Prashad posted:

Mitwah posted:

Prash sounds like him a lot.

Mits, the way I see the difference between Ravi Dev and me may be this. Ravi Dev wants Federalism. East Indians will have a province within a state. I want an independent Sovereign Country where any Guyanese can live as long as they support the survival of the East Indian culture on the South American Continent and respect the human rights/dignity of the East Indian people of Guyana.

Unfortunately, partitioning the nation is and will  never be an end. Federalism will cleave national unity as it will leave us as Nigeria with some states being supreme because of their resources and that will be used as an instrument of subjugation. We need devolution but there are many ways of achieving that as non territorial federalism. East indian culture is doing quite well in Guyana. Actually, Guyanese Indians are culturally unique as they pruned off all the burdensome cultural notions practiced in india for a more inclusive Hinduism. It has no corollary in India

caribny posted:

Prashad posted:

Mitwah posted:

Prash sounds like him a lot.

Mits, the way I see the difference between Ravi Dev and me may be this. Ravi Dev wants Federalism. East Indians will have a province within a state. I want an independent Sovereign Country where any Guyanese can live as long as they support the survival of the East Indian culture on the South American Continent and respect the human rights/dignity of the East Indian people of Guyana.

So you want a country like Israel where some exist as sub humans subject to being excluded because of their culture/ethnicity. At least Ravi Dev is honest.

He does not know what the hell he is talking about. His idea will reside in his own skull and nowhere else. 

ronan posted:

Keffer posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Django posted:

Baseman posted:

Ravi Dev is the voice of truth.  You may not like what he says, but he says the truth.  

He is like Trump, except he does not tell little White lies, he tells the honest truth!

I read his piece, he did not insult Afros, he gave the perception the colonists created to sow divisions and disunity.  Guyana today is a product of that.  

Bhai,

Ravi is an Indo-Centrist

Being Indo-centrist is not a crime. Being Afro-centrist is not a crime. I have a high regard for Eric Phillips of ACDA. 

You have evidently never met Eric Philips; he is a 1000% fully committed racist !! How do I know ? I attended Queen's College in the same years with him and my impression of him from the time we entered QC after completing common entrance was that he oozes racism with every breath that he takes !! Do you really believe his suggestion that Afro Guyanese be given 150,000 square miles of land was based on decency, generosity, charity or kindness ? If you do, please be advised that I have a ton of gold that I will sell you for only $1.00 !

so, you met  Eric Philips in 1st Form at age 11

i don't know the guy; my brother did

how exactly did he ooze racism "in every breath he takes" in those early pre-teen and teenage years

the guy was a legend by the time i got there, and i never heard anything supporting your claim in my years at QC 

and i know Stanley Ming

and i don't support ACDA's positions for reparations or land

btw, it's 15,000 sq. miles not 150,000

needless to say, your "impressions" are suspect

He may not be a racist but he is  afro centrist and  not merely as a cultural revivalist but one that sees Guyana under the dominion of his kind of cultural African.  He defines himself as indigenous and as such the state is his natural patrimony. Further, he believes that by virtue of debts owed by the colonials, Guyana is an Afican natural possession. 

skeldon_man posted:

I don't give a rat's ass as to what Ravi Dev or anyone says. I am coolie to the bone!!!! Don't care to read about hybrids. Tell that to Carib. He is interested in the douglarization of Guyana.

Whatever that means, as long as it does not intrude on my space you are welcomed to it. Guyana is  almost a quarter mixed. Caribj has nothing to do with that. As soon of indians came off the hesperus and withby, the record indicates they were gleefully cohabitating with the "negresses" Whether you like it or not you are bring along some african genes. 

seignet posted:

Iguana posted:

seignet posted:

And yuh still say you are not here for over 20 years. As usual, a skont of 20 years back and stil the same skont today.

Kudos to you fuh stick round hay fuh 20 years. I ain't got dat much patience. Yuh come fresh outta chuch yesterday and 2 nasty cuss come out yuh stink mouth. Yuh nah shame? Damn old hypocrite. Yuh shud change yuh name to SKONT-NET.

D2 behave yuhself. Peace brother, I goan stap cussing now.

Is it not truly strange that as you struggle in the dimly lit regions of the twilight of your life you cannot help being a dumb ass and quite making up imaginary people who are your boogiemen?

I do not know the Iguana...bear no responsibility for what he says and cannot even say I know what he believes since I have not read much of his works. I doubt there are any other like me since I never met them!

seignet posted:

caribny posted:

 

Ravi Dev said that blacks are a violence prone savage bunch who have contributed nothing to Guyana.  At least 50% of the GNI posters agree with his assessment.

Any indian would tell yuh dat.

