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Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by baseman:

Baseman was never an admirer of Jagan, he is responsible for the demise of the Indian in Guyana. ...  Uncle Ramo is a good man and a good transition to the next leader, nephew Anil.

 

 

JOKE OF THE DAY.

Base, I have bad news for you. I'm no longer in the PPP but I still have friends there, and we keep in touch. I understand that a number of big PPP players are aware of your nephew Anil's presidential ambitions and they are planning to stop him in his tracks at the most opportune moment. Wait and see. I say no more.

I agree, it is the way of politics and how it is.  I was never in the PPP but know a number of these "big players".  Look how your friends in the AFC all blew themselves apart shooting at each other.  I say no more.

Baseman has a point here, the PPP leadership remains solidly together while the AFC leadership is in shambles, no discipline in the AFC, TK, Gerhard, Sase and all these political opportunist have abandon ship.

 

This always happen to small party.

 

But the worst opportunist was TK, who dumped from 5 parties.

 

When will he jump next and where?

 

Why do you think Granja do not trust him.

FM
Originally Posted by KishanB:

Baseman has a point here, the PPP leadership remains solidly together while the AFC leadership is in shambles, no discipline in the AFC, TK, Gerhard, Sase and all these political opportunist have abandon ship.

 

This always happen to small party.

 

But the worst opportunist was TK, who dumped from 5 parties.

 

When will he jump next and where?

 

Why do you think Granja do not trust him.

It is a truism that an autocratically-run party will have more discipline than one that exercises democracy at every turn. As that sage Donald Rumsfeld once bleated "democracy is messy".

 

R u saying this TK fellah is an athlete - high jump or long jump? or jumping Jack?

Kari
Originally Posted by KishanB:
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by baseman:

Baseman was never an admirer of Jagan, he is responsible for the demise of the Indian in Guyana. ...  Uncle Ramo is a good man and a good transition to the next leader, nephew Anil.

 

 

JOKE OF THE DAY.

Base, I have bad news for you. I'm no longer in the PPP but I still have friends there, and we keep in touch. I understand that a number of big PPP players are aware of your nephew Anil's presidential ambitions and they are planning to stop him in his tracks at the most opportune moment. Wait and see. I say no more.

I agree, it is the way of politics and how it is.  I was never in the PPP but know a number of these "big players".  Look how your friends in the AFC all blew themselves apart shooting at each other.  I say no more.

Baseman has a point here, the PPP leadership remains solidly together while the AFC leadership is in shambles, no discipline in the AFC, TK, Gerhard, Sase and all these political opportunist have abandon ship.

 

This always happen to small party.

 

But the worst opportunist was TK, who dumped from 5 parties.

 

When will he jump next and where?

 

Why do you think Granja do not trust him.

The AFC has always struck me as having many "loose cannon" members doing their own thing with their own agenda under the AFC banner.  This is due to the lack of a strong and commanding leader to "rally the troops".  I remember many official posters on their website posting sheer crap and doing so as reps of the AFC.  It trivialized the message of the party.

 

Guyana is proof of the underdeveloped state of political affairs when people compare to, say the USA politics.  Any political party in Guyana will need an overarching strong leader until it's has matured and developed it's own constituency.  The AFC tried not to be another PPP or PNC not needing a "Jagan or Burnham".  What happened, a lot of political "baracudas" tried to use the platform provided to further their own agendas or a place to grind their own axes.  The result was helter-skelter.

FM
Originally Posted by baseman:

The AFC has always struck me as having many "loose cannon" members doing their own thing with their own agenda under the AFC banner.  This is due to the lack of a strong and commanding leader to "rally the troops".  I remember many official posters on their website posting sheer crap and doing so as reps of the AFC.  It trivialized the message of the party.

 

Guyana is proof of the underdeveloped state of political affairs when people compare to, say the USA politics.  Any political party in Guyana will need an overarching strong leader until it's has matured and developed it's own constituency.  The AFC tried not to be another PPP or PNC not needing a "Jagan or Burnham".  What happened, a lot of political "baracudas" tried to use the platform provided to further their own agendas or a place to grind their own axes.  The result was helter-skelter.

 

Base, Guyana's modern politics were driven by the post-colonial struggles. First it was to be equals under British rule - the vote for women, trade union organizations for labor interests, educational opportunities for those shut out, the removal of religious biases in civil service hiring, etc. This is what drove the Jagan-Burnham PPP. There was literally no political opposition - no D'Aiguir or Balram Singh Rai.

