Skip to main content

FM
Former Member

Danger of Army in politics

This newspaper published a very important interview with Secretary to the Cabinet Dr Roger Luncheon that seemed to have slipped below the radar of most analysts. In brief, what Dr Luncheon highlighted was the overwhelming role individuals from the Disciplined Forces play in the present Opposition – mainly the PNC and APNU.
The headline of the story proposed that “the ‘military-dominated’ Opposition (is) a clear and potential danger for Guyana”.
It is our contention that the situation is much more untenable and presents a clear and PRESENT danger to the peace and stability of our country. The story mentioned four top level leaders of the Opposition who are all ex-high ranking members of the Disciplined Forces: Opposition, PNC and APNU’s Leader David Granger (former Brigadier and Commandant of the GDF), his political right hand man, PNC MP Joseph Harmon (former Lieutenant Colonel, GDF), former Chief of Staff of the Disciplined Forces, Edward Collins and MP Winston Felix (former Commissioner of Police).
But these individuals only represent the tip of a very large camouflage-coloured iceberg. In the last elections of 2011, Granger mobilised ex-foreign and domestic Army and Police to raise funds and canvass voters.
This they did with military precision, to the consternation of many civilian PNC activists who were shunted aside. Ex-GDF Captain Mike Archer and Lieutenant Malcolm Harripaul were only two of the officers who returned from the US to mobilise on Granger’s behalf.
The “clear and present” danger this state of affairs presents is occasioned by both Guyana’s history and demographics. Unlike its neighbours in South America, Guyana’s politics have not been dominated by the military – up to now, that is.
In those neighbouring countries, their military had been trained by the US as tools for American influence in what they considered to be “their hemisphere”. The Americans excused their intrusion by defining armies as “modernising forces”, to pull the societies from their “backward” state.
Almost uniformly, however, individuals from the military in these countries, such as Batista in Cuba and Somoza in Nicaragua, quickly overthrew their civilian Governments and ruled as dictators for decades.
Most of the British Caribbean, of which Guyana was administered as a part, had escaped this fate. But with the US’s removal of the PPP and imposition of the PNC Government, Forbes Burnham embarked on a “militarisation of the society”.
As described by Professor Ken Danns, he used the US rationalisation to claim the 1:32 military to civilian ratio – highest in the world – was to introduce “discipline” into the “backward” society for it to “modernise”.
Burnham had explicitly instructed the Army officers, such as David Granger, Commandant of the GDF, that while they had to swear personal fealty to him, their “loyalty” to any future Government was a matter for them to decide.
When Burnham unexpectedly died, he was succeeded by Desmond Hoyte. In one of his first move to solidify his power, Hoyte bypassed David Granger and made Joe Singh, Head of the Guyana National Service, as Chief of Staff of the Disciplined Forces.
Hoyte preempted any Army coup by placing an “Indian” at the head of the African dominated Army and moving the Burnhamite Granger to the ceremonial Defence Board. The checkmated Granger ended his days qualifying himself in history at UG.
In the lead up for “free and fair” elections in 1990, a civilian leader brokering a peaceful transition bluntly asserted that “the Army would not accept the Indian Cheddi Jagan, even if he were to win a majority of the votes”.
With the removal of the PNC regime in 1992, the Army’s position on the PPP/C was unsurprisingly considered tenuous. Since that time, activists such as ACDA’s Tacuma Ogunseye have consistently called for the Army not to obey their orders to keep the peace if African Guyanese rejected a PPP/C victory.
With the Opposition now dominated by ex-Disciplined Forces personnel, such exhortations become even more problematic.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

This is just another manifestation of the Indian male, who suffers from masculinity insecurity driving himself into a panic over "dem big strong black man".

 

Jagdeo weakened the GDF, squeezed out those who he couldn't control, and brought in a bunch of milk drinkers ready to sell their own daughters to get a roti and a beer.

 

So why does the PPP (and the Indian male in general) drive himself into a frenzy of pretending to be so weak and easy to violate? 

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:

This is just another manifestation of the Indian male, who suffers from masculinity insecurity driving himself into a panic over "dem big strong black man".

 

Jagdeo weakened the GDF, squeezed out those who he couldn't control, and brought in a bunch of milk drinkers ready to sell their own daughters to get a roti and a beer.

 

So why does the PPP (and the Indian male in general) drive himself into a frenzy of pretending to be so weak and easy to violate? 

lighten up dude

 

deliberately trying to offend does u no credit here

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:

This is just another manifestation of the Indian male, who suffers from masculinity insecurity driving himself into a panic over "dem big strong black man".

So why does the PPP (and the Indian male in general) drive himself into a frenzy of pretending to be so weak and easy to violate? 

 

It isn't. It was previously a genuine concern because this is the Army in a Third World country with a history of being politically loyal and a tool of a race-based dictatorship. Don't try to deny history now.

 

But this is 2015 and I would agree that the GDF is not the political monstrousity it  once was. It's basically a ceremonial guard now.