So then you say that Indians are a bunch of racists.  Not just those in the Indo KKK.

Baseman posted:

 

Banna, you surely don’t check the disclosures of Exxon.  

Stanley Ming spoke of a deep water harbor long before Exxon appeared but the racist dummy that you are cannot understand that.

Understand this.  Exxon can do as it wishes because it knows that Guyana lacks the infrastructure to do much value added in the petro sector and at this point will never have this. Had we listened to Ming and had in place mechanisms to have a deep water port then part of the negotiations would have been ensuring that Exxon, or whoever was awarded access to explore, would do some value added in Guyana.

But once again Guyana will export commodities in the most raw form because we lack foresight. We attack those with a vision just because we don't like their politics.

Baseman the islands no longer have jobs for Guyanese so the notion that the country can remain primitive where  few enrich themselves in speculation while the majority subsist, isn't sustainable.

And here is the issue.  T&T will likely close down their refinery. Venezuela has no refinery capacity to spare as Maduro destroyed what they have.  Now see where Guyana could have been had it a proper deep water harbor.  But Ming didn't suck Jagdeo so nothing that he said TWENTY years ago was considered valid!

D2 posted:

.

Is it not truly strange that as you struggle in the dimly lit regions of the twilight of your life you cannot help being a dumb ass and quite making up imaginary people who are your boogiemen?

 

I do not know how people can think that you are iguana. He might have said the same thing, but in a very different manner.

I guess those with minimal literacy aren't adept at detecting definitive writing styles.

D2 posted:

 the record indicates they were gleefully cohabitating with the "negresses" Whether you like it or not you are bring along some african genes. 

Last time this was mentioned a GNI member almost committed suicide when another pointed out that some of the "negresses" blood coursed thru his veins.  He was enraged that this "family secret" was exposed.

Just like the KKK member whose Ancestry DNA showed him to be 20% sub Saharan African.

I don't know why some live in denial as so many Guyanese Indians don't look so definitively "Indian" once they shave off their hair.

Baseman posted:

 

You stupid if you think Exxon can get what it wants.  

Exxon is the man whose hand is up the head of the puppet who is Trump.

Is there anything that Trump does that Exxon doesn't want? 

D2 posted:

Prashad posted:

Mitwah posted:

Prash sounds like him a lot.

Mits, the way I see the difference between Ravi Dev and me may be this. Ravi Dev wants Federalism. East Indians will have a province within a state. I want an independent Sovereign Country where any Guyanese can live as long as they support the survival of the East Indian culture on the South American Continent and respect the human rights/dignity of the East Indian people of Guyana.

Unfortunately, partitioning the nation is and will  never be an end. Federalism will cleave national unity as it will leave us as Nigeria with some states being supreme because of their resources and that will be used as an instrument of subjugation. We need devolution but there are many ways of achieving that as non territorial federalism. East indian culture is doing quite well in Guyana. Actually, Guyanese Indians are culturally unique as they pruned off all the burdensome cultural notions practiced in india for a more inclusive Hinduism. It has no corollary in India

What Ravi Dev doesn't seem to understand is that by far the largest number of Indians in Guyana live in Region 4, 45% of the population in Region 5 aren't Indian, and Region 6 has the third largest population of blacks in Guyana.

So where is this tribal state that Prash and Ravi think exists?  Do they think that people will want to involuntarily move or made into sub humans in regions where they aren't the dominant ethnic group?

And yes "East Indian culture" might be doing quite well in Guyana, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum.  60% of the population do not identify with it, so it must have some basis of interaction with what is now the majority of the diverse population.

D2 posted:

 

 I disagree with him that indians were the seeds of African oppression. They are mere instruments of the plantocracy that needed to pit each in adversarial roles as a check on each other. 

And I said exactly that though there are the majority who will distort what I said.  The intent of the planters was to ensure their dominance by creating two completely separate pools of labor, controlling them by encouraging each to confront the other instead of cooperate with each other.

In fact I also stated that the planters succeeded in damaging the "free villages" by flooding their lands, over taxing them, not providing proper drainage, and not permitting these villages to acquire additions lands as they grew.  The intent of the planters was to reduce these villagers to mendicants to be used as scab labor when the Indian indentures refused to cooperate.

And when that didn't work they brought in Bajans, though to their chagrin, Bajans had this habit of returning home to celebrate Xmas, whether there was cane to be cut or not. Not being contracted Bajans became too hard to control.  In addition Bajans were more educated and skilled so found work outside of the plantations.  The foundation of much of the black middle class arose from these Bajan migrants.

The BGEIA should have focused on protecting Indian indentures by encouraging cooperation with the African/mixed population rather than inciting confrontation with their ill conceived project of encouraging Indian migration even after it became apparent that the Indian indenture programs were to end.

