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Django posted:

Can you recall if the news was broadcast on the same day Saturday, November 18 1978 ??

Yes, that Saturday evening news was out about the event but not enough details. Amount of casualties, who did it, etc. were sketchy. I remember a lady wondering if it was bandits who killed the Americans and would draw the ire of America. Much was unknown, but there was no attempt by the GoG to suppress the news as  you claim.

I don't know how many helicopters GDF had, but it wasn't an entire fleet. From the seawall, Vlissengen Road area it was noted that they were taking off from the GDF compound and there was higher activity than usual. this is from memories as a child.

FM
Iguana posted:
Django posted:

JOHN A. BUSHNELL
Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, ARA
Washington, DC (1977-1982)

Mr. Bushnell was interviewed by John Harter in 1997.

" It took a couple of days to get helicopters and US personnel into the area. In the meantime the Guyanese overflew Jonestown and reported there was no sign of life there. Thus we assumed most of the commune members, including the many children, had fled into the jungle, and we began preparing to look for them and to talk them out of hiding places. The weekend was spent on these issues."


 

Here is piece from an interview.

It took a couple days to get US Personnel into the area. The GDF were there same day. The day was a Saturday and Baseman is correct, news was broadcast on the radio. I was on the seawall that afternoon and there was a lot of activity with helicopters taking off from the GDF compound.

The ones in GT were also found dead that Saturday and there was a lot of police activity.

the suicides went down that Saturday night

and as i noted before, the shootings at Port Kaituma airstrip occurred approx. 5:00 pm that day . . . news could only have reached GT that evening 

NBC was reporting the murder of Congressman Ryan late that Saturday night . . . the mass murder/suicides were a next day developing story

timelines please

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Django posted:
Iguana posted:
Django posted:

JOHN A. BUSHNELL
Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, ARA
Washington, DC (1977-1982)

Mr. Bushnell was interviewed by John Harter in 1997.

" It took a couple of days to get helicopters and US personnel into the area. In the meantime the Guyanese overflew Jonestown and reported there was no sign of life there. Thus we assumed most of the commune members, including the many children, had fled into the jungle, and we began preparing to look for them and to talk them out of hiding places. The weekend was spent on these issues."


 

Here is piece from an interview.

It took a couple days to get US Personnel into the area. The GDF were there same day. The day was a Saturday and Baseman is correct, news was broadcast on the radio. I was on the seawall that afternoon and there was a lot of activity with helicopters taking off from the GDF compound.

The ones in GT were also found dead that Saturday and there was a lot of police activity.

Can you recall if the news was broadcast on the same day Saturday, November 18 1978 ??

I believe it was around 6:30 - 7:30 PM when the first broadcast was air . 

FM
ronan posted:

the suicides went down that Saturday night

and as i noted before, the shootings at Port Kaituma airstrip occurred approx. 5:00 pm that day . . . news could only have reached GT that evening 

NBC was reporting the murder of Congressman Ryan late that Saturday night . . . the mass murder/suicides were a next day developing story

timelines please

Not sure about the timing of the suicides other than it was the Saturday as well. Re the event, yes, we heard it on the radio that evening, though only that something about a murder of Americans at "Jonestown", but the gravity of the disaster was unknown.

FM
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

It did.  I don't know what he talking.  It was about 3pm when I heard on my pocket radio leaving the TOEFL center.  I went home and continued listening on the house radio!

I was at the seawall with my parents that afternoon and coming home toward evening we heard it on the radio.

what time was that? . . . definitely after 5:00 pm

Baseman's 3:00 pm is full of sh!t

FM
Iguana posted:
ronan posted:

the suicides went down that Saturday night

and as i noted before, the shootings at Port Kaituma airstrip occurred approx. 5:00 pm that day . . . news could only have reached GT that evening 

NBC was reporting the murder of Congressman Ryan late that Saturday night . . . the mass murder/suicides were a next day developing story

timelines please

Not sure about the timing of the suicides other than it was the Saturday as well. Re the event, yes, we heard it on the radio that evening, though only that something about a murder of Americans at "Jonestown", but the gravity of the disaster was unknown.

