quote:

Originally posted by seignet:
This trial is really stupid. The PNC had every board member as a Negro. No indian was anywhere to be seen or heard of.

.

So does this mean that the PPP has to have an Indo in every slot and then claim this is right?

You will say the PNC is racist. Then why is the PPP not racist when it engages in the same behavior?

quote:

Originally posted by BGurd_See:
This is an interesting case, if Freddie's lawyers can prove that the PPP govt promotes racist policies then it can be compared to some of the civil rights cases fought by Thurgood Marshall.

I await the outcome. hahahahahhah

I am glad you see the parallels. PPP Guyana and Jim Crow USA.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by BGurd_See:
This is an interesting case, if Freddie's lawyers can prove that the PPP govt promotes racist policies then it can be compared to some of the civil rights cases fought by Thurgood Marshall.

I await the outcome. hahahahahhah

I am glad you see the parallels. PPP Guyana and Jim Crow USA.

I dont think that will be the outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by DND:
The simple response is there was no other qualified candidate at the time the decision was made based on information that was available.

Funny that there is NEVER an qualified African candidate. Dont you find it odd in a country where 30-40% are black and the pool of educated blacks in the total pool of potential candidates is as least as much as this amount? We arent talking about selecting the best rice farmer here where one can argue few blacks farm rice on a large scale.

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
CARIBJ:I am glad you see the parallels. PPP Guyana and Jim Crow USA.

I dont think that will be the outcome.[/QUOTE]

So Guyana isnt Jim Crow South. Its just the USA under Rush Limbaugh. Still racist.

The chickens are coming home to roost. Since 20023 I have said this. The PPP denied this. Now finally they are being made to answer for this.

I eagerly await news on the staffing of Georgetown Hospital. Given the ethnicity of those who have traditionally been in health care administration in Guyana it will be interesting to hear the laments that its mainly Indians because they cant find blacks.

Lucky for you this mandate doesnt extend to Indian owned private sector corporations as it will then look even worse.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
CARIBJ:I am glad you see the parallels. PPP Guyana and Jim Crow USA.

I dont think that will be the outcome.

So Guyana isnt Jim Crow South. Its just the USA under Rush Limbaugh. Still racist.

The chickens are coming home to roost. Since 20023 I have said this. The PPP denied this. Now finally they are being made to answer for this.

I eagerly await news on the staffing of Georgetown Hospital. Given the ethnicity of those who have traditionally been in health care administration in Guyana it will be interesting to hear the laments that its mainly Indians because they cant find blacks.

Lucky for you this mandate doesnt extend to Indian owned private sector corporations as it will then look even worse.[/QUOTE]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Not luckily for me, luckily for the economy. You will not impose ownership on any indian corp, LFNS tried to run them out of business and see the PNC dreams died with it. There will be some form of affirmative action but that's about it. Poeple have to earn their way and keep, but there should be a level playing ground.

Answer me, under the 28 year rule, why have there not been a sustained development of Afro-owned business?

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
So Guyana isnt Jim Crow South. Its just the USA under Rush Limbaugh. Still racist.

The chickens are coming home to roost. Since 20023 I have said this. The PPP denied this. Now finally they are being made to answer for this.

I eagerly await news on the staffing of Georgetown Hospital. Given the ethnicity of those who have traditionally been in health care administration in Guyana it will be interesting to hear the laments that its mainly Indians because they cant find blacks.

Lucky for you this mandate doesnt extend to Indian owned private sector corporations as it will then look even worse.

The problem is that not too many Black candidates applied for these positions because they would be perceived to be selling out. You can't force a person to accept a political post if they belong to the PNc. Note that ambassadorships are awarded as political appointments, those candidates traditionally come from within the ranks of the party, guess how many educated Blacks were in the PPP when those positions were offered? It is only now they see the light when milk is offered and many are now joining. It takes mass influx at the bottom of the party in order for the leadership to reflect the diversity. So far people like yourself rather stay out of the game in case they are called Indian lovers. ahhahahhahahahha

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
Answer me, under the 28 year rule, why have there not been a sustained development of Afro-owned business?

First of all for you to seriously say that Burnham encouraged black woned businesses is to show how ignorant you are. Why all his socialist rhetoric?

Burnham gave a bunch of his cronies, who had no expertise or business experience, full access to the assets of Coop Bank etc to buy their loyalty. He drove out independent minded blacks. The last thing he wanted was the development of an independent class of black business people who had no need of his largesse. He was sthe Kabaka and all must bend to his rule, so please dont give Burnham legitimacy by claiming that he wanted to help "his" people. HE DID NOT.

Secondly if he did succeed in developing black businesses, and destroyed non black businesses to ensure their success. Then these black owned businesses decided that Indians should only be hired for the lowest positions. Meaning that a young Indo had no hope in Guyana would that have been right?

Would it have bene right for young Indos graduating for UG to see a future blocked out of the public AND private sector because of AfroGuaynese racism? The notion being "if you wnat a job start your own business, even though we derive revenues from selling to you"? Because this is what you are saying.

You will note I am NOT debating about why blacks are under represented as business owners. I am talking about the employment practises of Indian controlled public and private sector entities.

Note that if you have 30-40% of the population, excluded, impoverished and angry this doesnt even work in the long term interests of wealthy Indians, except for those who have moved all their wealth to Barbados and Florida.

quote:

Originally posted by BGurd_See:


The problem is that not too many Black candidates applied for these positions because they would be perceived to be selling out.

