caribny posted:

Its a pity that you are just plainly stupid. If you had a brain you would realize that a lease to own plan is to ensure that people do farm and that the land isn't used to speculatively sell.  If you don't own the land, but you are leasing it then it is not yours to sell. 

If you are a lessee and you aren't farming then your lease will be canceled and some one who will farm will replace you.  Some one who is just getting into this to sell isn't going to be involved in something that would bar them from full ownership for at least 20 years.

You are also a blatant jackass. Who is the private sector? Not private INDEPENDENT farmers?

Ironically the "private sector" which you will define as the oligarchs will most likely take the sugar lands and turn it into more gated communities to launder their ill gotten gains.  Wealthy Guyanese are speculators, not producers. Just look at all of those big and empty buildings that began to go up under the PPP in G/T.

The govt is making money right now from rice farmers by renting land. If land is given away at a discount, this will only serve to artificially prop up the industry and increase inefficiency.  The industry of agriculture needs to stand on its own, only then will people run it efficiently. 

Drugb posted:

GTAngler posted:

Drugb posted:

caribny posted:

I guess you eat dirt or you would realize that there are business opportunities in feeding people.  I will ask who is going to actually do the work of planting?  Do you not think that its better that those who farm OWN their operations, or do you want them to remain as the employees of these private investors?

I said that the government should make lands available to those interesting in farming. I said that such arrangements be on a lease to own business, so deserving farmers eventually own their own lands. I also said that the government should work with the private sector (which includes these farmers) to ensure that they have access to credit, technical and marketing support.

You will note that it is the role of the government to SUPPORT, not to be actively involved in agriculture. In fact this is a shift AWAY from sugar, except for a smaller operation which will focus on domestic and Caricom markets. 

I also suggested that the government work with the private sector to help them develop markets for their agri products in markets overseas.  I am sure that even you realize that it is easier for the government to organize a business promotion trip to market to hotels in Barbados than for some small farmer in Berbice to do that on their own.

Now druggie I know that these concepts are way too advanced for you puny brain to comprehend, but please try.

I don't believe govt should give away land, especially to PNC supporters who will sell it to Indos and sport the money out. This is what was done during the Burnham era when he gave away land to Black PnC supporters. 

Let private enterprise take over the food supplying, leave govt to govern and not run business. 

I don't think privatizing is the answer either. The most immediate concern is the workers without jobs. They should be allotted land free of charge to farm diversified crops. if they don't make use, take it back. The land needs to remain government owned.

Are you daft man?  What is the point of free land without the requisite machinery, irrigation and markets in place? Where will your kumbya approach to capitalism stop? Govt to provide all these assistance too? Govt should not be in the business of finding running business, this is not their forte.  

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

Drugb posted:

.

 

The govt is making money right now from rice farmers by renting land. If land is given away at a discount, this will only serve to artificially prop up the industry and increase inefficiency.  The industry of agriculture needs to stand on its own, only then will people run it efficiently. 

So there is a precedent for leasing land. So why your screams that it is a giveaway.  The same way rice farmers benefit ex sugar workers can also.

GTAngler posted:

 

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

Druggie is confused. Not that long ago he was blaming Granger for the plight of the sugar workers. Now he wants them to slave for some oligarch, who will treat them even worse than the Granger controlled Guysuco currently does.

Surely druggie doesn't think that the "private sector" (by this he means the ultra wealthy) are going to grow crops in the hot sun.  

GTAngler posted:

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

How did race come into the discussion? 

If you are concerned about feeding the people immediately then why go with a long term untested solution of leasing land to folks who may not know a thing about farming? You don't expect us to believe that every can cutter is knowledgeable or accomplished farmer.  Besides the type of farming you are suggesting is a long term venture that requires development of the land to fit the type of crop to be grown. You folks don't thing before you speak, you just jump on whatever caribj says without asking questions. You need to be more analytical before putting fingers to keyboard and get embarrassed. 

I suggest that a severance payment would be more beneficial rather than leasing land for immediate hunger needs. 

Drugb posted:

GTAngler posted:

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

How did race come into the discussion? 

If you are concerned about feeding the people immediately then why go with a long term untested solution of leasing land to folks who may not know a thing about farming? You don't expect us to believe that every can cutter is knowledgeable or accomplished farmer.  Besides the type of farming you are suggesting is a long term venture that requires development of the land to fit the type of crop to be grown. You folks don't thing before you speak, you just jump on whatever caribj says without asking questions. You need to be more analytical before putting fingers to keyboard and get embarrassed. 

