White Europeans are Immigrants NOT Hispanic and Middle Eastern and other non whites, according to Bannon, Trump and Milo. The same way Afro Obama was not their President!!!!!!!!!!

Illegal immigrants.

It seems that the word "immigrant" is now used to mean "illegal immigrants" and thus all are blamed by a large segment of the American population. Furthermore, it seems that all people of colour, identifiable minority have all become immigrants even though many are native born Americans.

Suddenly, instead of viewing immigrants as useful, consumers, adding to GDP, etc., the good possibilities, by many they are viewed as free loaders, criminals, terrorists. They are coloured by the few, yes, the small percentage of immigrants who break the law and/or are free loaders. Now, even some of those who should know better see immigrants as stealing America and when they demonstrate against injustice or for their rights guaranteed under the constitution, they are viewed as being "trouble makers" and are told to be grateful they were given the right to live in the great USA, that if they do not like the dilution of their rights, go back from where they came. 

Too often we allow statements that bother us to go unchallenged. I am one of the worst for this because of the limited time I have to spend spend on this site. We need to bring greater specificity to this debate, and force those who misrepresent the facts or use vagueness  to misrepresent the situation, or paint every immigrant with the same brush or to hide their vile biases to start thinking about what they put forth. We need to name their statements for what they are because America professes to be the ideal of democracy of personal freedom, of the dream of economic advancement, of the great possibilities of the human spirit.

"America professes to be the ideal of democracy of personal freedom, of the dream of economic advancement, of the great possibilities of the human spirit."

Great post Zed,

I would like to add "Liberty" which have a significant meaning and is enshrined in the US Constitution.

Good clarification there Zed. The media and the Democrats are creating unnecessary fear among immigrants.  Only a small portion of immigrants are targeted.  Trump has made it clear who are the ones he is targeting. The good, law abiding immigrants who are citizens of America have nothing to fear.  

I am painting today so do not have lots of time to follow up.

"The good law abiding immigrants who are citizens of America" please clarify. I hope that this include those who have green cards. What of those are there legally to work or study? Are they included in this category you determined? What if refugees? Do they have any reason to fear? Are their right defined under international conventions or just By American laws?

it started in the primaries when Trump made some troubling statements, acts of commission and acts of omission. Now, he cannot disclaim responsibility. He is blaming the messenger instead of looking at the monster he has created and at himself. I see even correspondents from Fox NEws are starting to express concerns about his attack on the media

I do not think that the fear is un-necessary. The memo sent out indicated that they were widening the scope of the campaign. Identifiable minorities regardless of whether they are native born, legal or illegal immigrants are being treated as second class because they are more prone to being stopped and questioned about their immigration status.

Nor do I think that the fear is being created by the democrats and the media. You are implying that those demonstrating do not have the mental ability to determine what is in their interest, to make informed decisions. Trump cannot have it both ways - complaining about leaks when it is reported and calling the media fake news.  I think that blaming the democrats for this is incorrect. Many of those who are demonstrating are not democrats. In fact, some voted for Trump and now wished that they did not.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Good clarification there Zed. The media and the Democrats are creating unnecessary fear among immigrants.  Only a small portion of immigrants are targeted.  Trump has made it clear who are the ones he is targeting. The good, law abiding immigrants who are citizens of America have nothing to fear.  

Sorry gyal Bibi. I beg to disagree with you. I have made a copy of my passport biographic page and keep it in my car. Here is my reasoning: If I am stopped and asked if I have papers, I might want to ask the officer as to why I need papers to live in my own country. This might get me arrested and would put my family through a whole load of stress. I will be stopped one day and asked for my papers as long as we have a looney in the WH. We will be profiled.

Trump has made immigrants a bad word in the US

skeldon_man posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Good clarification there Zed. The media and the Democrats are creating unnecessary fear among immigrants.  Only a small portion of immigrants are targeted.  Trump has made it clear who are the ones he is targeting. The good, law abiding immigrants who are citizens of America have nothing to fear.  

Sorry gyal Bibi. I beg to disagree with you. I have made a copy of my passport biographic page and keep it in my car. Here is my reasoning: If I am stopped and asked if I have papers, I might want to ask the officer as to why I need papers to live in my own country. This might get me arrested and would put my family through a whole load of stress. I will be stopped one day and asked for my papers as long as we have a looney in the WH. We will be profiled.

