and express what I intend. You on the other hand hints at vast intellectual resources and all we get are these pretentious tidbits of in the form of excoriating verbiage. 

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

He forgot that the foundation of this [Marxist] creed; thesis, antithesis and synthesis are merely strategy, a way of approaching and rationalizing methodology and not an existential reality of things. 

gibberish

That you are confused is not my problem. Air in the head  does not conduct signal very well.

ahmmm . . . “gibberish” is never confusing

i became an expert watching my little ones at play as they tried to make sense of a big, intimidating world

so,  juss as long as you and i know yuh full of sh!t,

is arite . . . abie little secret

lol

you ought to be confused not to grasp the ontology of Marxist dialectical  materialism is in hegalianism.

you are a silly little dilettante with a superficial grasp of too many things about which you prance around proclaiming expertise here

so, when you post gibberish, i will point to it

when you post allied nonsense, i will point to it

i know all the big words, so i am NEVER at a disadvantage

to the extent that what i do ‘interferes’ with the validation and approbation you seek, that is your own mediocre affair

i do not consider it worthwhile to lecture or attempt to educate beyond what is obvious the RACISTS and posers who idle here

or engage in debate with intellectual frauds . . . they know who they are

that would be a monumental waste of my time

i am mostly here to point to, expose and subject to RIDICULE jokers, scamps and infants such as you

there are a couple of other reasons . . . but that’s private

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

He forgot that the foundation of this [Marxist] creed; thesis, antithesis and synthesis are merely strategy, a way of approaching and rationalizing methodology and not an existential reality of things. 

gibberish

That you are confused is not my problem. Air in the head  does not conduct signal very well.

ahmmm . . . “gibberish” is never confusing

i became an expert watching my little ones at play as they tried to make sense of a big, intimidating world

so,  juss as long as you and i know yuh full of sh!t,

is arite . . . abie little secret

lol

you ought to be confused not to grasp the ontology of Marxist dialectical  materialism is in hegalianism.

you are a silly little dilettante with a superficial grasp of too many things about which you prance around proclaiming expertise here

so, when you post gibberish, i will point to it

when you post allied nonsense, i will point to it

i know all the big words, so i am NEVER at a disadvantage

to the extent that what i do ‘interferes’ with the validation and approbation you seek, that is your own mediocre affair

i do not consider it worthwhile to lecture or attempt to educate beyond what is obvious the RACISTS and posers who idle here

or engage in debate with intellectual frauds . . . they know who they are

that would be a monumental waste of my time

i am mostly here to point to, expose and subject to RIDICULE jokers, scamps and infants such as you

there are a couple of other reasons . . . but that’s private

Again with the fishwife busedown. You have nothing to offer. Of course what I know is superficial ( again that allusion to your intellect without evidence) but we are still to see what you know. I care little about what big words you know. I care about how you use the words in your tool kit. So far it is just to cuss and brag about what is not apparent from anything you say.

Whatever racists are here or who are frauds does not detract from speaking what one knows to be right. One is not a racist because one is stupid.  Some very very smart people are racists but cling to mistaken beliefs about race. Francis Crick who most of all should know we are the same inside is a big fat racist. 

But one does not get a racist to listen by pretending to be better than them. One simply states the facts as they are because the reality is one does not live for them or hold opinions because of them. One lives for one's self and one have opinions because of the  value of the intrinsic moral precepts for lives in general.

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

you are a silly little dilettante with a superficial grasp of too many things about which you prance around proclaiming expertise here

so, when you post gibberish, i will point to it

when you post allied nonsense, i will point to it

i know all the big words, so i am NEVER at a disadvantage

to the extent that what i do ‘interferes’ with the validation and approbation you seek, that is your own mediocre affair

i do not consider it worthwhile to lecture or attempt to educate beyond what is obvious the RACISTS and posers who idle here

or engage in debate with intellectual frauds . . . they know who they are

that would be a monumental waste of my time

i am mostly here to point to, expose and subject to RIDICULE jokers, scamps and infants such as you

there are a couple of other reasons . . . but that’s private

Of course what I know is superficial ( again that allusion to your intellect without evidence) but we are still to see what you know. I care little about what big words you know. I care about how you use the words in your tool kit. So far it is just to cuss and brag about what is not apparent from anything you say.

so, you think that i am talking there about ME using "big words" eh?