 

Once the British had to give away this colonial possession to the natives then we saw two variants of the old PPP duking it out. Jagan stayed with communist orthodoxy with Democratic Centralism (what a misnomer!), which was really autocratic rule, political parsimony, and keeping everyone in line. The ambitious left - and thus the Burnham's PNC and then the cross-overs by those stronger than those who cowered under Jagan. The same is what we see playing out with the AFC. You can say that the Ranji Chandisinghs, Steve Narains, Halim Majeed's and so on are today's Ramjatan and Moses Nagamootoo.

 

The difference though is that Burnham was an autocrat and used the same organizational structure as the PPP he left - the difference being that he was not beholden to the Moscow axis. The Chinese/No. Korean example presented itself, while the South-South Socialists (the Walter Rodney base) presented a challenge. Burnham wanted to be anti-colonial and thus found it hard to embrace an  Eric Williams-like capitalist course with deals with Demba and Bookers.

 

The AFC is likely to be driven as you say by each own's interest - not unlike the Founding Fathers of the USA. That does not make them weak. Democracy's DNA is dissent. IF you have 100% assent that brings you round to having weaklings like Rohee and Gail ad Donald. The focus of the PPP back then was the anti-colonial goal post (to use a World Cup metaphor), and today's AFC is the anti-hegemonic PPP/PNC. The colonil struggle was against State Capitalism. What is wrong with that?

 

The AFC's is against oligarchic capitalism. The British left a productive infrastructure to wallow and the PNC/PPP is leaving Guyana with a dilapidated economic and productive infrastructure that is missing the  economic gains that other countries are experiencing - a local capital market; technology incubators, modern communications and productive infrastructure.

 

Can you blame the AFC for trying? What about what the PPP is doing that is defensible? Why must Guyanese protect the PPP? From What? THe PNC? That's the red herring. Base, you are archaic in your political thinking. You are a political dinosaur who wants to keep Guyana backward by following the regressive program of this PPP - thief, thief and thief some more while the productive engine gets overcome by weeds and new opportunities go by.

Kari
Originally Posted by Kari:
Originally Posted by baseman:

The AFC has always struck me as having many "loose cannon" members doing their own thing with their own agenda under the AFC banner.  This is due to the lack of a strong and commanding leader to "rally the troops".  I remember many official posters on their website posting sheer crap and doing so as reps of the AFC.  It trivialized the message of the party.

 

Guyana is proof of the underdeveloped state of political affairs when people compare to, say the USA politics.  Any political party in Guyana will need an overarching strong leader until it's has matured and developed it's own constituency.  The AFC tried not to be another PPP or PNC not needing a "Jagan or Burnham".  What happened, a lot of political "baracudas" tried to use the platform provided to further their own agendas or a place to grind their own axes.  The result was helter-skelter.

 

Base, Guyana's modern politics were driven by the post-colonial struggles. First it was to be equals under British rule - the vote for women, trade union organizations for labor interests, educational opportunities for those shut out, the removal of religious biases in civil service hiring, etc. This is what drove the Jagan-Burnham PPP. There was literally no political opposition - no D'Aiguir or Balram Singh Rai.

 

Once the British had to give away this colonial possession to the natives then we saw two variants of the old PPP duking it out. Jagan stayed with communist orthodoxy with Democratic Centralism (what a misnomer!), which was really autocratic rule, political parsimony, and keeping everyone in line. The ambitious left - and thus the Burnham's PNC and then the cross-overs by those stronger than those who cowered under Jagan. The same is what we see playing out with the AFC. You can say that the Ranji Chandisinghs, Steve Narains, Halim Majeed's and so on are today's Ramjatan and Moses Nagamootoo.

 

The difference though is that Burnham was an autocrat and used the same organizational structure as the PPP he left - the difference being that he was not beholden to the Moscow axis. The Chinese/No. Korean example presented itself, while the South-South Socialists (the Walter Rodney base) presented a challenge. Burnham wanted to be anti-colonial and thus found it hard to embrace an  Eric Williams-like capitalist course with deals with Demba and Bookers.

