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FM
Former Member
Mandarin Chinese will be the language of interstellar travel
Posted on Jun 6th 2011 by Starr Keshet

As China prepares to overtake the United States as the world's economic superpower, it is quite clear to me that Mandarin Chinese - rather than American English - will be the language of interstellar travel.

IMHO, this is a rather positive development, as the average American corporate drone is probably no better than your typical hyper-capitalist Ferengi.

Seriously, who in their right mind would want a team of overdressed, uptight and arrogant American bureaucrats dictating the rules of interstellar commerce? 

I sure as hell wouldn't. 



Besides, we are clearly an Empire in a less-than-graceful decline.

The federal government wastes billions on nonsensical pet projects but just can't be bothered to maintain a functional space program. We are also routinely (and embarrassingly) forced to "import" scientists and researchers from other countries which actually care about education.

And it shows.

Shanghai is fast becoming the new Tokyo, as the relevance of the United States slowly fades into the twilight of oblivion. Of course, most Americans, especially those who work in high-tech, are in complete denial about the paradigm shift occurring under their very noses.

"China violates human rights," they routinely whine. "The culture isn't conducive to creativity, they are ripping off our code and hardware."

Human rights? Let's not even go there. The United States is currently engaged in at least three wars, not to mention extensive covert operations in countries such as Pakistan. 



One can debate the morality of each conflict, but at the end of the day, America doesn't exactly have clean hands. Nor should it or could it, because from a Machiavellian perspective, it is practically impossible for any nation to ensure security without taking certain unpleasant steps (at some point in time) to protect its borders. 


Still, American priorities are hopelessly mired in oil and self-defeating big business, leaving little room for an optimistic future. In contrast, China is booming as its economy neatly diversifies and rapidly expands.

But I digress.

Getting back to my original point, yes, Chinese engineers may "rip off" or "steal" certain aspects of base code, but under their tutelage, software and hardware are evolving at a remarkable pace.

Just look at the fierce competition between Chinese social networking sites Renren and Kaixin001. Unlike the United States where there is really only one Facebook (MySpace doesn't count), Renren and Kaixin001 are constantly rolling out new features and revising their UI in an effort to attract new members.

However, Facebook, in essence, hasn't radically changed since its inception. To make matters worse, it is still the only game in town, which doesn't exactly seem all that capitalist to me.

My point?

America is treading water across the board - barely able to stay afloat or innovate - while China has effectively switched on its afterburners.

So at this stage, it appears to be the nation most likely to invest in a viable space program; which will allow Beijing to send manned expeditions throughout our solar system, establish space stations, mining facilities and even colonize planets.

Yes, America had its opportunity, once long ago, but preferred to explore the galaxy on television, rather than in real life. 
It's time to give China a chance.

I, for one, look forward to an interstellar future. If Beijing rather than Washington wants to lead the way, fine with me. 

Let's just get there already.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Nice using American scifi to debunk supposedly American lack of creativity in space exploration. Again, Chinese is a tonal language. It lacks the precision to be a scientific language. English itself will need more improving but it is will be the substratum for language in the future.

Not because Joss Wheadon used broken Chinese in his wonderful firefly series that one may believe in the domination of Chinese. Even in the series it is used as invectives! Every on the ground research facility and auxiliary research facility involved is space science from microbiology to remote observing is in the west, English based and supported by scientists who speak English as their lingua franca.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
Nice using American scifi to debunk supposedly American lack of creativity in space exploration. Again, Chinese is a tonal language. It lacks the precision to be a scientific language. English itself will need more improving but it is will be the substratum for language in the future.

Not because Joss Wheadon used broken Chinese in his wonderful firefly series that one may believe in the domination of Chinese. Even in the series it is used as invectives! Every on the ground research facility and Hilliary research facility involved is space science from microbiology to remote observing is in the west, English based and supported by scientists who speak English as their lingua franca.

