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FM
Former Member

Gov’t launches legal battle over Parliamentary Committee - Granger, Trotman named in court papers

 
March 8, 2012 | By | Filed Under News 

Source - Kaieteur News

 

Attorney General Anil Nandlall

 

The government yesterday announced that it was heading to the constitutional court to challenge the setting up of the Parliamentary Committee of Selection on which it was relegated to minority membership following the November 28 polls.


The government’s chief spokesman, Dr Roger Luncheon, said the government is seeking to achieve the same objective by way of a motion in the National Assembly, but that is not likely to find favour, since the opposition controls Parliament and have argued that there is nothing unconstitutional about the setting up of the committee.

 

Opposition Leader David Granger


The government is looking to fight the battle wherever it can in its attempts to quash the formation of the committee which gives the governing party – the PPP – and the opposition coalition -APNU – four members each. The other opposition party, the AFC holds a crucial one seat and could swing on either side.


In court documents filed yesterday by Attorney General Anil Nandlall, the government is seeking a declaration that the composition of the Committee of Selection “is in violation of the principle of proportionality as contemplated by Articles 60 and 160, of the Constitution and the provisions of the Elections Laws (Amendment) Act No.15 of 2000 and accordingly, unconstitutional, unlawful, null, void and of no effect.”


Further, the government wants the court to issue an order setting aside, revoking, cancelling or annulling the composition of the said Committee of Selection on the ground that it is violative of Articles 60 and 160 of the Constitution of Guyana and in breach of the provisions of the Election Laws (Amendment) Act No. 15 of 2000.


Opposition Leader David Granger and Speaker of the National Assembly, Raphael Trotman, are named as respondents in the case.


In court documents, Nandlall argued that the composition of the Committee of Selection is violative of the principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution since in this configuration, the PPP/C with 32 seats has the same representation in the  Committee with APNU which only secured 26 seats.

 

Speaker Raphael Trotman

 

AFC Parliamentarian Moses Nagamootoo said that unless it is shown that the decision of the majority of the members of the Parliament violated a law, “then I may think that the Government would have its merry way in court.”


“This country is suffering, because you have a minority masquerading as a majority, and it has to live up to the reality of the times. It can no longer impose its will on the Guyanese people by tic tac and by arbitrary methods and authoritarian methods. And Dr. Luncheon must know that this side of the table is not deficient with regard to legal and juristic minds,” Nagamootoo stated.


On February 10, the opposition parties had used their majority vote in the National Assembly to revise the composition of the committee, which is responsible for appointing all of the other Parliamentary committees. The opposition wants the formation of the other committees to follow the same membership composition of the umbrella Committee of Selection.


The government is insisting that since it holds the single largest bloc of votes in the National Assembly, it should be entitled to five seats on the committee, but the combined opposition parties disagree and are sticking to their position.


The current committee is made up of PPP members Samuel Hinds, Dr Leslie Ramsammy, Indranie Chandarpal and Gail Teixeira, while APNU members are Amna Ally, Volda Lawrence, George Norton and Joseph Harmon. The AFC is represented by Khemraj Ramjattan.


The opposition has argued that the Committee of Selection complied with every section of the Standing Orders of the Parliament which is in consonance with the Constitution of Guyana.


Standing Order 94 (1) states: “Every select committee shall be constituted as to ensure, as far as possible, that the balance of parties in the Assembly is reflected in the committee.”

 

The opposition has called on the Speaker of the National Assembly, Raphael Trotman, who happens to be the Chairman of the Committee of Selection, to execute his function “without fear or favour, affection or ill will.”


The Opposition has tabled three motions in parliament to address the number of members in the Parliamentary Management Committee from 10 members to 9 members; to adjust the sectoral committees to reflect the seats allocated to political parties in the National Assembly and to provide non-voting rights for non-elected members of the National Assembly or any committee.

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In court documents, Nandlall argued that the composition of the Committee of Selection is violative of the principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution since in this configuration, the PPP/C with 32 seats has the same representation in the  Committee with APNU which only secured 26 seats.

 

Gov’t launches legal battle over Parliamentary Committee - Granger, Trotman named in court papers

 
March 8, 2012 | By | Filed Under News 

Source - Kaieteur News

Seat allocation should be ..

 

50% == PPP/C

40% == PNC/APNU

10% == AFC

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
 

Seat allocation should be ..