that murder of Americans you are referring to is the Airstrip shootings which was known in GT that Saturday evening

the Jonestown suicides went down well into Saturday night . . . and NO ONE knew until Sunday

FM
Iguana posted:
ronan posted:

the suicides went down that Saturday night

and as i noted before, the shootings at Port Kaituma airstrip occurred approx. 5:00 pm that day . . . news could only have reached GT that evening 

NBC was reporting the murder of Congressman Ryan late that Saturday night . . . the mass murder/suicides were a next day developing story

timelines please

Not sure about the timing of the suicides other than it was the Saturday as well. Re the event, yes, we heard it on the radio that evening, though only that something about a murder of Americans at "Jonestown", but the gravity of the disaster was unknown.

Correct, I was a news junkie since then.  We kept hearing of the Congressman and crew.  It was not until 6am Sunday when (RD) Bobby Reece reported murder/suicide of 300-400.  Later that day a survivor who was brought to GT said he saw 1,000 or so at the settlement!  The thought then was the survivors ran into the jungle!!

FM
Baseman posted:
Iguana posted:
ronan posted:

the suicides went down that Saturday night

and as i noted before, the shootings at Port Kaituma airstrip occurred approx. 5:00 pm that day . . . news could only have reached GT that evening 

NBC was reporting the murder of Congressman Ryan late that Saturday night . . . the mass murder/suicides were a next day developing story

timelines please

Not sure about the timing of the suicides other than it was the Saturday as well. Re the event, yes, we heard it on the radio that evening, though only that something about a murder of Americans at "Jonestown", but the gravity of the disaster was unknown.

Correct, I was a news junkie since then.  We kept hearing of the Congressman and crew.  It was not until 6am Sunday when (RD) Bobby Reece reported murder/suicide of 300-400.  Later that day a survivor who was brought to GT said he saw 1,000 or so at the settlement!  The thought then was the survivors ran into the jungle!!

thank you! . . . welcome back from your "TOEFL" imaginings

FM
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:
Iguana posted:
ronan posted:

the suicides went down that Saturday night

and as i noted before, the shootings at Port Kaituma airstrip occurred approx. 5:00 pm that day . . . news could only have reached GT that evening 

NBC was reporting the murder of Congressman Ryan late that Saturday night . . . the mass murder/suicides were a next day developing story

timelines please

Not sure about the timing of the suicides other than it was the Saturday as well. Re the event, yes, we heard it on the radio that evening, though only that something about a murder of Americans at "Jonestown", but the gravity of the disaster was unknown.

Correct, I was a news junkie since then.  We kept hearing of the Congressman and crew.  It was not until 6am Sunday when (RD) Bobby Reece reported murder/suicide of 300-400.  Later that day a survivor who was brought to GT said he saw 1,000 or so at the settlement!  The thought then was the survivors ran into the jungle!!

thank you! . . . welcome back from your "TOEFL" imaginings

Listen shakabatty.  I said the initial flash of a shooting of Americans broke Saturday afternoon (3/4pm).  It was not until Sunday morn that mass suicide/killing were reported!!

Which part you don't understand?

FM
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Listen shakabatty.  I said the initial flash of a shooting of Americans broke Saturday afternoon (3/4pm).

known prevaricator! bold face LIAR!

there was NO SUCH radio report at 3:30 pm on your "radio" when you left your "TOEFL" exam

Congressman Ryan was still alive at that time

You may be talking US time.  Anyway, that news broke Saturday afternoon, not Sunday.  I know where I was and what I was doing!  Now guh shake yuh batty!!

FM
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Listen shakabatty.  I said the initial flash of a shooting of Americans broke Saturday afternoon (3/4pm).

known prevaricator! bold face LIAR!

there was NO SUCH radio report at 3:30 pm on your "radio" when you left your "TOEFL" exam

Congressman Ryan was still alive at that time

You may be talking US time.