And you know this? You know that the blacks who were in ACTING capacities did want to be appointed so that they could retire with a higher pension? Well you dont know much because these people, were very vocal in asking to get appointed before their mandatory retirment date.

For you to admit that the PPP lacks sufficient potential candiadtes within its ranks indicates that blacks overwhelming reject the PPP. Why druggie after 19 years of rule when all agree that the PNC ha sno prospect of every winning another election?'

Note that Rudy Insannally was arguably Guyana's most important ambassador under Burnham. Apparently the PNC was more willing to darw from outsode its ethnic bloc when it recognized that it needed top talent. Jagsdeo has no such thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by BGurd_See:


The problem is that not too many Black candidates applied for these positions because they would be perceived to be selling out.

And you know this? You know that the blacks who were in ACTING capacities did want to be appointed so that they could retire with a higher pension? Well you dont know much because these people, were very vocal in asking to get appointed before their mandatory retirment date.

For you to admit that the PPP lacks sufficient potential candiadtes within its ranks indicates that blacks overwhelming reject the PPP. Why druggie after 19 years of rule when all agree that the PNC ha sno prospect of every winning another election?'

Note that Rudy Insannally was arguably Guyana's most important ambassador under Burnham. Apparently the PNC was more willing to darw from outsode its ethnic bloc when it recognized that it needed top talent. Jagsdeo has no such thinking.

Not true, after Jagan took over he cleaned shop like any new govt would, cleaning out the PNC supporters and potential sabotager. He messed up when he did not clean up the GPF and GDF, in fact he could not get Indians at leadership position in the armed forces because they were excluded by your party for so long that none were qualified. Today milk has solved the problem but still Indians should have their children join the armed forces as a civic duty.

quote:

Originally posted by BGurd_See:
in fact he could not get Indians at leadership position in the armed forces y.

Druggie the PNC has not been in power for 19 years. Ironically when they were in they had Indians in leadership positions in BOTh the GDF and the GPF. Does Joe Singh ring a bell?

Indos dont join because they have better things to do. Why tolerate abuse and danger for measly wages? Blacks with few options join, and most leave as soon as they can. Both the GDF and the GPF are understaffed. Many of them end up working in your friends' private militias and commit criminal cats when not needed. With guns supplied to them too!!

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
Apparently the PNC was more willing to darw from outsode its ethnic bloc when it recognized that it needed top talent. thinking.

Hehehe! Maybe black people weren't that talented then

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Max:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:
Apparently the PNC was more willing to darw from outsode its ethnic bloc when it recognized that it needed top talent. thinking.

Hehehe! Maybe black people weren't that talented then

PPP ignorance. It means getting the BEST man. The PNC was more willing to get the BEST man if he wasnt black then the PPP is if he isnt Indian.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by BGurd_See:
in fact he could not get Indians at leadership position in the armed forces y.

Druggie the PNC has not been in power for 19 years. Ironically when they were in they had Indians in leadership positions in BOTh the GDF and the GPF. Does Joe Singh ring a bell?

Indos dont join because they have better things to do. Why tolerate abuse and danger for measly wages? Blacks with few options join, and most leave as soon as they can. Both the GDF and the GPF are understaffed. Many of them end up working in your friends' private militias and commit criminal cats when not needed. With guns supplied to them too!!

One token joe singh does not indicate the true state of the forces. The govt should not spend every dime to ensure the gdf and gpf are 1st world standard, they have to take a balanced outlook to development, budgeting monies to areas of need in order of priority. hahahahahah

quote:

Originally posted by BGurd_See:
One token joe singh does not indicate the true state of the forces.

True. Neither does one token like Roger Luncheon. So you have establised that both the PNC and the PPP are racist organizations with similar patterns of ethnic excluson.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
Answer me, under the 28 year rule, why have there not been a sustained development of Afro-owned business?

First of all for you to seriously say that Burnham encouraged black woned businesses is to show how ignorant you are. Why all his socialist rhetoric?

Burnham gave a bunch of his cronies, who had no expertise or business experience, full access to the assets of Coop Bank etc to buy their loyalty. He drove out independent minded blacks. The last thing he wanted was the development of an independent class of black business people who had no need of his largesse. He was sthe Kabaka and all must bend to his rule, so please dont give Burnham legitimacy by claiming that he wanted to help "his" people. HE DID NOT.

Secondly if he did succeed in developing black businesses, and destroyed non black businesses to ensure their success. Then these black owned businesses decided that Indians should only be hired for the lowest positions. Meaning that a young Indo had no hope in Guyana would that have been right?

Would it have bene right for young Indos graduating for UG to see a future blocked out of the public AND private sector because of AfroGuaynese racism? The notion being "if you wnat a job start your own business, even though we derive revenues from selling to you"? Because this is what you are saying.

You will note I am NOT debating about why blacks are under represented as business owners. I am talking about the employment practises of Indian controlled public and private sector entities.

Note that if you have 30-40% of the population, excluded, impoverished and angry this doesnt even work in the long term interests of wealthy Indians, except for those who have moved all their wealth to Barbados and Florida.