 

50% == PPP/C

40% == PNC/APNU

10% == AFC

 PPP ....32 seats = 100/65 X 32 = 49.23%Representation  on Select  Committee 

APNU...26 Seats = 100/65 X 26 = 39.99 %         "             "     "        " 

AFC..... 7  Seats = 100/65 x 7  =   10.77%        "             "     "        "

Combined  Opposition 36.99 + 10.77 = 51.77%  "             "     "        "

 

Any way  you sliced & diced it,  the  Combined Opposition with  51.8% of    VS  PPP  48.2%  Popular votes  or  Com OPP  51.77 %  VS PPP  49.23 % in  Parliamentary Representation would/ should  be ahead in  the  various  committee.

FM

Emile Mervin says in SN:

 

Permit me to deconstruct the stupidity of your ‘excellent move’ compliment to the Attorney General’s ill-advised moved.  Your AG is saying that because the PPP gained more popular votes than either APNU or AFC, separately, the PPP should get more seats on parliamentary committees proportionate to its votes received. The problem for him here is two-fold: Legal and Conventional.
 
Legally, the court can rule only based on existing pertinent law or case precedent, and the AG’s argument is not grounded on any existing law or case precedent, whether in Guyana, the Caribbean, the Commonwealth or any country that practices democracy.
 
Besides the absence of any pertinent law or case precedent, the court cannot undo the will of the people or subvert the democratic process that produced a one-seat parliamentary majority for the opposition simply because the AG and his ilk at Freedom House and Office of the President are delusional enough to ask the court to do so.
 
Conventionally, when a party has more votes than others in a national election but not enough to form either the executive branch of government or control the legislative branch of government, it has an option of coalescing with other parties to do so. Example, in 1964, the PPP won the plurality of votes to form the government, but the PNC and UF’s combined votes were greater than the PPP’s so we had the PNC-TUF coalition government that ousted the PPP from power.
 

If you ask me, (and you didn’t), the PPP is in very, very serious trouble with all the Jagdeo era corruption now getting skinned up and I am of the opinion that while Ramotar wants to get on with the business of government, there are elements in the PPP who are fearful of probes, inquiries and possible criminal indictments, so there is a push back from these elements. Ramotar is caught between a rock (the law) and a hard place (corrupt PPP elements), with APNU and the AFC serving as mechanical clamps or vices applying the pressure. This move to court by your AG is just an attempt at an escape route! Watch him lose this one, too!

Mitwah
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
In court documents, Nandlall argued that the composition of the Committee of Selection is violative of the principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution since in this configuration, the PPP/C with 32 seats has the same representation in the  Committee with APNU which only secured 26 seats.

 

Gov’t launches legal battle over Parliamentary Committee - Granger, Trotman named in court papers

 
March 8, 2012 | By | Filed Under News 

Source - Kaieteur News

Seat allocation should be ..

 

50% == PPP/C

40% == PNC/APNU

10% == AFC

DG it seems like Math is not your forte. Perhaps the Rev can give you some serious math lessons in percentages.

 

The combined opposition is in the majority even though it is by only one seat; they have the majority.  So Mr. D_G how could that equate to the PPP  having control of  50% of the seats on any committee?

Mitwah
Originally Posted by Mara:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
 

Seat allocation should be ..

 

50% == PPP/C

40% == PNC/APNU

10% == AFC

PPP ....32 seats = 100/65 X 32 = 49.23%Representation  on Select Committee 

APNU...26 Seats = 100/65 X 26 = 39.99 %

AFC..... 7  Seats = 100/65 x 7  =   10.77%

Combined  Opposition 36.99 + 10.77 = 51.77%

 

Any way  you sliced & diced it,  the  Combined Opposition with  51.8% of    VS  PPP  48.2%  Popular votes  or  Com OPP  51.77 %  VS PPP  49.23 % in  Parliamentary Representation would/ should  be ahead in  the  various  committee.

Seats is based on the prcentage of votes allocated to each political party.

 

50% == PPP/C

40% == PNC/APNU

10% == AFC

 

Any way it is viewed, the PPP/C's representation on committees equal to 50% of the seats.

FM
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
 

 

Any way it is viewed, the PPP/C's representation on committees equal to 50% of the seats.

DG,

 

What  kind of  a fuzzy  math is  that? Since when  does 48.62% of  popular  vote is  greater  than  40.83% + 10.33% ( 51.16 %)?