 

I am going to gloss over your poorly chosen statement about Indian masculinity. I never once met the negro or coolie that could beat my father or grandfather. I myself seem to have gotten along just fine in a 98% black high school (which I chose to attend by turning down my acceptances to Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech). I don't observe any obvious masculine deficiency in the masculinity of my Indian family members and friends. So I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

 

Your caricature of Indian men is pitiful and remarkable at the same time. I didn't know someone of any sense could have these opinions. Succinctly put, being anti-PPP does not mean one must be anti-Indian. You have crossed over into being anti-Indian.

 

I want to be charitable and understand that after some 22 years of an outrageous Indian Government by any standards, some blacks (like you) will say some unkind things about us as a group out of anger and frustration. It is not totally unexpected. Guyana is ruled by a party installed almost exclusively by Indian votes, so the Indians must expect to have their behavior imputed to them. I suspect in 1991, very few Indians had anything good to say about black people. History is merely repeating itself.

FM
Originally Posted by Cobra:

Our discipline forces (GDF/GPF) are neutral and served all Head of States honorably. They only take order from the Commander-in-Chief. 

 

The Disciplined Forces were designed by the PNC as a tool of the PNC and served as such until 1992. Since then the PPP has gutted them, retired the hardcore, bribed who could be bribed, and have essentially neutralized them. 

 

They are now about 1,000 including cooks and bottle washers and about 300 field strength. I'm not sure 300 negroes with no budget could long hold Guyana.

FM

Edward Collins was a big supporter of Janet Jagan.  Just take a look at her swearing in ceremony.  He is in all of the pictures toasting with her.  

Winston Felix was Mr. Gajraj's right hand man.  So I don't know what this statement is all about.

FM
Originally Posted by Wally:

Edward Collins was a big supporter of Janet Jagan.  Just take a look at her swearing in ceremony.  He is in all of the pictures toasting with her.  

Winston Felix was Mr. Gajraj's right hand man.  So I don't know what this statement is all about.

so, Eddie Collins once sucked up to Janet Jagan for obvious (career) reasons . . . so did Hamilton Green!

 

Gajraj was Winston Felix's BOSS! . . . a fact that ultimately didn't prevent Felix from hounding the PPP's strong right arm (and favorite drug lord) bhai Roger Khan out of Guyana into the arms of the US justice waiting in Suriname

 

what's your lameraas point?

FM



quote:

I am going to gloss over your poorly chosen statement about Indian masculinity. I never once met the negro or coolie that could beat my father or grandfather. I myself seem to have gotten along just fine in a 98% black high school (which I chose to attend by turning down my acceptances to Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech). I don't observe any obvious masculine deficiency in the masculinity of my Indian family members and friends. So I don't know what the hell you're talking about.




 

i see you omit the 'size' test, hehehe

FM
Originally Posted by TI:

quote:

I am going to gloss over your poorly chosen statement about Indian masculinity. I never once met the negro or coolie that could beat my father or grandfather. I myself seem to have gotten along just fine in a 98% black high school (which I chose to attend by turning down my acceptances to Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech). I don't observe any obvious masculine deficiency in the masculinity of my Indian family members and friends. So I don't know what the hell you're talking about.


 

i see you omit the 'size' test, hehehe

 

None of my black girlfriends ever complained in that department so I assume I'm fine. Carib beer will of course demand to have me measured and examined carefully because as he constantly points out, there is a penis deficit

 

I sometimes worry about carib. Dis chap posts an awful lot about Indian men, black men, and penis size. He spends waaay too much time on penises for your typical hetero male.

 

I recall one famous (I won't name him) PNC negro who would go on and on about how terrible Indian men are and guess what. He would always hustle his Indian male co-workers fuh lil buggery

FM
Originally Posted by caribny:

This is just another manifestation of the Indian male, who suffers from masculinity insecurity driving himself into a panic over "dem big strong black man".

 

Jagdeo weakened the GDF, squeezed out those who he couldn't control, and brought in a bunch of milk drinkers ready to sell their own daughters to get a roti and a beer.

 

So why does the PPP (and the Indian male in general) drive himself into a frenzy of pretending to be so weak and easy to violate? 

You gotta come up with a different reasoning than fear of black masculinity. How about fear of a force with a disproportionate black composition? Also, I do not know that black masculinity worked as an anti Indian or any other race repellant for black women in my school and they are the determining judges on this matter and not you.  What you do here is massage the brutish stereotype.

 

 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by caribny:

This is just another manifestation of the Indian male, who suffers from masculinity insecurity driving himself into a panic over "dem big strong black man".

 

Jagdeo weakened the GDF, squeezed out those who he couldn't control, and brought in a bunch of milk drinkers ready to sell their own daughters to get a roti and a beer.

 

So why does the PPP (and the Indian male in general) drive himself into a frenzy of pretending to be so weak and easy to violate? 

