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Stormborn posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Jagdeo was an exception. Regardless of what we can say about his, he took on the criminals and he was outspoken....thats why he is liked by Indians. He is hated by Afros because he showed us that he can be a "tough coolie".  

There was no need for an Indian vs black and a perpetuation of the racist bifurcation or our peoples on race. He most of all had a tenure sufficient to bridge the two groups by listening, and by inclusion. Instead he had misir writing counter arguments to African Marginalization and relying on a drug lord as security when he failed to trust our own security forces. He was a poor leader. He was vile, vindictive, given to the easy lie, not ever seeing black people as people but as social monads to be moved directed and marginalized to the advantage of his own kindred.Unfortunately, he did not help Indians however much they are dumb enough to miss his racism and consequent widening of the hatred between the groups. The majority of indians were made poorer in his administration. He had no economy to speak of. Meanwhile, amerindians were squeezed...the largest land owners but the poorest people because they were seen as charity case and treated as wards of the indian administration.

On target.

Django
Stormborn posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Jagdeo was an exception. Regardless of what we can say about his, he took on the criminals and he was outspoken....thats why he is liked by Indians. He is hated by Afros because he showed us that he can be a "tough coolie".  

There was no need for an Indian vs black and a perpetuation of the racist bifurcation or our peoples on race. He most of all had a tenure sufficient to bridge the two groups by listening, and by inclusion. Instead he had misir writing counter arguments to African Marginalization and relying on a drug lord as security when he failed to trust our own security forces. He was a poor leader. He was vile, vindictive, given to the easy lie, not ever seeing black people as people but as social monads to be moved directed and marginalized to the advantage of his own kindred. Unfortunately, he did not help Indians however much they are dumb enough to miss his racism and consequent widening of the hatred between the groups. The majority of indians were made poorer in his administration. He had no economy to speak of. Meanwhile, amerindians were squeezed...the largest land owners but the poorest people because they were seen as charity case and treated as wards of the indian administration.

I would have to be able to get into Jagdeo's head to see his mindset to confirm  your characterization of him. 

I have said this before...I dont think in his mind he was a racist in the sense that he actually devised a plan to marginalize Afros. I am not convinced about this. He said some stupid things, but I am not convinced he was a racist. Many Afros attack Cheddi Jagan as being racist, but he was far from this. I think. 

If anything the PPP clan, including Jagdeo (I will not include Ramotar in this group, he was a pawn) was immoral and sought aggrandizement. I am now, and the more I learn about Guyana in recent months, more convinced that the PPP did not do much to elevate Indians, who are their traditional supporters. In that sense you are correct. 

V
VishMahabir posted:

Again, you missing the big picture. I refer to a mindset.

Maybe in West Coast you jahadis are brave souls because you re huddled together. How many of them will standup to a mini bus conductor and tell them to play some Indians music when the majority of passengers are Indians? 

Indians are easily threatened. They avoid conflicts and will think twice before getting into an argument, whether its with a white or afro person.

But like I said...they are willing to fight their matty Indians...thats as far as it goes.

So Vish, if your feeling is Indians are push overs,who do you blame for this, the Government, blacks, whites, who??

cain
Last edited by cain
Django posted:
Stormborn posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Jagdeo was an exception. Regardless of what we can say about his, he took on the criminals and he was outspoken....thats why he is liked by Indians. He is hated by Afros because he showed us that he can be a "tough coolie".  

There was no need for an Indian vs black and a perpetuation of the racist bifurcation or our peoples on race. He most of all had a tenure sufficient to bridge the two groups by listening, and by inclusion. Instead he had misir writing counter arguments to African Marginalization and relying on a drug lord as security when he failed to trust our own security forces. He was a poor leader. He was vile, vindictive, given to the easy lie, not ever seeing black people as people but as social monads to be moved directed and marginalized to the advantage of his own kindred.Unfortunately, he did not help Indians however much they are dumb enough to miss his racism and consequent widening of the hatred between the groups. The majority of indians were made poorer in his administration. He had no economy to speak of. Meanwhile, amerindians were squeezed...the largest land owners but the poorest people because they were seen as charity case and treated as wards of the indian administration.