 

The AFC is likely to be driven as you say by each own's interest - not unlike the Founding Fathers of the USA. That does not make them weak. Democracy's DNA is dissent. IF you have 100% assent that brings you round to having weaklings like Rohee and Gail ad Donald. The focus of the PPP back then was the anti-colonial goal post (to use a World Cup metaphor), and today's AFC is the anti-hegemonic PPP/PNC. The colonil struggle was against State Capitalism. What is wrong with that?

 

The AFC's is against oligarchic capitalism. The British left a productive infrastructure to wallow and the PNC/PPP is leaving Guyana with a dilapidated economic and productive infrastructure that is missing the  economic gains that other countries are experiencing - a local capital market; technology incubators, modern communications and productive infrastructure.

 

Can you blame the AFC for trying? What about what the PPP is doing that is defensible? Why must Guyanese protect the PPP? From What? THe PNC? That's the red herring. Base, you are archaic in your political thinking. You are a political dinosaur who wants to keep Guyana backward by following the regressive program of this PPP - thief, thief and thief some more while the productive engine gets overcome by weeds and new opportunities go by.

Kari, I read your piece, good.  I may be "archaic" in my thinking, as you say, but that's the mindset in Guyana.  Race-base insecurity dominates the landscape and the 2011 election proves it out.  2011 has thrown trust 20 years back as Indians were rudely reminded of the intent of the majority Afros.  The "Art Of War" trickery almost worked.  Though you may call it "archaic', bear in mind, the Iraq conflict we see today is caused by one group's dominance over the other, and this divide gos back further than even the history of British Guiana, much less Guyana.

 

So simpleminded and archaic as it sounds, Guyana will have this type of politics until a governing model is developed which guarantees any admin could be voted in and out by the will of the people and the people only.  Until then, sadly, my "archaic" views will be the prevailing view on both sides.

FM

Base, I hear what you're saying and on the face of it your fears are understandable. But knowing what I know about the ordinary peoples of Guyana, and with today's transparency and instant communications, the chances of going back to those days seem like its receding in the rear-view mirror. If you say that the PPP is doing all this thievery and letting the country rot, then the transparency and instant communications I speak about ain't working. then your fear may have some currency - okay the private security guards and free availability of weaponry may make Regent Street-style mo fiah slo fiah a thing of distant past, but who knows what form that type of insecurity may take.

 

It is up to cooler heads to instill in people with the thinking off racial insecurity returning in its manifestations of not so long ago that these fears are so 20th century. And the Putin/Ukraine situation doesn't count as that is internal bookkeeping.

Kari
Originally Posted by Kari:

 

It is up to cooler heads to instill in people with the thinking off racial insecurity

Your seeming refusal to equate African insecurity with Indian insecurity and to understand that they both feed off each other is amazing.

 

You cannot clap with one hand.  Until you factor in African insecurity, instead of assuming that its only Indians who feel wronged, you are wasting your time!

FM
Originally Posted by baseman:

The dynamics of the last election has re-awaken the ethnic insecurity fears in the forward-looking Indo youths.  They thought they had an ally in the forward-looking Afro youth.  They were sadly mistaken.  The Afro youths is firmly in the ideological camp of the likes of Caribj and Redux.

it so sad there is no reality in your fantacy,what a dumb statement  

FM

Ethnic insecurity is biggest headache for Guyana especially for Indo-Guyanese.  At election time who do you fear the most of physically hurting you? The answer is obvious. Indians fear the future and their fear is reflected in how they vote. The party that once governed and oppressed them still have the support of the Afros. There is no movement or debate within the ranks of the PNC to deal with its past or to shape the future with the interests of all ethnic groups in mind. They are only telling Black people that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's.  What kind of message is this? Do Indos feel comfortable and secure with a party that advocate a racial agenda and supports with by heroizing Black murderers and rapists who victimize Indians?

Billy Ram Balgobin
Originally Posted by warrior:
Originally Posted by baseman:

The dynamics of the last election has re-awaken the ethnic insecurity fears in the forward-looking Indo youths.  They thought they had an ally in the forward-looking Afro youth.  They were sadly mistaken.  The Afro youths is firmly in the ideological camp of the likes of Caribj and Redux.

it so sad there is no reality in your fantacy,what a dumb statement  

Dumb nah!