Who will stop you and why? Do you know of anyone who has been stopped by an immigration officer? 

Zed posted:

I am painting today so do not have lots of time to follow up.

"The good law abiding immigrants who are citizens of America" please clarify. I hope that this include those who have green cards. What of those are there legally to work or study? Are they included in this category you determined? What if refugees? Do they have any reason to fear? Are their right defined under international conventions or just By American laws?

it started in the primaries when Trump made some troubling statements, acts of commission and acts of omission. Now, he cannot disclaim responsibility. He is blaming the messenger instead of looking at the monster he has created and at himself. I see even correspondents from Fox NEws are starting to express concerns about his attack on the media

I do not think that the fear is un-necessary. The memo sent out indicated that they were widening the scope of the campaign. Identifiable minorities regardless of whether they are native born, legal or illegal immigrants are being treated as second class because they are more prone to being stopped and questioned about their immigration status.

Nor do I think that the fear is being created by the democrats and the media. You are implying that those demonstrating do not have the mental ability to determine what is in their interest, to make informed decisions. Trump cannot have it both ways - complaining about leaks when it is reported and calling the media fake news.  I think that blaming the democrats for this is incorrect. Many of those who are demonstrating are not democrats. In fact, some voted for Trump and now wished that they did not.

 

The protests in New York are organized by this man who is seeking re-election in November.  He is counting on the immigrant votes as he does not get along with the Governor or New York or the President of the United States.  He is a Democrat and Chief Fear Monger Extraordinaire!

February 20, 2017 | 5:17am | Updated February 20, 2017 | 5:43am

 

Bill de Blasio speaks during a protest in solidarity with American Muslims Getty Images

Is he not currently a city official? Does he not have a right to represent sections of the populace when he sees the need to. If you want to question his motive.. what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Why not question the motive of Paul Ryan and others who opposed and criticized Trump in the primaries , after the primaries and are now lying  down like prostitutes. 

You may want to consider complementary of interests instead of crass deterministic monolithic motives. The same argument could be used for Trump at his recent rally and the talking heads sent to the news circuit to defend Trump. 

And yes, I know people have been stopped and questioned by immigration officers even though they are native born American citizens. And the only distinguishing feature they have is that they are brown skinned.

The funny thing is most of the drum beaters for from parts of America that doesn't produce it's wealth. They are folks in middle America who see s mobile home as a luxury. They didn't make America great and they couldn't if it was up to them. The only thing they can do is make America white. And Christian.

Zed posted:

Is he not currently a city official? Does he not have a right to represent sections of the populace when he sees the need to. If you want to question his motive.. what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Why not question the motive of Paul Ryan and others who opposed and criticized Trump in the primaries , after the primaries and are now lying  down like prostitutes. 

You may want to consider complementary of interests instead of crass deterministic monolithic motives. The same argument could be used for Trump at his recent rally and the talking heads sent to the news circuit to defend Trump. 

And yes, I know people have been stopped and questioned by immigration officers even though they are native born American citizens. And the only distinguishing feature they have is that they are brown skinned.

If you think de Blasio is in love with Muslim people, you better think again.  These protests are his personal war against Trump.  He is using them as pawns in his dirty game of chess.

Watch him get voted out in November, and none other than the other Democrat, Gov. Cuomo will get him out of there.  Cuomo already has 3,000 state trooper cars parading around NYC as he states that de Blasio is not capable of reducing crime.  And Cuomo is right!!

ny1.com news

State Police are now regularly patrolling some bridges and tunnels in the city — and drivers are feeling the pinch. NY1 has learned that state Troopers and MTA cops have issued drivers more than 5,000 tickets in the city so far this year. That is many times the usual number. Criminal Justice Reporter Dean Meminger hits the highway for this exclusive story.

It's not your usual sighting of cops in the city. These are State police — out in full force.

One area, along the Henry Hudson Parkway in the Bronx and Manhattan, night and day for several weeks they have been pulling cars over.

We've obtained the numbers, and they are astounding. State troopers write an average of 50 tickets a year in the city. But already this year, they've written more than 3,000 tickets. 

Police who work for the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority — part of the MTA — a state agency, have written another 2,200 tickets since January 1, 2017.

Many of the tickets are for toll evasion, but drivers complain they are also being cited for violations like broken taillights.

Assemblyman Jeffrey Dinowitz represents Riverdale, on the Bronx side of the Henry Hudson Bridge.

