Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:
Ramkaran will form his own party. He will split the AFC and TK will be his deputy.
Okay, Ramkarran will be the African and TK will be the Indian 
Former Member
Former Member
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by VVP:
So it looks like here is where the change has to start.
According to the party constitution, groups sent delegates to congresses on a proportionate basis. At congresses, delegated elected the 35-member Central Committee.
Here's the Jagdeoite trick: by a certain alchemy, the majority of delegates from groups happened to be Jagdeoites at the last three congresses, according to my reliable source. And, with an added ingredient, for the first time ever there were 10 local Chinese delegates at the last PPP congress.
Before and during congresses, there is intense lobbying on behalf of contestants for the CC. The Jagdeoite names prevail.
A strong leader has to emerge in the PPP and go toe to toe with Jagdeo. It will not be easy but there has to be different factions in the PPP just like happened in the PNC. If Jagdeo could be proven to be a liability then there could be change. BTW he is going to be in jail anyway by the time of the next CC election.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Prashad:
Gilbakka and Henry Jeff both Ramkaran loyalists together with two other Ramkarans will be Ralph deputies
I'm happy in Toronto as a private citizen. Me ent looking fo janjhat politics now.
Ralph Ramkarran remains my friend and, as far as I know, he too is done with active party politics. He is merely an observer/commenter like me.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
At the risk of sounding simplistic, I agree that the Jaganites must break away from the Jagdeoites who today have an iron grip on all the PPP's levers of power.
So far, those Jaganites are reportedly only whispering their disapproval of Jagdeo. They need to combine forces, confront the Jagdeoites in Freedom House, and walk out en bloc to regroup as a new party.
There is one big problem facing them, however; some Jaganites will return to parliament in the opposition PPP benches. Would they want to relinquish that for a greater cause?
The Jaganites will never do that.
I was a Jaganite...and myself and thousands more left the PPP and many more are still leaving to support Moses & AFC.
You admit you were never a Jagan supporter....so we understand and agree where you coming from.
They're a bunch of Antiman with Antimanish inclinations when it comes to power and politics.
Shaite.....the only one you can speak for in the PPP is ANIL NANDALALL.... and I told you long before you ever met him ...... and you got in bed with him ...... and you discover he is a antiman..... I told you he is a crook, scamp, thief and criminal and will be jailed... but you did not listen to me... that's your problem.
Look for the rise of ROAR under some new name in the near future. The PPP cannot ever enter Government with a right wing Indian party on its ass.
STOP TALK SK*UNT....LET US DEAL WITH FACTS....
Roar, Jihaji, Jaguar, Tiger, *****cat, Ravi, Batoram, Rhyan Shah, and dem couple madman them had following them.....Try, and Try...and Try.....But Fail. and Fail And Fail And Fail and Fail And Fail And Fail and Fail And Fail And Fail.
Jagdeo & Ramotar & the PPP
destroyed all them losers....
CHEW THEM OUT AND
SWALLOW THEM AND
VOMIT THEM OUT BACK.
And ROAR has some coolies bright enough to not get AFC capooned
THERE is one man
who destroyed the PPP
PPP have to look out for 2020. The Madras express Moses Ramkarrran and Carpin will be striking pace like fire for the PNC better than Thompson and Lilly
Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Look for the rise of ROAR under some new name in the near future. The PPP cannot ever enter Government with a right wing Indian party on its ass.
And ROAR has some coolies bright enough to not get AFC capooned
The rise of ROAR will have Granger and Trotman giddy with delight. Yes go and divide a diminishing Indo vote, and isolate it from the growing mixed population. Ensure that the mixed population remains bonded to APNU AFC.
Good going.
I keep on warning you all that this Indocentric attitude is dangerous for Indians. Not going to work.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:
It's possible that if AFC activists who worked hard do not get any benefits, and if Granger sidelines the AFC,
I will suggest to you that Trotman, etc., know fully well how shallow the loyalty of some of these "AFC" activists are, and have their eyes on some of you.
Face it, many of you remain PPP Jaganites, on temporary exile from the PPP. The endless screams of what a "hero" Cheddi and Janet were is evidence of that.
Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Look for the rise of ROAR under some new name in the near future. The PPP cannot ever enter Government with a right wing Indian party on its ass.
And ROAR has some coolies bright enough to not get AFC capooned
The rise of ROAR will have Granger and Trotman giddy with delight. Yes go and divide a diminishing Indo vote, and isolate it from the growing mixed population. Ensure that the mixed population remains bonded to APNU AFC.