D2 posted:

 

He may not be a racist but he is  afro centrist and  not merely as a cultural revivalist but one that sees Guyana under the dominion of his kind of cultural African.  He defines himself as indigenous and as such the state is his natural patrimony. Further, he believes that by virtue of debts owed by the colonials, Guyana is an Afican natural possession. 

His problem is that I don't think that most black Guyanese have the type of "African" identity that he would wish them to have. We are creoles. We don't even agree as to who is or who isn't black.  We exist on a continuum, both physically and culturally with other influences.

So there just isn't this highly defined ethnic identity who will act the way that he wishes.  I don't hear anyone other than Eric and his followers demanding a slice of "African" land. What they wish is to be a people who happen to have varying degrees of African ancestry, and not be punished as a result of this. 

This is a highly individualistic bunch, so his communal approach, which might have worked in 1842 is doomed to fail in 2018.  I see no evidence that the black middle class feel a high sense of ethnic collaboration with the impoverished blacks in these rural villagers, or the slums of G/T for that matter.

caribny posted:

Baseman posted:

 

Banna, you surely don’t check the disclosures of Exxon.  

Stanley Ming spoke of a deep water harbor long before Exxon appeared but the racist dummy that you are cannot understand that.

What was the deep water harbor for?  I hope you don't mean they should have built it and hope someone found oil!

So, tell me, what was the purpose of the deep water harbor?

caribny posted:

Baseman posted:

 

You stupid if you think Exxon can get what it wants.  

Exxon is the man whose hand is up the head of the puppet who is Trump.

Is there anything that Trump does that Exxon doesn't want? 

Intellectually, very shallow!

caribny posted:

Labba posted:

t imagine if dem Guyana coolies like Ravi Dev deh seh half de nasty tings yuh hero Lee seh bout black people. A Kean Gibsonite like yuh self would be on fyah...hey hey hey...

he has said worse. Lee left it at Caribbean people being lazy and loving to party. Btw he didn't just include blacks.

Ravi Dev said that blacks are a violence prone savage bunch who have contributed nothing to Guyana.  At least 50% of the GNI posters agree with his assessment.

Hey hey hey...yuh pullin a fass wan pon dem bais. Post de link or citation when Ravi Dev say dat. Anyhow Kean Gibsonite like yu can never be honest. Go check back what Lee seh. Hey hey hey...

Baseman posted:

 

What was the deep water harbor for?  I hope you don't mean they should have built it and hope someone found oil!

So, tell me, what was the purpose of the deep water harbor?

Its disturbing that some of the small islands have deep water harbors which Guyana lacks and you ask such a silly question.  Bigger vessels allow lower shipping costs of both imports and exports.  Guyana is a commodity exporter and not a service economy in the sense that Barbados is.

Labba posted:

caribny posted:

Labba posted:

t imagine if dem Guyana coolies like Ravi Dev deh seh half de nasty tings yuh hero Lee seh bout black people. A Kean Gibsonite like yuh self would be on fyah...hey hey hey...

he has said worse. Lee left it at Caribbean people being lazy and loving to party. Btw he didn't just include blacks.

Ravi Dev said that blacks are a violence prone savage bunch who have contributed nothing to Guyana.  At least 50% of the GNI posters agree with his assessment.

Hey hey hey...yuh pullin a fass wan pon dem bais. Post de link or citation when Ravi Dev say dat. Anyhow Kean Gibsonite like yu can never be honest. Go check back what Lee seh. Hey hey hey...

 

Ravi Dev wrote a whole book on this topic.  His premise is that Afro Guyanese are a violent lot.

caribny posted:

Labba posted:

caribny posted:

Labba posted:

t imagine if dem Guyana coolies like Ravi Dev deh seh half de nasty tings yuh hero Lee seh bout black people. A Kean Gibsonite like yuh self would be on fyah...hey hey hey...

he has said worse. Lee left it at Caribbean people being lazy and loving to party. Btw he didn't just include blacks.

Ravi Dev said that blacks are a violence prone savage bunch who have contributed nothing to Guyana.  At least 50% of the GNI posters agree with his assessment.

Hey hey hey...yuh pullin a fass wan pon dem bais. Post de link or citation when Ravi Dev say dat. Anyhow Kean Gibsonite like yu can never be honest. Go check back what Lee seh. Hey hey hey...

 

Ravi Dev wrote a whole book on this topic.  His premise is that Afro Guyanese are a violent lot.

It is a much revised pamphlet called the "Aetiology of violence". I a copy from the early JAIAG days. 

D2 posted:

ronan posted:

Keffer posted:

Gilbakka posted:

Django posted:

Baseman posted:

Ravi Dev is the voice of truth.  You may not like what he says, but he says the truth.  