As I told you, I grew up in a PNC stronghold and saw with the PNC did to uplift their constituency. I saw them rise and fall and the Indians survived. I saw the land distribution and the eventually sale to indian farmers after the lock-up period ended. You can say what you want, it is how it it, not a PPP/PNC thing.

The fact that you are angry and chose to blame LFSB does not change history. The man tried his best to uplift his constituency and he was disappointed. I would agree, he did try to woo Indian businessmen to illustrate that Indian interests are protected under a PNC Govt, a pledge he made in 1964.

As I said I do agree that there should be equity in hiring regardless who owns a business. Everyone should have/find a stake in the game. No society will develop is everyone in not engaged in a meaningful way. The PNC failed due to lack of engagement and the PPP will only go so far without engagement of the other constituencies.

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
. The man tried his best to uplift his constituency and he was disappointed. .

I lived in Georgetown the largest PNC stronghold. I also knew people who were in contact with Burnham in his private moments. The man used to laugh at how foolish black people were to think he cared about them. Burnham was a middle class snob and like most of these he had nothing but contempt for the masses, black or Indian.

He gave out goodies to buy patronage. He didnt care whether those who got were deserving or capable...and as you saw they sold the lands as soon as they could.

He deliberately had over staffed offices, wasted money on Peoples Militia and other unproductive entities. Many of thes efrom rural villages.

AfroGuyanese had a base in farming and other business activities BEFORE Burnham came in. He destroyed it. Why did this happen if he was really interested? Jobs for the boys, square pegs in round holes and Office Assistants who terrorized ministers because they were in the YSM.

Burnham set out to make blacks dependent on him and he succeeded.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
. The man tried his best to uplift his constituency and he was disappointed. .

I lived in Georgetown the largest PNC stronghold. I also knew people who were in contact with Burnham in his private moments. The man used to laugh at how foolish black people were to think he cared about them. Burnham was a middle class snob and like most of these he had nothing but contempt for the masses, black or Indian.

He gave out goodies to buy patronage. He didnt care whether those who got were deserving or capable...and as you saw they sold the lands as soon as they could.

He deliberately had over staffed offices, wasted money on Peoples Militia and other unproductive entities. Many of thes efrom rural villages.

AfroGuyanese had a base in farming and other business activities BEFORE Burnham came in. He destroyed it. Why did this happen if he was really interested? Jobs for the boys, square pegs in round holes and Office Assistants who terrorized ministers because they were in the YSM.

Burnham set out to make blacks dependent on him and he succeeded.

This is true.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
. The man tried his best to uplift his constituency and he was disappointed. .

I lived in Georgetown the largest PNC stronghold. I also knew people who were in contact with Burnham in his private moments. The man used to laugh at how foolish black people were to think he cared about them. Burnham was a middle class snob and like most of these he had nothing but contempt for the masses, black or Indian.

He gave out goodies to buy patronage. He didnt care whether those who got were deserving or capable...and as you saw they sold the lands as soon as they could.

He deliberately had over staffed offices, wasted money on Peoples Militia and other unproductive entities. Many of thes efrom rural villages.

AfroGuyanese had a base in farming and other business activities BEFORE Burnham came in. He destroyed it. Why did this happen if he was really interested? Jobs for the boys, square pegs in round holes and Office Assistants who terrorized ministers because they were in the YSM.

Burnham set out to make blacks dependent on him and he succeeded.

More reasons for Afro-Guyanese to abandon the PNC and vote AFC. With the AFC, Guyana immediately gets a responsible opposition who can hold the PPP accountable for their actions. I predict that after that the next election will belong to the AFC.

quote:

Originally posted by DND:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
. The man tried his best to uplift his constituency and he was disappointed. .

I lived in Georgetown the largest PNC stronghold. I also knew people who were in contact with Burnham in his private moments. The man used to laugh at how foolish black people were to think he cared about them. Burnham was a middle class snob and like most of these he had nothing but contempt for the masses, black or Indian.

He gave out goodies to buy patronage. He didnt care whether those who got were deserving or capable...and as you saw they sold the lands as soon as they could.

He deliberately had over staffed offices, wasted money on Peoples Militia and other unproductive entities. Many of thes efrom rural villages.

AfroGuyanese had a base in farming and other business activities BEFORE Burnham came in. He destroyed it. Why did this happen if he was really interested? Jobs for the boys, square pegs in round holes and Office Assistants who terrorized ministers because they were in the YSM.

Burnham set out to make blacks dependent on him and he succeeded.

More reasons for Afro-Guyanese to abandon the PNC and vote AFC. With the AFC, Guyana immediately gets a responsible opposition who can hold the PPP accountable for their actions. I predict that after that the next election will belong to the AFC.

Correct, why they want the AFC to join the PNC when the PNC failed to deliver for it's constituency. At least the PPP has done things for the poeple who supported them. Caribj always talk half and leff half.

quote:

Originally posted by DND:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
. The man tried his best to uplift his constituency and he was disappointed. .

I lived in Georgetown the largest PNC stronghold. I also knew people who were in contact with Burnham in his private moments. The man used to laugh at how foolish black people were to think he cared about them. Burnham was a middle class snob and like most of these he had nothing but contempt for the masses, black or Indian.

He gave out goodies to buy patronage. He didnt care whether those who got were deserving or capable...and as you saw they sold the lands as soon as they could.

He deliberately had over staffed offices, wasted money on Peoples Militia and other unproductive entities. Many of thes efrom rural villages.

