This tells me enough about who is right and who is wrong. Resistance against illegal occupiers is everyone's birthright. There is not a single American who would sit back and allow another to invade and occupy the US so there is no reason why the Palestinians should.

I am curious if this was where it all started in 1947

Most of the land in the Gaza Strip was originally owned by the Palestines.  The claim to the land by the Israelis has never been validated and much of the land was taken forcibly.  One of my international politics professors went to live there while doing research for a book she was writing.  Some of the Palestines told her that they would leave home in the morning and when they returned home in the evening someone else was living in their house and they were not allowed to go back in.

Amral posted:

I am curious if this was where it all started in 1947

The conflict between the Palestines and the Israelis started in 1947.  The documentary does not give the history that is why it's not clear exactly what happened.  During World War 1 the British conquered this land when they destroyed the Ottoman Empire.  From then, It was British occupied until the U N decided to partition it between the Palestines and the Israelis around 1947.  The Palestines did not accept the partition because originally the land was theirs for thousands of years before the British conquered it.

ksazma posted:

This tells me enough about who is right and who is wrong. Resistance against illegal occupiers is everyone's birthright. There is not a single American who would sit back and allow another to invade and occupy the US so there is no reason why the Palestinians should.

 

Israel is the historical land of the Jews. It is like a China Chinaman or a Tiwanese Chinaman or some type of Pak telling me that Kashmir or Arunchal Pradesh is not my land.  It is part of my historical land and my ethnic identity. That being said. Palestinian land today should not be illegally settled by Netanyahu and gang because the two state solution is the only way forward for peace.

Prashad posted:

ksazma posted:

This tells me enough about who is right and who is wrong. Resistance against illegal occupiers is everyone's birthright. There is not a single American who would sit back and allow another to invade and occupy the US so there is no reason why the Palestinians should.

 

Israel is the historical land of the Jews.

If it is the historical land of the Jews, why did God chose to have the Palestinians live there for most of the 6000 years history of the Jews and even before that since the Jews met them there some 6000 years ago. If it is their historical land, why did God deny them entrance into Israel for 40 years leaving them to wander in the wilderness? If it is truly really their land, why did God only let them live there for a few years here and there but let the Palestinians live there before Abraham, after Abraham, Before and after Moses, before and after Jesus and even today with the Israeli illegal occupation of Palestine, there are still more Palestinians than Israelis living on that piece of land.

According to the Bible, the Jews have been utterly destroying the Palestinians since the time of Moses and yet today with their brutal occupation, there are still more Palestinians than Jews living there.

Amral posted:

I am curious if this was where it all started in 1947

Nah bai. It started since Biblical time.

Ksama, Palestine is the Roman word given to the lands of the Kingdom of Judah ( Today's Southern Israel) and The Kingdom of Israel  (Today's Northern Israel) that they captured. These are the historical lands of the Jewish people.   Most of those Jewish people were displaced as a result of Roman conquest.  Many centuries after, Arab and Turkish forces then captured that land for the Ummah.  Taking someone's land in battle or migration does not give you a right to wipe out their historical connections to that land. But I do accept the fact that some Palestinians are genetic jews that converted to Islam and Christianity.

Amral posted:

I am curious if this was where it all started in 1947

Heightened to a frenzy in 1947.

Brief historical issues ...

1. Around the First World War, arrangements were made to establish two states ... Palestine and Israel.

2. Issues progressed in a normal way until 1947.

3. In 1947 Israel unilaterally declared its independence and continued to usurp areas designated for Palestine.

4. Palestine continued to remain as-is until now.

Prashad posted:

Ksama, Palestine is the Roman word given to the lands of the Kingdom of Judah ( Today's Southern Israel) and The Kingdom of Israel  (Today's Northern Israel) that they captured. These are the historical lands of the Jewish people.   Most of those Jewish people were displaced as a result of Roman conquest.  Many centuries after, Arab and Turkish forces then captured that land for the Ummah.  Taking someone's land in battle or migration does not give you a right to wipe out their historical connections to that land. But I do accept the fact that some Palestinians are genetic jews that converted to Islam and Christianity.

The Jewish population was very small.  Most of the Gaza strip was occupied by the Palestines for thousands of years.

If we are going with Biblical times then we are endorsing the existence God and the Bible. 

There is a lot of history in the Bible and the Quran.  The Prophet Muhammad visited Gaza before he became a prophet.  Jesus visited nearby Jerusalem.  And it is believed that Muhammad ascended into heaven from Jerusalem.

The problem today started with the Zionist movement, where the Jews wanted to establish a Jewish homeland, which is Israel.  Then they started creeping into the Gaza strip which was already occupied by the Palestines.  The Palestines rightfully resisted.

