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FM
Former Member

‘Motion not carried’

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Attorney General and Minister of Legal Affairs, Basil Williams

…Speaker may review no-confidence vote
…as legal opinions swirl over one-half plus one
…UK similarities seen in what constitutes a majority

SPEAKER of the National Assembly, Dr Barton Scotland may be asked to rule at the next sitting that the vote of no-confidence in the government was not carried, even as legal opinions regarding a mathematical formula continue to make the rounds in the public domain.

Following the debate of the motion and Charrandas Persaud shockingly voting with the opposition to oust the government, Dr Scotland in his closing remarks, although stating that the motion had been carried, said that the “consequences” will be dealt with at another time. “Honourable members, you’ve heard the results of the vote– 33 in favour and 32 against, it means that the motion is carried. What happens hereafter honourable members is that we will continue the work; we will complete the work of this evening and then we will deal with the consequences of this,” he said.

Speaker of the National Assembly, Dr Barton Scotland

A top attorney in the country had stated on Monday that with the National Assembly being an independent arm of the State, the Speaker at the next sitting of the House can be invited to revisit his interpretation. “I would imagine the Speaker, being as prudent as I know him to be, would probably seek the advice of senior counsel locally and internationally to assist him in the interpretation of that section,” attorney-at-law Nigel

Hughes had stated.
Meanwhile, contacted on the issue on Wednesday, Attorney General Basil Williams would only say that the Cabinet Sub-committee, working to examine all the legal opinions surrounding the no-confidence motion, continued its work on Wednesday under his chairmanship. The other members of the committee are: Vice President and Minister of Foreign Affairs, Carl Greenidge; Minister of Public Security Khemraj Ramjattan and Minister of Natural Resources Raphael Trotman. In a statement on Monday, government stated that Cabinet examined all of the legal and constitutional aspects of the vote in the National Assembly on Friday and referred the matter to the sub-committee. That sub-committee’s task is to examine all the legal opinions available and report to Cabinet today with recommendations on the way forward.

UK using same formula
Meanwhile, the mathematical means being suggested by a number of local and international attorneys to settle Guyana’s vote of “majority” in the House is not unfounded as the United Kingdom (UK), just recently, used the same formula although at the end, Prime Minister Theresa May won by several votes clear.

Since the vote on the motion– 33:32 on December 21, 2018, legal arguments have surfaced stating that the number of votes which carried the motion is inadequate. With one-half of the House mathematically equaling to 32.5 members, half of the House would therefore be 33 members, thereby suggesting that a total of 34 votes would be needed to secure the majority.

In one of the most recent and similar cases this month, UK Prime Minister Theresa May won the confidence vote regarding her leadership after it was challenged by a number of Conservative Members of Parliament. However, prior to the vote, international news agencies widely reported that May needed “at least 159 out of 315 Conservative MPs” to win by a simple majority.

Similar to Guyana’s uneven number of 65 sitting members of the National Assembly, when the UK’s 315 total is divided, it arrives at 157.5 members.

This figure was rounded off to158 as what represents half of the total number of members while an extra vote [159] would represent a majority.

This is cited in a CNBC article on December 12 titled ‘UK Prime Minister Theresa May wins confidence vote, but faces uphill battle to pass Brexit deal’ where it states: “May needed a simple majority (at least 159 out of 315 Conservative MPs) to win the confidence vote. Winning this vote means her leadership cannot be challenged for another year now.” May eventually secured 200 votes, staving off the motion.

Hughes had also put forward, this week, a number of other cases where a similar case of what constitutes the “majority” was debated. These included the Kliman v Speaker of Parliament of the Republic of Vanuatu; Hughes v Rogers Civil Suit 99 and 101 of 1999. Anguilla. Delivered Jan 12, 2000.

Unchartered waters
The passing of the motion puts Guyana somewhat in ‘unchartered waters’ as, should it ultimately be approved, it would be the first time that the government would have to resign to hold elections in 90 days.

