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Those who orchestrated that terror on innocent Guyanese must be held accountable. The masterminds and those who wielded their cutlasses for all to see, those who robbed and provoked the police, causing injury, and most of whom were caught on video, must be made to face the brunt of the law.
Was it not Luncheon who said bring it on to a complaint that there is no confidence in the home affairs minister? The authoritarian PPP said he stays, their authority always so here come the noise from the back wash to all this political shit being slung into the air simply to conserve autocratic power.The violence of the Police and the People in response are symptoms of this sick political system.
The PPP cannot win this game without being repressive. When they begin to do that they will meet more resistance. Their only option is to call for parley and that means serious discussions to this autocracy being implanted by elections that the call a democracy.
There is no reason for them to fear losing power in such a democracy. If they are good as they claim then they will win as usual. No one can call for any minister to resign except the local constituency that voted him in. If you want an executive presidency with an Indian only face to it (whether there are hundreds of token Africans in office or not).
The community has to validate their leaders and their leaders have to be accountable to them. Guyanese have no political voice or political exit strategies in this system. They are hamstrung by its dictatorial face. They consequently try to veto its autocratic rule with violence.
Was it not Luncheon who said bring it on to a complaint that there is no confidence in the home affairs minister?
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is a game of brinkmanship and political outbidding are being played out by all sides here.
The neophytes in the AFC played right into the hands of the veteran PPP/C's strategists.The ultimatum given by Hughes and Nagamoottoo to the President to dump Rohee was ridiculous and beyond silly. History should have informed these fools that with the passage of the Burnham era, no political entity in Guyana can ever again exercised total control over certain segment of society. These opportunistic criminals would always deviate from 'THE PLAN' and seized the moment to advance their personal criminal agendas for nothing but personal gains. Genuine causes are mere vehicle of convenience for their nefarious agendas- robbery, pillage and mayhem. Both Hoyte and Corbin belatedly recognized this with their failed 'Slo Fiah/ Moh Fiah' & 'Dog Of War' campaigns, having lost total control of their 'Freedom Fighters' & 'Talibans'. In this instance and to their credit, the PNC/ APNU read the tea leaves correctly and decided to lurk in the background and yield centre stage to the AFC. The PPP having recognized the nature of the 'BEAST' they are facing, played possum, feigned indifference and did whatever it takes , including Luncheon's 'Ready To Rumble' bravado to lure the AFC into the trap. Hence the immediate pre package media blitz of The Donald, Benn & Nadir, Anil & Gail and the OP gang of Kwame, Albert & company...
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is a game of brinkmanship and political outbidding are being played out by all sides here.
The neophytes in the AFC played right into the hands of the veteran PPP/C's strategists.The ultimatum given by Hughes and Nagamoottoo to the President to dump Rohee was ridiculous and beyond silly. History should have informed these fools that with the passage of the Burnham era, no political entity in Guyana can ever again exercised total control over certain segment of society. These opportunistic criminals would always deviate from 'THE PLAN' and seized the moment to advance their personal criminal agendas for nothing but personal gains. Genuine causes are mere vehicle of convenience for their nefarious agendas- robbery, pillage and mayhem. Both Hoyte and Corbin belatedly recognized this with their failed 'Slo Fiah/ Moh Fiah' & 'Dog Of War' campaigns, having lost total control of their 'Freedom Fighters' & 'Talibans'. In this instance and to their credit, the PNC/ APNU read the tea leaves correctly and decided to lurk in the background and yield centre stage to the AFC. The PPP having recognized the nature of the 'BEAST' they are facing, played possum, feigned indifference and did whatever it takes , including Luncheon's 'Ready To Rumble' bravado to lure the AFC into the trap. Hence the immediate pre package media blitz of The Donald, Benn & Nadir, Anil & Gail and the OP gang of Kwame, Albert & company...
The AFC need people like you to strategize. Can't have ingrained racists such as Hughes and company or we will have more Lindens and Agricolas
Nigel is an extremist, terrorist and racist, Indo Guyanese hater. He should be arrested and tried for treason. Anyone on this blog who defends this terrorist have no morale decency.
Nugel is Burnham incarnate. Indo Guyanese needs to be alert if they love their country, it is time that they defend your country from terrorists and terrorism.
PYO needs to be on high alert.