So far this Israeli-Palestinian polemic is progressing well. I am awarding Bibi 2 points, Prashad 2 points, Demerara_Guy 1.5 points, and Ksazma 1 point. Please proceed to the Final Solution of the Israeli-Palestinian problem.

I was hoping Obama was going to find the Final Solution but he didn't.  As long as the US continues to fund Israel to the tune of billions of foreign aid, it is not going to happen.  The US needs a military foothold in the region so they will keep holding on to Israel by providing financial support.  Yasser Arrafat under the PLO came the closest to finding peace.  Even willing to give up some of their land to the Israelis but they wanted more. 

Bibi Haniffa posted:

I was hoping Obama was going to find the Final Solution but he didn't.  As long as the US continues to fund Israel to the tune of billions of foreign aid, it is not going to happen.  The US needs a military foothold in the region so they will keep holding on to Israel by providing financial support.  Yasser Arrafat under the PLO came the closest to finding peace.  Even willing to give up some of their land to the Israelis but they wanted more. 

Bibi's contribution upgraded to 2.25 points.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

I was hoping Obama was going to find the Final Solution but he didn't.  As long as the US continues to fund Israel to the tune of billions of foreign aid, it is not going to happen.  The US needs a military foothold in the region so they will keep holding on to Israel by providing financial support.  Yasser Arrafat under the PLO came the closest to finding peace.  Even willing to give up some of their land to the Israelis but they wanted more. 

Bibi

You are right on the money with your analysis. 

I strongly believe that the People of Palestine must be given back all of their land but I do not see this happening in my lifetime.

The solution is a compromise as originally proposed by Bill Clinton in which as Bibi indicated, came closest to finding peace. The American administration must pressure Israel into talks in finding a solution. 

The UN has been totally useless with only talk and talk is cheap.

President Trump might surprise us but he is unpredictable.

Gilbakka posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

I was hoping Obama was going to find the Final Solution but he didn't.  As long as the US continues to fund Israel to the tune of billions of foreign aid, it is not going to happen.  The US needs a military foothold in the region so they will keep holding on to Israel by providing financial support.  Yasser Arrafat under the PLO came the closest to finding peace.  Even willing to give up some of their land to the Israelis but they wanted more. 

Bibi's contribution upgraded to 2.25 points.

Lol.  I have court side advantage here.  One of my college professors wrote a book on this subject and I was able to get first hand knowledge from her.  Her mom is American Jewish, Janet Abu Lughod and her father, Ibrahim Abu Lughod, is Palestinian.  She lived there for a short while. 

yuji22 posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

I was hoping Obama was going to find the Final Solution but he didn't.  As long as the US continues to fund Israel to the tune of billions of foreign aid, it is not going to happen.  The US needs a military foothold in the region so they will keep holding on to Israel by providing financial support.  Yasser Arrafat under the PLO came the closest to finding peace.  Even willing to give up some of their land to the Israelis but they wanted more. 

Bibi

You are right on the money with your analysis. 

I strongly believe that the People of Palestine must be given back all of their land but I do not see this happening in my lifetime.

The solution is a compromise as originally proposed by Bill Clinton in which as Bibi indicated, came closest to finding peace. The American administration must pressure Israel into talks in finding a solution. 

The UN has been totally useless with only talk and talk is cheap.

President Trump might surprise us but he is unpredictable.

Heh-heh-heh!!! yuji22 wants points too!! For piggy-backing on Bibi's contribution, he gets 0.5 point.

What did the US get in return for supplying Israel with all the tanks and ammunition in 1973. Has Egypt continued to be a friend of Israel. 

Thus far the US_of_A got absolutely nothing for its continued supplies.

The US gets to use Israel as a military foothold to control the region.  It's just a matter of geography.  If ever a war was to break out, the US will use Israel as its military base to launch attacks.  The Israeli army is very powerful.  It's mandatory for every Israeli citizen to serve in the army.  That was a law passed by the Knesset years ago.

Egypt and Israel have tried to keep diplomatic relations but many Palestines now live in Egypt after being forced out of their land.  There is no peace there.

So Millions of dollars were spent on this  and they got diddly squat in return so far. And I am assuming they are continuing their support. The way I see it Israel should be forced to give up part of their claim.

There are indeed continued support by the US_of_A to Israel.

Billions instead of millions of dollars.

Demerara_Guy posted:

Thus far the US_of_A got absolutely nothing for its continued supplies.

You are correct.  That is why many Americans question why so much money is going to Israel.  And, and, and there is a new 10-year $38 billion aid package to Israel signed by Obama. The United States gave Israel $3.1 billion for Fiscal Year 2016 in direct bilateral military aid.