He is like Trump, except he does not tell little White lies, he tells the honest truth!

I read his piece, he did not insult Afros, he gave the perception the colonists created to sow divisions and disunity.  Guyana today is a product of that.  

Bhai,

Ravi is an Indo-Centrist

Being Indo-centrist is not a crime. Being Afro-centrist is not a crime. I have a high regard for Eric Phillips of ACDA. 

You have evidently never met Eric Philips; he is a 1000% fully committed racist !! How do I know ? I attended Queen's College in the same years with him and my impression of him from the time we entered QC after completing common entrance was that he oozes racism with every breath that he takes !! Do you really believe his suggestion that Afro Guyanese be given 150,000 square miles of land was based on decency, generosity, charity or kindness ? If you do, please be advised that I have a ton of gold that I will sell you for only $1.00 !

so, you met  Eric Philips in 1st Form at age 11

i don't know the guy; my brother did

how exactly did he ooze racism "in every breath he takes" in those early pre-teen and teenage years

the guy was a legend by the time i got there, and i never heard anything supporting your claim in my years at QC 

and i know Stanley Ming

and i don't support ACDA's positions for reparations or land

btw, it's 15,000 sq. miles not 150,000

needless to say, your "impressions" are suspect

He may not be a racist but he is  afro centrist and  not merely as a cultural revivalist but one that sees Guyana under the dominion of his kind of cultural African.  He defines himself as indigenous and as such the state is his natural patrimony. Further, he believes that by virtue of debts owed by the colonials, Guyana is an Afican natural possession. 

look, Afro-Guyanese, like Indo-Guyanese, are NOT indigenous to Guyana

i know little really of the ACDA activities of Eric Phillips . . . i know a bit more of his professional career in the USA and South Africa

it would be appreciated if you could point me to his writings where it is opined for whatever reason that Guyana is an African natural possession

i do recall reading somewhere about him signing on to some nonsense about pre-historic Africans in South America . . . as if such is material to the discussion of tribal land claims

and i have no idea what an "ancestral" land claim means in the Guyana context

Labba posted:

imagine if dem Guyana coolies like Ravi Dev deh seh half de nasty tings yuh hero Lee seh bout black people. A Kean Gibsonite like yuh self would be on fyah...hey hey hey…

the now DEAD Lee Kuan Yew's base opportunism and illiteracy regarding race is a matter of record

that subject is irrelevant here . . . he is NOT Guyanese!

Ravi Dev, however, is very much alive, is very much Guyanese, is very much resident in Guyana, and is an influential propaganda advisor to former President Jagdeo and the Opposition PPP

that, in any language screams 'RELEVANCE'

clear enuf? you sand dancin klown

smh

ronan posted:

Labba posted:

imagine if dem Guyana coolies like Ravi Dev deh seh half de nasty tings yuh hero Lee seh bout black people. A Kean Gibsonite like yuh self would be on fyah...hey hey hey…

the now DEAD Lee Kuan Yew's base opportunism and illiteracy regarding race is a matter of record

that subject is irrelevant here . . . he is NOT Guyanese!

Ravi Dev, however, is very much alive, is very much Guyanese, is very much resident in Guyana, and is an influential propaganda advisor to former President Jagdeo and the Opposition PPP

that, in any language screams 'RELEVANCE'

clear enuf? you sand dancin klown

smh

Ow...abie one lover, good chuch going patriotic Guyanese one lover...hey hey hey...turn up. Hey hey hey...

D2 posted:

caribny posted:

Labba posted:

caribny posted:

Labba posted:

t imagine if dem Guyana coolies like Ravi Dev deh seh half de nasty tings yuh hero Lee seh bout black people. A Kean Gibsonite like yuh self would be on fyah...hey hey hey...

he has said worse. Lee left it at Caribbean people being lazy and loving to party. Btw he didn't just include blacks.

Ravi Dev said that blacks are a violence prone savage bunch who have contributed nothing to Guyana.  At least 50% of the GNI posters agree with his assessment.

Hey hey hey...yuh pullin a fass wan pon dem bais. Post de link or citation when Ravi Dev say dat. Anyhow Kean Gibsonite like yu can never be honest. Go check back what Lee seh. Hey hey hey...

 

Ravi Dev wrote a whole book on this topic.  His premise is that Afro Guyanese are a violent lot.

It is a much revised pamphlet called the "Aetiology of violence". I a copy from the early JAIAG days. 

Me read de document 20 years ago. Meh honestly cyant remember Dev saying what de Kean Gibsonite CaribJ seh. But yuh D2 is much respected here. If yuh seh so, me would believe.