On target.

Completely OFF target.

Bibi Haniffa
cain posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Again, you missing the big picture. I refer to a mindset.

Maybe in West Coast you jahadis are brave souls because you re huddled together. How many of them will standup to a mini bus conductor and tell them to play some Indians music when the majority of passengers are Indians? 

Indians are easily threatened. They avoid conflicts and will think twice before getting into an argument, whether its with a white or afro person.

But like I said...they are willing to fight their matty Indians...thats as far as it goes.

So Vish, if your feeling is Indians are push overs,who do you blame for this, the Government, blacks, whites, who??

Why does anyone have to be blamed if Indians are pushovers?  They were made that way by the almighty maker. Their DNA and genetic mapping contribute to their character and personality.

Bibi Haniffa

I

Bibi Haniffa posted:
cain posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Again, you missing the big picture. I refer to a mindset.

Maybe in West Coast you jahadis are brave souls because you re huddled together. How many of them will standup to a mini bus conductor and tell them to play some Indians music when the majority of passengers are Indians? 

Indians are easily threatened. They avoid conflicts and will think twice before getting into an argument, whether its with a white or afro person.

But like I said...they are willing to fight their matty Indians...thats as far as it goes.

So Vish, if your feeling is Indians are push overs,who do you blame for this, the Government, blacks, whites, who??

Why does anyone have to be blamed if Indians are pushovers?  They were made that way by the almighty maker. Their DNA and genetic mapping contribute to their character and personality.

I wanted to know if he is blaming some one or group because Indians are wimps?

I was the lone Portuguese in East Ruimveldt Sec (Warlock) for a few years, if I were a mook I would have left first day. I was never taken advantage of, I was never afraid of anyone even after being accosted once by a few guys who tried bullying tactics in the cane field while tiefin cane next to the school. I came out without a scratch the only scratches I received were from the leaves of the cane.

Perhaps it's time Indians grew some baltz.

cain
cain posted:

I

Bibi Haniffa posted:
cain posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Again, you missing the big picture. I refer to a mindset.

Maybe in West Coast you jahadis are brave souls because you re huddled together. How many of them will standup to a mini bus conductor and tell them to play some Indians music when the majority of passengers are Indians? 

Indians are easily threatened. They avoid conflicts and will think twice before getting into an argument, whether its with a white or afro person.

But like I said...they are willing to fight their matty Indians...thats as far as it goes.

So Vish, if your feeling is Indians are push overs,who do you blame for this, the Government, blacks, whites, who??

Why does anyone have to be blamed if Indians are pushovers?  They were made that way by the almighty maker. Their DNA and genetic mapping contribute to their character and personality.

I wanted to know if he is blaming some one or group because Indians are wimps?

I was the lone Portuguese in East Ruimveldt Sec (Warlock) for a few years, if I were a mook I would have left first day. I was never taken advantage of, I was never afraid of anyone even after being accosted once by a few guys who tried bullying tactics in the cane field while tiefin cane next to the school. I came out without a scratch the only scratches I received were from the leaves of the cane.

Perhaps it's time Indians grew some baltz.

In a civil society, everyone should be treated in a civil manner.  There is no need to grow baltz as there is no need for bullying.  

Bibi Haniffa
cain posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Again, you missing the big picture. I refer to a mindset.

Maybe in West Coast you jahadis are brave souls because you re huddled together. How many of them will standup to a mini bus conductor and tell them to play some Indians music when the majority of passengers are Indians? 

Indians are easily threatened. They avoid conflicts and will think twice before getting into an argument, whether its with a white or afro person.

But like I said...they are willing to fight their matty Indians...thats as far as it goes.

So Vish, if your feeling is Indians are push overs,who do you blame for this, the Government, blacks, whites, who??