No wonder the flipping world is collapsing all around. America is the goldmine that the war nations can fall upon to bank role them.

You got that right.  And dem a borrow trillions from China to do this.  Trump has to figure out how he will find the money to pay back China.  Obama dug a deep grave there.  And he dug it so quietly not many people realized.

The borrowing from China was not started nor exacerbated by former President Barrack Hussein Obama.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

Prashad posted:

Ksama, Palestine is the Roman word given to the lands of the Kingdom of Judah ( Today's Southern Israel) and The Kingdom of Israel  (Today's Northern Israel) that they captured. These are the historical lands of the Jewish people.   Most of those Jewish people were displaced as a result of Roman conquest.  Many centuries after, Arab and Turkish forces then captured that land for the Ummah.  Taking someone's land in battle or migration does not give you a right to wipe out their historical connections to that land. But I do accept the fact that some Palestinians are genetic jews that converted to Islam and Christianity.

The Jewish population was very small.  Most of the Gaza strip was occupied by the Palestines for thousands of years.

Bibi Haniffa you need to read historical records . The area which the Greek army found during their conquest of the then known world they called it Palestine in their historical documents. The Romans adopted that name from Greek historical records for the area a few centuries later. There was no such thing as Palestinians. The area was made up of  several kingdoms. Two large kingdoms in the area were Jewish. They were enemies of each other. The present day Palestinians are people whose ancestors were from those different kingdoms, people whose ancestors migrated into the area with the different conquests of the area and people whose ancestors were Jews but they converted to Islam and Christianity. You cannot wipe out a Jewish person's historical claim to an area based on their ancestors losing a battle.

By Dave Boyer - The Washington Times - Sunday, November 1, 2015

The article by Dave Boyed in the Washington Times is based on thoughts interjections and projections rather than realities.

Obama was a good President for white America. I cannot see any thing of value that he did for people of colour except for some racist blacks to shout praises for him because he is black.

Read this document: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

An excerpt:"“[The Ottoman Land Code of 1858] required the registration in the name of individual owners of agricultural land, most of which had never previously been registered and which had formerly been treated according to traditional forms of land tenure, in the hill areas of Palestine generally masha’a, or communal usufruct. The new law meant that for the first time a peasant could be deprived not of title to his land, which he had rarely held before, but rather of the right to live on it, cultivate it and pass it on to his heirs, which had formerly been inalienable...Under the provisions of the 1858 law, communal rights of tenure were often ignored...Instead, members of the upper classes, adept at manipulating or circumventing the legal process, registered large areas of land as theirs...The fellahin [peasants] naturally considered the land to be theirs, and often discovered that they had ceased to be the legal owners only when the land was sold to Jewish settlers by an absentee landlord...Not only was the land being purchased; its Arab cultivators were being dispossessed and replaced by foreigners who had overt political objectives in Palestine.” Rashid Khalidi, “Blaming The Victims,” ed. Said and Hitchens"

Edward Said has many writings on the situation in Palestine but you don't really hear much about him.

Gilbakka posted:

yuji22 posted:

Bibi Haniffa posted:

I was hoping Obama was going to find the Final Solution but he didn't.  As long as the US continues to fund Israel to the tune of billions of foreign aid, it is not going to happen.  The US needs a military foothold in the region so they will keep holding on to Israel by providing financial support.  Yasser Arrafat under the PLO came the closest to finding peace.  Even willing to give up some of their land to the Israelis but they wanted more. 

Bibi

You are right on the money with your analysis. 

I strongly believe that the People of Palestine must be given back all of their land but I do not see this happening in my lifetime.

The solution is a compromise as originally proposed by Bill Clinton in which as Bibi indicated, came closest to finding peace. The American administration must pressure Israel into talks in finding a solution. 

The UN has been totally useless with only talk and talk is cheap.

President Trump might surprise us but he is unpredictable.

Heh-heh-heh!!! yuji22 wants points too!! For piggy-backing on Bibi's contribution, he gets 0.5 point.

Add the 0.5 to Bibi. Bibi gets full credit.

So why cant Prophet Mohammad and Jesus not help the POOR, HELPLESS Palestinians or all these Books are nothing but Nancy Stories??? Just asking!!!!!!!!!

Prashad, have you ever read of the Phillistines in the Old Testament? When did they exist?

Some of the Israelis living on stolen land ARE THe MOST RACIST SWINES ON EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kazama I read historical sources written by historians of the period not some here say some people repeat.

Nehru Bhai

You are on fire today. It really sad that the people of Palestine has to suffer and live in humiliation as the world watches hopelessly.