“good life in a green economy” another mirage by the PNC/AFC

And when will Kari discuss the fact that the PPP targeted Africans when it similarly fired many in 1992, and why it did its best to squeeze out others, when they hit 55, and their replacement was almost always an Indian.

This is the one sided screaming that will NOT lead to ethnic unity.

And this is not the rantings of a few old men either, as NO ONE can argue that the Guyana Times doesn't represent the views of a very powerful buncj of people.

This endless rant of "black man bad, Indians good" must stop.

As to the PPP using Amerindians.  They did NOT make any provision in the budget for those Amerindian party workers (under the guise of community workers).  This was clearly buying votes, and these folks would have been dumped once the election was over.

It is the PPP who wants to wage a war, and use Amerindians as part of their force, as the realize that a diminished Indian population no longer allows this.

Now suppose APNU gets into a full throated scream about how their party supporters were treated by the PPP what will be the result.  As it is full lists of Africans dismissed by the PPP, and the dominance of Indians among the PPP appointees are now being circulated.

BOTH races need to admit their wrongs and figure out a solution.  "Black man bad enrages blacks."  Soon blacks will demand that sugar and rice be treated the same way as the PPP treated bauxite.

DO PEOPLE WANT THAT?

Getting news from that site is akin to be getting news from stormfront. Thise people have become so rabidly racist that each day the find some minute issue to magnify to agitate their ethnic base.

How come when the PPP was thieving the money from what was allocated to health with this crook here it was not a bother in the area of fragmentation? How the hell he got all of this inside deals that now he is filthy rich? These crooks need to be in jail not out here writing agit prop and have a rodent like you suppress your better self to repost it here because you think you can buy political coin. The facility with which the PPP indian contingency here peddle this filth is indicative of who is causing social fragmentation.

And yet the endless "black man a kill ahbe", and "black man bad, Indian good, so black man has to apologize,"  that even so called moderate Indians peddle.  This is not a lunatic fringe.

If it's not, then what is it ?  You trying to use reversed psychology by saying that 'black man  a kill  ahbe' .  Indians are being robbed left right and centre, and black men are being jailed.    

Yes when Indo kills Indo blacks are to blame.  Interesting concept.

caribny, to provide a solution one has to define the problem. One of the stubborn trait you display here is a failure to define the blackman/coolieman issue. By this failure you're forever indicting people who share some of your concerns about Guyana and thus alienating them and worse moving all discussions into an endless dead-end of useless back-and-forth.

No one would look themselves in the face and say that the Jagdeo PPP and the Ramotar's by extension, was not guilty of nepotism and cronyism. This meant that if their friends and family are all Indians and they have some Blacks as "friends" for strategic reasons, then yes, they made appointments and gave contracts that would scream ethnic "cleansing" [the term here is used not in the killing sense but in cleaning positions occupied by Blacks and some token Indians in the previous administrations].

You do not have to ascribe support for racial bias in governance by the PPP to those who state clearly that the Jagdeo PPP must go and who support this coalition government. Look around carefully at who support such a position. For instance, you are correct to not label Jalil as such. So why others who demonstrate like him?

You are obviously blind to those who felt that Janet represented the worst of the type of politician in charge of Guyana. Look back and see who here held that position.

You standing beef is with what is termed an apology to Indians by the PNC and no concomitant call on Indians to so likewise. First of all you fail to note that Indians in Guyana is poorly used in your analysis, because Jagdeo Indians do not speak for Guyanese Indians, much in the same was as Al Qaeda or IS do not speak for Muslims. Secondly, in a marketing move to remake the PNC brand, which obviously is different from the Burnham's brand by acknowledging Burnham's alienation of Indians (yes, he did cause sufferance to Blacks too), you rail that "oh, Blackman bad and Coolie nice".

You are announcing to this Board that you are unfit to engage in political discourse, as the simple act of apologizing for past iterations of the PNC to remove an election negative, does not mean that Indians are not cognitive of Jagdeo's Indians similarity to Burnham's Blacks.

Kari you cannot have your cake and eat it.

The problem is RACIAL when its about why Indians don't trust the African elites.

The problem is RACIAL when the PNC was apologize specifically to Indians (as if Indians are the only ones who suffered).

The problem is RACIAL when you claimed that I didn't understand Indians.

The problem suddenly becomes NOT racial when we look at the behavior of the PPP, and how they almost completely Indianized the leadership structure, as even YOU concede that they did.