Cain,

I dont blame Blacks...I blame Indians and their leaders.

V
cain posted:

I

Bibi Haniffa posted:
cain posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Again, you missing the big picture. I refer to a mindset.

Maybe in West Coast you jahadis are brave souls because you re huddled together. How many of them will standup to a mini bus conductor and tell them to play some Indians music when the majority of passengers are Indians? 

Indians are easily threatened. They avoid conflicts and will think twice before getting into an argument, whether its with a white or afro person.

But like I said...they are willing to fight their matty Indians...thats as far as it goes.

So Vish, if your feeling is Indians are push overs,who do you blame for this, the Government, blacks, whites, who??

Why does anyone have to be blamed if Indians are pushovers?  They were made that way by the almighty maker. Their DNA and genetic mapping contribute to their character and personality.

I wanted to know if he is blaming some one or group because Indians are wimps?

I was the lone Portuguese in East Ruimveldt Sec (Warlock) for a few years, if I were a mook I would have left first day. I was never taken advantage of, I was never afraid of anyone even after being accosted once by a few guys who tried bullying tactics in the cane field while tiefin cane next to the school. I came out without a scratch the only scratches I received were from the leaves of the cane.

Perhaps it's time Indians grew some baltz.

I would have to agree with you on this...but I would add that Indians are preyed upon because they are seen as weak...and all the stereotypes that go with this. They get robbed because there is a belief that they have money....maybe its time they start packing.  

V
Last edited by VishMahabir
Bibi Haniffa posted:

In a civil society, everyone should be treated in a civil manner.  There is no need to grow baltz as there is no need for bullying.  

True, but same can be said about no need for crime, accidents, disease, deaths...it's not a perfect world and we must always BE PREPARED. ( can u tell I was an old scout?)

cain
VishMahabir posted:

There was no need for an Indian vs black and a perpetuation of the racist bifurcation or our peoples on race. He most of all had a tenure sufficient to bridge the two groups by listening, and by inclusion. Instead he had misir writing counter arguments to African Marginalization and relying on a drug lord as security when he failed to trust our own security forces. He was a poor leader. He was vile, vindictive, given to the easy lie, not ever seeing black people as people but as social monads to be moved directed and marginalized to the advantage of his own kindred. Unfortunately, he did not help Indians however much they are dumb enough to miss his racism and consequent widening of the hatred between the groups. The majority of indians were made poorer in his administration. He had no economy to speak of. Meanwhile, amerindians were squeezed...the largest land owners but the poorest people because they were seen as charity case and treated as wards of the indian administration.

I would have to be able to get into Jagdeo's head to see his mindset to confirm  your characterization of him. 

I have said this before...I dont think in his mind he was a racist in the sense that he actually devised a plan to marginalize Afros. I am not convinced about this. He said some stupid things, but I am not convinced he was a racist. Many Afros attack Cheddi Jagan as being racist, but he was far from this. I think. 

If anything the PPP clan, including Jagdeo (I will not include Ramotar in this group, he was a pawn) was immoral and sought aggrandizement. I am now, and the more I learn about Guyana in recent months, more convinced that the PPP did not do much to elevate Indians, who are their traditional supporters. In that sense you are correct. 

I did not probe Jagdeo's mind. I cannot possibly do that nor can you. I examined his actions. I do not care what is in his mind, I care about the consequence of his actions and they were not for the masses who remain in destitution and want. He only enriched a few and in so doing damaged our society.

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Django posted:
Stormborn posted:
VishMahabir posted:

Jagdeo was an exception. Regardless of what we can say about his, he took on the criminals and he was outspoken....thats why he is liked by Indians. He is hated by Afros because he showed us that he can be a "tough coolie".  