Listen, once the US empire collapses English will be as important as Russian.
FM
The issue of language is not the point here. The point is that China, despite being still a Third World country with enormous problems, is committed to progress, while the US, a formerly great nation, is committed to bailing out British investment bankers.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
The issue of language is not the point here. The point is that China, despite being still a Third World country with enormous problems, is committed to progress, while the US, a formerly great nation, is committed to bailing out British investment bankers.
It also spends billion bailing out Africa and South America's from its HIV problems. Meanwhile, it is light years ahead in space science. China does not even have good ground based telescopes.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
China can't even put a man on the moon yet (can you say 1969)
Right now, they are much closer to going there than is the US.
Been there, done that and can go back there if we really wanted to. America's space program and military hardware is far superior to anything that China has.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by André:
Been there, done that and can go back there if we really wanted to.
You are mistaken. For one thing, the US no longer has anything close to the skilled labor force that existed in 1969. Most of the machine tool sector has been dismantled and shut down. I honestly don't think you have a clear idea of what it took to go to the moon.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
Been there, done that and can go back there if we really wanted to.
You are mistaken. For one thing, the US no longer has anything close to the skilled labor force that existed in 1969. Most of the machine tool sector has been dismantled and shut down. I honestly don't think you have a clear idea of what it took to go to the moon.

1969!!! Bai the US crushed the USSR due to it's output and technology. You are underestimating the dexterity of American technology and workforce. China is doing well, but they are way behind. Remember, the USSR was ahead in the late 50's to see the US emerge as the victor. China will do things in space, but will not overtake the US, in any area.
FM
American are replacing its military with stealth technology and laser weaponry. They're ready to fight space aliens if needed. America taps into Hollywood once in a while for ideas of the future.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Cobra:
American are replacing its military with stealth technology and laser weaponry. They're ready to fight space aliens if needed. America taps into Hollywood once in a while for ideas of the future.

the US got a lap on everybody.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
Been there, done that and can go back there if we really wanted to.
You are mistaken. For one thing, the US no longer has anything close to the skilled labor force that existed in 1969. Most of the machine tool sector has been dismantled and shut down. I honestly don't think you have a clear idea of what it took to go to the moon.


Dude, the U.S. Space program of today is far superior to what it was in 1969 and miles ahead of any other country. It's not even close. My home computer is more powerful than the one they used in Apollo 13. The modern communications systems are far beyond what they were in 1969. Robotic systems are far more advanced. We've sent many missions to the moon and Mars since, many of them using robots as what is there to prove with putting a man there. Like I said before been there, done that. They are sending missions to other planets Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Mercury, putting telescopes in space, the Skylab, International Space Station, Space Shuttles. etc., etc. What has China done in comparison? Celebrated its first manned space walk in 2008? Get real eh.
FM
Dude, your home computer is a direct result of what was done with Apollo. It didn't invent itself. We are doing nothing today that truly challenges our nation to progress; in the words of Neil Armstrong, the Obama space policy is a “long downhill slide to mediocrity”. 27 other astronauts and NASA leaders called the present policy “wrong for our country” and “misguided”. And the article quoted at the beginning of this thread is substantially correct. I don't want to argue this further; I think that you are misinformed.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by André:
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
Been there, done that and can go back there if we really wanted to.
You are mistaken. For one thing, the US no longer has anything close to the skilled labor force that existed in 1969. Most of the machine tool sector has been dismantled and shut down. I honestly don't think you have a clear idea of what it took to go to the moon.


