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FM
Former Member

Consolidated Fund in heavy overdraft

May 20, 2015 | By | Filed Under News 

– parallel treasuries will come to an end –Finance Minister designate

By Kiana Wilburg
Finance Minister designate, Winston Jordon, is already moving to get an understanding of the

APNU+AFC designate Finance Minister, Winston Jordon

APNU+AFC designate Finance Minister, Winston Jordon

current state of the economy.
Among many of his discoveries is the fact that the Consolidated Fund is in heavy overdraft. This Fund is Government’s main bank account into which revenues are deposited and out of which expenditure is made.
The economist who is currently conducting several meetings with senior Finance Ministry Staff and other personnel for interlinked agencies said that an explanation was provided for this.
Jordon explained that the Consolidated Funds being in overdraft is due to the behaviour of the Guyana Gold Board and its failure to reimburse the account.
The economist said that there is an arrangement in place to assist the Gold Board.
“The government doesn’t have the kind of money it needs to pay miners so it draws from the Consolidated Fund and reimburses it when it sells the gold. But there is the practice of “hedging” (A strategy used in limiting the probability of loss from fluctuations in the prices of commodities) after they collect the gold and there are risks involved in that.
“And if you aren’t good at it you can lose in the sense that you are forced to sell for a price far lower than what you bought at, I think it is public knowledge that the board got caught in the fall of the gold prices.
“So they might have bought at high prices and may have been hedging but then the prices collapsed…”
Jordon said that while he believes that the gold board has been drawing heavily from the Consolidated Fund hence the state it is in, he will provide a more concrete position when he is informed of the state of affairs of the Gold Board.
“This is what I was told and I have asked the Chief Statistician to provide me with some figures. I haven’t been around a bit and I haven’t seen their accounts so I wouldn’t be able to say if they sold enough or whether they are still holding lots of gold…”
“What I do know is that I have been told that the overdraft is due to the fact that gold has not been able to reimburse the Fund as yet which means that they are probably hedging and that’s my only explanation without seeing the accounts as yet.
“But as an economist I can only presume that this is perhaps the case…,” Jordon said.
The Finance Minister designate said that another reason why the Consolidated Fund is in heavy overdraft is that there are a lot of funds belonging to the government but are being held outside of the fund like a “parallel treasury”.
He reminded that his government had spoken on this matter on several occasions when it was in the opposition and it is something that will be rectified at the earliest.
Jordon emphasized that this needs to come to an end. He believes that it is a significant contributor to the state of the Consolidated Fund.
“I don’t like to speak off-the-cuff but I will be dealing with this … I will make this one of my priorities because it is a burning issue with the government and it would be remiss of me, not to look at all these parallel treasuries and correct this irregularity.”
The Finance Minister designate also stated that the heavy overdraft reflects poor accountability. He said that an audit will be done into several government funds; including one into the Consolidated Funds.
Jordon graduated with a Degree in Economics from the University of Guyana in 1981. In that period, he received the Vice Chancellor’s Special Award for Best Graduating Student in the Faculty of Social Sciences.
In 1983, the economist received a Commonwealth Scholarship to pursue postgraduate studies in Economics at the University of Warwick, UK and later graduated in 1985. He has a certificate in Public Sector Budgeting from Harvard University and another in Budgeting and Structural Adjustment Management from Penn State University, USA. In March, 1993 he worked with the International Monetary Fund as an intern.
Jordon would be bringing over 30 years of working experience in a number of areas including macroeconomic management; economic policy reform, programming and governance; resource mobilization; public finance; public sector budgeting; policy design and analysis; and design of poverty programmes and safety nets. He also served on several technical committees and state boards, including: Presidential Committee on Economic Matters (1990-91); Presidential Committee on Public Service Wages and Salaries (1997); Presidential Committee on the Privatization of Guyana Electricity Corporation (1997) and Linden Mining Enterprise (2003); Arbitration between the Government and the Guyana Teachers’ Union (1999).

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Originally Posted by Observer:

Shaits, you're working hard for the new gov't.  Best of luck.  

 

We need to get away from this self-destructive mindset of giving people a free pass just because we are of the same tribe or same party.