There was no need for an Indian vs black and a perpetuation of the racist bifurcation or our peoples on race. He most of all had a tenure sufficient to bridge the two groups by listening, and by inclusion. Instead he had misir writing counter arguments to African Marginalization and relying on a drug lord as security when he failed to trust our own security forces. He was a poor leader. He was vile, vindictive, given to the easy lie, not ever seeing black people as people but as social monads to be moved directed and marginalized to the advantage of his own kindred.Unfortunately, he did not help Indians however much they are dumb enough to miss his racism and consequent widening of the hatred between the groups. The majority of indians were made poorer in his administration. He had no economy to speak of. Meanwhile, amerindians were squeezed...the largest land owners but the poorest people because they were seen as charity case and treated as wards of the indian administration.

On target.

Completely OFF target.

As I noted elsewhere, zealots do not count. Only those who can reason through to contest propositions matter....you remain a mindless supplicant  from the cult of jagdeo.

FM
Ramakant-P posted:

You all shouldn't worry about Jagdeo, but should worry about the inactivity of the APNU/AFC government.

Reepu's daughter will eventually take over the Party's Leadership at the next convention. 

I guess PPPites are just completely in awe at this overwhelmingly astute reasoning. I know she thinks her indian and even leveled her bile against Afro Guyanese. To the Average indian...you included she is just another confused black girl wearing sari....Ravi Dev's words.

FM
Stormborn posted:
Ramakant-P posted:

You all shouldn't worry about Jagdeo, but should worry about the inactivity of the APNU/AFC government.

Reepu's daughter will eventually take over the Party's Leadership at the next convention. 

I guess PPPites are just completely in awe at this overwhelmingly astute reasoning. I know she thinks her indian and even leveled her bile against Afro Guyanese. To the Average indian...you included she is just another confused black girl wearing sari....Ravi Dev's words.

Don't go there. It's absurd..

R
Ramakant-P posted:
Stormborn posted:
Ramakant-P posted:

You all shouldn't worry about Jagdeo, but should worry about the inactivity of the APNU/AFC government.

Reepu's daughter will eventually take over the Party's Leadership at the next convention. 

I guess PPPites are just completely in awe at this overwhelmingly astute reasoning. I know she thinks her indian and even leveled her bile against Afro Guyanese. To the Average indian...you included she is just another confused black girl wearing sari....Ravi Dev's words.

Don't go there. It's absurd..

fast reading....mispoke...mistake the PPP pandit's daughter for Rohee's daughter 

FM
Mitwah posted:

Will he be entitled to both the Presidential Pension + the Leader of the Opposition Pension? Why is he hogging the Leader of the Opposition position and not allowing another competent member of the PPP to hold this important portfolio and qualify for the Leader of the Opposition?

Is there no one that is qualified?

This is what I find interesting. The brown bai KKK screams about the salary increase but say NOTHING about how greedy Jagdeo is.

If Jagdeo had any integrity he would suspend receiving his pension, as he is an active member of parliament, therefore not retired from government service, and he should take the same salary that Granger got as Leader of the Opposition.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
 

At this stage the PPP needs a strong figure to keep the party together.

And yet APNU and AFC are deliriously happy that Jagdeo remains. But for Jagdeo one might have seen many of their supporters seriously considering the PPP as an option.  But daily Jagdeo displays all the reasons why they didn't vote PPP in 2015.

FM
Kari posted:

Indians are not your daddy's - dem boys packing. .

And yet the narrative of the poor weak Indian being beaten up by the savage black man remains.

BTW the image of the Indian in the early 60s was that of a hot tempered person, deftly wielding a very sharp cutlass, with deadly effect.

The notion that Indians were the only victims of the early 60s violence is a PPP invention. 

FM
Django posted:
 

Kari..you got to be kidding,what era that that happen?

Yes I want to know, because the narrative just last year was that of Indians voting for the PPP out of terror of being raped, assaulted and killed, if "blackman come back".

I definitely know the era of the Indo weakling wasn't true of the early 60s, as one wouldnt have seen huge numbers of blacks fleeing to majority black areas if this is true.

And in fact I have heard Indians wail about being bullied by blacks at Stabroek market and others places.