The PPP is playing a racial game and they do so because they have the BACKING of the Indian population.  How long will it take before Africans tire of this, and start demanding that APNU responds?

So again "black man bad...so must apologize".  "Indian good, so doesn't have to."

YOU do not want to discuss the role of the Indian elites and how they impacted our ethno political environment.  This is NOT just the PPP, but the behavior of the business elites in terms of their recruiting, and purchasing behavior. 

I should NOT walk into ANY business in G/town and see no blacks in management positions.  You know that this happens.  If Afro Guyanese professionals are good enough to excel in Corporate America, what is the problem in Guyana?

And since you want to know how Africans view the problem.  They see Indians as clannish, as a people who put their ethnicity as Indians ahead of their nationality as Guyanese, thus viewing other ethnic groups only in terms of what they can get out of them. 

I have said this numerous times, as did Danyael.  You are AFRAID to discuss the issue of Indian racism as you are AFRAID of being ostracized by your fellow Indians.

Oh rass dats a long post Kari banna.

It is quite simple. All Carib asks is those such as yourself who should know better not be silent when the creeps here regurgitate their racial shit. There are a few here who do pull these guys up such as Gilly,Jalil and maybe one or two others.

By being silent you are seen as agreeing with the creeps...that's all.

Kari Jagdeo Indians speak for Guyanese Indians.  Why?  In 2015 he waged a campaign so vulgarly racist that even the foreign diplomats had to warn him against this.

The PPP vote peaked in 1997.  It declined in 2001, again in 2006 and yet again in 2011. Then in 2015 the PPP gets 30,000 more votes in the coastal regions?

Sorry Kari but mist thinking people will suggest that when the PPP OPENLY waged a campaign based on racial fear THEY WON THE OVERWHELMING support of Guyanese Indians.

So yes Jagdeo does speak for the VAST MAJORITY of Guyanese Indians who UNCRITICALLY ENDORSED his campaign based on RACIAL FEAR!

To be honest I don't give two hoots about the aunty men here who lust for a huge black lolo followed by a good beat down, so they can scream "black man a beat and rape ahbe".

My concern is when Jagdeo wages a campaign based on the most naked appeals to race, playing on the most vulgar use of stereotypes of blacks, and INCREASES his votes from Indians, Kari, VVO, Chief, VishMahabir and the other so called moderate Indians refuse to speak to the issue.

Danyael gave them an opportunity to speak to the issue.  Some of these characters attacked him as being anti Indian.

Yet Kari will claim that I don't know Indians because I refuse to admit to what they endured under Burnham.  This after redux, itaname, and I all have acknowledged the validity of Indian distrust for blacks.

What is of issue here is that these characters are quick to speak of the PNC or of blacks in general, but say NOTHING about what the PPP and Indians in general ALSO did.

Eusi, tired of the abusive treatment and scapegoating of Africans, wrote a book "No Guilty Race" where he admits to the role of Africans, but also asserts that Indians are NOT innocent in this.

David Hinds has written that he fought for a democrat multi ethnic Guyana, to see that it got an elected Indian dictatorship. He is then called a racist!

We will go no where until the narrative of "black man baad, Indo good, so black man has to apologize" is BLOWN to pieces.

When Kari and Chief said that the PNC should apologize to INDIANS (the same characters will be quick to say that it isn't about race) ,this was an INSULT to blacks, given that the PPP was equally abusive of them as was the PNC towards Indians.

Jalil wrote about black PNC Monkeys, and here is Kari endorsing him.

Jagdeo's words came through.  Indians are being fired left right and centre.

You jackass, where are the jobs that Granger promised.  Where is the better life that Granger promised. 

Jagdeo Indians speak for Guyanese Indians.  Why?  In 2015 he waged a campaign so vulgarly racist that even the foreign diplomats had to warn him against this.

caribny, you've encapsulated the essence of what you seek answered - did Indians vote for the PPP in the last elections in the numbers because (a) Jagdeo vulgarized Blacks, or (b) Jagdeo reminded them of a legitimate fear - rational or irrational?

Answer that question honestly and you will begin to liberate yourself from the racial clap-trap I keep hearing from you.