You gotta come up with a different reasoning than fear of black masculinity. How about fear of a force with a disproportionate black composition? Also, I do not know that black masculinity worked as an anti Indian or any other race repellant for black women in my school and they are the determining judged on this matter and not you.  What you do here is massage the brutish stereotype.

 

 

 

Carib beer sees penises everywhere. No issue is too big or too small for the insertion of a penis.

 

A simple non-penis explanation can never suffice. I know black girls who would never date black men for a variety of reasons. One preferred Indian men. Another white men. I don't draw scientific conclusions from that. It just means I know some black girls with particular racial tastes is all.

 

And any third world party worth their salt should always consider the army's political loyalties. That just makes sense.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
. I suspect in 1991, very few Indians had anything good to say about black people. History is merely repeating itself.

How many Indians defended Freddie Kissoon when he was assaulted by Jagdeo's goons for explaining to people how racist Jagdeo is?  The same thugs moving on to his wife when that didn't shut him up.

 

No.  They, either deny the pervasiveness of racism today, or like you pretend that it is "soft" so can be ignored.  This while they talk loads about what Indians went through under Burnham.  Flour banned, and one would think that only Indians used flour, yet we hear about how Guyana was just like South Africa, except the Indian was the victimized and the blacks the victimizers.

 

Today organs like the Guyana Times, and the Chronicle trumpet blacks as lazy, criminal, and a people who have never made  positive contribution to Guyana.  David Hinds, who fought against the PNC, and was almost killed by them, has written much about anti black racism today.  He by the way not only studied Political Sciences but he TEACHES it!

 

Go through any Guyanese paper and note who the people who you see in leadership.  INDIANS!  PRIVATE sector as well, and not just the PPP!

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by caribny:

This is just another manifestation of the Indian male, who suffers from masculinity insecurity driving himself into a panic over "dem big strong black man".

 

Jagdeo weakened the GDF, squeezed out those who he couldn't control, and brought in a bunch of milk drinkers ready to sell their own daughters to get a roti and a beer.

 

So why does the PPP (and the Indian male in general) drive himself into a frenzy of pretending to be so weak and easy to violate? 

You gotta come up with a different reasoning than fear of black masculinity. How about fear of a force with a disproportionate black composition? Also, I do not know that black masculinity worked as an anti Indian or any other race repellant for black women in my school and they are the determining judged on this matter and not you.  What you do here is massage the brutish stereotype.

 

 

 

Carib beer sees penises everywhere. No issue is too big or too small for the insertion of a penis.

 

A simple non-penis explanation can never suffice. I know black girls who would never date black men for a variety of reasons. One preferred Indian men. Another white men. I don't draw scientific conclusions from that. It just means I know some black girls with particular racial tastes is all.

 

And any third world party worth their salt should always consider the army's political loyalties. That just makes sense.

  the racial stereotypes employed against blacks in Guyana today are the same as that used against blacks in Jim Crow. They come from the same base of insecurity.  Including the notion of the predatory black man raping white (in Jim Crow South) and Indian (in Guyana) females.

 

Now we can sit down and ponder why, but to me the evidence is exactly where I suggest that it is. 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Cobra:

Our discipline forces (GDF/GPF) are neutral and served all Head of States honorably. They only take order from the Commander-in-Chief. 

 

The Disciplined Forces were designed by the PNC as a tool of the PNC and served as such until 1992. Since then the PPP has gutted them, retired the hardcore, bribed who could be bribed, and have essentially neutralized them. 

 

They are now about 1,000 including cooks and bottle washers and about 300 field strength. I'm not sure 300 negroes with no budget could long hold Guyana.

  And yet they are still scaring themselves about this powerless bunch of people fit only to shoot down and kill black people.\

 

WHY?

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by caribny:
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
Originally Posted by Cobra:

Our discipline forces (GDF/GPF) are neutral and served all Head of States honorably. They only take order from the Commander-in-Chief. 

 

The Disciplined Forces were designed by the PNC as a tool of the PNC and served as such until 1992. Since then the PPP has gutted them, retired the hardcore, bribed who could be bribed, and have essentially neutralized them. 

 

They are now about 1,000 including cooks and bottle washers and about 300 field strength. I'm not sure 300 negroes with no budget could long hold Guyana.

  And yet they are still scaring themselves about this powerless bunch of people fit only to shoot down and kill black people.\

 

WHY?

 

Burnham perfected the art of scaring coolie people with black people and the PPP like a good totalitarian party is not gonna let a good source of irrational fear go unexploited. Stalinism 101.

FM
Originally Posted by Shaitaan:
.

Burnham perfected the art of scaring coolie people with black people and the PPP like a good totalitarian party is not gonna let a good source of irrational fear go unexploited. Stalinism 101.

Few Guyanese alive today are intimately familiar with the Burnham era to the degree to which this would win the PPP the election.  Its the same sentiment about "the big, strong, and ignorant black man".  Worked in the Jim Crow South, and still works in Guyana.  Even though the two societies are completely different in time, space and culture.

FM

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×