Dude, the U.S. Space program of today is far superior to what it was in 1969 and miles ahead of any other country. It's not even close. My home computer is more powerful than the one they used in Apollo 13. The modern communications systems are far beyond what they were in 1969. Robotic systems are far more advanced. We've sent many missions to the moon and Mars since, many of them using robots as what is there to prove with putting a man there. Like I said before been there, done that. They are sending missions to other planets Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Mercury, putting telescopes in space, the Skylab, International Space Station, Space Shuttles. etc., etc. What has China done in comparison? Celebrated its first manned space walk in 2008? Get real eh.
The Cassini mission landed a craft called Huygens on Titan close to a decade ago. The Keck telescope is a ground based telescope that is better than Hubbble! Then there is th WMAP solar max and a dozen more on going crafts in the air and more on the way. China is yet to successfully keep on in near earth orbit
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
Dude, your home computer is a direct result of what was done with Apollo. It didn't invent itself. We are doing nothing today that truly challenges our nation to progress; in the words of Neil Armstrong, the Obama space policy is a “long downhill slide to mediocrity”. 27 other astronauts and NASA leaders called the present policy “wrong for our country” and “misguided”. And the article quoted at the beginning of this thread is substantially correct. I don't want to argue this further; I think that you are misinformed.


I've been writing programs for computers since 1978 so spare me the lesson. There's nothing you can teach me about them. Anyone can say that another is misinformed but it sounds shallow when I'm stating facts and you're beating around the bush with nothing to disprove what I have to say. The fact remains that the US Space program is light years ahead of China and any other country on the planet. You could talk fraff all you want but you can't change that.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by André:
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
Dude, your home computer is a direct result of what was done with Apollo. It didn't invent itself. We are doing nothing today that truly challenges our nation to progress; in the words of Neil Armstrong, the Obama space policy is a “long downhill slide to mediocrity”. 27 other astronauts and NASA leaders called the present policy “wrong for our country” and “misguided”. And the article quoted at the beginning of this thread is substantially correct. I don't want to argue this further; I think that you are misinformed.


I've been writing programs for computers since 1978 so spare me the lesson. There's nothing you can teach me about them. Anyone can say that another is misinformed but it sounds shallow when I'm stating facts and you're beating around the bush with nothing to disprove what I have to say. The fact remains that the US Space program is light years ahead of China and any other country on the planet. You could talk fraff all you want but you can't change that.

It is light-years ahead but in the paper. There is no more money for US space adventures. AT the end, the US will end up selling all its space projects and technology to China in order to pay its debts. On the other hand, US maybe ahead of China in the weaponization of space, but what brings technological breakthroughs is space exploration, a field in which the USA has started to falter.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
Dude, your home computer is a direct result of what was done with Apollo. It didn't invent itself. We are doing nothing today that truly challenges our nation to progress; in the words of Neil Armstrong, the Obama space policy is a “long downhill slide to mediocrity”. 27 other astronauts and NASA leaders called the present policy “wrong for our country” and “misguided”. And the article quoted at the beginning of this thread is substantially correct. I don't want to argue this further; I think that you are misinformed.


I've been writing programs for computers since 1978 so spare me the lesson. There's nothing you can teach me about them. Anyone can say that another is misinformed but it sounds shallow when I'm stating facts and you're beating around the bush with nothing to disprove what I have to say. The fact remains that the US Space program is light years ahead of China and any other country on the planet. You could talk fraff all you want but you can't change that.

It is light-years ahead but in the paper. There is no more money for US space adventures. AT the end, the US will end up selling all its space projects and technology to China in order to pay its debts. On the other hand, US maybe ahead of China in the weaponization of space, but what brings technological breakthroughs is space exploration, a field in which the USA has started to falter.
China does not exist without the US market. Shut it down and the Chinese will face revolt from the starvation at home. The us debt is largely paper. The money is in US hands. Those who robbed the people live right here and not in China. The Paper the Chinese hold represent the money they got swindled out of and alas, the poor have to pay it. If the nation was a bank the chinese would be screwed. We are bailing them out.

Any measure of faltering is against their own efforts! The chinese are technologically behind. They do not build anything from their native research. They are mere fabricators. Fortunately for the US, if they begin to act as if the cold war is upon us again it is the Chinese who will be screwed. That is exactly what some in Congress is whispering about. Don't think Trump was being all nutty by himself.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
The issue of language is not the point here. The point is that China, despite being still a Third World country with enormous problems, is committed to progress, while the US, a formerly great nation, is committed to bailing out British investment bankers.
It also spends billion bailing out Africa and South America's from its HIV problems. Meanwhile, it is light years ahead in space science. China does not even have good ground based telescopes.