Labba posted:

ronan posted:

Labba posted:

imagine if dem Guyana coolies like Ravi Dev deh seh half de nasty tings yuh hero Lee seh bout black people. A Kean Gibsonite like yuh self would be on fyah...hey hey hey…

the now DEAD Lee Kuan Yew's base opportunism and illiteracy regarding race is a matter of record

that subject is irrelevant here . . . he is NOT Guyanese!

Ravi Dev, however, is very much alive, is very much Guyanese, is very much resident in Guyana, and is an influential propaganda advisor to former President Jagdeo and the Opposition PPP

that, in any language screams 'RELEVANCE'

clear enuf? you sand dancin klown

smh

Ow...abie one lover, good chuch going patriotic Guyanese one lover...hey hey hey...turn up. Hey hey hey...

well, i don't go to church

sooo . . .?

caribny posted:

Btw the Bahamas was a virtual fishing village in the 50s.  It was seriously poor.  Read Sydney Poitier's bio when you can.  Barbados was so poor in the 50s that they came to Guyana and accepted whatever pay Guyana offered. And your hero Cheddi Jagan described Guyana as being quite poor and primitive in the 50s.

So you don't make a point by citing Singapore is being marginally better.  They were like Puerto Rico, which was also poor in that era.

Prashad has no time to read about Sydney Poitier.  That man left his black wife who stood by him in thick and thin and made him somebody. Then he took a white woman and give her the best of what life has to offer.  Prashad has no time to waste with tommys.

 

<b>look, Afro-Guyanese, like Indo-Guyanese, are NOT indigenous to Guyana</b>

i know little really of the ACDA activities of Eric Phillips . . . i know a bit more of his professional career in the USA and South Africa

it would be appreciated if you could point me to his writings where it is opined for whatever reason that Guyana is an African natural possession

i do recall reading somewhere about him signing on to some nonsense about pre-historic Africans in South America . . . as if such is material to the discussion of tribal land claims

and i have no idea what an "ancestral" land claim means in the Guyana context

put this in your Google search for all he said on the matter at SN (minus the angle brackets)  < inurl:stabroeknews.com "eric phillips" in text "indigenous" > for the relevant document by him. I do not remember the title of his letter but the above should find it. 

D2 posted:

 

<b>look, Afro-Guyanese, like Indo-Guyanese, are NOT indigenous to Guyana</b>

i know little really of the ACDA activities of Eric Phillips . . . i know a bit more of his professional career in the USA and South Africa

it would be appreciated if you could point me to his writings where it is opined for whatever reason that Guyana is an African natural possession

i do recall reading somewhere about him signing on to some nonsense about pre-historic Africans in South America . . . as if such is material to the discussion of tribal land claims

and i have no idea what an "ancestral" land claim means in the Guyana context

put this in your Google search for all he said on the matter at SN (minus the angle brackets)  < inurl:stabroeknews.com "eric phillips" in text "indigenous" > for the relevant document by him. I do not remember the title of his letter but the above should find it. 

Amerindians were not the first people on the continent

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2...st-people-continent/

Django posted:

D2 posted:

 

<b>look, Afro-Guyanese, like Indo-Guyanese, are NOT indigenous to Guyana</b>

i know little really of the ACDA activities of Eric Phillips . . . i know a bit more of his professional career in the USA and South Africa

it would be appreciated if you could point me to his writings where it is opined for whatever reason that Guyana is an African natural possession

i do recall reading somewhere about him signing on to some nonsense about pre-historic Africans in South America . . . as if such is material to the discussion of tribal land claims

and i have no idea what an "ancestral" land claim means in the Guyana context

put this in your Google search for all he said on the matter at SN (minus the angle brackets)  < inurl:stabroeknews.com "eric phillips" in text "indigenous" > for the relevant document by him. I do not remember the title of his letter but the above should find it. 

 

Amerindians were not the first people on the continent

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2...st-people-continent/

Dear Editor

M Maxwell is not a real person. He is not in Gecom’s database. This prominent lawyer/professional is well known to us. His most recent intervention was his argument that the APNU is abusing the Cummingsburg Accord. If newspaper editors continue to print his letters, fully knowing no such person exists, I would recommend they read the proposed cybercrime law about the media “knowing, printing false things”. In any case, I will respond to him the next time using his real name.

History has recorded that enslaved Africans arrived in Guyana in the mid-17th century and were in Guyana for 100 to 200 years before the Wai Wai and Wapishana nations. They also cleared 15,000 square miles or 18% of Guyana and lost 450,000 lives to genocide during this criminal enslavement. The question being asked in my letter was why shouldn’t Africans be given lands in Guyana for reparatory justice for the crimes against humanity against them, as has been the moral and legal precedent in over 20 cases globally. I also stated the Government of Guyana, in the quest for social cohesion (economic justice), should immediately halt all other land leases beyond the current land titling exercise of 13.8% for Amerindians, until African land justice is addressed.