Kari refers to the Indo business elites who hired black mercenaries for their own protection.

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
 

All of this is incorrect.  Propaganda machine is churning!!!!!

And what part of this do you think is wrong.

The fact that blacks hate Jagdeo, and in fact feel betrayed because they originally thought that he would remove racism from politics and governance in Guyana?

Or the fact that Jagdeo, who couldn't even afford a car in 1992 is a multi millionaire (US $) when his salary as president would never have allowed him to amass all that wealth?

Or the disgraceful way he treated his "wife" in a land where domestic abuse remains a serious issue?

FM
Zed posted:
 

We can say that when we are safely not residing in Guyana. Did you see the video when two of APNU female supporters confronted and scared all of those PPP picketers who did nothing, said nothing even when one of the ladies took away the placard and tore it up and threatened them with violence. 

Indo accept that East Indians did struggle against the sugar planters and there was some against the burnham regime.

The fact that two elderly ladies terrified a large group of men, who cannot be weaklings as cane cutting is a hard job, testifies to the degree to which the PPP has reduced the self esteem of the Indian.

The PPP has told Indians that they are powerless, weak, and defenseless without the PPP, and most Indians have come to believe this.

I can assure you that in 1964 the image of the Indian cane cutter was very different. Well armed with sharp cutlasses, and considered to be people with violent tempers, being seen as weak definitely wasn't the case.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
 

Carib is always poking fun at Indian men. But I do think that Indians are also afraid of Afro women.

It is the mindset. 

In 1964 blacks and Indians respected the violent capabilities of each other.

The PPP decided that making Indians into victims was the best way to galvanize their support.  Burnham wreaked violence against all who opposed him.  NOT just Indians.  In fact I can argue that it was the anti PNC blacks who felt the full impact of his rage, as the House of Isreal goons now in the employ of the PPP will admit.

So blame the PPP for the emasculation of the Indo Guyanese male.

FM
Zed posted:

 

I can tell you many stories of groups of East Indians guys sitting on the bridge rail,or in the village and one person of African descent coming up and slapping, chucking one and nobody did anything, remember how many East Indians were abused during the election violence and during the recent Agricola unrest. I hate to get into this subject, but today, I guess can be an exception because I am not feeling charitable today.

Well blame the PPP for emasculating and undermining the self esteem of the Indian.

In 1964 if a black person went into an Indo village and tried that, his flesh would have been left for the carrion crows, after having been thoroughly chopped up.

But you see the PPP invented a lie which painted 61-64 as unmitigated violence by "savage blacks" against meek Indians.  So no wonder this myth has become the truth, because this is what Indians portray, and this is what some Africans see.

FM
VishMahabir posted:
 

I would have to be able to get into Jagdeo's head to see his mindset to confirm  your characterization of him. 

I have said this before...I dont think in his mind he was a racist in the sense that he actually devised a plan to marginalize Afros. I am not convinced about this. He said some stupid things, but I am not convinced he was a racist. Many Afros attack Cheddi Jagan as being racist, but he was far from this. I think. 

If anything the PPP clan, including Jagdeo (I will not include Ramotar in this group, he was a pawn) was immoral and sought aggrandizement. I am now, and the more I learn about Guyana in recent months, more convinced that the PPP did not do much to elevate Indians, who are their traditional supporters. In that sense you are correct. 

There is a difference in how blacks viewed Cheddi.  In fact before the split he was admired by rural blacks more than Burnham was.  They didn't trust Burnham.

AFTER the split Cheddi opportunistically played the game of apaan jhat as the Indian vote was the majority.  So while blacks saw Cheddi as favoring Indians they didn't seem him as some one who would be vindictive towards them.

When Jagdeo initially came to power, they had hope that this man, who came of age after the 60s, would be open and fair to all groups. Instead they saw a vicious and malicious tyrant, who harbored deep hatred towards blacks.

Do you think that Cheddi would have fallen into the "coolie people party" trap that Jagdeo fell into last year?  Or would be boasting of "consolidating the East Indian support base"? 