D2,
what you claim here is utterly excremental.
US foreign help comes in the form of weapons and missiles. Over 90% of US foreign help actually goes to Israel. Practically the entire budget of that country is based on US help, and this is mostly used to demolish Palestinian villages, build Jewish settlements and bomb neighbouring countries. What Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya are receiving is what could be defined as US help, the utter obliteration of those countries.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
The issue of language is not the point here. The point is that China, despite being still a Third World country with enormous problems, is committed to progress, while the US, a formerly great nation, is committed to bailing out British investment bankers.
It also spends billion bailing out Africa and South America's from its HIV problems. Meanwhile, it is light years ahead in space science. China does not even have good ground based telescopes.

D2,
what you claim here is utterly excremental.
US foreign help comes in the form of weapons and missiles. Over 90% of US foreign help actually goes to Israel. Practically the entire budget of that country is based on US help, and this is mostly used to demolish Palestinian villages, build Jewish settlements and bomb neighbouring countries. What Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya are receiving is what could be defined as US help, the utter obliteration of those countries.
Only to a dunce. 4 to 10 billion goes to Israel. There is 34 billion in the till for HIV. Another 8 to 10 is being asked for by the UN. Only the US stands here to provide that cash. India is providing the drugs at a low production cost. The truth is that Africa is not a depopulated land because the US was there. The Ugandans acknowledge that the Kenyans acknowledge that and even Guyana with its yapping mouth about imperialism benefits from the US push to reduce deaths by HIV
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
100 billion go to Israel. It is not for nothing that many call it the 51st State of the Union.
The Israeli are leaders of finance in the US so it is clear they will get a hand up over others for grants for technology etc. They are expert programmers and do all the military industrial complex grunt work in technology. Where do you think we should farm that off to...China?
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
The Israeli are leaders of finance in the US so it is clear they will get a hand up over others for grants for technology etc. They are expert programmers and do all the military industrial complex grunt work in technology...


...where they are known for installing "back doors" that give them illegal access to classified US data.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
The Israeli are leaders of finance in the US so it is clear they will get a hand up over others for grants for technology etc. They are expert programmers and do all the military industrial complex grunt work in technology...


...where they are known for installing "back doors" that give them illegal access to classified US data.
DOnt doubt that but it may be a tacit agreement.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
100 billion go to Israel. It is not for nothing that many call it the 51st State of the Union.
The Israeli are leaders of finance in the US so it is clear they will get a hand up over others for grants for technology etc. They are expert programmers and do all the military industrial complex grunt work in technology. Where do you think we should farm that off to...China?

Remember Stuxnet!!
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
Dude, your home computer is a direct result of what was done with Apollo. It didn't invent itself. We are doing nothing today that truly challenges our nation to progress; in the words of Neil Armstrong, the Obama space policy is a “long downhill slide to mediocrity”. 27 other astronauts and NASA leaders called the present policy “wrong for our country” and “misguided”. And the article quoted at the beginning of this thread is substantially correct. I don't want to argue this further; I think that you are misinformed.


I've been writing programs for computers since 1978 so spare me the lesson. There's nothing you can teach me about them. Anyone can say that another is misinformed but it sounds shallow when I'm stating facts and you're beating around the bush with nothing to disprove what I have to say. The fact remains that the US Space program is light years ahead of China and any other country on the planet. You could talk fraff all you want but you can't change that.

It is light-years ahead but in the paper. There is no more money for US space adventures. AT the end, the US will end up selling all its space projects and technology to China in order to pay its debts. On the other hand, US maybe ahead of China in the weaponization of space, but what brings technological breakthroughs is space exploration, a field in which the USA has started to falter.


