Have Afro-Guyanese become like Afro-Brazilians?

Come in CARIBJ.  What or Whom do you think is responsible for the plight of Afro_Guyanese and Afro_Brazilians?

Yugi reads Freddy... hmmmmmm!

I thought Freddie said he was not an Indian...

You know Indian is not a race?

Indo Guyanese would never treat Afro Guyanese like that.  Afro Guyanese will always form the bulk of the civil service, the GPF and GDF.  Those who go down the business route will find a supportive Indian population.  Afros should welcome the fact that they share a nation with a hard-working and productive Indian population.  They have little to worry about.

Tell he deh bai, we are the "tanned" brothers of the Caucasian race.

Jagdeo.

But hold on Carib, Granger is now President.

How can he turn around the fortunes ?

APNU knows that it is solely dependent on the Indos in the AFC, how can this situation turn around ?

Can you be more constructive?  Jagdeo did a lot for afro_guyanese.  He gave them a better standard of living, better than the PNC ever gave them. 

OK we see that your extreme bigotry, which you have hidden within recnt years, rears its head, all be it in a more sophisticated form.  But here we are.  Baseman screams "black people lazy and should be grateful that Indians rescued them for a certain starvation".

Yet Indians flock to majority black islands.  Baseman I learned froma Kittitian who told me that even Guyanese, and Jamaican immigrants looking for domestic jobs spurn any thing less than US$4.50/hour.  Local women can find work in the hotels, or the electronic assembly plants, so arent interested in domestic jobs.

Now tell me how many domestics in Guyana earn US$4/hour PLUS a contribution to NIS?

Yet black people should be grateful to live in Guyana!

Afro Guyanese were being reduced down to levels of Afro Brazilians.  Now that the coalition is in power, so that Afro Guyanese are no longer politically powerless, we will see what the future holds.

The notion that $200/month starving civil servants have any power is a laugh baseman.  The GDF and the GPF even struggle to hire and retain blacks, so that should inform you that these are not the lucrative jobs that you imagine.

Visit any number of islands and these places are swarming with Guyanese, the blacks ones, prior to May 11, telling you that Indian racism was what ran them out of Guyana.  Note that many of these blacks are not construction workers, or domestics, but people with college degrees, as well as nurses and teachers.

So what have blacks to be grateful to Indians, when even indians must FLEE to black islands to cut grass, and wipe babies' bottoms, and to provide sexual gratification for the local perverts?  Guyana remaining the POOREST country in the English speaking Caribbean.

Bai, you suffering from whip-lash?  I thought you said was Burnham.

Listen bai, even Itaname conceded that Indians tend to favor going into business rather than joining military which also hold true for overall Govt jobs.   To be successful in business, you need to be productive. These productive businesses will pay taxes to fund livable salaries for Govt services employees which are 90% Afros.

Any successful Afro businessman will also share the view of productivity as that's how they became successful.  Any educated Afro should be treated without distinction that any similar Indo/other race regarding career opportunities in the Govt or commercial sector.  This is a basic human right.  I contend, Afros in Guyana will never become like Afro Brazilians as Guyana is different and most Indians don't want that.

Regarding salaries, well the GoG have a chance to address however, salaries need to be within the context of Guyana's economic reality.

I don't know what's your beef bai.  You have a big-ass chip on your shoulders.

Is that what you want people to believe?  Nothing like that is happening. 

The People who are fleeing to the black Islands are afro_guyanese themselves.   I went to most of these Islands and found afro_guyanese working very hard for their living because they have to..  There are no free bees on the Islands.  More so, the Islanders don't like Guyanese.

I only said Jagdeo to get a PPP lunatic excited.

What Burnham did is make Afro Guyanese unable to defend themselves against PPP racism.  The PPP set out to destroy blacks, and almost succeeded because Burnham refused to encourage blacks to establish bases of power outside of the political realm.  So when the PPP set out to exclude blacks, they were unable to fight back.

There is a whole PPP cabal of crony capitalists who0 exist because of Jagdeo, who squeezed out others fromk economic opportunity.

Jagdeo is a known racist, and any who doubt taht fact learned this in the election just gone.  Jagdeo led the attack on Moses who presented himself as a Guyanese first and foremost.  This is what I expect a national leader to do. 

In an environment of ethnic insecurity, who can one boast to head a "coolie" party, and then be shocked when non Indians refused to support that party?

As the Indian voting population drops, and the mixed voting population grows, how does promoting the PPP as a "coolie party" help the PPP?