Albert, Can you explain why Rubber Bullets and MORe Tear Gas was NOT used?????
The neophytes in the AFC played right into the hands of the veteran PPP/C's strategists.
The ultimatum given by Hughes and Nagamoottoo to the President to dump Rohee was ridiculous and beyond silly.
History should have informed these fools that with the passage of the Burnham era, no political entity in Guyana can ever again exercised total control over certain segment of society.
These opportunistic criminals would always deviate from 'THE PLAN' and seized the moment to advance their personal criminal agendas for nothing but personal gains.
Interesting to note.
Was it not Luncheon who said bring it on to a complaint that there is no confidence in the home affairs minister?
You are as informed as the next PPP shill. Being stupid is reserved for labeling idiots like yourself whose will is shackled to harmonizing and dissimulating for a necrotic, corrupt administration. Were you a man of independent thought you would realize what I am saying. It matters little who starts a stand off and who protests what. The options for there reciprocal posturing is ever present in a system between autocrats and the marginalized or plutocrats and the downtrodden.
Further, if the people express a no confidence in a minister what recourse do they have if the government is the omniscient PPP? Not one minister was ever sanctioned for any infraction of procedure or impropriety and we have abundance of examples where that occurred. The fact remains, the people have no avenue for redress and if the PPP maintains they are the authority and legitimately elected government and can do as it pleases while knowing full well none of these people care for them then they get a veto by violence.
You and the rest of those corrupt critters in the PPP with no respect for the political weather pattern will face the hurricane unprepared. Your asses would one day be on the pavement and no amount of woe is me will make those like me sympathetic.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is a game of brinkmanship and political outbidding are being played out by all sides here.
The neophytes in the AFC played right into the hands of the veteran PPP/C's strategists.The ultimatum given by Hughes and Nagamoottoo to the President to dump Rohee was ridiculous and beyond silly. History should have informed these fools that with the passage of the Burnham era, no political entity in Guyana can ever again exercised total control over certain segment of society. These opportunistic criminals would always deviate from 'THE PLAN' and seized the moment to advance their personal criminal agendas for nothing but personal gains. Genuine causes are mere vehicle of convenience for their nefarious agendas- robbery, pillage and mayhem. Both Hoyte and Corbin belatedly recognized this with their failed 'Slo Fiah/ Moh Fiah' & 'Dog Of War' campaigns, having lost total control of their 'Freedom Fighters' & 'Talibans'. In this instance and to their credit, the PNC/ APNU read the tea leaves correctly and decided to lurk in the background and yield centre stage to the AFC. The PPP having recognized the nature of the 'BEAST' they are facing, played possum, feigned indifference and did whatever it takes , including Luncheon's 'Ready To Rumble' bravado to lure the AFC into the trap. Hence the immediate pre package media blitz of The Donald, Benn & Nadir, Anil & Gail and the OP gang of Kwame, Albert & company...
This is a play being acted out on the stage of life that is as old as time. I will not answer the specific points you made directly because the truth or falsity of it is not the question. Eddies on a river are not there by themselves. They are the product of a strong current running silently below the surface. One must always look at the cause and not the symptoms.
The idea of dissatisfaction with Rohee and setting a red line for a show down at high noon if he is not fired is incidental to the reality of the persistent and ominous political dysfunction in the system. If we constantly distract ourselves and place plaster on scabs and attempt to excise decay in our body politic without seeking to see it fed well and cared for so it can be healthy to resist infection, we waste our times and emotions in a futile quest.
It is on that account I take the idea of some persisting contentious malignancy in a group of people ready to usurp any plan and act opportunistically to their own ends as nebulous if not troubling. I would hope you are not implying that among members of a self identifying ethnic group that there is this ever present malady. There is no such thing existing in the political world or the biological world. Every thing is driven by deeper forces originating in the system that allows for such ( "temporal") manifestation of obstinacy and chronic persistence.
The PPP is in office and one can say they are that they persisted for 2 decades and are identified with as a subgroup of a self identified Indian. They are demonstrably a poison in the system. One can say it matters not what is the plan for accountability, be it to follow the agency of a parliament or to respond to audits of national holding companies as NICIL or as to explain themselves as to whatever from the Hydro project to the give away of our property; they go their own way. In fact the are rabidly opportunistic since it is clear they are identified as Indian and so constantly speak to those of the malingering others who resist their omniscient viewpoint.