"If we had extra police in our area to make the neighborhood safer, fight crime," said Assemblyman Dinowitz. "People would probably be happy with it. But the people who have reached out to me are not happy they have seen state troopers and TBTA police because it appears to them their only purpose there is to give out tickets."

The ticket blitz follows Governor Cuomo's said state troopers would be posted at TBTA bridges and tunnels to help with the transition to cashless tolls, and to help the city with counterterrorism efforts.

Some saw the deployment as another slap at Mayor de Blasio in their cold war. 

State police deny any hidden motive. Officials say the crackdown has snagged bigtime toll evaders, including 47 deadbeats who collectively owe $250,000.

Gonzalez was stopped after the automatic license plate readers in the cashless toll system alerted cops his registration was expired because of unpaid tolls.

"It shows you haven't paid 177 tolls," he said. "Which is ridiculous because I paid close to two thousand dollars to clean that up."

Gonzalez says he didn't know what kind of police were stopping him. A part of the confusion, TBTA police recently started driving around in dark blue cars, just like state troopers do.

Both have the authority to conduct traffic stops wherever they see violations.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

skeldon_man posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Good clarification there Zed. The media and the Democrats are creating unnecessary fear among immigrants.  Only a small portion of immigrants are targeted.  Trump has made it clear who are the ones he is targeting. The good, law abiding immigrants who are citizens of America have nothing to fear.  

Sorry gyal Bibi. I beg to disagree with you. I have made a copy of my passport biographic page and keep it in my car. Here is my reasoning: If I am stopped and asked if I have papers, I might want to ask the officer as to why I need papers to live in my own country. This might get me arrested and would put my family through a whole load of stress. I will be stopped one day and asked for my papers as long as we have a looney in the WH. We will be profiled.

Who will stop you and why? Do you know of anyone who has been stopped by an immigration officer? 

Who is stopping the Latinos? Lately I have seen police cars staking out some apartment buildings where the population there is predominantly Spanish people. Want to tell me ICE is not around the corner? I have seen ICE taking Latinos into custody before. Gyal, immigration officers mostly work in the office these days. The foot work is done by ICE and the police.

Sorry I meant ICE or whomever is picking up people.  So are these Latinos taken illegally?  Personally I have not seen this or know of anyone who has seen this.  There are millions of illegal people going about their business as usual. 

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Zed posted:

I am painting today so do not have lots of time to follow up.

"The good law abiding immigrants who are citizens of America" please clarify. I hope that this include those who have green cards. What of those are there legally to work or study? Are they included in this category you determined? What if refugees? Do they have any reason to fear? Are their right defined under international conventions or just By American laws?

it started in the primaries when Trump made some troubling statements, acts of commission and acts of omission. Now, he cannot disclaim responsibility. He is blaming the messenger instead of looking at the monster he has created and at himself. I see even correspondents from Fox NEws are starting to express concerns about his attack on the media

I do not think that the fear is un-necessary. The memo sent out indicated that they were widening the scope of the campaign. Identifiable minorities regardless of whether they are native born, legal or illegal immigrants are being treated as second class because they are more prone to being stopped and questioned about their immigration status.

Nor do I think that the fear is being created by the democrats and the media. You are implying that those demonstrating do not have the mental ability to determine what is in their interest, to make informed decisions. Trump cannot have it both ways - complaining about leaks when it is reported and calling the media fake news.  I think that blaming the democrats for this is incorrect. Many of those who are demonstrating are not democrats. In fact, some voted for Trump and now wished that they did not.

 

The protests in New York are organized by this man who is seeking re-election in November.  He is counting on the immigrant votes as he does not get along with the Governor or New York or the President of the United States.  He is a Democrat and Chief Fear Monger Extraordinaire!

February 20, 2017 | 5:17am | Updated February 20, 2017 | 5:43am

 

 

Bill de Blasio speaks during a protest in solidarity with American Muslims Getty Images

Some 2,000 people protested President Trump’s travel ban Sunday at a Times Square rally that featured Mayor de Blasio, hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons, and Chelsea Clinton.

The “Today, I Am a Muslim Too” rally took direct aim at Trump voters in middle America who Simmons hopes will “question their government.”

“We are here to show middle America our beautiful signs and, through our beautiful actions and intentions, that they have been misled,” he said. “They’ll see our rally; they’ll question their government.”

