which will seek the support of the groups that the Alliance for Change (AFC) has disappointed.

What de rass? Another political party which has a chance of getting maybe 5% of the AFC votes, IF THE 2020 ELECTION IS NOT RIGGED?

GUYANA VOTES ON RACE. There is an uneasy disrespect between Indians and Africans for each other.

I like the idea of a third force  holding the balance of power.

3rd party keeps the other 2 in check.....unless they are made up of old time rejects, then it's waste of time

That’s neither here nor there.  As long as coalition cannot be formed after election, the point is mute.  On the other hand, back in 2011, I told the AFC let’s use our swing to our advantage and work with the PPP.   But them bais preferred to use it against the PPP.   That was a big blunder.   If they did that, the PPP would be in Power and the AFC would have sway.   Amelia would have been a good test case.  BJ wanted it bad and the AFC could have delivered!

Mitwah posted:

I like the idea of a third force  holding the balance of power.

Nagamootoo destroyed the AFC.  He was all about himself!

It was BJ and Rawmouhtar who wanted nothing to do with the AFC. They were the ones who were ready to annihilate them, creating all kinds of unflattering labels and whereas the PNC was having a dialog with them to share the power.

Baseman posted:

Mitwah posted:

I like the idea of a third force  holding the balance of power.

Nagamootoo destroyed the AFC.  He was all about himself!

Which politician in Guyana is not about himself or herself?

Mitwah posted:

I like the idea of a third force  holding the balance of power.

Mits, dat is exactly what the SHAMELESS BLOOD SUCKING NAMAKARAM CRABDAAG TOLD THE GUYANESE PEOPLE!!!

Mitwah posted:

Baseman posted:

Mitwah posted:

I like the idea of a third force  holding the balance of power.

Nagamootoo destroyed the AFC.  He was all about himself!

Which politician in Guyana is not about himself or herself?

Agreed. However, this does not give politicians the right to ignore the plights of its citizens. What happens if all the citizens refuse to work and pay taxes? Would there be politicians?

Mitwah posted:

It was BJ and Rawmouhtar who wanted nothing to do with the AFC. They were the ones who were ready to annihilate them, creating all kinds of unflattering labels and whereas the PNC was having a dialog with them to share the power.

Ramotar was more flexible. Believe me, when BJ saw the only path for Amelia was thru the AFC, he would have played ball!!  It’s all political brinkmanship!   BJ is an obstinate mule, but he wanted Amelia!

skeldon_man posted:

Mitwah posted:

Baseman posted:

Mitwah posted:

I like the idea of a third force  holding the balance of power.

Nagamootoo destroyed the AFC.  He was all about himself!

Which politician in Guyana is not about himself or herself?

Agreed. However, this does not give politicians the right to ignore the plights of its citizens. What happens if all the citizens refuse to work and pay taxes? Would there be politicians?

I know for a fact, Ramjattan did not want to join the PNC.  But Nagamatoo came on board and worked with the pro PNC faction on the AFC to join up with the PNC!  Ramjattan wanted what baseman wanted, remain an independent swing!

Baseman posted:

  As long as coalition cannot be formed after election, the point is mute. 

Exactly,that's the root of the problem for true Democracy.

Like Ramkrani may want to lead that party. It's all about the Rank.

Prashad posted:

Like Ramkrani may want to lead that party. It's all about the Rank.

The problem he faced is Nagamatoo delivered votes.  

I agree with Ramkarran, but no old head politicians from either the PNC/PPP/AFC. These parties are disease infested to rule a country. I don't know why Ramkarran didn't lead the way toward a new party. 

Prince, Ramkarran himself is a Dinosaur

Nehru posted:

Prince, Ramkarran himself is a Dinosaur

So, all political party must have crooks and thieves? Lord have mercy. I have done with Guyana. I will stay in Trump America and eat salt and rice. 

Baseman posted:

That’s neither here nor there.  As long as coalition cannot be formed after election, the point is mute.  On the other hand, back in 2011, I told the AFC let’s use our swing to our advantage and work with the PPP.   But them bais preferred to use it against the PPP.   That was a big blunder.   If they did that, the PPP would be in Power and the AFC would have sway.   Amelia would have been a good test case.  BJ wanted it bad and the AFC could have delivered!

Base the Coalition was selected to govern the country.

Maybe AFC with PPP could have influence the ABC countries .

The coalition government don’t give a damn what anyone say about them, they are protected by the Americans . 