 

We also need to not be unpatriotic and anti-nationalist by hoping the new Government fails. We're better than that. Or at least we should be.

 

I truly hope the new Government succeeds as should we all no matter who we supported in the election. The election is over. Let's support the Government where possible and oppose them where necessary.

 

You and I would be here dogging the PNC if they had handed over a Consolidated Fund which apparently not only has no funds but is in overdraft.

 

P.S...I still support the reformation of the PPP and will continue to do so. I will not, however, support their return to Government as they are still unfit to govern. Anyone who thinks Guyana was governed well these past 23 years needs to have their head examined.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Observer:

Shaits, you're working hard for the new gov't.  Best of luck.  

 

We need to get away from this self-destructive mindset of giving people a free pass just because we are of the same tribe or same party.

 

We also need to not be unpatriotic and anti-nationalist by hoping the new Government fails. We're better than that. Or at least we should be.

 

I truly hope the new Government succeeds as should we all no matter who we supported in the election. The election is over. Let's support the Government where possible and oppose them where necessary.

 

You and I would be here dogging the PNC if they had handed over a Consolidated Fund which apparently not only has no funds but is in overdraft.

 

P.S...I still support the reformation of the PPP and will continue to do so. I will not, however, support their return to Government as they are still unfit to govern. Anyone who thinks Guyana was governed well these past 23 years needs to have their head examined.

Well said. the people in GY need to support the gov't

of the day,if they goof up let your voices be heard.

Django
Originally Posted by Django:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Observer:

Shaits, you're working hard for the new gov't.  Best of luck.  

 

We need to get away from this self-destructive mindset of giving people a free pass just because we are of the same tribe or same party.

 

We also need to not be unpatriotic and anti-nationalist by hoping the new Government fails. We're better than that. Or at least we should be.

 

I truly hope the new Government succeeds as should we all no matter who we supported in the election. The election is over. Let's support the Government where possible and oppose them where necessary.

 

You and I would be here dogging the PNC if they had handed over a Consolidated Fund which apparently not only has no funds but is in overdraft.

 

P.S...I still support the reformation of the PPP and will continue to do so. I will not, however, support their return to Government as they are still unfit to govern. Anyone who thinks Guyana was governed well these past 23 years needs to have their head examined.

Well said. the people in GY need to support the gov't

of the day,if they goof up let your voices be heard.

Everyone I spoke to in GT want to see the Govt succeed.  Many have expressed "cautious hope" in Granger.

FM
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by Django:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Observer:

Shaits, you're working hard for the new gov't.  Best of luck.  

 

We need to get away from this self-destructive mindset of giving people a free pass just because we are of the same tribe or same party.

 

We also need to not be unpatriotic and anti-nationalist by hoping the new Government fails. We're better than that. Or at least we should be.

 

I truly hope the new Government succeeds as should we all no matter who we supported in the election. The election is over. Let's support the Government where possible and oppose them where necessary.

 

You and I would be here dogging the PNC if they had handed over a Consolidated Fund which apparently not only has no funds but is in overdraft.

 

P.S...I still support the reformation of the PPP and will continue to do so. I will not, however, support their return to Government as they are still unfit to govern. Anyone who thinks Guyana was governed well these past 23 years needs to have their head examined.

Well said. the people in GY need to support the gov't

of the day,if they goof up let your voices be heard.

Everyone I spoke to in GT want to see the Govt succeed.  Many have expressed "cautious hope" in Granger.

I am hoping for success,i read the telecommunications

bill is on the front burner when parliament convenes

also the money laundering bill.

Django
Last edited by Django

stop tax free salaries from President down, stop duty free, and whatever else where money for the treasury is slipped out and the coffers will grow to give the poor man a bite in his plate. Ministers free housing is a no no, they work for a salary and must provide their housing like every one else.

FM
Originally Posted by gogo:

stop tax free salaries from President down, stop duty free, and whatever else where money for the treasury is slipped out and the coffers will grow to give the poor man a bite in his plate. Ministers free housing is a no no, they work for a salary and must provide their housing like every one else.

you have a point in poor countries,politicians don't need

all that spiff.

Django
Originally Posted by gogo:

stop tax free salaries from President down, stop duty free, and whatever else where money for the treasury is slipped out and the coffers will grow to give the poor man a bite in his plate. Ministers free housing is a no no, they work for a salary and must provide their housing like every one else.