The PPP will frame every opposition to their rule as malicious. Since they are crooks that has a hallow sound so any respond to them likewise can be seen as a virtue. If we reciprocate between these claims and counter claims without resolving the need in our society for no one to feel marginalized and left out we are guinea pigs running a thread mills. On that account I resist labeling anyone the irresponsible others in this case except those who assume the role of leaders. If the PPP want to lead, let them lead us to a future where one does not have to beg a president to recall a minister. If such a need is to arise we simple use our political voice and recall him ourselves. No such mechanism exist because we have an autocracy and not a democracy. That needs to be changed.
Insteading of fighting the AFC to regain those 20 thousand indians who voted for them these people should be trying to have good governance to win more people in the next election.
I hope Jagdeo sit down with Freddy and Hughes and settle their dispute. The gang of eight look like amateurs compare to Jagdeo.
You can rest assure Rev Al will have his time in the future.
You speaketh shyte again yuji, go to bed and shut up, you evilminded little person you.
Co cain, is quick on his feet to defend terrorism in Guyana.
The PPP has identified its true enemy . . . investing everything it has to split up the AFC along race lines; hoping Indians 'go home' en masse to "Plantation Freedom House"
It must be conceded that the PPP professional practioners of the dark arts have learned much from their failures in Linden; the planning, provisioning propaganda and logistics for Agricola must surely have bolstered the stature of the comrades who learnt their craft in the old Eastern bloc and Cuba.
Look for a few 'concessions' to APNU by the PPP bandits to institutionalize the status quo, circa 2006, amidst BOLDER attempts to marginalize the AFC.
Preservation of the race duality in Guyanese politics is the sine qua non for the PPP high command. It is the only way their evil rule and continued rape of Guyana by PPPCrime & Associates can continue . . . of course, with the impunity they claim as a birthright
This is truly a turning point in Guyana's history. The PPP can now finally rain in the terrorist elements and arrest those who reside abroad and support terrorism when they enter or visit Guyana.
These types of activities require financial resources and the sources of funding of terrorist activities must be investigated. History can repeat itself and President Rammo now has a golden opportunity to stamp out extremism and terrorism.
The public is extremely disturbed by the actions of the PNC and AFC and the PPP now has the greatest chance in history to eradicate extremism since the public is on the side of the government.
The PPP must also be seen as fully supporting the Police and Army to ensure that the terrorists are brought to justice.
A massive campaign in Berbice is require to finally rapture the fragile and weakened AFC.
These types of activities require financial resources . . .
a goodly number of the big PPP 'fundraisers' in NA are either being watched by the FBI, under indictment, or serving serious time in Federal prison . . . y'all will need to traffick more drugs or loot more from the treasury to fund y'all "activities."
i feel ur pain
dem a watch alyuh
The PPP can now finally rain in the terrorist elements and arrest those who reside abroad and support terrorism when they enter or visit Guyana.
These types of activities require financial resources and the sources of funding of terrorist activities must be investigated.
You dumb fool, how much do you think it would cost to burn a couple a ole tyres?
Druggie Co Cain, look at the paid thugs in the videos.. I forgive your ignorance.
Did you actually take a few mins. and look at the acts of terrorists ? They are funded by a group.
Having personally been a school mate of Nigel, I can say with certainty he is no racist. He did come from relative affluence where concern for the poor and alleged downtrodden is non existent His motives like Ramjattan, Nagamooto and Gerhard, is political. These politicians are indeed inciting the Blacks to further their own political agenda, do any of you really believe that Nigel Hughes et al are really concerned about the welfare of the poor?
The neophytes in the AFC played right into the hands of the veteran PPP/C's strategists.
The ultimatum given by Hughes and Nagamoottoo to the President to dump Rohee was ridiculous and beyond silly.
History should have informed these fools that with the passage of the Burnham era, no political entity in Guyana can ever again exercised total control over certain segment of society.
These opportunistic criminals would always deviate from 'THE PLAN' and seized the moment to advance their personal criminal agendas for nothing but personal gains.
Interesting to note.
To give credence to Mara's point please note the presence of Sabita Ramjeet, D2/Storm Born's incessant rambling which makes little sense etc LOL
The neophytes in the AFC played right into the hands of the veteran PPP/C's strategists.