It would be 100 plus years before a third party make an impact. It’s all about PPP and PNC in Guyana’s politics. 

In Berbice, only a handful of people hate Jagdeo , no one dare speak ill of him  ... Berbicians  will kill you .. so to speak .

The AFC has betray the trust of the Guyanese millinum. 

From personal experience recently,members of  the coalition don’t trust each other.

A wise, well-bred, famous elder statesman who is from deep political and legal pedigree once said, "Politics in Guyana will always come down to the PNC and the PPP."  He was right - then.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

A wise, well-bred, famous elder statesman who is from deep political and legal pedigree once said, "Politics in Guyana will always come down to the PNC and the PPP."  He was right - then.

BS - the constitution, as it is, ensures the two main parties dominate the political landscape.  This is why neither will try to push for change.   Guyanese are No different from anyone else!

let that change and you will see how quickly the landscape changes!

Dave posted:

Baseman posted:

That’s neither here nor there.  As long as coalition cannot be formed after election, the point is mute.  On the other hand, back in 2011, I told the AFC let’s use our swing to our advantage and work with the PPP.   But them bais preferred to use it against the PPP.   That was a big blunder.   If they did that, the PPP would be in Power and the AFC would have sway.   Amelia would have been a good test case.  BJ wanted it bad and the AFC could have delivered!

Base the Coalition was selected to govern the country.

Maybe AFC with PPP could have influence the ABC countries .

The coalition government don’t give a damn what anyone say about them, they are protected by the Americans . 

It would be 100 plus years before a third party make an impact. It’s all about PPP and PNC in Guyana’s politics. 

In Berbice, only a handful of people hate Jagdeo , no one dare speak ill of him  ... Berbicians  will kill you .. so to speak .

The AFC has betray the trust of the Guyanese millinum. 

From personal experience recently,members of  the coalition don’t trust each other.

Maybe, but quite a few crossed with Nagamatoo knowing it meant PNC power. Yes, coalition members don’t trust each other, one can say same of the PPP!

Baseman posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

A wise, well-bred, famous elder statesman who is from deep political and legal pedigree once said, "Politics in Guyana will always come down to the PNC and the PPP."  He was right - then.

BS - the constitution, as it is, ensures the two main parties dominate the political landscape.  This is why neither will try to push for change.   Guyanese are No different from anyone else!

let that change and you will see how quickly the landscape changes!

The PPP and PNC are afraid of  Electoral Amendments that reflects post Election Alliances.After a few election cycles,both may not exist.

It's a bad idea when PNC/PPP are the two dominant parties in Guyana. The people stuck between the two forces without an alternative choice. They will continue to play the race card and separate the people forever. AFC had a good thing going, but they eat Granger shit too early. We do need a third party to balance the power, but AFC made things worst for a new party to surface and exist without public fears and doubts about their political aims.

Iman plan on goin back to revive the UF. 

Django posted:

Baseman posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

A wise, well-bred, famous elder statesman who is from deep political and legal pedigree once said, "Politics in Guyana will always come down to the PNC and the PPP."  He was right - then.

BS - the constitution, as it is, ensures the two main parties dominate the political landscape.  This is why neither will try to push for change.   Guyanese are No different from anyone else!

let that change and you will see how quickly the landscape changes!

The PPP and PNC are afraid of  Electoral Amendments that reflects post Election Alliances.After a few election cycles,both may not exist.

I wonder who is this “wise well bred”.  There is nothing like that in Guyanese political circles, that why Guyana remains a basket case of zero-sum political games between the PPP and PNC. And to hear these non-thinkers saying it’s the best model.  For who?  I tell you, for them and their cronies!

Wise and well-bred zeros still yield zero.  And that is Guyana’s political landscape! 

Cobra posted:

It's a bad idea when PNC/PPP are the two dominant parties in Guyana. The people stuck between the two forces without an alternative choice. They will continue to play the race card and separate the people forever. AFC had a good thing going, but they eat Granger shit too early. We do need a third party to balance the power, but AFC made things worst for a new party to surface and exist without public fears and doubts about their political aims.

If the AFC had followed what Ramjattan wanted, be the tail that wag the dog, it would have been a more potent force.   But Nagamootoo said he ain’t there for #3.  The old fool did not see the nothing gets done without the AFC regardless who formed the govt.  the afc would be the power broker.  Instead now they are a broken power!

A new political party? To what avail?

