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Django

February 4 ,2021

Dear Editor,

I write with reference to a letter titled `Bring back the constituency system and reform the rights commissions’ which was published in your online edition dated February 2, 2021. Early in this letter, the writer, Dr. Bertrand Ramcharan, makes a huge error which, to my disappointment, was not fact checked by you. Dr. Ramcharan stated that “The PNC changed the independence constitution and moved away from the consti-tuency system”. Anyone with a passing familiarity of Guyanese history would know that it was the British who removed the constituency system and imposed proportional representation prior to independence.

Whilst I can embrace his call for a single powerful, independent human rights commission, I cannot endorse his call for a complete return to a constituency system. The two main political parties have not served Guyana well for the last five decades. A pure constituency system virtually eliminates the possibility of third parties weakening the stranglehold of the two Leviathans. My preference is a hybrid system. A hybrid system would partially fulfil Dr. Ramcharan’s desire for citizens to “to vote on the basis of the competence of individual candidates” even as it, sadly, reduces the possibilities for third parties.

In some ways, Guyana already has a hybrid system. Article 160 (2) allows Parliament to “make provision for the division of Guyana into” a “number of geographical constituencies.” How-ever, the Leviathans perverted this attempt at a constituency system by requiring, in Article 160 (2) (a), that candidates declare “that he or she supports, or has otherwise identified himself or herself with one and only one of the lists related to that geographical constituency”. This sub-section of the Consti-tution is repugnant and undermines our fledgling democracy. The removal of the list requirement in Article 160 (2) (a) and the subdivision of the regional seats into smaller constituencies will do much to enhance our stagnant democracy whilst retaining possibilities for third parties.

Yours faithfully,

Terrence Campbell

LInk to Dr. Bertrand Ramcharan ,letter.

Bring back the constituency system and reform the rights commissions

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DjangoAdmin

Let the discussion of these concrete ideas begin

February 5, 2021

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Dear Editor,

Leaving aside the interpretation of historical facts, I am grateful to Terrence Campbell (SN Letters, February 4th) for his articulation of the idea of removing the list requirement in the Constitution, which corresponds to my own thinking, as well as his support for a single powerful, independent human rights commission.

Here are two concrete ideas we both support for taking forward the political change process. Might the leadership of the main political formations begin a process of discussing these two concrete ideas? That was the objective behind my letter.

Yours faithfully

Bertrand Ramcharan

2/5/218:18 AM

DjangoAdmin

Reforming our electoral system also requires voter maturity

Source

February 5, 2021

Dear Editor,

I write in response to the letters ‘Bring back the constituency system…’ (2 February 2021 by B. Ramcharan), and the response to that ‘Removing list requirement in Article 160(2) (a)…’(4 February 2021 by T. Campbell).

Firstly, I wish to clear up the confusion on the introduction of the Proportional Representation (PR) system in Guyana. Dr. Ramcharan and Mr. Campbell are at odds on who introduced PR. Historical records would show that they are both partially correct. The colonial government had, for successive electoral cycles done its best to bring about the defeat of Jagan and his party. In fact, Chief Minister Jagan alluded to this in an interview highlighting the British efforts made to secure this and that it had so far not worked. At the 1963 round table conference in October at Lancaster House, it was the PNC and the UF who proposed the adoption of a purely PR system (apologists and commenters for both parties may get riled up, but one thing the British was good at is keeping meticulous records of their activities, and these events are now in the public domain).

Both parties, PNC and UF, refused to budge on various compromises including: an upper house elected by PR while the lower house was constituency based; and a mixed PR-constituency system (much like that in Suriname). Britain would eventually be guided in its quest to remove Jagan from office in imposing the PR system (a system not used in any other British / Commonwealth Caribbean country at the time, including Trinidad and Tobago which – of the commonwealth Caribbean countries – most closely reflects the demographic makeup of Guyana). Secretary of State for the Colonies Duncan Sandys acquiesced to the PNC and UF position to the point where the PPP no longer took part in the final round table conference.

I say the above as a matter of the historical record, not as a debate of right or wrong.

As it relates to the two letters, Dr. Ramcharan calls for the reintroduction of the constituency system. I do not agree that a purely constituency system will work for us, simply, because of examples I have highlighted in a previous letter on this issue. That is: one of the inherent flaws in the constituency system is the ability of a party to get 100% of the seats while receiving a bare majority of the votes. This is not a fairy tale outcome. I have posited examples of how this has occurred in the past 10 years in our own Caribbean backyard, and the parliamentary and constitutional implications of this.