Captured and enslaved Africans built Guyana. They cleared, drained and reclaimed 15,000 square miles of forest and swamps (18% of Guyana). Africans installed 2,580,000 miles of drainage canals, trenches and inter-bed drains; 3,500 miles of dams, roads and footpaths, and 2,176 miles of sea and river defence. The Venn Commission also reported that “to build the coastal plantation alone, a value of 100,000,000 tons of earth had to be moved by the hands of Africans. This is factual. And there needs to be reparatory justice for this.

Chinese and Indian foreign companies have received hundreds of thousands of hectares of land from the last PPP government at the unacceptable price of US$12½ cents per hectare for 50 to 99 years while Africans were being denied lands. Mr Maxwell has hidden from addressing these historical facts and acts as if he is a politician in a law court.

Now to the matters the Mr Maxwell has raised. His first issue is similar to that raised by Paul Chekema in his letter in the Guyana Times entitled ‘Eric Phillips has offended the Guyanese Indigenous People’. Mr Chekema claims, “The Wai Wais like all indigenous peoples have been nomadic peoples before settling in the land which is now known as Guyana. As such, the entire South America belongs to us, and the national boundaries which created Guyana have not stopped us even now from engaging in cross-border activities with our brothers and sisters in Brazil”. Mr Maxwell seems to take the same position that the Indigenous People came first and own all of Guyana (and South America). This assertion and lack of logic make us understand his arguments are not based on scholarship. Most of the criticism from the few in denial seems to result from my exposure of the inconvenient truth hidden from our history books that 3 tribes who live in Guyana have, along with the other nations, already received some 13.8% of Guyana by law, and they came here 100 to 200 years after Africans. No one, including Mr Maxwell has disputed this historical fact. Also, Mr Maxwell says I am against Amerindians having 13.8 % of Guyana. This is not true. I congratulated both the Government of Guyana and the 9 Amerindian nations for this 50th anniversary accomplishment.

Mr Maxwell speaks about Amerindians being the first.

But were he to read Guyanese born Ivan van Sertima’s book They came before Columbus, he would know Europeans were the last to arrive here. Secondly, were he to read the epic story The Journey of Man by renowned American scientist Spencer Wells who proved by genetic analysis Africans were the first people on Earth, and first in India, and first in China, and first in Australia, and first  in the Americas., including Brazil and the USA, he would be more balanced. Everyone is genetically African.

Finally, if both Mr Chekema and Mr Maxwell were to google the name Luzia, they may find that this was the name given to the “Negroid” skeleton found in Brazil in 1995 that proved another people were here before the Amerindians.

According to the New York Times, 1995, Dr Walter Neves, an anthropologist at the University of São Paulo said, ‘’We can no longer say that the first colonizers of the Americas came from the north of Asia, as previous models have proposed… This skeleton is nearly 2,000 years older than any skeleton ever found in the Americas, and it does not look like those of Amerindians or North Asians.”

However, with the logic of both Messrs Maxwell and Chekema, Africans should own the entire world, as they were on the Earth first.

Next, Mr Maxwell shows his colonial love of Europeans by stating, “Every ethnic group contributed significantly in their own way in the time they were here. Africans included.

Some provided hard labour, others provided wealth and capital, trade, skills and entrepreneurship. The Europeans designed the waterways, dams, roads, etc, that African labour built. Indentured servants built anew, expanded, rebuilt or maintained for decades”.

Slavery was a criminal enterprise according to international law. The Europeans and their governments became criminally enriched from killing enslaved Africans and plundering land that was not theirs. They implemented the genocide of a large number of the enslaved. They raped enslaved women and girls millions of times. They branded millions of men, women and children with hot irons. Is this the European contribution Mr Maxwell speaks so proudly of? The wealth they took from the Caribbean to build Europe was in today’s jargon blood money.

Next, Mr Maxwell shows his further disdain for Africans in Guyana by asking pseudo-intellectual Darwinism type questions such as “what would Africans do with the land if they received it?” “What about mixed people who are African?” “What about those Africans in the diaspora?” etc, etc. Strangely, he has never asked these questions of Amerindians who already have 13.8% percent of Guyana and especially of the latest additional Wapishana claim for an extension of their land.

Yours faithfully,
Eric M Phillips

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

D2 Is this the letter ?

What a load of hog wash, that is warping history.

KP seems to get annoyed or angry very easily. Why is he so irritable?

Mitwah posted:

KP seems to get annoyed or angry very easily. Why is he so irritable?

I am not angry or irritable, we reward writers who manipulate historical facts whenever their articles are posted. 