Nonsense!

i don't "may" nothing . . . you simply got caught in an unnecessary lie

your compulsions are your downfall

give it up banna . . . i'm actually becoming embarrassed for you

FM
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Listen shakabatty.  I said the initial flash of a shooting of Americans broke Saturday afternoon (3/4pm).

known prevaricator! bold face LIAR!

there was NO SUCH radio report at 3:30 pm on your "radio" when you left your "TOEFL" exam

Congressman Ryan was still alive at that time

You may be talking US time.

Nonsense!

i don't "may" nothing . . . you simply got caught in an unnecessary lie

your compulsions are your downfall

give it up banna . . . i'm actually becoming embarrassed for you

Listen banna, it was Saturday afternoon, I took the TOEFL that day!  My exact timing might be off by 1/2 hours, but that is a fact.  It broke Saturday, the actual mass killing was first reported Sunday morn.  It was 40 years ago!!  It was not suppressed for two days as Django claimed.

Those are facts...go back , and check the US embassy records if the TOEFL was not conducted in Nov 18, 1978.

Now guh shake yuh batty!

FM
Iguana posted:
Baseman posted:

It did.  I don't know what he talking.  It was about 3pm when I heard on my pocket radio leaving the TOEFL center.  I went home and continued listening on the house radio!

I was at the seawall with my parents that afternoon and coming home toward evening we heard it on the radio.

You could be correct!  But it did break that Saturday, not two days later!

FM
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Listen shakabatty.  I said the initial flash of a shooting of Americans broke Saturday afternoon (3/4pm).

known prevaricator! bold face LIAR!

there was NO SUCH radio report at 3:30 pm on your "radio" when you left your "TOEFL" exam

Congressman Ryan was still alive at that time

You may be talking US time.

Nonsense!

i don't "may" nothing . . . you simply got caught in an unnecessary lie

your compulsions are your downfall

give it up banna . . . i'm actually becoming embarrassed for you

Listen banna, it was Saturday afternoon, I took the TOEFL that day!  My exact timing might be off by 1/2 hours, but that is a fact.  It broke Saturday, the actual mass killing was first reported Sunday morn.  It was 40 years ago!!  It was not suppressed for two days as Django claimed.

Those are facts...go back , and check the US embassy records if the TOEFL was not conducted in Nov 18, 1978.

well, i never disputed that you took the TOEFL that day

we also agree that the airstrip news broke Saturday and that the mass killings were first reported on Sunday

however, we part company with your stupid, provable LIE that you heard a report of congressman Ryan's murder on your "pocket radio" at 3:00 pm that Saturday afternoon

your desperate straw men are getting more pitiful by the minute

FM
Last edited by Former Member
ronan posted:
Sheik101 posted:
ronan posted:
kp posted:

It was said that Viola Burnham and some security was first at the scene and they stole money and other valuables.

seriously . . .?

banna, not every moronic thing you hear in a rum shop is worth repeating

try using COMMON SENSE as a filter

smfh

Weh u been bai when dis thing happen.

stateside . . . after Saturday Night Live, breaking news on NBC 

You were in the USA and received the news at 11.30 pm on Saturday  night,  that is quoting what you stated. In Guyana those that had radio heard it on Saturday afternoon  sure many did not hear until Sunday. 

K
kp posted:
ronan posted:
Sheik101 posted:
ronan posted:
kp posted:

It was said that Viola Burnham and some security was first at the scene and they stole money and other valuables.

seriously . . .?

banna, not every moronic thing you hear in a rum shop is worth repeating

try using COMMON SENSE as a filter

smfh

Weh u been bai when dis thing happen.

stateside . . . after Saturday Night Live, breaking news on NBC 

You were in the USA and received the news at 11.30 pm on Saturday  night,  that is quoting what you stated. In Guyana those that had radio heard it on Saturday afternoon  sure many did not hear until Sunday. 

banna, try to keep up

arite?