 

I  believe anyone with  logical  and  deductive  reasoning would  agree that  a  10  man Committee Of  Selection as  proposed by the PPP  ( PPP(5) APNU(4)  AFC (1) ) is  a  recipe for  gridlock,  disaster  and  having nothing  accomplished.  Hence  failure  of the 10th Parliament. Politically,  it  may  be  a clever and strategic  move  to shift  blame   to  the  opposition  for  this  failure in  an   election  to  follow.  They  would  like  to  continue  to hammer  the  point  that a  vote  for  the  AFC  is in fact  a  vote  for the   irredeemable APNU/ PNC. Hopefully the  AFC  can solidify  their  base and  continue to  make inroads  in  both  ethnic  camps  and deprive  both  of  these  fossilized and  discredited  relics  from  an  absolute  majority.  The  day   voters  are weaned from  their ethnic  teat,  would be doomsday  for these  dinosaurs.

 

 For your  benefit  here  is a summary  of  the  Break down  of  the  popular  votes:

 

 

Votes%Seats
NationalRegionalΣ+/–
People's Progressive Party–Civic166,34048.62191332–4
A Partnership for National Unity
<small>(People's National Congress–Reform/Guyana Action Party/National Front Alliance/Working People's Alliance</small>
139,67840.83161026+3
Alliance for Change35,33310.33527+2
FM

If the PPP are serious about attaining a majority they would call for a snap elections. I suspect these are all delay tactics, maybe they realize that their dominance is over due to the many revelations about corruption and mismanagement. 

FM
Originally Posted by Mara:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

Any way it is viewed, the PPP/C's representation on committees equal to 50% of the seats.

DG,

 

What kind of a fuzzy math is that?


Since when does 48.62% of popular vote is greater than 40.83% + 10.33% ( 51.16 %)?

 

For your benefit here is a summary of the Break down of the popular votes:

 

Votes%Seats
NationalRegionalΣ+/–
People's Progressive Party–Civic166,34048.62191332–4
A Partnership for National Unity
<small>(People's National Congress–Reform/Guyana Action Party/National Front Alliance/Working People's Alliance</small>
139,67840.83161026+3
Alliance for Change35,33310.33527+2

Mara .. quite simple .. take 10 seats.

 

PPP/C = 48.62% == 0.4862 x 10 == 4.862 ==> 5 seats.

APNU =  40.83% == 0.4083 x 10 == 4.083 ==> 4 seats.

AFC ==  10.33% == 0.1033 x 10 == 1.033 ==> 1 seat.

 

Basically the seat-allocation is 50% for the PPP/C and 50% for the combined APNU and AFC.

FM

8-March-2012

 

"The principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution" (Demwaves)
Written by Guest Columnist, Mr. Nigel Hughes

 

I read with some bemusement of the government, peopled exclusively by PPP/C members and supporters, seeking the intervention of the Courts on the basis that the "Composition of the Committee of selection is violative of the principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution".

Less than six months ago when the same government was in office, albeit under a different parliamentary configuration, the principle of proportionality seemed to have eluded the consideration of the government on the issue of distribution of the state's resources , building of capacity in communities not considered traditional supporters of the government, transfer of state assets, appointment of ambassadors, allocation of state resources, removal of the subvention to the Critchlow Labour College and the list goes on. Now still in office but subject only to potential scrutiny with consequences, the Government cries foul and raises the issue of proportionality.

Well let us walk the talk as a nation, let us begin to discuss the proportional distribution of executive power, proportional distribution of the State's resources, proportional participation in the decision making process from top to bottom, the proportional and equitable building of capacity in all communities, the holding of local government elections throughout the country, review of previous decisions which resulted in the curious distribution of the state's resources particularly sea defence and road contracts, house lot distribution and procurement.

In the previous dispensation where 51% of the votes was the equivalent of and guaranteed 100 % of the power, there was deafening silence on the "principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution."

Now because that those of us with 48% are not assured 100 per cent of the power, the minority or the majority, depending on your perspective, must cooperate with, or at least not tyrannize the minority.

The majoritarian system which is envisaged and embodied by the current constitution does not create winners who share power or want to share power. Politics becomes the battle for total victory rather than a method of government open to all significant groups.