Good going.
I keep on warning you all that this Indocentric attitude is dangerous for Indians. Not going to work.
If the new Constitution permits post-election alliances, as I suspect it will, then the Guyana Parliament will become like the Israeli Knesset where any loudmouth will start his own party and capture seats. This is actually a good thing. Publius in many a Federalist Letters expanded that in a democracy, one cannot control factions so you neuter them by multiplying them.
We need every faction of Guyana represented in the Guyanese Parliament. Let there be a party for everyone.
PR without our pre-election alliance requirement leads to fractured Parliament. Someday soon, a Guyanese PM will come to power at the head of 30% of the national vote.
P.S....An Indo right wing party would support a man like Granger POST-ELECTION.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
If the new Constitution permits post-election alliances,
* Remember any changes in the constitution will require PPP support.
* THE PPP MUST NOT AGREE TO POST ELECTION ALLIANCES.
Rev
Former Member
Originally Posted by Rev:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
If the new Constitution permits post-election alliances,
* Remember any changes in the constitution will require PPP support.
* THE PPP MUST NOT AGREE TO POST ELECTION ALLIANCES.
Rev
No it won't moron.
The Guyana Constitution can be altered by 33 MPS, a referendum, and Presidential Assent in that order.
Like yuh sk**t need a lesson too. Please dear god, stop pronouncing on issues of which you are lacking in basic knowledge.
I only responded because I doan want your idiocy to go unchallenged.
"The Guyana Constitution can be altered by 33 MPS, a referendum, and Presidential Assent in that order."
Shait..i am aware there was a thread relating to this,is it
confirmed by the legal scholars ???
Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
The Guyana Constitution can be altered by 33 MPS, a referendum, and Presidential Assent in that order.
* Thanks for the enlightenment.
* So what's this 66% that poster Demerara_guy keeps throwing around ? I was led to believe that changes to the constitution require a 66% vote.
* After you are finished cussing my ignorance explain that 66% number.
Rev
Former Member
Originally Posted by Django:
"The Guyana Constitution can be altered by 33 MPS, a referendum, and Presidential Assent in that order."
Shait..i am aware there was a thread relating to this,is it
confirmed by the legal scholars ???
Um...Why do you think the new Government is ignoring the PPP and going ahead with the task of Constitution reform? We're getting a new Constitution chap. Without PPP input. That is a good thing.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Rev:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
The Guyana Constitution can be altered by 33 MPS, a referendum, and Presidential Assent in that order.
* Thanks for the enlightenment.
* So what's this 66% that poster Demerara_guy keeps throwing around ? I was led to believe that changes to the constitution require a 66% vote.
* After you are finished cussing my ignorance explain that 66% number.
Rev
The explanation is simple. Article 164 which regulates Amendments says clearly that some articles do not need a referendum if it passes with a 2/3 majority which mean at least 44 MPs.
DG obviously in a pathetic attempt to pretend to be "smart" translates 2/3 as "66%."
The WHOLE CONSTITUTION as well as any part however is amendable with 33MPS plus referendum then Presidential Assent.
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Django:
"The Guyana Constitution can be altered by 33 MPS, a referendum, and Presidential Assent in that order."
Shait..i am aware there was a thread relating to this,is it
confirmed by the legal scholars ???
Um...Why do you think the new Government is ignoring the PPP and going ahead with the task of Constitution reform? We're getting a new Constitution chap. Without PPP input. That is a good thing.
Agreed... needed change to allow post-elections alliance.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
The explanation is simple. Article 164 which regulates Amendments says clearly that some articles do not need a referendum if it passes with a 2/3 majority which mean at least 44 MPs.
DG obviously in a pathetic attempt to pretend to be "smart" translates 2/3 as "66%."
The WHOLE CONSTITUTION as well as any part however is amendable with 33MPS plus referendum then Presidential Assent.
* Muchas gracias. Much appreciated.
Rev
Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Rev:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
If the new Constitution permits post-election alliances,
* Remember any changes in the constitution will require PPP support.
* THE PPP MUST NOT AGREE TO POST ELECTION ALLIANCES.
Rev
No it won't moron.
The Guyana Constitution can be altered by 33 MPS, a referendum, and Presidential Assent in that order.
Like yuh sk**t need a lesson too. Please dear god, stop pronouncing on issues of which you are lacking in basic knowledge.