AfroGuyanese had a base in farming and other business activities BEFORE Burnham came in. He destroyed it. Why did this happen if he was really interested? Jobs for the boys, square pegs in round holes and Office Assistants who terrorized ministers because they were in the YSM.

Burnham set out to make blacks dependent on him and he succeeded.

More reasons for Afro-Guyanese to abandon the PNC and vote AFC. With the AFC, Guyana immediately gets a responsible opposition who can hold the PPP accountable for their actions. I predict that after that the next election will belong to the AFC.

ha you have been exposed you are actually a pro AFC spy, you should resign from the PPP right now immediately.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by DND:
. They can say Jagdeo made poor judgment but it is difficult to prove racism.

You mean poor judgement that he excludes 55% of the population when he selects people for to posts? Especially the 30-40% black segment?

Lets not be naive. You select people who are loyal to your policy. Many Afro-Guyanese who are educated was either loyal to the PNC, or left Guyana because they wanted nothing to do with Burnham. The few Afro-Guyanese who took positions in the PPP government were considered "sellouts" and "traitors" by the the PNC and supporters. Even people like you did not make it easy for AFro-Guyanese to join the PPP. You preferred that they fund youths to take up guns and terrorize the population.

In he early days of the PPP and up until the early 2000's my friends in the PNC kept telling me that it is only a matter of time before the PPP government is thrown out. Why would they join a party on its way out.

They funny thing is they had confidence that the American government was going to step in to help remove the PPP. Guyanese...we never want to take responsibility for our future.

I would not call people like Lumumba, westford, westmaas, Neaz Subhan, Nascimento etc sell outs.

I would call them very smart opportunists.

quote:

Originally posted by Horse Man:

quote:

Originally posted by DND:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
. The man tried his best to uplift his constituency and he was disappointed. .

I lived in Georgetown the largest PNC stronghold. I also knew people who were in contact with Burnham in his private moments. The man used to laugh at how foolish black people were to think he cared about them. Burnham was a middle class snob and like most of these he had nothing but contempt for the masses, black or Indian.

He gave out goodies to buy patronage. He didnt care whether those who got were deserving or capable...and as you saw they sold the lands as soon as they could.

He deliberately had over staffed offices, wasted money on Peoples Militia and other unproductive entities. Many of thes efrom rural villages.

AfroGuyanese had a base in farming and other business activities BEFORE Burnham came in. He destroyed it. Why did this happen if he was really interested? Jobs for the boys, square pegs in round holes and Office Assistants who terrorized ministers because they were in the YSM.

Burnham set out to make blacks dependent on him and he succeeded.

More reasons for Afro-Guyanese to abandon the PNC and vote AFC. With the AFC, Guyana immediately gets a responsible opposition who can hold the PPP accountable for their actions. I predict that after that the next election will belong to the AFC.

ha you have been exposed you are actually a pro AFC spy, you should resign from the PPP right now immediately.

Never been a member of the PPP, PYO, ACG, WPO,... do they have anything else?

My position has always been the same. As long as their is a PNC there will be a need for a PPP. When you remove the PNC as the main opposition then people will begin to vote based on the policies of the party and not fear. The PPP served a purpose and still do today. But a democracy should never have one party in power for that long. It is time for the AFC under the leadership of Ramjatan to take the reigns of power. Ramjantan is a bright visionary who can lead Guyana into the future.

This will be good for the PPP. Men like Frank Anthony, Robert Persaud, Irfan Ali, etc...need to step up to the plate. With a loss fresh faces will come up also.

I welcome the debate between those mentioned above and people like Gerhard and TK. All of them have something to offer.

How will robert step up to the plate? by having more children in america born as americans?

quote:

Originally posted by DND:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:


Burnham set out to make blacks dependent on him and he succeeded.

More reasons for Afro-Guyanese to abandon the PNC and vote AFC. With the AFC, Guyana immediately gets a responsible opposition who can hold the PPP accountable for their actions. I predict that after that the next election will belong to the AFC.

Afros can do as they wish. If the AFC looks like a waste of time some might think their day is better spent selling something on the road instead of hours spent waiting to vote.

The AFC has to EARN their vote.

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:
]
Correct, why they want the AFC to join the PNC when the PNC failed to deliver for it's constituency. At least the PPP has done things for the poeple who supported them. Caribj always talk half and leff half.

A leading AFC official stated that a large chunk of people are involved in an industry of homeless and drug addicts.

Is this how the AFC hopes to win the support of grass roots blacks, many of whom are involved in the minibus industry?

quote:

Originally posted by Horse Man:
I would not call people like Lumumba, westford, westmaas, Neaz Subhan, Nascimento etc sell outs.

I would call them very smart opportunists.

An opportunist is a sell out. Westford I will exclude as I believe she was always PPP.

quote:

Originally posted by DND:

Lets not be naive. You select people who are loyal to your policy. .

So the PNC was correct then to exclude Indians? After all how many Indians supported the PNC?

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by DND:

Lets not be naive. You select people who are loyal to your policy. .

So the PNC was correct then to exclude Indians? After all how many Indians supported the PNC?

The PNC was a lot more extreme. They started to exclude at the lowest echelons of the civil service ladder. That does not happen under the PPP Government. The civil service is still predominantly Afro-Guyanese, even though the PPP has been in power since 1992. That says quite a bit about the PPP.