If you had stopped at "It is light-years ahead", you would have made perfect sense. Are you that dense to actually believe that the US will sell all of its space projects and technology to one of its biggest rivals in China? The next thing you'll be telling me is the US will sell all of its military programs and hardware to China to raise funds. You have to be among the looniest birds to write on this forum in a long time.

The US is still the world leader in space exploration and again by light years. I can name at least a hundred substantial missions that the US has successfully completed in the field of space exploration in the last half century. Can you name me a few that the Chinese have even attempted? The highlight of their space program was a manned space walk in 2008. The US was doing this in the 1960's. At least 40 years ahead of China.
FM
The US is systematically shutting down all manned space missions, weather satellites, and many other programs. China, on the other hand, has an ambitious schedule of missions planned. The US no longer has capabilities it once had. The US would be incapable of going to the moon today, and it would take decades to recover the capabilities we had in 1969. It takes more than software to go to the moon.

It is also not so much a question of what a nation is doing at this moment in time, but what is that nation's trajectory: is it advancing, or declining? In the cases of the US and China, the answer is clear.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
The US is systematically shutting down all manned space missions, weather satellites, and many other programs. China, on the other hand, has an ambitious schedule of missions planned. The US no longer has capabilities it once had. The US would be incapable of going to the moon today, and it would take decades to recover the capabilities we had in 1969. It takes more than software to go to the moon.

It is also not so much a question of what a nation is doing at this moment in time, but what is that nation's trajectory: is it advancing, or declining? In the cases of the US and China, the answer is clear.

The only stretched but feasible manned mission is to Mars. However, unmanned and robotics have improved immensely over the decades so it pushes off the need for a manned flight further, the incremental value is less and less. The unmanned missions have done what any manned mission could accomplish. In addition to that, unless there is some new form of propulsion, it takes 6 months one way so 12 months total and the human body and muscle tissue degenerate rapidly in weightlessness. It is doubtful a human would survive, especially as they re-enter the gravity of earth.

There is an enormous number of complexities associated with long manned space flight, and the mechanical technicalities are not the major hurdle. The Russians have been the leader in this field and even they are apprehensive. There will be a time with artificial gravity and a whole host of other human biological complexities will be overcome which will make it more viable, and I can almost guarantee you, it will be "made in the USA".

Until then, the advanced robotics of the USA will ensure the US will be the furthest out in space.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
The US is systematically shutting down all manned space missions, weather satellites, and many other programs. China, on the other hand, has an ambitious schedule of missions planned. The US no longer has capabilities it once had. The US would be incapable of going to the moon today, and it would take decades to recover the capabilities we had in 1969. It takes more than software to go to the moon.

It is also not so much a question of what a nation is doing at this moment in time, but what is that nation's trajectory: is it advancing, or declining? In the cases of the US and China, the answer is clear.


The US is shutting down manned space missions temporarily after the shuttle program ends. They have missions in progress all over the solar system. What mission does China currently have in progress? A manned space walk that we did in the 1960's?
FM
quote:
Originally posted by baseman:
quote:

What does this tell us?
That the Chinese will be worrying to do something a decade from now that was already done many times decades ago while the US spends its money to perfect its rocket engines, and building tech to maintain a viable platform in space so we can live there in safety permanently and that when we go back we can do so with possibility of rescue if failure occurs. The west already has a permanently occupied space platform with on going experiments that cannot be duplicated on the ground.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Lucas:
quote:
Originally posted by baseman:
quote:

What does this tell us?

It tell us that the Magellans and the Columbuses of Space Exploration haven't been born yet.
There will never be a Magellan or a Columbus in space. We have little prospects of living on any planet or satellite except the moon or Mars. We no know every location so there is no Columbus or Magellan prospects. We would be better to explore these with robot vehicles. And we cannot leave. To travel to even the nearest stars is a hundreds of generational enterprise.
FM
British Empire's Economist Claims: "End of Space Age"

July 4, 2011 • 8:51PM

Spitting in the face of mankind on the United States' Independence Day, The Economist runs a cover story titled "The end of the Space Age — Inner space is useful. Outer space is history," with a picture of the Shuttle fading into the background. The voice of the Empire emphasizes the destruction of the "myth" of the extra-terrestrial imperative. With the death of the shuttle and Obama's elimination of manned space flight, they write, "The fantasy-made-reality of human space flight will return to fantasy. It is likely that the Space Age is over — 2011 might, in the history books of the future, be seen as the year when the space cadets' dream finally died."

