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FM
Former Member

Justice Chang’s ruling: The most reactionary decision in our post-independence history

Posted By Henry Jeffrey On February 5, 2014 @ 5:02 am In Daily,Features | No Comments

“The court acting as guardian of the Constitution cannot be accused of seeking to fetter the work of the Assembly since it must be recognised that what fetters the Assembly is not the court but the Constitution itself or the law itself as interpreted by the courts. It is not the court which fetters but the Constitution or the law as interpreted by the Court.”

When we try to justify positions which run counter to a progressive historical trajectory, it rarely makes sense and frequently leads to the confusion of thought exhibited above. What is the crux of any court if not its interpretation? For Chief Justice Ian Chang to tell us that what fetters the Assembly is not the court but its interpretation is therefore truly historic.

The court is not some kind of divine heavenly intervention that periodically showers us with undisputable truths; it is not an objective reality outside of the judge(s) that constitute it and provide us with interpretations. In the matter of the Constitution of the Republic of Guyana between the Attorney General of Guyana and Raphael Trotman, et al., the court was Chang CJ, with all his human prejudices, ambitions, fears, etc. Thus what fetters the Assembly is the peculiar interpretation of Chief Justice Chang and not some magical, objective, court. Interpretations of this sort may or may not take into consideration many variables and are not simply right or wrong but also restrictive or liberative depending  upon the predisposition of the interpreter.

future notesThis is essentially why throughout the judicial history of the United States of America the parties in government keep trying to place people of their specific persuasion on court benches and particularly the Supreme Court bench. And American history is replete with the differing judgments of differently constituted courts on essentially similar issues such as school busing, affirmative action, etc.  Sometimes, depending on where one stands on an issue, the decision of the Supreme Court could be seen as a fetter or liberating.

Indeed, the very idea of an appeal suggests that one is questioning specific interpretations of specific judge(s). Any attempt therefore to cloak the responsibility for a given decision under some notion that the Constitution/laws and not the court is solely responsible for it is nonsense and must be rejected if we are to understand how a specific decision came to be made and take any necessary remedial action.

We expect modern judges to base their decisions not simply on (as we have seen above) some questionable logical excursion rooted in a few pieces of written laws. Quite apart from consideration of the law and precedents, due consideration must also be given to legitimate expectation, modern trends and to the needs of the given society, and this approach is not new to our judiciary.

For example, it had become legendary that during the Burnham era in most instances where the constitution or laws required the government to consult with the opposition, Mr. Burnham would simply phone Dr. Jagan and inform him what he intended to do without bothering much about what he had to say. In 1999, in a dispute between the Guyana Medical Council and the Ministry of Health, a more modern-minded chief justice, Desiree Bernard, in giving her decision took into consideration modern notions of consultation that require not simply that one meet and talk but that written reasons for decisions taken be given. I remember this because even though the decision was against me, I was impressed by this small attempt to modernise our relationships.

At the international level, legislative involvement in the budgetary process has largely been responsible for the growth of democracy. The power of the legislature in this process has waxed and waned, but today, as the people seek to take greater control of their existence, it is again on the rise. “Recent years have witnessed a resurgence of legislative roles and responsibilities in budgeting” (Posner, Paul and Chung-Keun Park (2007) “Role of the Legislature in the Budget Process: Recent Trends and Innovations,” OECD).

In 2007, 18 of 30 OECD countries reported that their legislatures had unrestricted powers to amend the budget. In the remaining countries some legislatures could amend only if they did not change the overall fiscal position while others could only decrease and not increase proposed spending. As we all know, in the United States Congress, the president’s budget is regarded as only a recommendation; when Congress is controlled by a different political party than the president, the executive budget is often referred to as “dead on arrival” (Ibid)

In “What the chief justice ruled” (SN: 02/02/2014) Mr. Ralph Ramkarran, gave a brief (some would say tongue-in-cheek) historical development of the relevant Constitutional Articles stating “Essentially, therefore, the power of the National Assembly to increase or reduce the estimates has remained intact and unchallenged since Independence based on what appeared to be clear constitutional provisions.” Mr. Ramkarran was intricately involved in the process that crafted the present constitution and here indicates not only what the traditional belief was but also what was the expectation of at least some if not all of the drafters.