Very few Indians supported the PNC because the PNC had a policy of exclusion.

quote:

Originally posted by baseman:

At least the PPP has done things for the poeple who supported them.

Done for Guyana and Guyanese .. and like other countries, supporters of a governing party also obtain benefits.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by DND:

Lets not be naive. You select people who are loyal to your policy. .

So the PNC was correct then to exclude Indians? After all how many Indians supported the PNC?

This speaks volumes of your racialistic persona. To Indians, you could be like Hitler to the Jews.

quote:

Originally posted by DND:
]

The PNC was a lot more extreme. They started to exclude at the lowest echelons of the civil service ladder. That does not happen under the PPP Government. The civil service is still predominantly Afro-Guyanese, even though the PPP has been in power since 1992. That says quite a bit about the PPP.

Very few Indians supported the PNC because the PNC had a policy of exclusion.

DND you need to lewrn the history of Guyana.

Blacks dominated the lower ranks of the civilm service since the mid 19th century. When your ancestors arrived in Guyana the immigration officials who met them were blacks. Blacks attained upward mobility in the civil service after WWII. Indeed the wail of the PPP in the 1960s was that blacks controlled the civil service.

Burnham inherited a majority black civil service. He filled the top echelons mainly with blacks. The PPP does the same today mainly with Indians. If one were to itemize whther there were more Indos with clout under Burnham or blacks with clout under Jagdeo Burnham, wins hands down,

Luncheon is unable to name blacks who head govt entities.

Very few blacks upport the PPP because the PPP EXCLUDES them, except in low and mid level jobs. At the tables where decsions are being made veruy few blacks are present, and most of those who are are forced to keep quiet.

So you might say that the PPP has a majority black civil service. So did the British. As with the British, under the PPP the role of blacks is to do what they are told to do without question.

quote:

Originally posted by Mitwah:

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by DND:

Lets not be naive. You select people who are loyal to your policy. .

So the PNC was correct then to exclude Indians? After all how many Indians supported the PNC?

This speaks volumes of your racialistic persona. To Indians, you could be like Hitler to the Jews.

So I see that for me to speak out aginat PPP racism against blacks is racist.

Well I guess we can expect the AFC, packed as it seems to be with ROAR supporters, will continue the same.

Luncheon unaware of yard-stick for diplomatic nominees; explains King Kong political folklore
Written by Denis Scott Chabrol Tuesday, 20 September 2011 18:31

Head of the Presidential Secretariat, Dr. Roger Luncheon on Tuesday said he was unaware of the yard-stick being used to select nominees for Guyanese envoys abroad and he admitted that several named ambassadors do not have any diplomatic experience. The revelations were made when he was cross-examined by Defence Attorney, Nigel Hughes in High Court libel case between President Bharrat Jagdeo and newspaper columnist, Freddie Kissoon.
The lawyer set out to justify Kissoon’s assertion in one of his Kaieteur News newspaper columns that Jagdeo is an ideological racist, a description that prompted Jagdeo to seek GUY$10 million in damages for libel. The defence on Tuesday sought to prove that the sale of land and state property, ambassadorial appointments and the provision of sports facilities discriminated against African Guyanese.

Luncheon, who is also Cabinet Secretary, said he was unaware of any criteria that qualifies or is used to select or qualify nominees to fill the posts of Ambassadors and High Commissioners. He, however, said that the selection process was not random and was only invoked when there was need to fill vacant posts for ambassadors and high commissioners. When questioned about individual ambassadors, Luncheon told the court being presided over by Justice Brassington Reynolds that Guyana’s Ambassador to Cuba, Mitra Devi Ali; Ambassador to Brazil, Kellawan Lall; High Commissioner to India, Ronald Gajraj and High Commissioner to Canada, Harry Narine Nawbatt possessed no diplomatic experience.

While uncertain about the diplomatic experience of Guyana’s High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, Laleshawar Singh, he was clear that Guyana’s Ambassador to China, Professor David Dabydeen; Guyana’s Ambassador to Caricom and Director General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Elisabeth Harper and the Ambassador to Suriname, Merlin Udho possessed diplomatic experience. Luncheon deemed as “totally inaccurate” a suggestion by Hughes that then Guyana Ambassador to Brazil, Cheryl Miles was recalled home immediately and invited to retire after Brazil had nominated her to be Secretary General of the Amazonian Cooperation Treaty Organisation (ACTO). He explained that Miles’ term ended after she retired earlier from public service and returned home. The Head of the Presidential Secretariat said that he was unaware of Miles’ nomination for ACTO’s Secretary Generalship by the majority of members of that organisation. He added that he was “totally unaware” that Miles did not become Secretary General was because the Guyana government, headed by President Jagdeo, had refused to support the nomination.

Sale of State Properties

Luncheon, who is also a board member of the National Industrial and Commercial Investments Limited (NICIL), was asked whether based on several Gazetted sale and transfer of government lands shown to him that less than half a percent of 158.182 acres of lands were transferred to a person of African Guyanese. He replied, saying that he could not confirm that the lands were sold and transferred during Jagdeo’s term and he was unsure about the precise portion of .1 percent. Luncheon, at Hughes request, singled out Herdmanston Lodge as a single piece of commercial property in Georgetown that was sold to person of African Guyanese - Michael George - during Jagdeo’s presidency.