According to a post made yesterday on social media by the Office of the Prime Minister, it stated: “Guyana has entered unchartered waters with that vote, and legal opinions have since been expressed, and are being expressed, as to whether it satisfies requirements of the Constitution for the resignation of the duly elected government. In the meantime, the government remains at work.”

Attorney, Nigel Hughes

It is suspected that with the new interrogations regarding the legitimacy of the no-confidence motion and the legal interpretations of what constitutes a majority, the government may very well request a revision. As for Persaud, while several persons from the opposition have hailed him a “hero,” others, in their observations of how the events played out, are questioning the involvement of the Opposition and their affiliates.

Some are even speculating that the former MP received payment in return for his sound position of “yes, yes, yes” during the Friday evening unfolding. Persaud, who fled the country shortly after his vote, has since denied the latter, stating that his vote against the government was guided purely by his “conscience”.

However, should it ever be revealed that the former MP had indeed colluded with outside forces and, more importantly, accepted a bribe in exchange for his vote, legal consequences could result. The House is expected to convene again on Thursday, January 3, 2019.

http://guyanachronicle.com/201...7/motion-not-carried

Replies sorted oldest to newest

seignet posted:

The problem in Guyana is too many damn lawyers in parliament. For crying out, nobody there is an economist, engineer or an ordinary person.

Dey all living off the poor man taxpayers.

For a small nation, they are abound and more wants to be in the field.

Django
Django posted:
seignet posted:

The problem in Guyana is too many damn lawyers in parliament. For crying out, nobody there is an economist, engineer or an ordinary person.

Dey all living off the poor man taxpayers.

For a small nation, they are abound and more wants to be in the field.

..not unusual. Look at the US. Vast majority in the US congress and senate are lawyers. Most never ran a business, or created anything useful. Just talkers. 

FM

Bai me agree dat 33 is de majority. Dat dem should get eleckshun. De problem is dem man gat to keep powah. Nat dis de Labba was tellin ayoo? Dat PPP will win but cyant get powah? Hey hey hey...dem man gat to bun down de town eventually. Hey hey hey...meh not wishin it...but even me who is wan dunce can see it. Hey hey hey...

FM

New maths in Guyana. 32.5 equals 33 but 33 is not greater than 32. PNC has never changed from their crooked ways. If the court doesn’t accept the UK example maybe PNC may an acceptable one on the moon.

FM

The good news for the PNC is that there is bigger properties to burn this time than back in 1963. Bigga bunfiah. Mo fiah slo fiah PNC style. Luckily meh live in paradise. This will teach this new generation that couldn’t appreciate PNC brutality a lesson that PNC should never be trusted.

FM

Predominant Black countries outside of African doan behave like Guyanese Blacks who lives in a multi-racial society. These ppl are baredfaced to the core, education doan help dem out from treacherous behavior.

S
seignet posted:

Predominant Black countries outside of African doan behave like Guyanese Blacks who lives in a multi-racial society. These ppl are baredfaced to the core, education doan help dem out from treacherous behavior.

Wait, yuh mean Charrandass is black?

FM
ksazma posted:

New maths in Guyana. 32.5 equals 33 but 33 is not greater than 32. PNC has never changed from their crooked ways. If the court doesn’t accept the UK example maybe PNC may an acceptable one on the moon.

PNCR/AFC new way fuh kountin ... 32 izz definitely greater than 33 ...

Now look 'ow vee-PNCR/AFC duzz kount ....

29, 30, 35, 34, 33, 32, den 31, and so on.

Suh yuh see ... 32 eez much much greater than 33.

Voilà .. dat is dee way vee-PNCR/AFC duz kount. 

FM
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

This reminds me of a minibus passenger who refused to pay his fare and demanded change from the conductor.  It's  Guyana we talking about.

Some Guyanese Blackman like to play wrong and strong.