I suggest that a severance payment would be more beneficial rather than leasing land for immediate hunger needs. 

You brought race into the discussion with your "Kumbaya" Capitalism or are did you forget?  Also I never said leasing. Please reread my post. I said free of charge. At least in the beginning. I am willing to bet that 99% of the canecutters are capable/knowledgeable of subsistence farming. That's all I am proposing as a "band aid" not a permanent solution. Now that you've brought it up, the kind of training/expertise etc. for a long term takes time and is something that should have been started a long time ago and gradually phased in. I agree that some severance in the form of capital to purchase fertilizer, pesticides, equipment etc. should be made available. Chances are, most of these cane cutters already have their little kitchen gardens. By the way, whatever I write here is what I believe and not based on anyone else.

GTAngler posted:zzHow did race come into the discussion? 

You brought race into the discussion with your "Kumbaya" Capitalism or are did you forget?  Also I never said leasing. Please reread my post. I said free of charge. At least in the beginning. I am willing to bet that 99% of the canecutters are capable/knowledgeable of subsistence farming. That's all I am proposing as a "band aid" not a permanent solution. Now that you've brought it up, the kind of training/expertise etc. for a long term takes time and is something that should have been started a long time ago and gradually phased in. I agree that some severance in the form of capital to purchase fertilizer, pesticides, equipment etc. should be made available. Chances are, most of these cane cutters already have their little kitchen gardens. By the way, whatever I write here is what I believe and not based on anyone else.

Kumbaya has nothing to do with race, it has a universal expression meaning these days, meaning that you have your head in the clouds. 

See below for my interpretation:

It is good that people like you are not in power, you didn't analyze the problem but already you rush to a solution with certain assumptions:

1: cane cutters has the skillset and fortitude to be subsistence farmers

2: subsistence farming will provide a living for cane cutters that is acceptable to them and substitute for cane cutting

3: there is a market for the produce of the substance farming. 

You and caribJ are just blowing smoke, jumping up like a chicken without a head claiming to have a solution without the requisite research.

caribny posted:

GTAngler posted:

 

You racist moron, I said immediate concern. I am thinking more along the lines of them feeding themselves and maybe having something to sell. You can't just take their jobs and not give them something to fall back on.

Druggie is confused. Not that long ago he was blaming Granger for the plight of the sugar workers. Now he wants them to slave for some oligarch, who will treat them even worse than the Granger controlled Guysuco currently does.

Surely druggie doesn't think that the "private sector" (by this he means the ultra wealthy) are going to grow crops in the hot sun.  

Druggie is a jackass. Let him bray. 

Giving free land to cane cutters is no good, they will flip the land for a profit, all cane cutters dream is a way out of cutting cane and hard labor . What surprises me every body has the solutions for the Sugar Industry but they never work a day in the business, sugar in Guyana is like building ships with sails, the industry has evolved ,but Guyana is still operating as in the colonial days. First, the government must offer the land at a cheap no transferable lease to all existing sugar workers. Also with the help from the school of agriculture and Government, initial assistance and direction to be given to these workers, cant expect a cane cutter to know about crop management and marketing. If the land is not cultivated within a certain period of time, then it is taken away. Not until all the workers first given a chance of the land, then after the bid is open to the general public. Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

kp posted:

 Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

I made that suggestion a while back,the gov't can also assist to get some export market,every time i shop for vegatables and see where the are coming from,i always said to my self why Guyana can get their produce here,of course proper pest control will have to be implemented..

Django posted:

kp posted:

 Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

I made that suggestion a while back,the gov't can also assist to get some export market,every time i shop for vegatables and see where the are coming from,i always said to my self why Guyana can get their produce here,of course proper pest control will have to be implemented..

They already have pest control for rice and sugar, so cash crop should not be too difficult.

We started a co-op with some youth who did not want to return to school. Every Friday a Georgetown truck arrive and rip de kids off with low prices for the stuff they grow.

We implemented a co-op system where they learned what it cost them to grow each item, with time and cost.

This allowed them to set better prices for their produce, but the GT buyers did not like what we did.  The youth told them to screw off and they found  local buyers at  better prices.

Today me bought some Grace juice [from Jamaica] and noticed  a long list of other Grace products, including items from Philippines and Thailand. I was impressed with the presentation of the packaging.

Me also notice Suresh Narine is involved with some AmerIndians in Paramakatoi, near Kaiteur Falls, in canning local items. Guyana needs to do more of this and link with an export market.    