Not sure.  I think VAT/high Duties were put in-place to compensate for the porous tax collection due to the many undocumented/underground transactions taking place.  Many are getting rich and not paying their fair share.  The Govt have to look at ways to mitigate true employees who pay fair taxes through withholding.

 

Baseman's position, they are being effectively "double taxed" forcing many to augment their income through petty bribes and/or participating in the underground economy.  Government employees do bear the brunt of this unjust tax system and so do many legit employees in the private sector.  These inequities in the tax system need to be addressed either via a earned income tax rebate or some other VAT mitigating measures for selected items.   I know it's not a simple administrative process, but "simple" is not always the best solution.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

If they were hedging properly they should not lose money like this. The counterparty on Wall Street who sold the put contract to Gold Board will take the downside hit. They were probably selling in the spot market and they were not updating the price at which they offer the miners. So while spot prices were collapsing, they were probably offering the miners high prices. I can see why the PPP had to do this to entice the miners to declare at the Gold Board. That's not an industry in which only saints operate. The PPP's instinctive communist modus operandi kicked then in. If they came clean they would not have had to run parallel treasuries to fill one hole by digging another. All they should have done is come clean. Collapse in world gold price is not their fault.

FM
Originally Posted by TK:

If they were hedging properly they should not lose money like this. The counterparty on Wall Street who sold the put contract to Gold Board will take the downside hit. They were probably selling in the spot market and they were not updating the price at which they offer the miners. So while spot prices were collapsing, they were probably offering the miners high prices. I can see why the PPP had to do this to entice the miners to declare at the Gold Board. That's not an industry in which only saints operate. The PPP's instinctive communist modus operandi kicked then in. If they came clean they would not have had to run parallel treasuries to fill one hole by digging another. All they should have done is come clean. Collapse in world gold price is not their fault.

Their fault is over spending, and not depositing income in the consolidated fund. The economics of gold should stay with the  trading of gold and net deposit over here. They should not use the nations "bank" in hedging.

 

By the way, who has a sound hedging formula? It is shaky business and  only the brokers win.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by TK:

If they were hedging properly they should not lose money like this. The counterparty on Wall Street who sold the put contract to Gold Board will take the downside hit. They were probably selling in the spot market and they were not updating the price at which they offer the miners. So while spot prices were collapsing, they were probably offering the miners high prices. I can see why the PPP had to do this to entice the miners to declare at the Gold Board. That's not an industry in which only saints operate. The PPP's instinctive communist modus operandi kicked then in. If they came clean they would not have had to run parallel treasuries to fill one hole by digging another. All they should have done is come clean. Collapse in world gold price is not their fault.

Their fault is over spending, and not depositing income in the consolidated fund. The economics of gold should stay with the  trading of gold and net deposit over here. They should not use the nations "bank" in hedging.

 

By the way, who has a sound hedging formula? It is shaky business and  only the brokers win.

That's another issue their waste and bad sequencing of projects. What I am saying is if indeed Gold Board was buying options they will not lose money on the downside. Farmers do it all the time. Airlines do the opposite option. I am not talking about option pricing. They were most likely not reducing the price they were offering the miners, so they dig a deep hole, which BTW is an implicit subsidy to the miners. If the price they offer the miners in G$ is not competitive the miners will take back road. Many do regardless.

FM
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Django:

Finance minister got some pip on his shoulders,

not like them kanta economist.

Doh is Pavi's own words.

I got to give duh bhai credit i stole his line.

 

Django
Originally Posted by Django:
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Django:

Finance minister got some pip on his shoulders,

not like them kanta economist.

Doh is Pavi's own words.

I got to give duh bhai credit i stole his line.

 

The banna is our own white rum poet .

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
We need to get away from this self-destructive mindset of giving people a free pass just because we are of the same tribe or same party.

 

We also need to not be unpatriotic and anti-nationalist by hoping the new Government fails. We're better than that. Or at least we should be.

 

I truly hope the new Government succeeds as should we all no matter who we supported in the election. The election is over. Let's support the Government where possible and oppose them where necessary.