With the Executive without absolute power in the parliament crying proportionality, perhaps the time has come for the Republic to revisit its constitutional structures with some urgency so all her citizens will be guaranteed participation and representation in the Government.

"Unchartered territory" as the fears expressed by the Minister of Finance may be, we should heed the words of that great Guyanese patriot A. R. F. Webber when he urged us a century ago "Let us look beyond the immediate horizon. Away from the cringing fear which bids us shiver. The night must pass. Panic helps nobody. Let us greet the unseen with cheer."

FM

D_G .. it is not 10 seats but 9.

 

PPP/C = 48.62% == 0.4862 x 9 == 4.3758 ==> 4 seats.

APNU =  40.83% == 0.4083 x 9 == 3.6747 ==> 4 seats.

AFC ==  10.33% == 0.1033 x 9 == 0.9297 ==> 1 seat.

 

Basically the seat-allocation is 49% for the PPP/C and 51% for the combined APNU and AFC.

Mitwah
Last edited by Mitwah
Originally Posted by Gerhard Ramsaroop:

8-March-2012

 

"The principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution" (Demwaves)
Written by Guest Columnist, Mr. Nigel Hughes

 

I read with some bemusement of the government, peopled exclusively by PPP/C members and supporters, seeking the intervention of the Courts on the basis that the "Composition of the Committee of selection is violative of the principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution".



Less than six months ago when the same government was in office, albeit under a different parliamentary configuration, the principle of proportionality seemed to have eluded the consideration of the government on the issue of distribution of the state's resources , building of capacity in communities not considered traditional supporters of the government, transfer of state assets, appointment of ambassadors, allocation of state resources, removal of the subvention to the Critchlow Labour College and the list goes on. Now still in office but subject only to potential scrutiny with consequences, the Government cries foul and raises the issue of proportionality.



Well let us walk the talk as a nation, let us begin to discuss the proportional distribution of executive power, proportional distribution of the State's resources, proportional participation in the decision making process from top to bottom, the proportional and equitable building of capacity in all communities, the holding of local government elections throughout the country, review of previous decisions which resulted in the curious distribution of the state's resources particularly sea defence and road contracts, house lot distribution and procurement.



In the previous dispensation where 51% of the votes was the equivalent of and guaranteed 100 % of the power, there was deafening silence on the "principle of proportionality as contemplated by the Constitution."



Now because that those of us with 48% are not assured 100 per cent of the power, the minority or the majority, depending on your perspective, must cooperate with, or at least not tyrannize the minority.



The majoritarian system which is envisaged and embodied by the current constitution does not create winners who share power or want to share power. Politics becomes the battle for total victory rather than a method of government open to all significant groups.



With the Executive without absolute power in the parliament crying proportionality, perhaps the time has come for the Republic to revisit its constitutional structures with some urgency so all her citizens will be guaranteed participation and representation in the Government.



"Unchartered territory" as the fears expressed by the Minister of Finance may be, we should heed the words of that great Guyanese patriot A. R. F. Webber when he urged us a century ago "Let us look beyond the immediate horizon. Away from the cringing fear which bids us shiver. The night must pass. Panic helps nobody. Let us greet the unseen with cheer."

This will turn out to be a storm in a Tea cup.

Mitwah
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by Mara:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:

Any way it is viewed, the PPP/C's representation on committees equal to 50% of the seats.

DG,

 

What kind of a fuzzy math is that?


Since when does 48.62% of popular vote is greater than 40.83% + 10.33% ( 51.16 %)?

 

For your benefit here is a summary of the Break down of the popular votes:

 

Votes%Seats
NationalRegionalΣ+/–
People's Progressive Party–Civic166,34048.62191332–4
A Partnership for National Unity
<small>(People's National Congress–Reform/Guyana Action Party/National Front Alliance/Working People's Alliance</small>
139,67840.83161026+3
Alliance for Change35,33310.33527+2

Mara .. quite simple .. take 10 seats.

 

PPP/C = 48.62% == 0.4862 x 10 == 4.862 ==> 5 seats.

APNU =  40.83% == 0.4083 x 10 == 4.083 ==> 4 seats.

AFC ==  10.33% == 0.1033 x 10 == 1.033 ==> 1 seat.

 

Basically the seat-allocation is 50% for the PPP/C and 50% for the combined APNU and AFC.


Here this picture might be easier for you...

sachin_05

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