wan rale dull knife i dealing with here

you obviously spend way too much time hanging with drugB/ksazma caliber 'intellectuals'

with clueless jokers like you, i don't even need to stretch far to make my point

lol

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

you are a silly little dilettante with a superficial grasp of too many things about which you prance around proclaiming expertise here

so, when you post gibberish, i will point to it

when you post allied nonsense, i will point to it

i know all the big words, so i am NEVER at a disadvantage

to the extent that what i do ‘interferes’ with the validation and approbation you seek, that is your own mediocre affair

i do not consider it worthwhile to lecture or attempt to educate beyond what is obvious the RACISTS and posers who idle here

or engage in debate with intellectual frauds . . . they know who they are

that would be a monumental waste of my time

i am mostly here to point to, expose and subject to RIDICULE jokers, scamps and infants such as you

there are a couple of other reasons . . . but that’s private

Of course what I know is superficial ( again that allusion to your intellect without evidence) but we are still to see what you know. I care little about what big words you know. I care about how you use the words in your tool kit. So far it is just to cuss and brag about what is not apparent from anything you say.

so, you think that i am talking there about ME using "big words" eh?

wan rale dull knife i dealing with here

you obviously spend way too much time hanging with drugB/ksazma caliber 'intellectuals'

with clueless jokers like you, i don't even need to stretch far to make my point

lol

You are clearly a well seasoned troll. I said I do not care for what words you use, multi syllabic or not but how you is it. I also do not care about you as it is clearly being revealed that you are a nit.

You would not know an intellectual if you meet one. You have to believe in something and defend it vigorously but what is apparent is you think your intellectual largess is illustrated by your peculiar turn of phrases,craniometrics and penchant for cuss down. Of course you do not have to streach far. As far as you have stretched to this point is colored only by your idiocy.

ronan posted:

lol

You are clearly a well seasoned troll. I said I do not care for what words you use, multi syllabic or not but how you is it. I also do not care about you as it is clearly being revealed that you are a nit.

You would not know an intellectual if you meet one. You have to believe in something and defend it vigorously but what is apparent is you think your intellectual largess is illustrated by your peculiar turn of phrases,craniometrics and penchant for cuss down. Of course you do not have to streach far. As far as you have stretched to this point is colored only by your idiocy.

buctaless in the middle of the GNI street . . . breeze blowin

uh huh

more ignominy in your future . . . clueless klown

watch this space

lol

You can console yourself that such is the case but it would not detract from the reality you are a delusional nit. 

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

you are a silly little dilettante with a superficial grasp of too many things about which you prance around proclaiming expertise here

so, when you post gibberish, i will point to it

when you post allied nonsense, i will point to it

i know all the big words, so i am NEVER at a disadvantage

to the extent that what i do ‘interferes’ with the validation and approbation you seek, that is your own mediocre affair

i do not consider it worthwhile to lecture or attempt to educate beyond what is obvious the RACISTS and posers who idle here

or engage in debate with intellectual frauds . . . they know who they are

that would be a monumental waste of my time

i am mostly here to point to, expose and subject to RIDICULE jokers, scamps and infants such as you

there are a couple of other reasons . . . but that’s private

Of course what I know is superficial ( again that allusion to your intellect without evidence) but we are still to see what you know. I care little about what big words you know. I care about how you use the words in your tool kit. So far it is just to cuss and brag about what is not apparent from anything you say.

so, you think that i am talking there about ME using "big words" eh?

wan rale dull knife i dealing with here

you obviously spend way too much time hanging with drugB/ksazma caliber 'intellectuals'

with clueless jokers like you, i don't even need to stretch far to make my point

lol

I said I do not care for what words you use, multi syllabic or not but how you is it. I also do not care about you as it is clearly being revealed that you are a nit.

heh heh heh

clueless señor six 'ead now buctaless in the middle of the GNI street . . . breeze blowin

uh huh

more ignominy in your future banna

watch this space

lol

ronan posted:

 

so, you think that i am talking there about ME using "big words" eh?

wan rale dull knife i dealing with here

you obviously spend way too much time hanging with drugB/ksazma caliber 'intellectuals'

with clueless jokers like you, i don't even need to stretch far to make my point

lol

I said I do not care for what words you use, multi syllabic or not but how you is it. I also do not care about you as it is clearly being revealed that you are a nit.

heh heh heh

clueless señor six 'ead now buctaless in the middle of the GNI street . . . breeze blowin

uh huh

more ignominy in your future banna

watch this space

lol

I am am having a grand time imagining what  the hell can you a stuttering troll do to change the reality of my life? Dream on!

Stormborn posted:

ronan posted:

 

so, you think that i am talking there about ME using "big words" eh?

wan rale dull knife i dealing with here

you obviously spend way too much time hanging with drugB/ksazma caliber 'intellectuals'

with clueless jokers like you, i don't even need to stretch far to make my point

lol

I said I do not care for what words you use, multi syllabic or not but how you is it. I also do not care about you as it is clearly being revealed that you are a nit.

heh heh heh

clueless señor six 'ead now buctaless in the middle of the GNI street . . . breeze blowin

uh huh

more ignominy in your future banna

watch this space

lol

I am am having a grand time imagining what  the hell can you a stuttering troll do to change the reality of my life? Dream on!

i'm happy you are 'happy'

har har