Chang CJ narrowly, but pointedly told us that “What must inform this court are the relevant provisions of the Constitution of Guyana rather than practices which obtain in foreign jurisdictions” – without helpful reference to parallel or similar constitutional or legislative provision in those jurisdictions. There obviously was only a smattering of the latter!

Furthermore, in my view, his deliberate decision not to give Article 171(2) (b) of the Constitution similar weight to Article 171(2)(a)(ii), which allows the Assembly to reduce the government’s estimate to conclude a national budget, is to say the least overly restrictive, arbitrary and questionable.

What this episode has reminded us of is that courts are constituted of people with all their prejudices and interests and that to reduce bias, important matters such as this should, even in the first stages, be assigned to a panel and not left to a single person. Secondly, where possible, when subsequent events can be affected by an instant decision, rules should be made to ensure that that decision is given in sufficient time to allow for appeals to be heard.

Chief Justice Ian Chang has provided us with one judicial interpretation of our laws that is arguably the most reactionary in our post-independence history.  It failed to take into consideration the general trends in international parliamentary/budgetary relations, long and historical practice in Guyana and even the nature of our society, which cries out for arrangements that will force compromise. What he has done makes an already largely irrelevant people’s chamber even more so!

henryjeffrey@yahoo.com

 

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by JoKer:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

 

Which butcher did your goadey surgery?

I am NOt IGNORANT and ILLITERATE like you. I went to De Lee.!!!

Nehru

Could some one post these two articles.

 

Furthermore, in my view, his deliberate decision not to give Article 171(2) (b) of the Constitution similar weight to Article 171(2)(a)(ii), which allows the Assembly to reduce the government’s estimate to conclude a national budget, is to say the least overly restrictive, arbitrary and questionable.

Mitwah
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

FM
Originally Posted by kajol:
Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

Excellent! Well said.

 

Rev

FM
Originally Posted by Rev:
Originally Posted by kajol:
Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

Excellent! Well said.

 

Rev

Kajol, don't you mean the constitution of the republic of Guyana???

Nehru
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

In game theory parlance we are stuck in a game of playing chicken and no potential out exists for either party. This can mean reciprocal holding up of budgets until this gets resolved. The PPP are not wining a majority again. If t hey win by a majority and use  the state as their cashbox I am sure they will be up for being taken down by force. This is a horrible situation we are in.

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

In game theory parlance we are stuck in a game of playing chicken and no potential out exists for either party. This can mean reciprocal holding up of budgets until this gets resolved. The PPP are not wining a majority again. If t hey win by a majority and use  the state as their cashbox I am sure they will be up for being taken down by force. This is a horrible situation we are in.

the ppp is playing poker with the opposition let see if the opposition will call the bluff 

FM
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

In game theory parlance we are stuck in a game of playing chicken and no potential out exists for either party. This can mean reciprocal holding up of budgets until this gets resolved. The PPP are not wining a majority again. If t hey win by a majority and use  the state as their cashbox I am sure they will be up for being taken down by force. This is a horrible situation we are in.

the ppp is playing poker with the opposition let see if the opposition will call the bluff 

so what do we do? flip flop from bluff to bluff?

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

In game theory parlance we are stuck in a game of playing chicken and no potential out exists for either party. This can mean reciprocal holding up of budgets until this gets resolved. The PPP are not wining a majority again. If t hey win by a majority and use  the state as their cashbox I am sure they will be up for being taken down by force. This is a horrible situation we are in.

the ppp is playing poker with the opposition let see if the opposition will call the bluff 

so what do we do? flip flop from bluff to bluff?

no vote down the whole budget and lets go to the polls

FM
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

In game theory parlance we are stuck in a game of playing chicken and no potential out exists for either party. This can mean reciprocal holding up of budgets until this gets resolved. The PPP are not wining a majority again. If t hey win by a majority and use  the state as their cashbox I am sure they will be up for being taken down by force. This is a horrible situation we are in.

the ppp is playing poker with the opposition let see if the opposition will call the bluff 

so what do we do? flip flop from bluff to bluff?

no vote down the whole budget and lets go to the polls

The option exists where no one will ever be a majority. In these instances will be no resolution and  we would be  flipping from election to election with increasing potential for violence