FM

Dem bais think dem smart. 32.5 gets rounded up to the next whole number. All those 1-0 baseball and hockey games were draw. Only PNC crooks would devise such a stupid argument. But they know that they have history on their side as they can always resort to the mo fiah slo fiah method.

FM

Dem prappa wrong and strong. Dem can't push over Jagdeo. Jagdeo already received a certificate of the no confidence motion and ABC already indicated to Jagdeo that they would demand elections held after Jagdeo and Granger sit down in mid January.

Blackman can't try the wrong and strong thing anymore.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
yuji22 posted:

Dem prappa wrong and strong. Dem can't push over Jagdeo. Jagdeo already received a certificate of the no confidence motion and ABC already indicated to Jagdeo that they would demand elections held after Jagdeo and Granger sit down in mid January.

Blackman can't try the wrong and strong thing anymore.

Banna, you does talk a lot of stupidness, are you a follower or do you think for yourself ?

Django
yuji22 posted:

Dem prappa wrong and strong. Dem can't push over Jagdeo. Jagdeo already received a certificate of the no confidence motion and ABC already indicated to Jagdeo that they would demand elections held after Jagdeo and Granger sit down in mid January.

Blackman can't try the wrong and strong thing anymore.

One needs to be specific when using the term ABC countries.

Official, the three countries known as ABC are Argentina, Brazil and Chile.

Currently, the term ABC Countries is used loosely referring to America, Britain and Canada plus other combinations of countries.

FM
Iguana posted:
seignet posted:

Predominant Black countries outside of African doan behave like Guyanese Blacks who lives in a multi-racial society. These ppl are baredfaced to the core, education doan help dem out from treacherous behavior.

Wait, yuh mean Charrandass is black?

y doan u read.

S

How stupid these APNU/AFC look, if they can't do simple maths. how can they run the country. the lead advocate is Lawyer Nigel Hughes with his 32.5 votes.m maybe he bought his law degree.

K

Nigel is looking after his own interest here. He allegedly invested in heavily a law firm dealing in oil and it looks like things will go sour after the NC vote.

These chaps failed to realize that they were governing with a fragile coalition and a ONE seat majority and yet they behaved as it they were invincible.

Charandass put an end to wrong and strong PNC.

This is lesson in humility for these arrogant Pric**.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
seignet posted:

The problem in Guyana is too many damn lawyers in parliament. For crying out, nobody there is an economist, engineer or an ordinary person.

Dey all living off the poor man taxpayers.

On a few occasions I agree with you.

No wonder Guyana is the laughing stock of the English speaking Caribbean and Guyanese drink Bajan juices made from Brazilian concentrates, and flock to that island doing work that the locals don't want to do, at least not at the pay that Guyanese accept.

FM
ksazma posted:

Maybe Moses advised Jagdeo to file de NC motion.

Maybe even Granger.

1. Jagdeo == Moses --- Naaaaaaa nat at alllllllll.

2. Jagdeo and Granger --- Quite possible.

Perhaps the conversation between Granger and Jagdeo ---

Granger:  Man Jagdeo, this work load is prappa hard, hard, hard.

Jagdeo: -- It surely is, man Granger.

Granger: -- Can you put a no confidence motion in parliament?

Jagdeo: -- You sure you want that, man Granger.

Granger: -- Yes, yes, yes.

Jagdeo: -- Okay one will be there soon.

FM

in their frenzied sprint to a bottom where they get to defame and piss on Blackman in effigy, the howling pack of GNI race intoxicated DUNCES have lost sight that the “UK example” they wave with such brio actually SUPPORTS the Ramkarran/Hughes/PNC? position on the no-confidence vote threshold

Labba, drunk with race-baiting liquor substitute, has parked his (fake anyway) ‘intellectual rigor’ in he bt for the duration

mob behavior . . . brains (and facts) optional not tolerated

FM
Last edited by Former Member
caribny posted:
seignet posted:

The problem in Guyana is too many damn lawyers in parliament. For crying out, nobody there is an economist, engineer or an ordinary person.