The lands include .5 acres to Roraima Airways; 4.7 acres to the British Virgin Islands-based Scady Corporation; .5366 acres; .3152 acres and .7846 acres sold to Precision Woodworking; 103.88 acres at Liliendaal to National Hardware; .195 08 acres to Stanford Solomon; 18.871 acres at Plantation Ruimveldt to Queens Atlantic Inc wholly owned by Ranjisighi Ramroop; 6.4917 acres at Plantation Ruimveldt to John Fernandes Limited ;3.017 acres at Public Lands, Eve Leary to Guyana Bank for Trade and Industry and .7892 acres to Shaheed and Zabeeda Feroze.

Earlier, the Plaintiff’s lawyer,Anil Nandlall had objected to Hughes line of questioning on the grounds that no one knows the racial composition of the ownership of the named companies in the absence of the information before the court. The judge, nevertheless, allowed the question on grounds that Luncheon could agree, deny or don’t know. The judge earlier upheld an objection by Nandlall that Luncheon should not be allowed to say whether he knew who were the principal associates of the companies, a task the lawyer said should be for an official of the Deeds Registry. “It is getting warm and I would ask that we conduct ourselves befitting of the manner of this court,” Judge Reynolds said in asking Hughes and Nandlall to be calm.

The location of a athletics track at Leonora, a swimming pool at Liliendaal and several Diagnostic Health Centres at Leonora, Suddie, Diamond and Mahaicony - predominantly East Indian communities were also raised by Hughes. Luncheon noted that a health facility was built two years ago at East Lapenitence with substantial assistance from the United States military and local labour.

Who was King Kong?

The June 28, 2010 article titled ‘King Kong sent his goons to disrupt the Conference’- a reference to the near break-up of the 2010 annual historical conference. The Head of the Presidential Secretariat, under cross examination by Hughes, said he had not read any literature or seen any movie featuring King Kong. However, he had became aware of the political folklore characterization of then Executive President, Forbes Burnham as a King Kong who was strong and powerful but not necessarily intelligent. Luncheon said he would not accept that King Kong represented an African man but he conceded that Burnham was a Black man. He recalled that Burnham was described in opposition literature as King Kong while the Peoples Progressive Party, Working Peoples Alliance (WPA) and United Force were in the opposition.

Widely believed to be the most covered libel case in Guyanese history by the media, Tuesday's session saw a rare turnout by a large section of the state media including TV cameramen.Those present included the Editor in Chief of the National Communications Network (NCN), Michael Gordon; NCN's Programme Manager, Martin Goolsarran; NCN reporter, Paul Moore, the Editor-in-Chief of the Government Information Agency, Shanta Goberdhan and several of her subordinates.

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Freddie vs Jagdeo libel case…’King Kong’ was not Afro-Guyanese – Luncheon …”but that was opposition’s label for Burnham”
SEPTEMBER 21, 2011 | BY KNEWS | FILED UNDER NEWS

The High Court yesterday heard how ‘King Kong’ was a term used widely in the Guyanese political realm for describing the late President Forbes Burnham. This revelation came as the libel case brought against Kaieteur News columnist Freddie Kissoon, the newspaper’s publisher and its editor-in-chief, continued yesterday before Justice Brassington Reynolds. President Jagdeo is suing for $10 million, claiming that a column entitled “King Kong sent his goons to disrupt the conference” pointed to Jagdeo as ‘King Kong’. The President has claimed that the article suggests that he is a racist and that “by extension, the State and Government of Guyana, practice racism as an ideology, dogma, philosophy and policy.”

Head of the Presidential Secretariat Dr Roger Luncheon yesterday continued being cross examined by attorney at law Nigel Hughes. The lawyer asked the witness if he had ever seen the movie ‘King Kong’, or read the book ‘King Kong’ or even saw the comic ‘King Kong’. Luncheon answered in the negative to all three of the questions. The witness was then asked if ‘King Kong’ was ever in Guyana. To this Luncheon said yes, and said that it was Guyanese political folklore. He was then asked when was the first time he had heard such folklore.


Dr. Roger Luncheon

Luncheon told the court that he had heard the folklore back in the 1980s, and it was made in reference to then president Forbes Burnham. The lawyer then queried whether the witness would conclude that ‘King Kong’ was a black man or an Afro-Guyanese. Luncheon’s reaction was that while the folklore was attributed to Burnham, he would not conclude that ‘King Kong’ was an Afro–Guyanese. Hughes then asked the witness about who he thought authorized the ‘King Kong’ folklore.

Luncheon then responded that he suspected that it was the opposition that started it. Hughes further questioned the witness about the fact if they were any books or writings on the Guyanese Folklore ‘King Kong’. Luncheon responded that there were handouts and brochures about ‘King Kong’. He was then asked if in the Guyanese Folklore of ‘King Kong’ if he was supposed to be strong, to which the witness said he suppose he was strong. Luncheon said that as far as he knew Burnham was not a racist, when questioned by Hughes.

Moreover Luncheon was questioned about the transfer of 11 state own entities through the National Industrial and Commercial Investments Limited (NICIL) to third party owners. The court heard yesterday that over 158.182 acres of prime state-owned land within Georgetown was given out, and far less than one acre (.0128) was given to an individual of African descent, namely Stanford Solomon. Nandalall objected to the line of questioning and stated that in his evidence in chief his client was not discriminatory nor was his government.