With the Shuttle ending this year, next on the Queen's cutting block is the "benighted International Space Station (ISS), surely the biggest waste of money, at $100 billion and counting, that has ever been built in the name of science."

In fact, The Economist editorial declares that the British Empire's victory over the American will to progress came by means of their destruction of the world economy — or, as they say with a sneer: "No bucks, no Buck Rogers."

Even more important to the Fabian nazis is their claim to have successfully destroyed the American spirit: "There is no appetite to return to the Moon, let alone push on to Mars, the El Dorado of space exploration. The technology could be there, but the passion has gone — at least in the traditional spacefaring powers, America and Russia." There is the problem of China, which is trying to recreate JFK's mobilization of the nation's science and its spirit of human progress, but, they claim, "there is none of Kennedy's 'by the end of the decade' bravura about the announcements from Beijing," implying that perhaps the Empire has time to sabotage their efforts as well.

Although it is certain that the royal servants at The Economist are keeping a close watch on LaRouche and the Basement team at LaRouchePAC, they certainly don't wish to mention it in this effort to declare victory over the American System.
source

Interesting that they refer to Mars as El Dorado.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
British Empire's Economist Claims: "End of Space Age"

July 4, 2011 • 8:51PM

Spitting in the face of mankind on the United States' Independence Day, The Economist runs a cover story titled "The end of the Space Age — Inner space is useful. Outer space is history," with a picture of the Shuttle fading into the background. The voice of the Empire emphasizes the destruction of the "myth" of the extra-terrestrial imperative. With the death of the shuttle and Obama's elimination of manned space flight, they write, "The fantasy-made-reality of human space flight will return to fantasy. It is likely that the Space Age is over — 2011 might, in the history books of the future, be seen as the year when the space cadets' dream finally died."

With the Shuttle ending this year, next on the Queen's cutting block is the "benighted International Space Station (ISS), surely the biggest waste of money, at $100 billion and counting, that has ever been built in the name of science."

In fact, The Economist editorial declares that the British Empire's victory over the American will to progress came by means of their destruction of the world economy — or, as they say with a sneer: "No bucks, no Buck Rogers."

Even more important to the Fabian nazis is their claim to have successfully destroyed the American spirit: "There is no appetite to return to the Moon, let alone push on to Mars, the El Dorado of space exploration. The technology could be there, but the passion has gone — at least in the traditional spacefaring powers, America and Russia." There is the problem of China, which is trying to recreate JFK's mobilization of the nation's science and its spirit of human progress, but, they claim, "there is none of Kennedy's 'by the end of the decade' bravura about the announcements from Beijing," implying that perhaps the Empire has time to sabotage their efforts as well.

Although it is certain that the royal servants at The Economist are keeping a close watch on LaRouche and the Basement team at LaRouchePAC, they certainly don't wish to mention it in this effort to declare victory over the American System.
source

Interesting that they refer to Mars as El Dorado.
The person in the economist is plain uninformed. The shuttle is too costly. It is easier to use heavy lift vehicles for the types of loads we need for lunar and martian missions. We further need to redesign our satellites to be modular and capable to be resupplied by drones. If more repair is needed or we are to recycle them they can be picked up and deposited at our space station

The space station is giving us a wealth of scientific understanding not available otherwise. It is also the pest stepping stone to space. We are made of star stuff. We are not of earth. Even the earth is of the stars. We are simply returning from whence we came. We as an intelligent specie is the universe apprehending itself and as such there are more places for the universe to look at itself.
FM

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