Now that Afro Guyanese have a renewed opportunity, will the PNC foster greater risk taking from within this population, and also fight to ensure that the private sector ceases its racist practises against Afro Guyanese?

Indians are very present in TRinidad, Barbados, St Kitts Nevis, Grenada, St Maarten, and the BVI. 

In fact when people talk about "Guyanese" they usually refer to Guyanese Indians, who they see as being more visible, as they look different, are culturally different, and usually segregate themselves from the local populations. 

Afro Guyanese arent visible, unless they speak, and one detects the accent.  They usually fully integrate into the local populations.  In addition Afro Guyanese are less present in the lower occupational rungs, where Guyanese Indians can be easily seen.

What a crock of you know what this self-hating Indian Kissoon. I have never seen him write anything positive about Indians or India. He does not understand that though some Indians are doing well, its only a small percentage of them who live in the city are well off and BTW...they work hard for their wealth. The Indians who live in the countryside do not earn a weekly fixed wage and work in air conditioned offices.

I do not have a problem if the government allocate funding to help Africans develop business skill and enterprises...all of us will be better off, but they must take the same attitude to help the Amerindians and Indians, handicapped, and disenfranchised, etc in society. No one should get preferential treatment. (No to affirmative action, except maybe for the Amerindians...they have suffered tremendously). 

This government, like the PPP, did not confront the ethnic problem that exists in our society, they will sweep it under the rug like the PPP did. We will continue to back pedal when it comes to nation-building. The coalition thinks it is a "national unity" government because they have Holy Moses and Cockeyed Ramjattan in their midst to legitimize that they are doing.

Dont get me wrong...we cannot progress as a country unless we start to recognize that half of the population is excluded when either party is in power. Knuckleheads like Rudux and Carib will obviously spin the racist card and call my comments racist...because "they on top" and "its abe time now". That is how the ball will roll. 

The problem with Kissoon is that he does not understand this and he is so fanatically biased that for him any Indian who try to address their concerns are defined as racists. Well, he is a self-hating Indian, The problem in Guyana is that there arent a lot of Indians who are willing to take on this clown for a writer.

I challenge anyone of you....show me the evidence...where has this fool said anything positive about Indians (we know how obsessed he is with Jagdeo). Stop treating him and his words as if they are spoken from the almighty.

Vish

There goes Carib with his racist dribble again. Jagdeo's comments were a reflection of what he said he observed... I am guessing that nothing will come out of this court case...but we know where your hopes for this case lies...you want to crucify the man.  "Jagdeo is a known racist"....they only thing the opposition and fools like you can point to is his comments on the campaign trail. Jagdeo has done a lot to develop the country so that all Guyanese can benefit. Someone needs to bring this to your attention. You need to get off the "Me a hate Jagdeo too" bandwagon.  

Regarding Moses....Its one thing to say you are Guyanese first...we can all live with that we are all Guyanese, but its another thing to deny your ethnicity (Rodney would never do this). Moses on the one hand was saying he was Guyanese, buy on the other hand he was securing 12% Indian support to make the coalition shall we say "non-racial". He wants to have it both ways. You do not seem to understand this because your blinders are securely shut. 

"Indians are very present in TRinidad, Barbados, St Kitts Nevis, Grenada, St Maarten, and the BVI. 

In fact when people talk about "Guyanese" they usually refer to Guyanese Indians, who they see as being more visible, as they look different, are culturally different, and usually segregate themselves from the local populations. "

OMG,

You for real brother?? They are everywhere 

Afro Guyanese arent visible, unless they speak, and one detects the accent.  They usually fully integrate into the local populations.  In addition Afro Guyanese are less present in the lower occupational rungs, where Guyanese Indians can be easily seen.

Well, I will be darn...who runs the police and military....they were visible during 1973...you forgot?

i suspect that u are one of the 'security' Guyanese Indians screaming for a "balancing" of the disciplined services in ways that border on, or are flat out coercive

in light of the above, i will gladly withdraw if i am wrong

Wrong buddy.

But I am all for helping Afro develop and establish competitive businesses.

But I think before we begin to go down that road, we, as I guess you might agree, have to honestly confront the racial monster in our midst and build from there. Guyana, as you know is still a deeply divided society.  

Why is he self hating?  Because he pointed out taht prior to May 11th Afro Guyanese were excluded from all sources of power and influence and Guyana, and were fast falling to where Afro Brazilians are?