 

I am certain when the rednecks sees that photo, it boils their blood. Why doesn't those colored fools get on wid their lives rather than trying to whip white ppl. 

Blasted bullies. They muss be after some freeness. Wherever dey come from, they couldn't build their country. Now that they have an already made country, they are going to ***k it up, by dissension resulting in anarchy and possibly escalated civil disorder. Just like where they immigrated from. Maybe America will be the new Middle-East. Rubbles everywhere. Trump must round them up. And soon.

For all these years(over 200) America was considered a Leader, was looked up to, NOW America is scorn, questioned and alarming.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Sorry I meant ICE or whomever is picking up people.  So are these Latinos taken illegally?  Personally I have not seen this or know of anyone who has seen this.  There are millions of illegal people going about their business as usual. 

Not these days gyal. Lots of illegals are taking two steps and looking behind to see who's following. What is most disturbing to me is tearing apart families..taking the mother and father away from their teenage children. The sister or brother has to raise his/her brothers and sisters. The same idea white Americans are bitching about, children raising children. Yet they unleash their terror on these unfortunate kids. GOD please help these kids and families. Being poor is not a crime, trying to make a living peacefully is not a crime either. If these were crimes, most of us would not live this life we do now.

Nehru posted:

For all these years(over 200) America was considered a Leader, was looked up to, NOW America is scorn, questioned and alarming.

Maybe because of too many colored immigrants who refused to be assimilated. So, there are communities upon communities living in America. Each employing their own kind, doing business the un-American way and possibly avoiding taxation. All of those, contributes to a declining country. Most immigrants to America probably avoided paying taxes towards their undeveloped previous abode.

These people wants a segregated America. Imagine, they think that 15 million illegals is okay. That is a sure way to frigg up the country. People who live on very little comes to America and wants to live the same way.

What will that do for the country. People with no purpose will not ssustain the powerhouse of America. 

Seugy Boy I am not going to argue with you but ALL the Immigrants I know are Bussing Dem tail for a better life for themselves and family, they ALL want the American dream.

skeldon_man posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Sorry I meant ICE or whomever is picking up people.  So are these Latinos taken illegally?  Personally I have not seen this or know of anyone who has seen this.  There are millions of illegal people going about their business as usual. 

Not these days gyal. Lots of illegals are taking two steps and looking behind to see who's following. What is most disturbing to me is tearing apart families..taking the mother and father away from their teenage children. The sister or brother has to raise his/her brothers and sisters. The same idea white Americans are bitching about, children raising children. Yet they unleash their terror on these unfortunate kids. GOD please help these kids and families. Being poor is not a crime, trying to make a living peacefully is not a crime either. If these were crimes, most of us would not live this life we do now.

Fair enough.  But name me an instance where families were torn apart.  What terror is being unleashed?  Please give me names and examples.

What Seignet has posted is a good example of the unsubstantiated claims of immigrants wanting a segregated America, of being a liability instead of an asset. Maybe he needs to look at the studies that indicate that immigrants have a net increase on GDP. Let him post the evidence to support this claim. He needs to define what he means by the"un American way of doing business". Please tell us what percentage of immigrants have no purpose and please cite the source. I will not allow you alternate facts!

If if he does some research GE will understand that integration starts in the second generation at latest. Also, this is not a phenomenon just among identifiable minorities. There were for many years, Jewish enclaves, Irish enclaves. Italian enclaves, Polish  enclaves, etc. 

I am unsure what you refer when you state that "people who lived on very little comes to America and want to live the same way." If you mean being frugal, what is wrong about that. They do not have a sense of entitlement like so many Americans so they are prepared to save. Develop themselves and their family educationally and financially. Is that not the American way. What is stated on the Statue of Liberty.? Is that not how thevEast Indians who came to Guyana as indentured immigrants made economic progress?

Bibi, just google it. I did. 

Zed posted:

What Seignet has posted is a good example of the unsubstantiated claims of immigrants wanting a segregated America, of being a liability instead of an asset. Maybe he needs to look at the studies that indicate that immigrants have a net increase on GDP. Let him post the evidence to support this claim. He needs to define what he means by the"un American way of doing business". Please tell us what percentage of immigrants have no purpose and please cite the source. I will not allow you alternate facts!