FM
ronan posted:
Baseman posted:

Listen banna, it was Saturday afternoon, I took the TOEFL that day!  My exact timing might be off by 1/2 hours, but that is a fact.  It broke Saturday, the actual mass killing was first reported Sunday morn.  It was 40 years ago!!  It was not suppressed for two days as Django claimed.

Those are facts...go back , and check the US embassy records if the TOEFL was not conducted in Nov 18, 1978.

well, i never disputed that you took the TOEFL that day

we also agree that the airstrip news broke Saturday and that the mass killings were first reported on Sunday

however, we part company with your stupid, provable LIE that you heard a report of congressman Ryan's murder on your "pocket radio" at 3:00 pm that Saturday afternoon

your desperate straw men are getting more pitiful by the minute

Listen shakebatty, it was 40 years ago, if I missed the timing an hour or two and it makes your day, then feel good.  It's a bottom of the barrel point!

I heard it on my radio in the taxi car going home and went and continued listening at home!

FM
Last edited by Former Member

A few months ago I read Mark Lane's memoir, THE STRONGEST POISON. Lane was one of Jim Jones' attorneys. He was in Jonestown on November 18, 1978. Together with another US lawyer he escaped that night through the jungle. This book contains his eyewitness account of the last moments of the tragedy. 

Another book I had read was THE GUYANA MASSACRE by Charles A Krause who had accompanied Congressman Leo Ryan's party to Port Kaituma.

FM
Gilbakka posted:

One more tidbit: The People's Temple owned a fine looking ship named ALBATROSS. A few times I had seen it moored alongside John Fernandes wharf. At that time very few ships were entering Port Georgetown because of the massive banning of foreign goods. So, the ALBATROSS stood out in the Demerara river.

I was trying to remember the 2nd ship.  I believe they also owned one called Jitterbug.

FM
Gilbakka posted:
kp posted:

If Gill was giving a test almost all of us would fail, the question was , Where was you??? and not what time it was, what were you doing and who broke the news. I was travelling in a taxi on West Coast Demerara.

It's OK, KP. The extra info is interesting too. 

Is it true that the Burnham Gov't and parties involved on the US side denied Jim Jones request to close down the People's Temple at Jonestown and return to the US several times.  And out of frustration he committed the massacre?

Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Gilbakka posted:
kp posted:

If Gill was giving a test almost all of us would fail, the question was , Where was you??? and not what time it was, what were you doing and who broke the news. I was travelling in a taxi on West Coast Demerara.

It's OK, KP. The extra info is interesting too. 

Is it true that the Burnham Gov't and parties involved on the US side denied Jim Jones request to close down the People's Temple at Jonestown and return to the US several times.  And out of frustration he committed the massacre?

No !!

Firstly Jonestown was short lived in Guyana.

Django
Last edited by Django
VishMahabir posted:

What did Burnham or Guyana get from allowing Jim Jones to get that land in the interior?

The purpose of establishing Jonestown was to give the US and Guyana a settlement close to the Venezuela border to keep the Spanish neighbors in check.  It was believed that eventually a military base and further expansion of a community with schools, hospitals, etc would have been built there.  

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:
VishMahabir posted:

What did Burnham or Guyana get from allowing Jim Jones to get that land in the interior?

The purpose of establishing Jonestown was to give the US and Guyana a settlement close to the Venezuela border to keep the Spanish neighbors in check.  It was believed that eventually a military base and further expansion of a community with schools, hospitals, etc would have been built there.  

From what i read ,US had no part in that strategy, it's more of a thought from Burnham.

Django
Django posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
VishMahabir posted:

What did Burnham or Guyana get from allowing Jim Jones to get that land in the interior?

The purpose of establishing Jonestown was to give the US and Guyana a settlement close to the Venezuela border to keep the Spanish neighbors in check.  It was believed that eventually a military base and further expansion of a community with schools, hospitals, etc would have been built there.  

From what i read ,US had no part in that strategy, it's more of a thought from Burnham.

Was nothing to do with a US strategy!  Why would the US plant their (aging) citizens in a disputed territory to form a buttress against a claim which the US Govt supported at that time!!