D2 posted:

Ronan posted: 

i know little really of the ACDA activities of Eric Phillips . . . i know a bit more of his professional career in the USA and South Africa

it would be appreciated if you could point me to his writings where it is opined for whatever reason that Guyana is an African natural possession

i do recall reading somewhere about him signing on to some nonsense about pre-historic Africans in South America . . . as if such is material to the discussion of tribal land claims

and i have no idea what an "ancestral" land claim means in the Guyana context

<b>look, Afro-Guyanese, like Indo-Guyanese, are NOT indigenous to Guyana</b>

put this in your Google search for all he said on the matter at SN (minus the angle brackets)  < inurl:stabroeknews.com "eric phillips" in text "indigenous" > for the relevant document by him. I do not remember the title of his letter but the above should find it. 

Amerindians were not the first people on the continent

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2...st-people-continent/

[thanks Django]

@D2

to the extent that this is the Eric Phillips letter you pointed to, i fail to see support therein for the assertion that he claims Guyana as a natural African possession

in fact, i am familiar with this piece of correspondence to Stabroek News and that is partly the reason i adverted to his "nonsense" positions regarding African indigeneity to the Americas

ronan posted:

D2 posted 

look, Afro-Guyanese, like Indo-Guyanese, are NOT indigenous to Guyana

i know little really of the ACDA activities of Eric Phillips . . . i know a bit more of his professional career in the USA and South Africa

it would be appreciated if you could point me to his writings where it is opined for whatever reason that Guyana is an African natural possession

i do recall reading somewhere about him signing on to some nonsense about pre-historic Africans in South America . . . as if such is material to the discussion of tribal land claims

and i have no idea what an "ancestral" land claim means in the Guyana context

The reality is that no one is indigenous to Guyana.  Even many of the existing Amerindian groups fled there attempting to escape Portuguese and Spanish colonizers.  

I don't know that Amerindians as a group have any specific access to lands because they are Amerindians. Maybe certain specific communities have it because they don't have traditional western based land titles. 

And yes there are issues specific to certain black villages in Guyana where individual titles don't exist as this was communally acquired lands.  But I as a descendant of people who established BV and Victoria don't plan to go to those villages demanding my share.  Nor will I demand compensation.

So in fact no ethnic group is entitled to land by virtue of being a member of that ethnic group. I suspect that the thousands of Amerindians who live on the coast might be shocked to know that they "own" land any where because they happen to be of that ethnic group.

Prashad posted:

.

Prashad has no time to read about Sydney Poitier.  T

And where is Prashad's Indian wife?

Labba posted:

 

Me read de document 20 years ago. Meh honestly cyant remember Dev saying what de Kean Gibsonite CaribJ seh. But yuh D2 is much respected here. If yuh seh so, me would believe.

Given that your views of blacks mirror those of Ravi Dev I can see why you didn't notice.

ronan posted:

 

to the extent that this is the Eric Phillips letter you pointed to, i fail to see support therein for the assertion that he claims Guyana as a natural African possession

in fact, i am familiar with this piece of correspondence to Stabroek News and that is partly the reason i adverted to his "nonsense" positions regarding African indigeneity to the Americas

I think that he bases his claim on the notion of reparatory justice.  He does so with a tribal notion of who Afro Guyanese are. He doesn't identify what particular stretches of land will be suitable. Would the lands surrounding the New River suffice, a region where I don't think even Amerindians lived within recorded history?

Does he suggest that Afro Guyanese want to be given massive tracks of land, especially as most have seen agriculture as a gateway to poverty? Which is why many left farming several generations ago.  Are Afro Guyanese interested in returning to farming, or does this upper middle class urban white collar professional wish that they should be?

I will not even get into a narrative about whether people from sub Saharan Africa arrived before those who came over the Bering Straits or via the Pacific.  What is relevant is that the first to arrive in Guyana were peoples coming in from the Orinoco and Amazon basins. This was a fluid group, some succumbing to European diseases and replaced by later arrivals.   Others being displaced by more aggressive Amerindian groups, such as those connected to the Caribs.

At this point arguing about arrival dates of specific groups makes no sense.  Do any of us argue that our kids who are born in the USA ought to have fewer rights than does a black American whose ancestors might have arrived as early as 1620 and most assuredly before 1807?

caribny posted:

ronan posted:

 

to the extent that this is the Eric Phillips letter you pointed to, i fail to see support therein for the assertion that he claims Guyana as a natural African possession

in fact, i am familiar with this piece of correspondence to Stabroek News and that is partly the reason i adverted to his "nonsense" positions regarding African indigeneity to the Americas

I think that he bases his claim on the notion of reparatory justice.  He does so with a tribal notion of who Afro Guyanese are. He doesn't identify what particular stretches of land will be suitable. Would the lands surrounding the New River suffice, a region where I don't think even Amerindians lived within recorded history?