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

In game theory parlance we are stuck in a game of playing chicken and no potential out exists for either party. This can mean reciprocal holding up of budgets until this gets resolved. The PPP are not wining a majority again. If t hey win by a majority and use  the state as their cashbox I am sure they will be up for being taken down by force. This is a horrible situation we are in.

the ppp is playing poker with the opposition let see if the opposition will call the bluff 

so what do we do? flip flop from bluff to bluff?

no vote down the whole budget and lets go to the polls

The option exists where no one will ever be a majority. In these instances will be no resolution and  we would be  flipping from election to election with increasing potential for violence

this is why i ask if the ARMY cannot take over install a intertrim government,scrap the constitution and call fresh election

FM
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

In game theory parlance we are stuck in a game of playing chicken and no potential out exists for either party. This can mean reciprocal holding up of budgets until this gets resolved. The PPP are not wining a majority again. If t hey win by a majority and use  the state as their cashbox I am sure they will be up for being taken down by force. This is a horrible situation we are in.

the ppp is playing poker with the opposition let see if the opposition will call the bluff 

so what do we do? flip flop from bluff to bluff?

no vote down the whole budget and lets go to the polls

The option exists where no one will ever be a majority. In these instances will be no resolution and  we would be  flipping from election to election with increasing potential for violence

this is why i ask if the ARMY cannot take over install a intertrim government,scrap the constitution and call fresh election

the army has no leaders with the integrity or standing to lead. We are the unfortunate society to have more crooks  than leaders in auspicious roles.

FM
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

In game theory parlance we are stuck in a game of playing chicken and no potential out exists for either party. This can mean reciprocal holding up of budgets until this gets resolved. The PPP are not wining a majority again. If t hey win by a majority and use  the state as their cashbox I am sure they will be up for being taken down by force. This is a horrible situation we are in.

the ppp is playing poker with the opposition let see if the opposition will call the bluff 

so what do we do? flip flop from bluff to bluff?

no vote down the whole budget and lets go to the polls

The option exists where no one will ever be a majority. In these instances will be no resolution and  we would be  flipping from election to election with increasing potential for violence

this is why i ask if the ARMY cannot take over install a intertrim government,scrap the constitution and call fresh election

the army has no leaders with the integrity or standing to lead. We are the unfortunate society to have more crooks  than leaders in auspicious roles.

living with the ARMY running the country for 6 months is better than the ppp for the next 6 yrs

FM
Originally Posted by kajol:
Originally Posted by Danyael:
Originally Posted by Nehru:

Is Jeffrey an Attorney?? I wonder if Jeffrey goes to his Butcher for his Goadey surgery???

Dude...if our assembly is reduced to a prop...what good is it? Do u think that is what the framers intended? If so, why does it exist? Were not the PPP against this very state calling it oppressive? What happened to their conscience since they came to power? And why was there a tradition in the legislature that has no predicates to this domination of the executive? One does not have to be a lawyer to see what a terrible decision this is.

The decision might seem to be terrible, unfair and myopic when viewed in context of how a democracy with a fair constitution is expected to work. But we are not looking at that in Guyana. Here we have the Burnham Constitution, written by Shahabuddeen on Burnham's instructions to ensure absolute paramountcy of the executive, come what may. And that is what the CJ was interpreting. He gave his judicial interpretation of that Burnham Constitution. He could do nothing else, he cannot by judicial ruling rectify the wrongs in the constitution or fix what is unfair. That can only be done by Constitutional reform.

 

The thing is, that Burnham Constitution has always found favor with the incumbent government through the years, whether it was pnc or ppp - it has served their interests to preserve it simply because they think it makes them invincible. Recall the last sham of Constitutional reform that was undertaken a decade ago, much of the Burnham Constitution remained.

 

Like a few others I think the CJ has narrowed the options - vote it all down and I think he even suggests that the minister might have out of political prudence to fix it the way the opposition wants it. Other possible alternatve consequences are of course that the govt continues spending and invokes the doctrine of necessity and thereby triggers a plethora of other political nightmares. And of course, there is always the option of early elections in case of a vote down, but I rather think that no one political party is really ready or eager for that.

 

As D-G says we are indeed in interesting times.

 

Guyana Constitution needs changing - FULL STOP!

FM

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