I only responded because I doan want your idiocy to go unchallenged.
Changes to the major parts of the constitution require, as a minimum, two-thirds of the MPs.
Only certain minor changes require the approval of a majority of members.
In the given circumstances, the PNC must get the support of the PPP/C to change the constitution.
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Rev:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
If the new Constitution permits post-election alliances,
* Remember any changes in the constitution will require PPP support.
* THE PPP MUST NOT AGREE TO POST ELECTION ALLIANCES.
Rev
No it won't moron.
The Guyana Constitution can be altered by 33 MPS, a referendum, and Presidential Assent in that order.
Like yuh sk**t need a lesson too. Please dear god, stop pronouncing on issues of which you are lacking in basic knowledge.
I only responded because I doan want your idiocy to go unchallenged.
Changes to the major parts of the constitution require, as a minimum, two-thirds of the MPs.
Only certain minor changes require the approval of a majority of members.
In the given circumstances, the PNC must get the support of the PPP/C to change the constitution.
Voting can be done by secret ballots. PPP/C boys could be open to offers.
Former Member
Originally Posted by TK:
Mr Ramkarran calls for new political party
By Ralph Ramkarran On May 31, 2015 @ 5:10 am In Features, Sunday
Ralph Ramkarran can indeed form his new political party.
Originally Posted by VVP:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by VVP:
Anybody has the PPP "Constitution" or whatever they call it that governs the procedures to be followed? I cannot believe that an internal struggle cannot be raised to oust Ramotar and Jagdeo. Is Ramkarran still a member of the PPP? If yes, he needs to get to work with the rank and file to change things.
That's problem numero 1.
No one has ever really seemed this "PPP Constitution." But basically it involves Congresses and Special Congresses getting called by the Executive Committee or Central Committee and then they count the votes at any new leadership election.
So in English, the current Leadership of the PPP has to call a Special Congress of people personally loyal to them so as to oust them and they (the leadership) get to count the votes.
This is a fool's errand. It doesn't even work in theory chap.
Can a member challenge the process in court? After all I think political parties have to abide with general rules if they are to maintain privileges on tax exempt status, for example. I just sehing something.
All PPPites should start that outs campaign of the current PPP cabal. see "Those who vote PPP." www.timehritoday.blogspot.com
Former Member
The PPP is indeed in dire straits. The only credible name is Ralph Ramkarran, and even he appears to have turned his back on them. The rest are all tainted. No one will follow Jagdeo or worse Ramotar. They wear the mantles of corruption and weakness. The rest of the gang similarly are viewed as loyal lieutenants of corrupt bosses. What about the new faces? They too appear to be mere minions, following the dictates of their corrupt bosses. And furthermore, none of them have exhibited any leadership qualities or skills. The PPP has not groomed future leadership candidates, and with the soon to come exit of Jagdeo and Ramotar they will cease to exist as a political force in Guyana. Jagdeo and Ramotar must exit; everyone, supporters in particular will no longer follow them blindly. If they are to have a chance, and a remote one at that, Ramkarran has to remain and start the rebuilding process. The other option, is to do something similar to what the PNC members did when they moved to APNU; for the PPP members, it means migrating to the AFC and trying to co-opt that party. In either event, the immediate future of the PPP is bleak.
I forgot to add that Ramkarran appears to have turned his back on the PPP thereby compounding their problems further. Cheddi must be turning over in his grave.
Ramkarran cannot start a rebuilding Process. He is not a member of the party or a member of the central committee.
Ramkarran support the ANPU/AFC in the last election. We don't want that judas IN THE PARTY.
The PPP is a strong party and needs a attitude adjustment. They need to change their image. Nothing else.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:
Ramkarran cannot start a rebuilding Process. He is not a member of the party or a member of the central committee.
Ramkarran support the ANPU/AFC in the last election. We don't want that judas IN THE PARTY.
The PPP is a strong party and needs a attitude adjustment. They need to change their image. Nothing else.
Lots of followers but narrow leadership. It will take years for any of the new faces of new recruits to grow in national stature to attract attention and hence votes.
Originally Posted by Franky:
Originally Posted by Ramakant-P:
Ramkarran cannot start a rebuilding Process. He is not a member of the party or a member of the central committee.
Ramkarran support the ANPU/AFC in the last election. We don't want that judas IN THE PARTY.
The PPP is a strong party and needs a attitude adjustment. They need to change their image. Nothing else.