Jan.16,2018

Source

Dear Editor,

I refer to the call embedded in the article titled, ‘Guyana needs a new political party –Ramkarran’ (SN, Jan 15).  On the face of it, and as an abstraction, I would readily agree.  I would add a new political party each for youths, for women, or for indigenous peoples.  I think that all of this would throw the power field and apparatus wide open.  But even as I say this, I must ask: to what avail?

There have been oceans of ink spilled to identify, pulverize, scorn, and condemn the divisions, history, and political culture and results in this society.  It is the same story as to who has been exploited in one way or another for generations.  The racial old-timers, racial hardliners, and racial extremists have all been trashed and ridiculed for their Neanderthal mentalities and unreconstructed bigotry.  It is the same bigotry (albeit subtly) that today saturates the political thinking, arena, and pursuits at the local level.  When push comes to shove the moderates and centrists, the progressives and renaissance people all seem to either vanish or find seamless cover within the tribal fold.  This has all devastated, and forever it seems.

This is what has happened time and again.  It is what occurred in May 2015, and was part of the fevered run-up to that fateful date.  The distinctive political disfigurations that have marred the political face, political ideals, and political progress of this nation all followed the tried and trusted patterns, where things then coalesced into the solidity of immovable camps.  With a few bold exceptions, fewer were willing to abandon the racial tent and racial nest.  This included those now stirred nobly into thinking about the formation and arrival of a new party.  And since May 2015, I submit that the racial antagonisms have only become more bitter, and more pronounced.  Again, I ask: to what avail, given this hard immovable context?

Put another way, Guyanese citizens and voters (inclusive of potentially new Guyanese political leaders) did not discard the racial baggage that has always been an integral aspect of their upbringing, alliances, and history.  Great difficulty was found to think independently, to act unilaterally, or to believe powerfully in something else, in something alien to the soggy groggy outlook of the usual Guyanese mind.  So, in the face of a damnable Hobson’s choice, there was no breaking away from the racial quagmire to stand on own, to separate from the old, or to strive for the fresh and new and different.  It was race-based voting, as usual.  It was the comforting clinging to the norms inculcated by heritage, environment, and arguably, self-generated individual prejudices.  Unsurprisingly, things distilled to same ole, same ole, and nothing more.  For the third time, I ask about a new political party: to what avail, in view of this hard immovable context?

While I believe that there are those who are intrepid enough and authentically altruistic enough to venture into the trackless political desert, they are too few, too lonely, and too overawed by the magnitude of what challenges the soul.  Though I am intrigued by the idea of a new political party, I believe that (for all of the above reasons) such would amount to a mere conduit for the perpetuation of that which has emasculated the rugged individuality called for, as well as disemboweled the requisite ethos.  Domestic history has taught that all too easily Guyanese resort to form and to kind.  They are fearful of the unknown; overwhelmed by roots, and that is a part of the unyielding pathos of this scorched land.

None of this is comforting.  And when the political hegemons sit up and take stock of any incoming new threats, they will either gobble them up or subvert them, and ultimately derail them.  I wish I had a more positive position on this well-meaning call.  I can’t; not given ancient and modern Guyanese history.

Yours faithfully,
GHK Lall

Well, I respect his opinion but don’t totally agree.  There is enough not committed to either racial tent to make a difference. The issue, due to the constitution, they get digested by the power in charge.  

I agree with Ramkarran, but he should have included a piece on the hurdles presented by the current constitution!

Base, If Jagdeo had Rule the way Cheddi did, Guyana would have been a great Country with the current Constitution since FAIR, COMPETENT Governing is NOT affected by any Constitution. He was too Powerful to his own detriment!!! I believe he realize his mistake watching and listening to him lately.

Nehru posted:

Base, If Jagdeo had Rule the way Cheddi did, Guyana would have been a great Country with the current Constitution since FAIR, COMPETENT Governing is NOT affected by any Constitution. He was too Powerful to his own detriment!!!I believe he realize his mistake watching and listening to him lately.

Since you are saying the Constitution is accepted,why the challenge to the Presidential two term limit amendment of 2000.

More political parties is not the answer if the system of government is highly vulnerable to corruption and fraud. It is electoral fraud that kept Burnham in power for 21 years and angered the non-African populations to the max. It's a compromised justice system in which 80% of crimes are never solved and for those that are solved lenient sentences are given in addition to controversial presidential pardons of scores. 