FM
Django posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Gilbakka posted:
kp posted:

If Gill was giving a test almost all of us would fail, the question was , Where was you??? and not what time it was, what were you doing and who broke the news. I was travelling in a taxi on West Coast Demerara.

It's OK, KP. The extra info is interesting too. 

Is it true that the Burnham Gov't and parties involved on the US side denied Jim Jones request to close down the People's Temple at Jonestown and return to the US several times.  And out of frustration he committed the massacre?

No !!

Firstly Jonestown was short lived in Guyana.

Why would the US deny JJ (a US Citizen) request to return with his flock (US citizens) to the US then send a Congressman and team to investigate if Americans are being held against their will!  It was the desire by some to return which triggered the entire affair.

FM
Baseman posted:
Django posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Gilbakka posted:
kp posted:

If Gill was giving a test almost all of us would fail, the question was , Where was you??? and not what time it was, what were you doing and who broke the news. I was travelling in a taxi on West Coast Demerara.

It's OK, KP. The extra info is interesting too. 

Is it true that the Burnham Gov't and parties involved on the US side denied Jim Jones request to close down the People's Temple at Jonestown and return to the US several times.  And out of frustration he committed the massacre?

No !!

Firstly Jonestown was short lived in Guyana.

Why would the US deny JJ (a US Citizen) request to return with his flock (US citizens) to the US then send a Congressman and team to investigate if Americans are being held against their will!  It was the desire by some to return which triggered the entire affair.

Correct.

Django

The news of the shootings was on the radio Saturday night but I did not know the full extent of everything that was happening up at Jonestown. The first time I heard the news was around 8. Saturday nights we always went to the Bow and Arrow disco at Pegasus. We got there about 12 and there was police and GDF outside the hotel. A few American personnel were also swarming around. Not sure if they were from Ryan’s delegation staying at the Pegasus or FBI coming in. 

I knew two of the girls causally because they would come into my Aunt’s business place on Saturdays and beg for money. They told us about the church at Jonestown but I never knew that they had so many people up there. I also knew of the house they had in Lamaha Gardens. We used to take a shortcut from Lamaha Gardens into Prashad Nagar and the house was right there. You couldn’t miss it because they had a huge antenna probably used for communicating with Jonestown.

Mars
Last edited by Mars
Gilbakka posted:

One more tidbit: The People's Temple owned a fine looking ship named ALBATROSS. A few times I had seen it moored alongside John Fernandes wharf. At that time very few ships were entering Port Georgetown because of the massive banning of foreign goods. So, the ALBATROSS stood out in the Demerara river.

Was the Albatross owned by the People's Temple or the US Navy? Some of the people and their belongings came on the ship.

Bibi Haniffa
Bibi Haniffa posted:

Is it true that the Burnham Gov't and parties involved on the US side denied Jim Jones request to close down the People's Temple at Jonestown and return to the US several times.  And out of frustration he committed the massacre?

According to Mark Lane, Jim Jones wanted to return to the US only to answer criminal charges. But his senior lawyer Charles R Garry warned him to stay in Guyana. Garry told Jones that certain US agencies were conspiring to destroy the People's Temple.

Jim Jones believed the US government indeed wanted to crush his Temple and he wrote the Soviet Embassy in Guyana requesting permission to transfer his commune to the USSR. The Russians were reluctant to grant his request, though sympathetic. In one letter to the Soviet Ambassador, Jim Jones declared that he was a Marxist-Leninist and his Temple was socialist.

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Gilbakka posted:

One more tidbit: The People's Temple owned a fine looking ship named ALBATROSS. A few times I had seen it moored alongside John Fernandes wharf. At that time very few ships were entering Port Georgetown because of the massive banning of foreign goods. So, the ALBATROSS stood out in the Demerara river.

Was the Albatross owned by the People's Temple or the US Navy? Some of the people and their belongings came on the ship.

People's Temple property definitely. Info on the Internet.

FM

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