Tola posted:

Django posted:

kp posted:

 Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

I made that suggestion a while back,the gov't can also assist to get some export market,every time i shop for vegatables and see where the are coming from,i always said to my self why Guyana can get their produce here,of course proper pest control will have to be implemented..

Me also notice Suresh Narine is involved with some AmerIndians in Paramakatoi, near Kaiteur Falls, in canning local items. Guyana needs to do more of this and link with an export market.    

Is he from Robb St,the owner of Narines Liquor Store ??

Django posted:

Tola posted:

Django posted:

kp posted:

 Cash crops are the best option, your market will be the local consumers.

I made that suggestion a while back,the gov't can also assist to get some export market,every time i shop for vegatables and see where the are coming from,i always said to my self why Guyana can get their produce here,of course proper pest control will have to be implemented..

Me also notice Suresh Narine is involved with some AmerIndians in Paramakatoi, near Kaiteur Falls, in canning local items. Guyana needs to do more of this and link with an export market.    

Is he from Robb St,the owner of Narines Liquor Store ??

I am  not sure where in GY Suresh is from.  Me first met him in Vancouver  a decade ago with Prak Gossai, who presided at a three day yagna  service.   I was asked to video record it, by Joyce and Narine from Canal Polder, now living in Vancouver. Mara was also there and healthy at that time.  in 2006 his daughter got married at that Mandir.

I met Suresh  again in GY, when he was working with the Iast program from a Canadian university.  I visited Paramakatoi, but was busy with our project to become too involved with his.

Sugar done. Nand Persaud is now the man in the van.

The PPP's plan is always better than that which the PM proposed. The PM does not know anything about agriculture. He should be fired for pretending to be  a Pundit.

Drugb posted:

.

If you are concerned about feeding the people immediately then why go with a long term untested solution of leasing land to folks who may not know a thing about farming? .

They will definitely get severance payments as part of their union contract.  The question is what do they do after that. Its not as if those payments will take care of their needs beyond a certain short period.

Druggie I know that you want the oligarchs to turn those lands into gated communities having acquired the lands at bottom prices.  This is what Jagdeo/Ramotar did on the East Bank Demerara.

Ramakant-P posted:

The PPP's plan is always better .

You don't even know that the PPP proposed. Just mouthing your slavish approval for whatever Jagdeo says even before he has said it.

Drugb posted:

.

You and caribJ are just blowing smoke, jumping up like a chicken without a head claiming to have a solution without the requisite research.

It is in fact tested as you yourself stated that the government already leases some lands to rice and other farmers. Rather than having these people be tenant farmers in perpetuity they can eventually become owners under a lease to own arrangement.  This will facilitate their ability to get loans as they will have some sort of collateral, depending on how the bank assesses their control over the lands.

You are just advocating that the top 1% of Guyana continue to amass wealth through speculative activities.  You know full well that they don't have the slightest interest in agriculture. What they will do is built elaborate developments where prices will be quoted in US dollars, and maybe a Cineplex and a shopping mall will be added.

Most cane cutters have occupations other than cutting cane.  Many in fact are already involved in some form of agriculture.  The reason why I don't advocate giving the land to them free, but in making them pay a lease is that means that those who aren't interested in farming will not be involved in this.  In order to keep access to the land they will have to pay for it which means that they will have to generate income from it.

 The cane cutters will in fact get severance as this is part of their contract and in fact even those Guyanese who used to cut cane in St Kitts on a seasonal basis received severance.  Many will take this money and move on to other ventures. Some might want to become more involved in farming, in which case lease to own allows them access to lands. 

As you know drainage and irrigation is always a consideration in Guyana so its best if these lands are awarded on a structured basis so these services can be provided.  The local authorities will have to be put in charge of this, with a fee obviously being paid by the farmers.

caribny posted:

They will definitely get severance payments as part of their union contract.  The question is what do they do after that. Its not as if those payments will take care of their needs beyond a certain short period.

Druggie I know that you want the oligarchs to turn those lands into gated communities having acquired the lands at bottom prices.  This is what Jagdeo/Ramotar did on the East Bank Demerara.

I just don't want govt to embark on another pipe dream, giving out land like Burnham only to be burnt. Gated communities may not be a bad idea if it is more profitable than farming. Remember these folks don't have the necessary equipment/knowledge to be efficient farmers. It is like throwing a hail Mary in football, hoping that cane cutters suddenly become efficient farmers. Not because they are Indians mean that they will be successful. This is reverse discrimination. 

Most cane cutters are natural farmers. They would have eventually been retrenched due the inevitable mechanization of the industry for it to be sustainable.