Jagdeo is an unapologetic and vicious racist.  The fact that you also despise blacks is the reason why you cannot see this.

And yes it is true that the ordinary Indian didn't benefit from the Jagdeo regime any more than did blacks under Burnham.  In both instances the masses were manipulated to suit the desires of a small elite.

If Jagdeo isn't a racist, then Burnham wasn't either, because their methods were the same!

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
. Their DNA and genetic mapping contribute to their character and personality.

This is what the PPP told you.  Those blacks who fled violent mobs of Indians in 1964 will have a very different narrative.

And in fact the stereotype of the cane cutter prior to the 70s, was that of a violent and hot tempered person, who couldn't be trifled with. 

In fact even in the 70s mention of a Corentyne Indian brought shivers down the spine of many blacks.  They were seen as having the same capacity for violence as the blacks working in the mining industry, who also had this stereotype.

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Mitwah posted:

Will he be entitled to both the Presidential Pension + the Leader of the Opposition Pension? Why is he hogging the Leader of the Opposition position and not allowing another competent member of the PPP to hold this important portfolio and qualify for the Leader of the Opposition?

Is there no one that is qualified?

Why are you so obsessed with Jagdeo?  You should be worrying about the new government that you wanted who is wrecking the country!  Stop worrying about Jagdeo! And stop asking silly questions.  You should have known the answer to that question and not even be asking it.

You sound like Jagdeo.

Mitwah
Mitwah posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Mitwah posted:

Will he be entitled to both the Presidential Pension + the Leader of the Opposition Pension? Why is he hogging the Leader of the Opposition position and not allowing another competent member of the PPP to hold this important portfolio and qualify for the Leader of the Opposition?

Is there no one that is qualified?

Why are you so obsessed with Jagdeo?  You should be worrying about the new government that you wanted who is wrecking the country!  Stop worrying about Jagdeo! And stop asking silly questions.  You should have known the answer to that question and not even be asking it.

You sound like Jagdeo.

Dr. Jagdeo is the right man to push this finger up APNU/AFC ass.

FM
Gilbakka posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

The strongest female member of the party is Priya Manickchand.  

Don't let Gail Teixeira see or hear this statement. She will light a cigarette, take a strong puff, watch you eye to eye, and say firmly: "You're talking bullshit, comrade."

And I will pour a strong shot of Jack Daniels, drink a big gulp, look her back in the eye, and say firmly: "You had your time comrade, you served your country well, but it's Priya time now. That Manickchand girl is badass!!!!"

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Mitwah posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Mitwah posted:

Will he be entitled to both the Presidential Pension + the Leader of the Opposition Pension? Why is he hogging the Leader of the Opposition position and not allowing another competent member of the PPP to hold this important portfolio and qualify for the Leader of the Opposition?

Is there no one that is qualified?

Why are you so obsessed with Jagdeo?  You should be worrying about the new government that you wanted who is wrecking the country!  Stop worrying about Jagdeo! And stop asking silly questions.  You should have known the answer to that question and not even be asking it.

You sound like Jagdeo.

Mitwahji baia congrats.  Are you now The Honorable Mitwahji???  Me gat lil advice fuh you.

Bibi Haniffa
Cobra posted:
Mitwah posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Mitwah posted:

Will he be entitled to both the Presidential Pension + the Leader of the Opposition Pension? Why is he hogging the Leader of the Opposition position and not allowing another competent member of the PPP to hold this important portfolio and qualify for the Leader of the Opposition?

Is there no one that is qualified?

Why are you so obsessed with Jagdeo?  You should be worrying about the new government that you wanted who is wrecking the country!  Stop worrying about Jagdeo! And stop asking silly questions.  You should have known the answer to that question and not even be asking it.

You sound like Jagdeo.

Dr. Jagdeo is the right man to push this finger up APNU/AFC ass.

Is he now a fowl dacta?

Mitwah

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