If if he does some research GE will understand that integration starts in the second generation at latest. Also, this is not a phenomenon just among identifiable minorities. There were for many years, Jewish enclaves, Irish enclaves. Italian enclaves, Polish  enclaves, etc. 

I am unsure what you refer when you state that "people who lived on very little comes to America and want to live the same way." If you mean being frugal, what is wrong about that. They do not have a sense of entitlement like so many Americans so they are prepared to save. Develop themselves and their family educationally and financially. Is that not the American way. What is stated on the Statue of Liberty.? Is that not how thevEast Indians who came to Guyana as indentured immigrants made economic progress?

But where is the American govt going to find the money to sustain this steady inflow of illegal immigrants?  Right now there are 12 - 15 million illegals who don't have medical insurance, who send their kids to schools, etc.  The American taxpayer is paying for this.  How can this be fair?  How much longer can this go on?  American is over 3 trillion dollars in debt to China alone.  Trump has to figure out how to pay that back.

It depends from where you start. If you assume that these 12 - 15 million illegals play no useful economic role in the economy and just leach off the system that legal immigrants and Americans pay into, then you will view them as a problem, a concern regarding sustainability of services, taxation levels, etc. If you start from the position that the vast majority of these illegal immigrants provide a useful economic function in the economy, then you will have to accept that the wages they earn, even if under the table, make their families and them consumers of goods and services in the monetary economy, that they add to GDP and thus contribute positively to tax revenues either directly or indirectly and thus help to fund services they might not be entitled to because they are illegal or fund services that their family and them use.

yes, the level of illegals in the US should be a concern, as it should be for any country. However, to deal with it means that you have to do an indepth analysis of the push and pull factors, their economic contribution to the economy, how it is that they are able to function within the system even though they are illegal, etc. To think that you can deport 12 -15 million illegals is wishful thinking. Until politicians get away from the rhetoric and baiting, the issue will continue to be a hot potato issue, to serve the political purposes of those who want to demonized illegals for their own political purposes.

Trump cannot deport 12 - 15 million illegals.  Some of them are indeed contributing to the underground economy.  But when you do the analysis of what they are contributing to the economy vs. what it is costing the govt to upkeep them, you will see that the govt is losing.

The patients Bill of Rights stipulates that you cannot turn away ANYONE who show up at a hospital for medical care.  So they flock to the emergency rooms and get free healthcare while the taxpayers have to foot their own bill through insurance or cash payments.  On average the wait time in an emergency room at a NY hospital is 3 hours.  Sick people who have medical insurance have to wait in line for those with no insurance ahead of them.  The system is broken.

This is just one example.  The public schools are in chaos.  Most schools are over crowded with illegals and taxpaying citizens all lumped into the same classroom.  This is causing a deterioration in the quality of education.  Many of the kids don't speak English. Some schools keep half day school so that they can accommodate the whole school population.  Half of the kids go morning half day.  The rest go in the afternoon.  John Bowne High school is one such school.  I have a Guyanese friend who is a music teacher there.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

 

The patients Bill of Rights stipulates that you cannot turn away ANYONE who show up at a hospital for medical care.  So they flock to the emergency rooms and get free healthcare while the taxpayers have to foot their own bill through insurance or cash payments.  On average the wait time in an emergency room at a NY hospital is 3 hours.  Sick people who have medical insurance have to wait in line for those with no insurance ahead of them.  The system is broken.

 

That's why Obama wanted to make them legal and also get them on Obamacare, so they can legally put money in the system instead of going to the emergency room.

Prior to Obamacare, lots of legal residents without health insurance would show up in emergency rooms for treatment...the idea behind Obamacare was to stop this practise

Bibi, thanks for agreeing that Trump cannot deport 12-15 million Illegals. But you have not dealt with the issue of the positive economic contributions other than saying if I do the analysis, I will find that it is a negative return. I will appreciate any source you have because what I have seen regarding inpmmigrants is that there is a net positive return.

do not blame the illegals for the quality of health care and education. American education is and has been plagued with many problems and the result has not been good according to the results of the PISA tests. Also, you are aware that there is the system of half day schools in some areas of Guyana. It is a financial issue that political will and good economic understanding can solve. Canada does not have as many illegals yet when one shows up at energency, one might wait for several hours, depending in the severity of one's issue. The triage nurse or medical team decides who gets priority.  

Yes, I agree there will be challenges, but these are not insurmountable if there is the political will.