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:

Ethnic insecurity is biggest headache for Guyana especially for Indo-Guyanese.  At election time who do you fear the most of physically hurting you? The answer is obvious. Indians fear the future and their fear is reflected in how they vote. The party that once governed and oppressed them still have the support of the Afros. There is no movement or debate within the ranks of the PNC to deal with its past or to shape the future with the interests of all ethnic groups in mind. They are only telling Black people that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's.  What kind of message is this? Do Indos feel comfortable and secure with a party that advocate a racial agenda and supports with by heroizing Black murderers and rapists who victimize Indians?

The PPP tells Indians that blacks are all lazy, violent and have made no positive contribution to Guyana. 

 

They tell Indians that its "ahbe time now, black man time done".  Any black seeking employment for anything other than a menial job or in the armed services, or as half starved junior civil servants is told " IS not Burnham time now" and are told to leave the premises.

 

 

 

Every time you peddle the nonsense that "black man bad, Indian good, so black man have to apologize" I will reveal you as the racist that you are.

 

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:

Ethnic insecurity is biggest headache for Guyana especially for Indo-Guyanese.  At election time who do you fear the most of physically hurting you? The answer is obvious. Indians fear the future and their fear is reflected in how they vote. The party that once governed and oppressed them still have the support of the Afros. There is no movement or debate within the ranks of the PNC to deal with its past or to shape the future with the interests of all ethnic groups in mind. They are only telling Black people that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's.  What kind of message is this? Do Indos feel comfortable and secure with a party that advocate a racial agenda and supports with by heroizing Black murderers and rapists who victimize Indians?

The PPP tells Indians that blacks are all lazy, violent and have made no positive contribution to Guyana. 

 

They tell Indians that its "ahbe time now, black man time done".  Any black seeking employment for anything other than a menial job or in the armed services, or as half starved junior civil servants is told " IS not Burnham time now" and are told to leave the premises.

 

 

 

Every time you peddle the nonsense that "black man bad, Indian good, so black man have to apologize" I will reveal you as the racist that you are.

 

Most blacks are hardworking people.  Most blacks also want a PNC Govt regardless of their lot.  Few like you are racists but you have great impact.

FM
Originally Posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:

. . . They are only telling Black people that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's.  What kind of message is this? Do Indos feel comfortable and secure with a party that advocate a racial agenda and supports with by heroizing Black murderers and rapists who victimize Indians?

Josef Goebbels would be proud . . .

 

something strange in the air . . . anybody else noticing how the bigot PPP lifers on this BB going all hysterical and losing contact with reality?

 

what's up on Robb Street?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by baseman:
 

Most blacks are hardworking people.  Most blacks also want a PNC Govt regardless of their lot.  Few like you are racists but you have great impact.

Most blacks vote PNC which just shows you that they really resent the PPP.  They have brains and can think for themselves.  It only indicates how racist you are by suggesting that they are stupid people led by others.

 

BOTH Indians and Africans vote their fears of each other, based on REAL experience of the fact that BOTH groups, given the chance, discriminate against each other.

 

Now you can scream that I am a racist, or you can indicate what exactly in the previous paragraph is racist, because this has been my message since I arrived on GNI many years ago.

FM
Originally Posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:

Ethnic insecurity is biggest headache for Guyana especially for Indo-Guyanese.  At election time who do you fear the most of physically hurting you? The answer is obvious. Indians fear the future and their fear is reflected in how they vote. The party that once governed and oppressed them still have the support of the Afros. There is no movement or debate within the ranks of the PNC to deal with its past or to shape the future with the interests of all ethnic groups in mind. They are only telling Black people that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's.  What kind of message is this? Do Indos feel comfortable and secure with a party that advocate a racial agenda and supports with by heroizing Black murderers and rapists who victimize Indians?

Mr TK say etnic security dilemma is economic and both Afros and Indos face same thing. Dont try to make it into Indian only. You will be dishonest like bluff man Mr Ravi Dev.

FM
Originally Posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:

Ethnic insecurity is biggest headache for Guyana especially for Indo-Guyanese... There is no movement or debate within the ranks of the PNC to deal with its past or to shape the future with the interests of all ethnic groups in mind. They are only telling Black people that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's.  What kind of message is this? Do Indos feel comfortable and secure with a party that advocate a racial agenda and supports with by heroizing Black murderers and rapists who victimize Indians?

Billy, you write well but argue badly.

You are an East Indian. How do you know what the PNC is "only telling Black people"?

How and where did you get that information?

If you cannot convince us of the accuracy of your statement that the PNC says "that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's", you will have a big credibility problem.