Luncheon was then asked if NICIL was the government body that transferred all government properties, and he answered in the affirmative. He was then asked by Hughes if he was part of the board of NICIL, to which he answered yes. He was further asked if NICIL was guided by government polices and again the cabinet secretary answered in the positive. Luncheon sought to explain that the policies specifically deal with NICIL, and the disposal of state assets is done by a parliamentary framework document which was approved in parliament before the plaintiff (President Jagdeo) was in office.
Luncheon was asked when he first went on the NICIL board, during the time the plaintiff was in office, if they had transferred about 160 acres of government property. The witness said he could not confirm that.

The lawyer then went on to show the witness a copy of gazetted documents, so he could help confirm his questions. This prompted lawyer for the plaintiff, Anil Nandlall, to make an objection. The objection was, however, overruled by the judge. The court was then told that a foreign company in the British Virgin Islands had 4.7 acres of land transferred to its name. The company goes by the name of Scady Business Corporation at PO Box 3321 Broke Chambers Road Town British Virgin Islands, Tortola, BVI. Queens Atlantic through NICIL got 18.87 acres, and then National Hardware Limited got 103.88 acres. Hughes sought to question Luncheon about if he could agree with the fact that the company (Scady Business Corporation) was external. The witness was then invited to look at a certified copy from the Deeds Registry. Attorney Nandlall objected and stated that his client, who is not versed in law, could not answer the question.

Hughes then asked the witness on whether he could agree that Linden is mostly populated by Afro-Guyanese. Luncheon said that he was aware of this. The witness was then asked if he was aware that NICIL had transferred 1.571 acres of land in Linden to the People’s Progressive Party. He answered in the affirmative. The lawyer then sought to question the witness about his knowledge regarding any other political party who was given that benefit. Luncheon said he had no such recollection.

Luncheon was questioned about Guyana’s Ambassador to Brazil Cheryl Miles, who according to Hughes, failed to get a high ranking position at the Amazon Cooperation Treaty Organization. Luncheon was asked if he was aware that the woman was a Guyana Scholar. Further he was questioned about his knowledge of Miles being nominated and recommended for the Secretary-General position in the prestigious organisation. It was put to him that the government refused to recommend her nomination. With respect to that, Luncheon said that he was totally unaware of the issue. He explained that her term as ambassador ended and she returned home.

Luncheon was then asked if there was any written condition when it comes to appointing ambassadors. He said that most countries, after accepting the person, they are ambassadors, but prior to that they are just nominees. Luncheon when grilled further said that he was not aware of the criteria for appointing nominees. He was then asked if the selection was random, Luncheon said that it was not so. The witness was then asked to identify an ambassador who had any diplomatic experience. An objection was put forward by the plaintiff’s lawyer, asking for the questions to be disallowed.

Luncheon was asked if former Ministers Kellawan Lall, Ronald Gajraj and Harry Narine Nawbatt among others had any diplomatic experience. The witness said they did not. Out of the list that was disclosed to the court only Professor David Dabydeen, Elizabeth Harper and the Ambassador to Suriname had diplomatic experience. The afternoon session for the case finished shortly after 16:00hrs yesterday. The matter is to continue today in the High Court.

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What does 'King Kong' has to do with jagdeo?

quote:

Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
What does 'King Kong' has to do with jagdeo?

nothing king kong too honest to be compare with bar--rat

Poor Luncheon he cant say the hair comb test (if the comb doesnt slip out one is disqualified) is used to select ambassadors so he says he doesnt know. Yeah right, the main behind the scenes man in the PPP doesnt know.

Luncheon blank on selection process for ambassadors - admits some have no experience
By ZOISA FRASER | LOCAL | WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, 2011

Head of the Presidential Secretariat Dr Roger Luncheon yesterday testified that he was unaware of the criteria used to identify and select nominees for ambassadorial postings, and he admitted that some had no prior diplomatic experience. He was at the time under cross-examination in the ongoing hearing in the $10 million libel case brought by President Bharrat Jagdeo against Kaieteur News columnist Freddie Kissoon, Kaie-teur News Editor Adam Harris and the National Media and Publishing Company Ltd, the newspaper’s publisher.

When Luncheon was asked by defence counsel Nigel Hughes whether Ambassadors and High Commissioners were selected randomly, Jagdeo attorney Anil Nandlall objected. But Justice Brassington Reynolds overruled him, saying that it was a follow-up question that was “put-able.” During the more than two hours of cross-examination Luncheon faced, there were repeated objections by Nandlall, who submitted that most of the questions being asked were not only irrelevant but were unfair.


Dr Roger Luncheon

Luncheon disclosed that the selection process was not random, while adding that it was only invoked when there is need to fill the posts that are vacant. He further noted that ambassadors are accepted by the receiving countries. Nandlall objected to Hughes’ attempt to have Luncheon identify those without prior diplomatic experience, but this was also overruled by the judge, who said he saw the relevance. As a result, Luncheon admitted that Ambassador to Cuba Mitra Devi Alli, Ambassador to Brazil Kellawan Lall, Ambassador to India Ronald Gajraj and Harry Narine Nawbatt, the High Commis-sioner to Canada, had no prior diplomatic experience. He said Ambassador to Suriname Merlin Udho, Ambassador to China David Dabydeen and Ambassador to Caricom Elisabeth Harper had diplomatic experience prior to their postings. He also acknowledged that Harper, who is Director General of Foreign Affairs Ministry, had significant diplomatic experience when compared with the others.