The ultimatum given by Hughes and Nagamoottoo to the President to dump Rohee was ridiculous and beyond silly.
History should have informed these fools that with the passage of the Burnham era, no political entity in Guyana can ever again exercised total control over certain segment of society.
These opportunistic criminals would always deviate from 'THE PLAN' and seized the moment to advance their personal criminal agendas for nothing but personal gains.
Interesting to note.
To give credence to Mara's point please note the presence of Sabita Ramjeet, D2/Storm Born's incessant rambling which makes little sense etc LOL
Mara can on his own determine if what I said makes sense or not. Further, he is well aware I am no neophyte and political analysis and has some of the best around me from whom I can ask to can solicit advice.
Unlike you, I am not constrained by necessity of satisfying the viewpoint of some handler. I write my mind and can if asked source the material directly from practical understanding of our political reality in comparison with what happens elsewhere.
The PPP are autocrats. The distinction between them and Burnham is in kind not quality. They are of the same pathogenic strain.
Take a look at our system. It is a borrowing from others that is a bad fit for us. How in the world can two ethnic groups at each other throat politically and socially ever achieve democracy if the will of one or the other is supplanted by very thin margins in elections?
Our elections are simply a percolation of our mutual distrust and the results are predictable...one or the other of an ethnically identifiable party wins and the other group seethe with anger awaiting an opportunity to vent. We are lucky it remains localized to this point but our luck will run out.
The PPP love this system at the moment as the present demographics mean the get control of the prize and can continue to loot it at will while claiming it is their "democratic" right. Well, it may not always be so if we are spared a failed state status.
Mara is both right and wrong. No one can gain control of totally even though they think they do. The PPP think by claiming executive privileges they can do as they please. We see they cannot. The Opposition thinks they can veto the exercise of power and they can. I disagree with him on calling these people alone criminals since the PPP are also a criminally bent. They put LFSB to shame with their theft and have long left him in the dust on the murdering. Yes, they are criminals too!
Get off your asses and address our nations needs rather than your own and maybe we have a chance. Meanwhile, no amount of labeling the protesters or their leaders villains or complaining that there is violence means a damn thing. You in your corrupt autocratic ways are orchestrating violence no less than they.
Storm,
Guyana has a parliament and the opposition and the government need to sit down and have a civilized conversation.
Include some prominent Guyanese and some spiritual leaders so that Guyana can move forward. Guyana needs healing and to move beyond the issue of holding up the people's business in parliament.
If the combined opposition feel that they can bring about change by themselves, they have a right to pass a no confidence motion and Guyana can have fresh elections.
In a democracy, it is the will of the people that must be respected. The people have spoken with their votes.
do any of you really believe that Nigel Hughes et al are really concerned about the welfare of the poor?
Do you really think that Luncheon is concerned about the black poor? If he was he would know that threaten violence after Agricola killings, Linden and other occasions where poor blacks were brutalized isnt going to be welcomed by them. He is throwing a lit match on a burst gas line. But then he wants that response, so he can run to Indians to console them about "dem baaad black man" to keep them in the PPP jail.
Quit bothering wil Nigel Hughes. He couldnt deliver black votes one year ago so stop fooling yourself that he has influence over this most marginalized and frustrated segment of the AfroGuyanese population.
If there is one segment of the Guyanese population that is unimpressed with the AFC it is this very poor black segment. I said so last year, was criticized by Mitwah and baseman, both of whom accused me of becoming a PPP.
An analysis of Guyana will no doubt show that this is a very frustrated and leaderless group, not trusting of any political party, even the PNC for which they voted. So with every spark they will flare up, even though which each flare up they destroy their case for being taken seriously.
If the PPP were worthy of any respect it would first admit to the problem. Extreme racial alienation by poor blacks, who feel totally abandoned, and who lack the faith that any segment of the political elite cares for them. And who will increasingly flare up every time there is some trigger action by the PPP, knowing full well that the middle class folks in the PNC and he AFC dont give a flying fig about them either.
In a democracy, it is the will of the people that must be respected. The people have spoken with their votes.
Yes the people did speak with their votes. The APC and APNU together got MORE votes than the PPP, which ha snow lost control over parliament.