Cainsta, you're missing the point about the mis-direction play by caribny. It is obvious that the point about Indians on this Board whom you so eloquently categorize as being silent is like a fog over the direction of racial harmony. If Ii were to take both you, Danyael and caribny to your logical conclusions I would be on point in saying you are  fostering racial conflict on this Board.

The problem with the likes of Carib and Yuji is that it always comes down to race. It doesn't matter to these guys that both parties have supporters from all races. I personally learnt from experience that you have to distrust all indos and blacks in Guyana no matter which party they support. Even man#s own wife or husband can't be trusted in Guyana. Dem are hiring hitmen to bump off each other, no matter which race they are from. 

This points to the very real likelihood that the Guyanese gene is bad from birth, no matter what race it is from.

Nah, dem teach their kids to hate Indians from the time they are kids, so it becomes "cultural".

Not sure why BJ had to tell anyone that.  It's was a foregone conclusion that would happen.  But let's be fair, the PPP did not have any significant Afro representation in their Govt so one would have expected this type of reaction from the PNC.  Let's hope Granger can beat back the Caribj faction in the PNC and run a more balanced admin.

Your version don't hold water. The Indos teach their kids to avoid blacks even more so than the other way round. Black guys like indo girls.

Avoid, not cuss and bully around.  The avoidance is the reaction.

First Muslims are world wide and have voice. They are not trapped in a state in adversarial role with another religion. Indians and Blacks are in adversarial roles socially constructed for them over time and calcified in cultural inclusion/exclusion taboos. This is made cruelly obvious at the exercise of power where the state is seen as an ethnic prize and capturing it converts it to an ethnic dominion.

Personally, I do not care who is racist or not as long as there are social and institutional barriers against the racist acting out his prejudices with me as his target.

Socially, Indians have no such taboos. They hate black people in general and the few that do not cannot constrain the majority who are disgustingly crude in all aspects of their social expressions against black and Amerindian people.

On the political level, no constraints exist also and the PPP was able to treat Amerindians as wards of the state and shoot black people at its will with complete quiescence of the Indian population who saw those murdered black folks as deserving to die. That is our dilemma.

To solve it is to acknowledge it and not tolerate it that is why this board  disgustingly facilitates the worse expressions of racism and is anti our need to heal. Its administrators pretense that laissez faire speech is their objective mirrors the society where indians and blacks can be disgustingly abusive to each others and the mediating authority does not intervene.

Yes black people are also disgusting to Indians. They hate indians because they are the object of hate. They do not have any cultural prohibitions to race mixing. They are reactionary against the rabid hate for them and see how that disadvantages them so they are not sympathetic to Indians and develop their own racist venom. We are at a stalemate.

We need intervention at all levels. We need to tell our children the truth that they are not better than any other and not possessed of special smarts that on a normal day there will always be greater and lesser persons of whatever race in their face competing with them and they must not see that as a tragedy. That they do means they are bloody lazy in the first place and want to co opt of fiction.

We need intervention on the level of rules in the society. We need systems that keep racism from being expressed in political circles. That means constitution reform and systems placed directly in the path of racist expressions that could disadvantage others.

I believe that while some people like Jagdeo and his cabal are predisposed to crookedness, our system facilitates crookedness. Left to itself each and every member of the administration will fill their pockets and loot the state. It means I clearly have no faith that whatever government we have will succeed in working within the present framework and not have their government marred by crookedness and ethnic nepotism.

Granger is the first we see that deliberately sets out to break this cycle. To that end one must acknowledge the influence of Moses and Ramjattan. They took the crucial step to mediate our ethnic tensions. It is the reason the other side see them as super villains. They stand in the way of them looting the state as a national ethnic entitlement.

How we progress from here is crucial to where we end up. It means one or three things, stagnation and eternal ethnic struggles, failed state status or national reunification in terms of constitutional change to fabricate institutional barriers against our worse selves.

Shut your old calcified racist behind. Jagdeo is a crook; a vindictive amoral prick who pillaged our state. He lived in a hovel at the beginning of his carreer with as one of his colleague not even a bicycle to his name. 12 years later he is one of the richest guyanese and all of this buddies are also rich having been given access to looted state assets.

Granger cannot give you a better life. You have to make it for yourself. Granger could only level the playing field so a BK or Bobby the Boob or an E Beharry or  the Brazzingtons cannot be the ones taking the gravy and leaving the crumbs. That is what Jagdeo did and so made the nation poor and the rest of us wanting to see his crooked behind in orange someday.