Lots of followers but narrow leadership. It will take years for any of the new faces of new recruits to grow in national stature to attract attention and hence votes.
No it wouldn't. This government would show their true colors and allow the PPP to rise again. The PPP is stronger than you think. If GECOM didn't rig the election in the PNC's favour, the PPP would have still be the Government. Changes will come to the PPP but for the Better. That does not mean that Jagdeo and Ramoutar will disappear from the scene.
Your logic makes sense Shaitaan. I will explore this topic later...especially since we expect constitutional changes...
VM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Look for the rise of ROAR under some new name in the near future. The PPP cannot ever enter Government with a right wing Indian party on its ass.
And ROAR has some coolies bright enough to not get AFC capooned
The rise of ROAR will have Granger and Trotman giddy with delight. Yes go and divide a diminishing Indo vote, and isolate it from the growing mixed population. Ensure that the mixed population remains bonded to APNU AFC.
Good going.
I keep on warning you all that this Indocentric attitude is dangerous for Indians. Not going to work.
If the new Constitution permits post-election alliances, as I suspect it will, then the Guyana Parliament will become like the Israeli Knesset where any loudmouth will start his own party and capture seats. This is actually a good thing. Publius in many a Federalist Letters expanded that in a democracy, one cannot control factions so you neuter them by multiplying them.
We need every faction of Guyana represented in the Guyanese Parliament. Let there be a party for everyone.
PR without our pre-election alliance requirement leads to fractured Parliament. Someday soon, a Guyanese PM will come to power at the head of 30% of the national vote.
P.S....An Indo right wing party would support a man like Granger POST-ELECTION.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by TK:
Mr Ramkarran calls for new political party
By Ralph Ramkarran On May 31, 2015 @ 5:10 am In Features, Sunday
Ralph Ramkarran can indeed form his new political party.
Okay? So...yuh have something else to say?
Former Member
Ralph should start his own party "The Conversation Tree Party" Chairman, GS and President Ralph.
Former Member
Ralph is an armchair analyst who was too weak to openly back the Coalition.
Don't need to take him too seriously.
Hey,
Can one of you chaps post Ralph's article calling for a new party here? I have not read it.
Thank you.
Former Member
Originally Posted by VishMahabir:
Hey,
Can one of you chaps post Ralph's article calling for a new party here? I have not read it.
Thank you.
Read the final paragraph of the opening post.
Former Member
Originally Posted by Jay Bharrat:
Ralph is an armchair analyst who was too weak to openly back the Coalition.
Don't need to take him too seriously.
That's not a fair comment, Jay. You don't know Ralph. Furthermore, most of us here are armchair analysts. 
Former Member
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Demerara_Guy:
Originally Posted by TK:
Mr Ramkarran calls for new political party
By Ralph Ramkarran On May 31, 2015 @ 5:10 am In Features, Sunday
Ralph Ramkarran can indeed form his new political party.
Okay? So...yuh have something else to say?
As more information becomes available.
Former Member
May be Ralph can consider this as the symbol of the new party
Former Member
This is the best idea coming from Ralphie Ramkarran since I know him.
Dhaya Baad Baiji.
Time to make Boysie Ramkarran proud. Time to get out of the cushy air-condition offices and start walking in the mud of the sugar belt.
That is how you beat the PPP.
A column in the Stabroek News cannot help you - only the rich, the intellectuals in the Diaspora and GT crew reads the Stabroek News.
The cane cutters cannot afford the Stabroek News.
Originally Posted by KishanB:
This is the best idea coming from Ralphie Ramkarran since I know him.
Dhaya Baad Baiji.
Time to make Boysie Ramkarran proud. Time to get out of the cushy air-condition offices and start walking in the mud of the sugar belt.
That is how you beat the PPP.
A column in the Stabroek News cannot help you - only the rich, the intellectuals in the Diaspora and GT crew reads the Stabroek News.
The cane cutters cannot afford the Stabroek News.
Ramkarran is 75 years old. It is too late for him.
Former Member
The PPP/C may do well to reconstruct its image and allow credible leaders to emerge
By Staff Writer On June 3, 2015 @ 5:08 am In Letters
Dear Editor,
Ever since his assumption to the highest office in the land, President Granger, in realpolitik form, has moved swiftly to provide effective leadership and institutional changes. As a historian, author of several books on Guyana and the Caribbean, as well as the publisher of the Guyana Review magazine, he understands the history of the country very well and he is not shy about using power to effectuate the necessary changes that coincide with his vision for a new Guyana. If current trends continue, Granger will in effect transform the course of Guyanaâs history and he will have a lasting and pervasive impact on the political culture and Guyanese ethos.