Now where in Luncheon's rant do you see any suggestiuon that he wants meqaningful dialogue, and not merely to waste people's time?
Now I do happen to think that the AFC and APNU now control parliament and so should use this institution rather than the streets.
But I also happen to know that the PPP is moore interested in trying ti destroy the AFC, which it resents as much as Burnham hated the WPA, and for the same reasons too.
So again...where is the proof that the PPP understands that more than 50% of the Guyana electorate did NOT support them? This of course being drawn mainly along racial lines. making it an even more toxic situation if the PPP ignores them.
Rest assured that if Guyana allowed post election alliances as does the UK and Suriname, the PPP most likely would be in the OPPOSITION!!!!!
Do you really think that Luncheon is concerned about the black poor? If he was he would know that threaten violence after Agricola killings, Linden and other occasions where poor blacks were brutalized isnt going to be welcomed by them. He is throwing a lit match on a burst gas line. But then he wants that response, so he can run to Indians to console them about "dem baaad black man" to keep them in the PPP jail.
Quit bothering wil Nigel Hughes. He couldnt deliver black votes one year ago so stop fooling yourself that he has influence over this most marginalized and frustrated segment of the AfroGuyanese population.
If there is one segment of the Guyanese population that is unimpressed with the AFC it is this very poor black segment. I said so last year, was criticized by Mitwah and baseman, both of whom accused me of becoming a PPP.
An analysis of Guyana will no doubt show that this is a very frustrated and leaderless group, not trusting of any political party, even the PNC for which they voted. So with every spark they will flare up, even though which each flare up they destroy their case for being taken seriously.
If the PPP were worthy of any respect it would first admit to the problem. Extreme racial alienation by poor blacks, who feel totally abandoned, and who lack the faith that any segment of the political elite cares for them. And who will increasingly flare up every time there is some trigger action by the PPP, knowing full well that the middle class folks in the PNC and he AFC dont give a flying fig about them either.
Probably not or else he would have ordered them packed into a gdf truck and sent into the interior where they would have made a fortune and came out of poverty. Instead he let them hang around GT and prey on those that work hard to make money. Do you really believe that all these politicians care about the fellow that got killed in Agricola? No they are there like Al Sharpton was for Tawana Brawley, to gain political mileage and further their own careers. Do you really believe the average Black Guyanese care about this Agricola youth who more than likely was planning to kill someone else when karma gave payback via his own PNC Black policeman? No, they are well aware that these Agricola youths are festering in a hotbed of criminal activity with their parents benefiting from the spoils when they commit robbery and murder.
bgurd did you say karma,you ppp indians is lucky that those black police is willing to kill their own to protect the ppp government and yet you fools have no respect for the black people you are not just a racists but you is a stupid racists
Do you really think that Luncheon is concerned about the black poor? If he was he would know that threaten violence after Agricola killings, Linden and other occasions where poor blacks were brutalized isnt going to be welcomed by them. He is throwing a lit match on a burst gas line. But then he wants that response, so he can run to Indians to console them about "dem baaad black man" to keep them in the PPP jail.
Quit bothering wil Nigel Hughes. He couldnt deliver black votes one year ago so stop fooling yourself that he has influence over this most marginalized and frustrated segment of the AfroGuyanese population.
If there is one segment of the Guyanese population that is unimpressed with the AFC it is this very poor black segment. I said so last year, was criticized by Mitwah and baseman, both of whom accused me of becoming a PPP.
An analysis of Guyana will no doubt show that this is a very frustrated and leaderless group, not trusting of any political party, even the PNC for which they voted. So with every spark they will flare up, even though which each flare up they destroy their case for being taken seriously.
If the PPP were worthy of any respect it would first admit to the problem. Extreme racial alienation by poor blacks, who feel totally abandoned, and who lack the faith that any segment of the political elite cares for them. And who will increasingly flare up every time there is some trigger action by the PPP, knowing full well that the middle class folks in the PNC and he AFC dont give a flying fig about them either.
Probably not or else he would have ordered them packed into a gdf truck and sent into the interior where they would have made a fortune and came out of poverty. Instead he let them hang around GT and prey on those that work hard to make money. Do you really believe that all these politicians care about the fellow that got killed in Agricola? No they are there like Al Sharpton was for Tawana Brawley, to gain political mileage and further their own careers. Do you really believe the average Black Guyanese care about this Agricola youth who more than likely was planning to kill someone else when karma gave payback via his own PNC Black policeman? No, they are well aware that these Agricola youths are festering in a hotbed of criminal activity with their parents benefiting from the spoils when they commit robbery and murder.