Kari when a patient has cancer, one doesn't not talk about the disease because it will alarm the patient.  One address the problem.

The biggest issue in Guyana is inter ethnic distrust, based on institutional racism (in BOTH the public and private sector).  

YOU demanded that I "understand" the Indian, and why they distrust blacks.  That is legitimate, given the history of Guyana.

When I demand that you RECIPROCATE, then suddenly I am accused of disturbing racial harmony.

So Kari is racial harmony ONLY based on that which makes Indians comfortable.  Or does racial harmony not evolve out of a thorough analysis as to why we have this problem, considering that BOTH groups played a role in this.

.

Clearly YOU feel that racial harmony depends on what Indians think.  In fact you said so when you implied that it is up to blacks to prove to Indians that they can be trusted.  You did NOT say that it is ALSO up to Indians.

You see Guyana through the lens of an Indian, and you NEGATE the rights of Africans.  I will submit to you that until you begin to admit that AFRICANS have the SAME rights as Indians, and that their concerns are EQUALLY valid and deserve EQUAL attention than we get no where.

What I consider odd is I EQUATE African concerns with Indian concerns, and I acknowledge that there are LEGITIMATE reasons for Indians to distrust African dominated rule. You REJECT this.

Now as to the PPP.  In 1997 they received 221k votes, and lost votes in EVERY election up to 2011, when they received a mere 166k.  And yet, when they are MORE discredited than ever they received 202k votes.

The only thing that changed was that Jagdeo launched a vicious war on blacks, and NO ONE IN THE PPP told him that this was WRONG.  They SUPPORTED it, either overtly, or by remaining SILENT.

SILENCE=CONSENT!

Funny thing though is if there is any anti Indian bigot on GNI it is you.  You have said MANY times that the Indians brought to Guyana were low quality trash, and you furnished NO evidence of this.

And that isn't all that you have said that is bigoted about Indians.

Your thinking is very much in line with the African bigots who I know.  The issue though is that African bigots do not have the space to peddle their poison that Indian bigots have. 

You will NOT hear any one within the PNC OPENLY saying the things about Indians, that Jagdeo says about blacks, though he thinks that he disguises his raw bigotry.

Kari and the other "non racist" Indians will have to tackle the bigotry which comes from the HIGHEST ranks of Indian leadership, given that these people command the support of the VAST majority of the Indian population, who say NOTHING against their behavior.

Here is the reality of Guyana.

Indians define themselves primarily by their ethnicity, and this determines who they will engage and how they engage with them. Africans have a much weaker ethnic identity, so have more open boundaries as to who they will engage, and will also be more accepting of mixed marriages, and of people of part African origin. 

If a dougla wishes to self identify as a black that is perfectly possible in Guyana.  A dougla will NEVER be seen as Indian, unless his African ancestry is all but invisible.  In fact I have even heard PPP frauds claiming that Rohee is black, even though it is clear that he does NOT identify with blacks.

I gave an example of a taxi driver, who told me that black airport taxis select when they go to the airport based upon which flight is arriving.  JFK flights and those from the Caribbean are good, as there are large numbers of non Indians.  Toronto us a waste, as it is heavily Indian.

He reported that most Indians will walk passed black taxi men until they find an Indian.  They will only use the black taxi driver if there are no Indians.  Kari can jump and scream, but this DOES impact on how this Afro Guyanese sees Indians, even AFC Indians, who he might think need to be watched.

Non Indians will jump in the first taxi who they see available.

I am not suggesting that Indians do this because they hate blacks, and in fact neither was the black taxi driver.  It is this strong ethnic identification with their own kind, which serves to minimize their engagement with "outsiders".

So we have two major ethnicities.  One ethnic exclusive, and the other very ethnic inclusive, and then we wonder why we have a problem.

The PPP is a SYMPTOM of the problem when it comes to racial disharmony.  Jagdeo can only engage in this behavior if he knows that it will not be opposed by the vast majority of the Indian population.

If it is indeed true that APNU/AFC is engaging in ethnic exclusion (they are definitely excluding any one under 65 y/0) then that is a problem.  But we CANNOT view this in isolation when the PPP DID THE SAME THING, if indeed this is what APNU/AFC is doing.

For some people, you are what you say you are not what you like.

The path to social fragmentation can be reversed if the Government keep their promise to create 50,000 jobs. Social cohesion is impossible without trust.