 

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by baseman:
 

Most blacks are hardworking people.  Most blacks also want a PNC Govt regardless of their lot.  Few like you are racists but you have great impact.

Most blacks vote PNC which just shows you that they really resent the PPP. o.

They voted PNC even when the PNC had the nation, and them in the pits.  Now, go figure.

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by Billy Ram Balgobin:

Ethnic insecurity is biggest headache for Guyana especially for Indo-Guyanese... There is no movement or debate within the ranks of the PNC to deal with its past or to shape the future with the interests of all ethnic groups in mind. They are only telling Black people that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's.  What kind of message is this? Do Indos feel comfortable and secure with a party that advocate a racial agenda and supports with by heroizing Black murderers and rapists who victimize Indians?

Billy, you write well but argue badly.

You are an East Indian. How do you know what the PNC is "only telling Black people"?

How and where did you get that information?

If you cannot convince us of the accuracy of your statement that the PNC says "that Guyana is the house the African built and Guyana is yours and nobody else's", you will have a big credibility problem.

 

I think Billy is a good person. He is probably in his late 60's and early 70's. This is quite evident from his conjectures. He has lost his credibility. Whenever he is asked to furnish proof to support his opinion or insinuations, he runs away for days or weeks. He makes his conclusions or suppositions from evidence insufficient to ensure reliability as seen by his inference above about the Black People.

Mitwah
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by baseman:
 

Most blacks are hardworking people.  Most blacks also want a PNC Govt regardless of their lot.  Few like you are racists but you have great impact.

Most blacks vote PNC which just shows you that they really resent the PPP. o.

They voted PNC even when the PNC had the nation, and them in the pits.  Now, go figure.

Not true because election was rig. we never know how they would vote. also many black people was following Dr Rodney

FM
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by baseman:
 

Most blacks are hardworking people.  Most blacks also want a PNC Govt regardless of their lot.  Few like you are racists but you have great impact.

Most blacks vote PNC which just shows you that they really resent the PPP. o.

They voted PNC even when the PNC had the nation, and them in the pits.  Now, go figure.

I see you really do think that the PNC had ho0nest elections.

The only time that the polling stations filled up was after 6:30PM (polling stations closed at 6PM) when the buses drove around with the YSM goons who voted 22 times.  Even with this it was estimated that voter turnout based on valiad ballots, was a scant 15%.

FM
Originally Posted by JB:
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by baseman:
 

Most blacks are hardworking people.  Most blacks also want a PNC Govt regardless of their lot.  Few like you are racists but you have great impact.

Most blacks vote PNC which just shows you that they really resent the PPP. o.

They voted PNC even when the PNC had the nation, and them in the pits.  Now, go figure.

Not true because election was rig. we never know how they would vote. also many black people was following Dr Rodney


Yes Rodney attracted huge numbers of black in G/town.  This is why the PNC (with the support of the PPP, who also worried about Rodney's popularity among sugar workers) had him killed.

 

The WPA core group will quickly tell you that Rodney was told only to talk to black people, and when he also spoke to Indians, the PPP threatened him.  The PPP saw Rodney as a little black boy whose only purpose to was to weaken an African dictatorship, so that an Indian dictatorship could replace it.

 

As we see the WPA is in bed with the PNC, and are now extremely hostile to the PPP.  And that includes Indians like Roopnarine.

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by JB:
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by baseman:
 

Most blacks are hardworking people.  Most blacks also want a PNC Govt regardless of their lot.  Few like you are racists but you have great impact.

Most blacks vote PNC which just shows you that they really resent the PPP. o.

They voted PNC even when the PNC had the nation, and them in the pits.  Now, go figure.

Not true because election was rig. we never know how they would vote. also many black people was following Dr Rodney


Yes Rodney attracted huge numbers of black in G/town.  This is why the PNC (with the support of the PPP, who also worried about Rodney's popularity among sugar workers) had him killed.

 

The WPA core group will quickly tell you that Rodney was told only to talk to black people, and when he also spoke to Indians, the PPP threatened him.  The PPP saw Rodney as a little black boy whose only purpose to was to weaken an African dictatorship, so that an Indian dictatorship could replace it.

 

As we see the WPA is in bed with the PNC, and are now extremely hostile to the PPP.  And that includes Indians like Roopnarine.

True dat! Dem PPP bais doan want hear dat. De Indos is dem property. hey Hey Hey...

FM

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