That was indeed a fact.  Now we can engage in intelligent discussion about this.  We can also add that the dominance of Guyana by Indian elites, is no indicator of the position of the vast majority of the Indo Guyanese, who probably arent much better off.

But what you cannot pretend as if there was not systematic actions by the PPP and their Indo elite crony capitalists cabal to exclude blacks from any source of power.  Or that there actions any different from those under taken 100 years ago by the colonial administration, and the planter elites.

You know should the APNU AFC coalition use their power to systematically exclude Indians (apart from their Indo friends) much as the PNC Burnham group did in the 70s and 80s, you would be among the loudest in the screams about how Indians are being persecuted.

Be a man and admit that when Indo elites attempted to exclude blacks under the PPP regime, they were NO BETTER than were Burnham's Afro political elites who similar sought to reduce any involvement by Indians in the functioning of Guyana, except as menials.

What I find about you is that when an Indian speaks out against Indian racism, they are self hating.  When an African speaks out against Indian racism they are bigots.

Yet when Walter Rodney spoke out against African racism, he wasnt self hating, nor were the Indians who also spoke out against this considered to be racists.

WHY THE DOU8LE STANDARDS??

Ok if you think that Jagdeo's comments were appropriate in a country6 where 60% of the population, and more than 50% of the voters ARE NOT INDIAN, then what can I say.

Now what did Jagdeo say or do in this campaign that showed that he was cognizent of the fact that ethnic insecurity has destroyed Guyana, and that it is incumbent from  any one who purports to lead Guyana to attempt to resolve this problem.

I have no idea what the coalition gov't will do, or if their "national unity" campaign is anything but electoral rhetoric.  But at least they recognize that they have a problem.

What did Jagdeo do?  Call the PPP a "coolie party" and then Rohee told us exactly why the PPP is a collie party.  Did they address plans to reduce anxieties of the African and mixed voters towards the PPP?  NO! In fact their HEIGHTENED it! 

Jagdeo also played to the insecturities of the Indians by telling them that if the PPP does NOT win then GDF and GPF will attack them, and PNC supporters will  rob from them and rape them.

Please tell me that you arent so stupid not to know that "PNC supporter" is code language for "BLACKMAN".  Jagdeo wished to portray blacks as uncontrolled savages who have no other goal aside from assaulting and stealing from Indians.

Then we see simpletons like Rama telling us that we Afro Guyanese ought to be lucky that "hard working Indians" live in Guyana.  So9 what is he saying?  That blacks are fundamentally lazy and that Guyanese blacks live in the most prosperous CARICOM nation due to the presence of large numbers of Indians?

Now please indicate to me ANY post of yours condemning such language as being racist.

No.  Even as Rama, cobra, rev, baseman and others reveal exactly how Indo racism works, you will ignore them, and attempt to get off by claiming that you never made such statements.

Well the fact that you have the time to attack those who discuss Indo racism, and say nothing to those who DISPLAY Indo racism, shows us exactly what YOU are!

1. Moses did NOT deny that he is of Indian ancestry, and in fact he said exactly that.  What he said is that he is NOT Indian, much as a Pakistani is NOT Indian.  ARE you too dense to understand what he was saying?

2.  Moses said this when he was a very strong PPP man, cussing out the PNC and the AFC daily, and yet what did the PPP say about these comments when they were made?  NOTHING!

Moses was putting his NATIONALITY AHEAD of his ethnicity, but all the Indo racist (which based on their voting most Indo Guyanese seem to be) scream at the notion that any Indo should be in ANY WAY classified with an Afro Guyanese.

Maybe you should follow Prashad and the others and establish your own Jaganistan, as clearly any connection or identity with Guyanese who arent Indian is unimportant to you, AND you will condemn any Indian who thinks otherwise! 

Reality is 60% of Guyana is NOT Indian, and will NOT tolerate being made into dalits ruled by a racist crony Indo regime.

OK I now know that you are an idiot who cannot read and comprehend.  I was addressing Guyanese who live in various parts of the Caribbean.

I bet you are one of those who claim that blacks ought to be grateful that we live in a country with "hard working Indians".   I dont see where you have condemned those who have said this, and we do know that this is an attitude which is very widespread among Indians.  Even as they iron shirts and cut grass for black Bajans.

One would think that Guyana was the richest CARICOM nation, and that others were begging to live in this paradise where "lazy blacks can live off hard working Indians".

And I bet you think it is described merely as "baad black man beating up nuff saintly Indians". 