While the Granger administration enjoys its honeymoon period, some hard facts should not go unnoticed. One, the governing coalition is not your typical coalition. In general, coalition governments, as they exist in other countries, tend to capture much more than a mere 51% of the electorate, and, coalitions are composed of parties where the smaller of the coalition partners can barter their support to exact concessions from the larger partner. The bargaining power of the AFC has been reduced by a constitutional provision preventing post-election coalitions, as well as the Cummingsburg Accord, signed by both coalition partners.
Two, despite what the enthusiasts now proclaim, the APNU+AFC is not a government of ânational unityâ (neither was the PPP/C). The fact remains that the PPP/C is still the largest political party in Guyana (with 32 parliamentary seats). And, as the election clearly demonstrates, the electorate/nation remains ethnically divided, probably more so than in previous elections. The new government has a unique opportunity to expand on the coalition support by cutting into the PPP base before the 2020 elections. Granger, however, will have to control the partisan throng by keeping the old PNC rearguard at bay while making genuine overtures to the supporters of the PPP. He will have a greater impact on the Guyanese political landscape if he can bridge the racial gap between the two major ethnic communities and move the needle closer to a government of national unity.
A central feature of any democracy is reflected in periodic changes in government through transparently free and fair elections. An equally important characteristic of a functioning democratic system is the presence of a political opposition that operates within the ambit of the rules of engagement to support, critique or reshape public policy. Whether the PPP can become an effective opposition party, depends on a number of basic factors, all of which centre around its ability to fully recover from its recent electoral defeat. Reasons, among others, for the PPPâs electoral loss include, but are not limited to: arrogance on the part of PPP leadership, the undemocratic nature of its party apparatus, long-standing accusations of corruption, a well-oiled opposition force that exploited the PPP/C weaknesses and placed the party on the defensive, an effective anti-PPP social media campaign, as well as its antagonistic relations with the USA, a country already weary of the antics of the nearby Nicolas Maduro government in Venezuela.
However, there are two overriding characteristics defining the nature of what the PPP/C has become internally since its origin as a mass-based party that have contributed to its overall image of a spent party, leading to its electoral defeat at the polls. One, the party apparatus has been taken over by a small unprofessional âlumpenâ element associated with its âworking classâ philosophy, truncating over the years the intellectual core that once guided the direction of the party. The lack of a professional intellectual leadership placed the party in the hands of individuals who became vindictive against its opponents, often times treated as though they were enemies of the state. The Nandlall/Kaieteur News and Bheri Ramsaran episodes come to mind. Two, the Marxist principle of democratic centralism by which the PPP governed itself stifled criticism of its internal policy and leadership, creating an environment whereby few individuals at the hierarchical top dictated policies and exercised control, leaving little room for reforms based on constructive criticisms. Ironically, the current crop of PPP leaders strayed away from the virtues of its founder/leader (honesty, incorruptible, humility, etc), while adherence to the core ideological values of the Jagans have placed the party in decline, and in jeopardy. The demons which the post-Jagan leaders have nurtured internally have now engulfed the party, including a younger generation that has been inculcated within its ranks over the years. From all appearances, the PPP has reached a point where there does not seem to exist the critical mass necessary to pull the party out of the Gordian knot in which it is embedded. The party is in dire need of new leadership, organization and ideology if it is to emerge as a credible opposition force, and eventually, be seen as a government in waiting. It runs the risk of becoming left out in the corridors of power, as it will likely face criticisms from every corner of Guyanese society in its attempt to reinvent itself.
The PPP/C may do well to hastily begin to reconstruct its image, internally and externally, and allow credible leaders to emerge in a democratic manner.
Its salvation may also lie with its ability to reduce the powers of the executive and promote constitutional reforms, which the Granger government has agreed to do. If coalition politics is the way forward, a renewed PPP should seek to build alliance with other parties, the AFC or APNU not excluded. Regardless, while opportunities exist for APNU/AFC to expand upon its support base, the PPP faces a lengthy and arduous road ahead
Yours faithfully,
Baytoram Ramharack
Former Member
All these old hags collectively destroyed Guyana and need to move on, let a new generation take over and try to better the mess left behind.
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