Meanwhile, Luncheon dismissed the suggestion by Hughes that former Ambassa-dor to Brazil Cheryl Miles was recalled after she was nominated for the post of secretary general of the Amazonian Cooperation Treaty Organization (ACTO). Luncheon said he was unaware that Miles, a Guyana scholar, was nominated/recommended for the post and that he was “totally unaware” that she was not appointed because there was no support from the president. “That is totally inaccurate. I do have a recollection of her recall. Her term had ended,” he said, while adding that like with all ambassadors whose terms have ended, she returned home.

‘Primary beneficiaries’

The libel suit was prompted by a June 28, 2010 Kissoon article titled, ‘King Kong sent his goons to disrupt the conference’, and the defence is seeking to justify its portrayal of Jagdeo as an ideological racist who heads a government that practises racism. In this vein, during yesterday’s cross-examination, Luncheon was asked about the country’s athletic facilities and diagnostic centre, which he acknowledged have been and are to be constructed in areas populated predominantly by Indian Guyanese. He said the new site for the national athletic track is to be situated at Leonora, while the new public swimming pool is located at Lilendaal, George-town. However, he did not agree with Hughes’ assertion that the primary beneficiaries of these facilities were persons of African descent.

Additionally, Luncheon also noted that an Ophthal-mology Centre is located at Port Mourant, Berbice, while diagnostic health centres were built at Suddie, on the Essequibo Coast, Leonora on the West Coast Demerara, at Diamond, on the East Bank Demerara and Mahaicony, on the East Coast, all of which are pre-dominantly Indian Guyanese inhabited areas. He said that the centres were constructed during Jagdeo’s term. He added that one was constructed in the La Penitence area within the last two years, with major funding from the American military.

Luncheon was also questioned about the National Industrial and Commercial Investment Ltd (NICIL), which is the vendor/entity that enters into agreements to sell or transfer government property within the environs of the capital city of Georgetown, of which he is a member of the board. Luncheon, who noted that the sale of government transported property may be carried out by agents other than NICIL, was shown several copies of the Official Gazette relating to the vesting of properties held by NICIL to other parties. He identified the documents, which were later tendered.

The lands identified were .5 acres to Roraima Airways Limited; 4.7 acres to Scady Business Corporation, a Tortola, BVI-based company; three plots – .5366 acres, .3152 and .7846 acres to Precision Woodworking, Luncheon said was a company owned by the Bulkan family; 103.88 acres at Plantation Liliendaal/Pattensen to National Hardware; .195 acres at Century Palm Gar-dens, Durban Backlands to Standford Solomon; 18.71 acres located at Plantation Ruimveldt to Queens Atlantic Investment Inc; .7892 acres at Plantation Ruimveldt to Shaheed and Zameeda Feroze; 6.491 acres at Planta-tion Ruimveldt to John Fernandes and 3.01 acres of public lands at Eve Leary to GBTI.

When Luncheon was asked if the lands transferred by NICIL during Jagdeo’s term accumulated to in excess of 150 acres of prime commercial land and whether less than half of a percent was transferred to an African owned entity, Nandlall objected. According to Nandlall it would be unfair to the witness to answer the questions as nothing was produced showing the racial composition of the ownership of the companies mentioned. The judge overruled the objection, saying that he believed the witness was competent enough to answer the questions and could either agree, deny or say he did not know. At one point, tempers flared and the judge urged that there be calmness in the courtroom.

Luncheon, later responding to the questions, said that he could not confirm what Hughes was saying to be the truth. When asked to identify a piece of commercial property in Georgetown, other than Standford Solomon’s that was transferred to a person of African Guyanese descent, he singled out Herdmanston Lodge on Lamaha Street, adding that it was sold to a “Mr George.”

‘King Kong’

Meanwhile, Luncheon said ‘King Kong’ was the nickname given to late president Forbes Burnham by the then opposition. Luncheon, who said he had never seen the movie King Kong, read the book or seen the comic strip, explained that he knew of the term as part of Guyana’s political folklore. Asked who ‘King Kong’ was in Guyana’s political folklore, Luncheon said that on his return to Guyana in 1980, “I was made to understand that it was a reference to the executive president Forbes Burnham.” He said he would not accept that it is a term associated with persons of African descent, while adding that he suspected that it was the opposition that authored the ‘King Kong’ description. He could not say which one of the opposition parties, which included the PPP, the WPA and TUF at the time.

According to Luncheon, the information available at the time was that the opposition had characterised Burnham as ‘King Kong’ because of his behaviour. He pointed out that he knew there was some sort of story behind the term, while adding that information on this folklore was contained in leaflets and handouts circulated outside of public meetings. He said that he was aware of documentation regarding the term. Luncheon added that in the Guyanese folklore, ‘King Kong’ was portrayed as powerful and strong and based on his personal opinion, it was not necessarily associated with intelligence. He could not recall racism being one of the attributes associated with the term. He said too that he did not recognise Burnham as a racist.

Kissoon and Harris were yesterday present for the proceedings. The hearing will continue today.

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