You get a heart attack at the mere suggestion that the racial monster is just as Indian as it is African.

what exactly does "wrong buddy" mean fella? . . . and why u not linking to my post?

i made specific observations regarding ethnic security, and you respond by dancin around the place babbling about "helping" Afros and "competitive businesses" and random shyte about confronting racism

uh huh . . . hmmmmm?

Listen banna, Indians, Portugese, Chinese, etc have always dominated private business in Guyana, nothing to do with Jagdeo.  Some fall and new ones rise.

And fine, Afros have the second opportunity to establish this "base outside of the political realm" whatever that is.  You need to convey your plans/ideas to HE Granger so he can correct Burnham "error".

Your post makes no sense whatsoever. 

So all Indos are racist. What do you call the Afros who did not vote for Cheddi knucklehead?

In the 60s the Portuguese dominated the larger businesses in Guyana.  The Indians who were also strong were folks like the Kirpalanis were NOT descendants of indentures.

Indians only began to dominate the business sector in the 90s, as the economy opened up.

Understand something racist.  Indians are considerably POORER than are Portuguese and Chinese.  Whats the excuse.  They didn't face a colonial administration as intent on its destruction as did the Africans.  Why didn't Indians follow Chinese and Portuguese out of the cane fields?

While the planters offered land settlement schemes to Indians, they over taxed and flooded out lands owned by the Africans.

Do you know that the FIRST occupations that Afro Guyanese entered was FARMING and small business?  Now ask yourself what happened, and why Africans were forced to abandon those occupations.

Hey banna, I ain't arguing the merits of any ethnic group's business potential, be my guest, Guyana has ample lands and opportunities, truck on man.

Regarding the poorer Indians vs Portugese/Chinese, hey man, I thought PPP was "Indian-biased", how come them ain't the richest.  I guess you lil tangled up in your web.  Anyway, PNC back in power, tek it and run with it and become rich and stop complaining and finger pointing.  Is alyuh dayzz now, once again!!

Indos who voted AGAINST Moses, because he refused to put his ethnicity as an Indian ahead of his nationality as a Guyanese, do not want to be Guyanese.  They cannot envisage any identity which links them to other Guyanese, aside from the mere accident of being born within Guyanese borders, and holding a Guyanese passport. You can use what ever description that you wish.

At a time when the PPP was even MORE discredited than it was even in 2011 they attract MORE votes.  This after mounting the most blatant racist and anti Afro Guyanese campaign since the 1964 elections.  They were REWARDED for this. 

Draw your own conclusions which I know will be the normal braying of "savage black man beating up and raping poor innocent Indians".

Well the PNC was blatantly racist and yet no one will concede that blacks were wealthy in 1976.

Turns out that both groups are tangled by the pathologies of their history. 

This is what makes Indians look ridiculous when they adopt attitudes of superiority over blacks, this while they flock to Barbados and St Kitts to cut grass and wash dishes for black people.

Now here is an academic writing about African political economy. Has not defined the idea, but I guess he is talking about distribution. Now no attempt at discussing polarization measures, functional income distribution, Gini coefficient, ethnic-based poverty measures (like the depth of poverty) and the like. His 'data' is the attendance at the cricket stadium when that is a clear self-selection bias...that is perceived to be Bobby's and Jagdeo's thing so Africans will largely stay away.

He is using an illustration that people can more readily relate to than the Gini coefficient, to which they cannot.  Guyanese of all races love cricket, so if the crowds consist of one ethnicity, then it does suggest that its because the other cannot afford the tickets.........just as is the case in Brazil.

The issue under the PPP was the concentration of economic and political power into the hands of the Indian elite.  Does this mean that poverty isn't also a problem among Indians.  Does this mean that African on average are worse off?  We don't know.

But what we do know is that optics drives perception, and is used to rationalize racism.  So it will be said that "black people lazy". Not that a PPP/Indo elite cabal ensured their exclusion, as they saw them as a threat to their continued monopoly of power. And that they used grass roots Indians to do so.

Because yes, the optics of an Indo dominated elite is what drives so many on this board to say "black people lazy".  Do they do any analysis to back their point? 

But a hiring manager, who is Indian, will justify not hiring blacks (except as security guards) because "black people lazy".  And when blacks comment on this, we are decried as Afrocentric racists.

And please don't tell me that blacks stayed away as they think its a Jagdeo/Bobby thing.  Look at all those free PPP shows that they went to.