 

You and I would be here dogging the PNC if they had handed over a Consolidated Fund which apparently not only has no funds but is in overdraft.

 

P.S...I still support the reformation of the PPP and will continue to do so. I will not, however, support their return to Government as they are still unfit to govern. Anyone who thinks Guyana was governed well these past 23 years needs to have their head examined.

watch this f**king liar and stone cold bigot try to rewrite history

 

shaitaan, you were the lead regime attack dog on GNI deploying the most hateful, the most mendacious, the most vile and breathtakingly racist PPP 'campaign support' within memory

 

the lack of restraint and absence of boundaries framing your crude tribalism is scary radioactive, making me pause and reassess many, many things i heretofore thought settled (in context) about the existence of EVIL

remember "daag fuh daag, cyat fuh cyat!"? i do

 

typical parasite, yuh now feeling for a new host - reaching up to whisper sweet Hindutva nothings in Moses ears

 

sk*nt and skunk don't even approach adequate to describe yellabelly bigot antiman like u

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by TK:

If they were hedging properly they should not lose money like this. The counterparty on Wall Street who sold the put contract to Gold Board will take the downside hit. They were probably selling in the spot market and they were not updating the price at which they offer the miners. So while spot prices were collapsing, they were probably offering the miners high prices. I can see why the PPP had to do this to entice the miners to declare at the Gold Board. That's not an industry in which only saints operate. The PPP's instinctive communist modus operandi kicked then in. If they came clean they would not have had to run parallel treasuries to fill one hole by digging another. All they should have done is come clean. Collapse in world gold price is not their fault.

TK, Donald Ramotar's daughter Lisavita is Head of the Gold Board. Just as Donald didn't concede to Granger, it looks like Lisavita will not cede her position voluntarily. She definitely has to be removed from office.

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by TK:

If they were hedging properly they should not lose money like this. The counterparty on Wall Street who sold the put contract to Gold Board will take the downside hit. They were probably selling in the spot market and they were not updating the price at which they offer the miners. So while spot prices were collapsing, they were probably offering the miners high prices. I can see why the PPP had to do this to entice the miners to declare at the Gold Board. That's not an industry in which only saints operate. The PPP's instinctive communist modus operandi kicked then in. If they came clean they would not have had to run parallel treasuries to fill one hole by digging another. All they should have done is come clean. Collapse in world gold price is not their fault.

Their fault is over spending, and not depositing income in the consolidated fund. The economics of gold should stay with the  trading of gold and net deposit over here. They should not use the nations "bank" in hedging.

 

By the way, who has a sound hedging formula? It is shaky business and  only the brokers win.

The Hedge fee is determined by the risk and in most cases, the almost mitigate each other from a value perspective.  What the hedge brings, apart from the outside risk of any prediction going way off, it brings "predictability" to projected income.  What are you referring to, hedge the commodity price movement?  The data which will be used by the counter-party is available, so, instead of paying a hefty sum, why not use the data to determine an adequate reserve to absorb the risk?  In other words, hedge it yourself.  If you are talking currency risk, well Guyana imports more than exports, so all exports are already "naturally hedged", at least for key currencies.

 

I don't know all the facts, but it just seems some very sloppy accounting.

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
daughter Lisavita is Head of the Gold Board. Just as Donald didn't concede to Granger, it looks like Lisavita will not cede her position voluntarily. She definitely has to be removed from office.

I guess when Winston finds evidence of gross incompetence and corruption she wants to be easy to arrest.

FM
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by TK:

If they were hedging properly they should not lose money like this. The counterparty on Wall Street who sold the put contract to Gold Board will take the downside hit. They were probably selling in the spot market and they were not updating the price at which they offer the miners. So while spot prices were collapsing, they were probably offering the miners high prices. I can see why the PPP had to do this to entice the miners to declare at the Gold Board. That's not an industry in which only saints operate. The PPP's instinctive communist modus operandi kicked then in. If they came clean they would not have had to run parallel treasuries to fill one hole by digging another. All they should have done is come clean. Collapse in world gold price is not their fault.

TK, Donald Ramotar's daughter Lisavita is Head of the Gold Board. Just as Donald didn't concede to Granger, it looks like Lisavita will not cede her position voluntarily. She definitely has to be removed from office.