Guyana needs to move back to the constituency system. The current Party List System is fundamentally undemocratic and gives Party Leaders maximum powers and creates Dictators.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

More political parties is not the answer if the system of government is highly vulnerable to corruption and fraud. It is electoral fraud that kept Burnham in power for 21 years and angered the non-African populations to the max. It's a compromised justice system in which 80% of crimes are never solved and for those that are solved lenient sentences are given in addition to controversial presidential pardons of scores. 

Listen banna, Burnhan rigged because of Aap and Jhaat!  With the numbers against him, he saw that to be the only way and the US let it be because of Jagan's jackass politics.

As I said earlier, Guyana remains a zero-sum country between the PPP and the PNC.  The ones who pay the price is the average citizen, Afro and Indo alike.  Under the PNC days, as much Afros left as Indians and they suffered as much.  Under the PPP rule, nothing changed, it's the same story.  But the elites in the PNC and the PPP took care of each other very well.  The only difference, who was in power was able to get rich really quick.

For anyone who says this is the best any society can expect under the guise of "democracy", well something must be fundamentally wrong with the notion itself.

Guyanese political psyche is very binary, PPP or PNC, Black or Coolie!  A third party of well meaning politicians will break this mindset and the entire psyche will begin to fray at the edges.  It's not a one cycle process and that's why I believe had the AFC stuck with the real 3rd party model, they would have continued to make inroads and establish itself as a credible political force in Guyana!

Nehru posted:

Base, If Jagdeo had Rule the way Cheddi did, Guyana would have been a great Country with the current Constitution since FAIR, COMPETENT Governing is NOT affected by any Constitution. He was too Powerful to his own detriment!!! I believe he realize his mistake watching and listening to him lately.

Who gives a shit what he says now, he ran an arrogant corrupt shop and he now putting on some guise until he gets back in and then he will continue exactly where he left off.  He and his corrupt cabal inner circle are in lock step.  I speak to people in different parts of Guyana and they all say the same.  But ethnic fear drives them back under the tent, not the love of the cabal!

You cannot run with the hope that you will get a Jagan, Mandela or Gandhi.  This is a once upon a time occurrence.  You need to have the institutional and political controls in place to check and mitigate the drift to dictatorial rule.  You can expect more of the latter than of a Jagan.  Not having that you take the risk of the rise of these corrupt cabals.

I agree there are Corrupt individuals on all sided, as Trump would say BUT the PNC is in your face corruption, violence and intimidation!!  Bharat will never try dat. And I am NOT advocating for him to be President again, NO NO, I think there are many capable individuals in the PPP that can carry the Jagan Torch. However, Jagdeo can be an asset to the Party and Country. THe PNC and the Namakaram CRabdaags will only destroy what is left!!

Nehru posted:

I agree there are Corrupt individuals on all sided, as Trump would say BUT the PNC is in your face corruption, violence and intimidation!!  Bharat will never try dat. And I am NOT advocating for him to be President again, NO NO, I think there are many capable individuals in the PPP that can carry the Jagan Torch. However, Jagdeo can be an asset to the Party and Country. THe PNC and the Namakaram CRabdaags will only destroy what is left!!

The better choice would be from outside the cabal, like a Ramkarran or some one of his stature who remained castaways under Jagdeo!

Nehru posted:

I agree there are Corrupt individuals on all sided, as Trump would say BUT the PNC is in your face corruption, violence and intimidation!!  Bharat will never try dat. And I am NOT advocating for him to be President again, NO NO, I think there are many capable individuals in the PPP that can carry the Jagan Torch. However, Jagdeo can be an asset to the Party and Country. THe PNC and the Namakaram CRabdaags will only destroy what is left!!

Prince posted:

Nehru posted:

Prince, Ramkarran himself is a Dinosaur

So, all political party must have crooks and thieves? Lord have mercy. I have done with Guyana. I will stay in Trump America and eat salt and rice. 

But if you vote for Trump, you will get tennis roll and cheese and a Vimto to wash it down.  So stay put but vote Trump come 2020!  No salt and rice!

Baseman posted:

Nehru posted:

I agree there are Corrupt individuals on all sided, as Trump would say BUT the PNC is in your face corruption, violence and intimidation!!  Bharat will never try dat. And I am NOT advocating for him to be President again, NO NO, I think there are many capable individuals in the PPP that can carry the Jagan Torch. However, Jagdeo can be an asset to the Party and Country. THe PNC and the Namakaram CRabdaags will only destroy what is left!!

The better choice would be from outside the cabal, like a Ramkarran or some one of his stature who remained castaways under Jagdeo!

you looking for the ppp bais in freedum house to lynch you