Dey all living off the poor man taxpayers.

On a few occasions I agree with you.

No wonder Guyana is the laughing stock of the English speaking Caribbean and Guyanese drink Bajan juices made from Brazilian concentrates, and flock to that island doing work that the locals don't want to do, at least not at the pay that Guyanese accept.

Even if we were a country of the same of ppl, we would differ from time to time. That is okay that we disagree almost all the time. I am able to read how you feel about the race issues in our country. 

There was a time when I think a charismatic leader would talk some sense to the electorate. I now know that is an improbable dream.

I see educated men making arguments furthering the divide. I saw a government refusal to face the vote of a no confidence, they simply pro-rogue the parliament.

The question needs to be asked, "does the electorate knows they are being punished for their decisions at the ballot boxes."

S
seignet posted:
I see educated men making arguments furthering the divide. I saw a government refusal to face the vote of a no confidence, they simply pro-rogue the parliament.

Happens in many countries.

In 2008 the then Canadian Prime Minister who had a minority government dodges a no confidence motion by requesting the Governor General to prorogue parliament.

In time, the opposition was successful with a no confidence motion and the government was "royally" turfed out of power.

FM
seignet posted:

Even if we were a country of the same of ppl, we would differ from time to time. That is okay that we disagree almost all the time. I am able to read how you feel about the race issues in our country.

Were everyone to have identical views, the world would be quite boring.

Differences of views/opinions is what make people observe things from other perspectives. While one may not agree with some or all of the views from another, it is important to actively listen/discuss the issues in a non-antagonistic manner.

FM
ronan posted:

in their frenzied sprint to a bottom where they get to defame and piss on Blackman in effigy, the howling pack of GNI race intoxicated DUNCES have lost sight that the “UK example” they wave with such brio actually SUPPORTS the Ramkarran/Hughes/PNC? position on the no-confidence vote threshold

Labba, drunk with race-baiting liquor substitute, has parked his (fake anyway) ‘intellectual rigor’ in he bt for the duration

mob behavior . . . brains (and facts) optional not tolerated

the battyshaking, big mouth, race-baiting COWARDS afraid to confront my truth!

FM
ronan posted:
ronan posted:

in their frenzied sprint to a bottom where they get to defame and piss on Blackman in effigy, the howling pack of GNI race intoxicated DUNCES have lost sight that the “UK example” they wave with such brio actually SUPPORTS the Ramkarran/Hughes/PNC? position on the no-confidence vote threshold

Labba, drunk with race-baiting liquor substitute, has parked his (fake anyway) ‘intellectual rigor’ in he bt for the duration

mob behavior . . . brains (and facts) optional not tolerated

the battyshaking, big mouth, race-baiting COWARDS afraid to confront my truth!

Dr shakeabatty, you are incorrect. The constitution states that a majority of the national assembly is required for a no confidence to pass. 33 is a majority. Now go shakeabatty some more. 

FM
Drugb posted:
ronan posted:
ronan posted:

in their frenzied sprint to a bottom where they get to defame and piss on Blackman in effigy, the howling pack of GNI race intoxicated DUNCES have lost sight that the “UK example” they wave with such brio actually SUPPORTS the Ramkarran/Hughes/PNC? position on the no-confidence vote threshold

Labba, drunk with race-baiting liquor substitute, has parked his (fake anyway) ‘intellectual rigor’ in he bt for the duration

mob behavior . . . brains (and facts) optional not tolerated

the battyshaking, big mouth, race-baiting COWARDS afraid to confront my truth!

The constitution states that a majority of the national assembly is required for a no confidence to pass. 33 is a majority.

that’s an eminently reasonable conclusion, and i may even agree with you

however, that’s NOT the issue i address in the many posts i have made on the subject

i think you already know that though

nice try

FM
Last edited by Former Member

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