You know she is very qualified with two masters degrees. One funded by a merit-based scholarship. I would think there is a role in Guyana for such young people in Guyana with better political leadership. As I said, the hedge issue is a non issue, as it is not possible to lose money on such an option contract unless the counterparty goes belly up. And we know that not happen.

FM
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by TK:

If they were hedging properly they should not lose money like this. The counterparty on Wall Street who sold the put contract to Gold Board will take the downside hit. They were probably selling in the spot market and they were not updating the price at which they offer the miners. So while spot prices were collapsing, they were probably offering the miners high prices. I can see why the PPP had to do this to entice the miners to declare at the Gold Board. That's not an industry in which only saints operate. The PPP's instinctive communist modus operandi kicked then in. If they came clean they would not have had to run parallel treasuries to fill one hole by digging another. All they should have done is come clean. Collapse in world gold price is not their fault.

TK, Donald Ramotar's daughter Lisavita is Head of the Gold Board. Just as Donald didn't concede to Granger, it looks like Lisavita will not cede her position voluntarily. She definitely has to be removed from office.

You know she is very qualified with two masters degrees. One funded by a merit-based scholarship. I would think there is a role in Guyana for such young people in Guyana with better political leadership. As I said, the hedge issue is a non issue, as it is not possible to lose money on such an option contract unless the counterparty goes belly up. And we know that not happen.

I do not care how qualified she is. If she is squatting on a post because of nepotism she ought to be removed. We need to hire people on a competitive way based not only on their credentials but aptitude for work, work experience. Alexi had the paper knowledge but he screwed up laying down cable so credentials are not enough.

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by TK:
Originally Posted by Gilbakka:
Originally Posted by TK:

If they were hedging properly they should not lose money like this. The counterparty on Wall Street who sold the put contract to Gold Board will take the downside hit. They were probably selling in the spot market and they were not updating the price at which they offer the miners. So while spot prices were collapsing, they were probably offering the miners high prices. I can see why the PPP had to do this to entice the miners to declare at the Gold Board. That's not an industry in which only saints operate. The PPP's instinctive communist modus operandi kicked then in. If they came clean they would not have had to run parallel treasuries to fill one hole by digging another. All they should have done is come clean. Collapse in world gold price is not their fault.

TK, Donald Ramotar's daughter Lisavita is Head of the Gold Board. Just as Donald didn't concede to Granger, it looks like Lisavita will not cede her position voluntarily. She definitely has to be removed from office.

You know she is very qualified with two masters degrees. One funded by a merit-based scholarship. I would think there is a role in Guyana for such young people in Guyana with better political leadership. As I said, the hedge issue is a non issue, as it is not possible to lose money on such an option contract unless the counterparty goes belly up. And we know that not happen.

I do not care how qualified she is. If she is squatting on a post because of nepotism she ought to be removed. We need to hire people on a competitive way based not only on their credentials but aptitude for work, work experience. Alexi had the paper knowledge but he screwed up laying down cable so credentials are not enough.

The problem in her appointment it was a matter of optics, which the PPP never cared about. But you will be hard pressed to disentangle nepotism and qualification in this instance.

FM
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by Django:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Observer:

Shaits, you're working hard for the new gov't.  Best of luck.  

 

We need to get away from this self-destructive mindset of giving people a free pass just because we are of the same tribe or same party.

 

We also need to not be unpatriotic and anti-nationalist by hoping the new Government fails. We're better than that. Or at least we should be.

 

I truly hope the new Government succeeds as should we all no matter who we supported in the election. The election is over. Let's support the Government where possible and oppose them where necessary.

 

You and I would be here dogging the PNC if they had handed over a Consolidated Fund which apparently not only has no funds but is in overdraft.

 

P.S...I still support the reformation of the PPP and will continue to do so. I will not, however, support their return to Government as they are still unfit to govern. Anyone who thinks Guyana was governed well these past 23 years needs to have their head examined.

Well said. the people in GY need to support the gov't

of the day,if they goof up let your voices be heard.

Everyone I spoke to in GT want to see the Govt succeed.  Many have expressed "cautious hope" in Granger.

ROTFL.....Who tell yuh dis Lawyer Gyal?

FM

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