Speak out. Who vex, vex.
Having personally been a school mate of Nigel, I can say with certainty he is no racist. He did come from relative affluence where concern for the poor and alleged downtrodden is non existent His motives like Ramjattan, Nagamooto and Gerhard, is political. These politicians are indeed inciting the Blacks to further their own political agenda, do any of you really believe that Nigel Hughes et al are really concerned about the welfare of the poor?
Nope they aren't!
And the PPP are...
Do you really think that Luncheon is concerned about the black poor? If he was he would know that threaten violence after Agricola killings, Linden and other occasions where poor blacks were brutalized isnt going to be welcomed by them. He is throwing a lit match on a burst gas line. But then he wants that response, so he can run to Indians to console them about "dem baaad black man" to keep them in the PPP jail.
Quit bothering wil Nigel Hughes. He couldnt deliver black votes one year ago so stop fooling yourself that he has influence over this most marginalized and frustrated segment of the AfroGuyanese population.
If there is one segment of the Guyanese population that is unimpressed with the AFC it is this very poor black segment. I said so last year, was criticized by Mitwah and baseman, both of whom accused me of becoming a PPP.
An analysis of Guyana will no doubt show that this is a very frustrated and leaderless group, not trusting of any political party, even the PNC for which they voted. So with every spark they will flare up, even though which each flare up they destroy their case for being taken seriously.
If the PPP were worthy of any respect it would first admit to the problem. Extreme racial alienation by poor blacks, who feel totally abandoned, and who lack the faith that any segment of the political elite cares for them. And who will increasingly flare up every time there is some trigger action by the PPP, knowing full well that the middle class folks in the PNC and he AFC dont give a flying fig about them either.
Probably not or else he would have ordered them packed into a gdf truck and sent into the interior where they would have made a fortune and came out of poverty. Instead he let them hang around GT and prey on those that work hard to make money. Do you really believe that all these politicians care about the fellow that got killed in Agricola? No they are there like Al Sharpton was for Tawana Brawley, to gain political mileage and further their own careers. Do you really believe the average Black Guyanese care about this Agricola youth who more than likely was planning to kill someone else when karma gave payback via his own PNC Black policeman? No, they are well aware that these Agricola youths are festering in a hotbed of criminal activity with their parents benefiting from the spoils when they commit robbery and murder.
How often do we hear the once popular name Yohance Douglas, or more recently Twyon Thomas?
The joint opposition can't escape blame for the Mayhem at Agricola!
The joint opposition can't escape blame for the Mayhem at Agricola!
Using your example one would say Bashar al-Assad is such a saint! How dare his people take to the street!
The PPP are naked crooks and given their autocratic approach to government and in this case, the appeal to "executive authority" to deny any request to sanction the Home Affairs minister is actionable rationale for a protest.
Similarly, those people in Spain and Greece who took to the streets must all be terrorists!
bgurd did you say karma,you ppp indians is lucky that those black police is willing to kill their own to protect the ppp government and yet you fools have no respect for the black people you are not just a racists but you is a stupid racists
This is not a political killing. In fact those Black police may be working for the opposition, to make the govt look bad. Have you ever been to Agricola to know the kind of criminals that live there. I had relatives that were robbed and beaten there in their homes over the years. No doubt this fellow that was terminated was up to no good. At least he will not kill or rob again.
The truth has a sense of revealing itself, the sinister schemes of the opposition of the state will unfold, and the AFC/APNU cabal will be put to shame
The joint opposition can't escape blame for the Mayhem at Agricola!
Using your example one would say Bashar al-Assad is such a saint! How dare his people take to the street!
Difference...Guyana is a constitutional democracy with free and fair election. Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc are not.
The joint opposition can't escape blame for the Mayhem at Agricola!
Using your example one would say Bashar al-Assad is such a saint! How dare his people take to the street!
Difference...Guyana is a constitutional democracy with free and fair election. Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc are not.
Baseman, You are not tired explaining simple things to these GNI DUNCES?