Does he suggest that Afro Guyanese want to be given massive tracks of land, especially as most have seen agriculture as a gateway to poverty? Which is why many left farming several generations ago.  Are Afro Guyanese interested in returning to farming, or does this upper middle class urban white collar professional wish that they should be?

I will not even get into a narrative about whether people from sub Saharan Africa arrived before those who came over the Bering Straits or via the Pacific.  What is relevant is that the first to arrive in Guyana were peoples coming in from the Orinoco and Amazon basins. This was a fluid group, some succumbing to European diseases and replaced by later arrivals.   Others being displaced by more aggressive Amerindian groups, such as those connected to the Caribs.

At this point arguing about arrival dates of specific groups makes no sense.  Do any of us argue that our kids who are born in the USA ought to have fewer rights than does a black American whose ancestors might have arrived as early as 1620 and most assuredly before 1807?

the claim of Guyana as a Natural African Possession is an ocean apart from a claim for African Reparatory Justice

ronan posted:

caribny posted:

ronan posted:

 

to the extent that this is the Eric Phillips letter you pointed to, i fail to see support therein for the assertion that he claims Guyana as a natural African possession

in fact, i am familiar with this piece of correspondence to Stabroek News and that is partly the reason i adverted to his "nonsense" positions regarding African indigeneity to the Americas

I think that he bases his claim on the notion of reparatory justice.  He does so with a tribal notion of who Afro Guyanese are. He doesn't identify what particular stretches of land will be suitable. Would the lands surrounding the New River suffice, a region where I don't think even Amerindians lived within recorded history?

Does he suggest that Afro Guyanese want to be given massive tracks of land, especially as most have seen agriculture as a gateway to poverty? Which is why many left farming several generations ago.  Are Afro Guyanese interested in returning to farming, or does this upper middle class urban white collar professional wish that they should be?

I will not even get into a narrative about whether people from sub Saharan Africa arrived before those who came over the Bering Straits or via the Pacific.  What is relevant is that the first to arrive in Guyana were peoples coming in from the Orinoco and Amazon basins. This was a fluid group, some succumbing to European diseases and replaced by later arrivals.   Others being displaced by more aggressive Amerindian groups, such as those connected to the Caribs.

At this point arguing about arrival dates of specific groups makes no sense.  Do any of us argue that our kids who are born in the USA ought to have fewer rights than does a black American whose ancestors might have arrived as early as 1620 and most assuredly before 1807?

the claim of Guyana as a Natural African Possession is an ocean apart from a claim for African Reparatory Justice

If you read the arguments I have with him you would get his mind set. I do not care to expand. The man thinks himself a mental giant but he is a stunted and confused nit. I do not care to discuss him. I do that enough with him whenever I can.

Iguana posted:

Keffer posted:

Iguana posted:

Keffer posted:

Mitwah posted:

Prash sounds like him a lot.

Oh No ! Prash is harmless; all talk and no action !

Why don't you just admit you created the alias "prashad" so you can talk shit and fight with yourself all day? You and he are one and the same or you are lovers. The drama is never ending.

If you were close to me I would have driven my boot up your ass for making such an asinine assumption ! Is it a measure of your intelligence (or lack thereof) that you are unable to differentiate between my writing and that of Prash ?

First of all, you don't wear boots. You wear sandals. More comfortable in the sand and mud of them poor ass Arab countries you travel to fuh pick fare wid man. So shut da fck up.

"prashad" is a creation of yours to push yuh racist indian agenda wid much talk about "color". You is de straight man, he is de clown. But both "alyuh" agree segregation is right fuh Guyana. You are KNOWN clown!

Dummy, get some meds to control your weirdo imagination ! Which Arab countries have you been to, K-K-Hole ?? 

Keffer posted:

Dummy, get some meds to control your weirdo imagination ! Which Arab countries have you been to, K-K-Hole ?? 

NONE, thank goodness. Banna, cure yuh bitterness wid wan stick of dynamite in yuh beetie and do we all a favor. Enjoy yuh virgins!

Iguana posted:

Keffer posted:

Dummy, get some meds to control your weirdo imagination ! Which Arab countries have you been to, K-K-Hole ?? 

NONE, thank goodness. Banna, cure yuh bitterness wid wan stick of dynamite in yuh beetie and do we all a favor. Enjoy yuh virgins!

Bitterness ?? I am quite pleased that I have an opportunity to help those  who need assistance. I run into ass-holes like you every so often; I feel sorry for such degenerate shitheads because the creator made such an error when he was making your kind !!