The best reason a pure constituency system won’t work here in Guyana (even though some may argue it works in Trinidad) is our political mentality. Not one person can honestly say if a party wins a greater number of seats, compared to the percentage of votes it receives, then every other party will accept it. It simply won’t happen. Guyanese are not even mature enough politically to have smooth transfer of power like what happens in Trinidad, and if we lack the maturity to accept results in a PR system, then a purely constituency system will inflame the political situation even more.

Mr. Campbell says we already have a hybrid system and quotes the division of the country into geographical constituencies. However the use of the word ‘constituency’ in this case is a far cry from what is normally expected in a constituency system. Our geographical constituencies is simply another way for the padding of party seats by PR. There are no members of parliament responsible to these constituencies (in fact most do not even reside there). The geographical representation aspect of our system is in name only. Geographical representatives are chosen by the party, loyal to the party, removed by the party, and even chosen proportionally in the multi member ‘geographical constituencies’.

As I had posited in my first letter on this, Guyana needs a system that accounts for proportionality to give smaller parties a fighting chance, and also provides for direct representation into smaller constituencies of similar populations to ensure that the person elected to parliament, is representative of the constituency that voted them into office.

At the very minimum, such a system should include a parliament containing:

-A number of proportional seats

-A larger number of constituency seats where each candidate is elected only by the voters of that constituency and, in the case of a vacancy, is replaced by a by-election in that particular constituency.

We do not have to dream up this from scratch. New Zealand utilizes a mixed system much like I have described above, and have had greater small party representation in all of their elections since its introduction. There are even more examples out there. The bottom line is and will be: are we, as a people, really committed to the reform of our system? Are we mature enough to accept that reform? I feel that many people will say yes topically, but deep down feel differently. This is certainly true of our politicians. After all who benefits most from this current system? Definitely not the average citizen – no matter how fanatically enthused they get every five years.

Respectfully,

V. Hemsworth

2/5/218:19 AM

DjangoAdmin

A geographical constituency system will enhance the quality of our democracy

Source

February 5, 2021

Dear Editor,

Distinguished Guyanese Dr. Bertrand Ramcharan – and now Mr. Terrence Campbell – have weighed in with useful contributions on the List System debate. (Read Ramcharan’s letter on Feb 2nd and Campbell’s on Feb 4th in SN). Ramcharan calls for bringing back the Geographical Constituency System (GCS) while Campbell wants a hybrid that incorporates the GCS.

The whole country is broken down into 53 Geographical Districts (GD). Let candidates residing in each GD run for seats in the parliament. They must do so without endorsements and support from political parties. They must use their own resources, record of service and popularity to win elections. So elected, these Members of Parliament will not have ties to ethnic parties. They will be bona fide representatives of their district – and they will represent the best interests of their districts. The key idea of this proposal is to reduce the “racial power” of ethnic parties.

The list system is currently the law of the land. It should be abolished for the simple reason that it deprives geographical constituencies of representation in the parliament. Currently folks in Geographical Districts do not have an identifiable representative in the Parliament. Secondly, the List System aggregates power in the hands of the leaders of PNC and PPP. Each party is perceived as an ethnic party. PPP is perceived as Indian party; PNC as an African party. So, the List System only helps to balkanize the two major races. The List System does not help to promote National Unity; it serves the cause of Disunity.

How do you go about to get support for abolishing the List System?

Both PPP and PNC love the List System. They will never agree to cut down the pillars that empower them. Ask ABC & EU countries to support the cause of Constitutional Reform. These liberal democracies (LD) recently entered the fray – and settled the 5-month long election impasse. By the same token, they also have the power to insist on and possibly even to impose Constitutional Reform.

Replacing the List System with the Geographical Constituency System would be a monumental first step to reduce the power of racial politics which is the source of all racial tensions and racial troubles in the land. This single measure enhances the quality of our democracy and also helps to promote national unity.

Sincerely,

Mike Persaud

2/5/218:21 AM

seignetSenior Member

In 1918, there was a war and the Spanish flu. Mankind created the League of Nations to deal with mans inconsistencies.

I believe the world is in for a change, something different than the last attempt. I think White People on the PLanet will be more assertive, dem Proud Boys nah going to give up because of Jagmeet Singh.

2/5/218:53 AM

Ramakant-PSenior Member

The constitutional system will enable the PPP to win 60% of the seats.

2/5/219:07 AM

DjangoAdmin

@Ramakant-P posted:
The constitutional system will enable the PPP to win 60% of the seats.

Can you explained in more detail.

2/5/2110:25 AM

DjangoAdmin

@seignet posted:
In 1918, there was a war and the Spanish flu. Mankind created the League of Nations to deal with mans inconsistencies.
I believe the world is in for a change, something different than the last attempt. I think White People on the PLanet will be more assertive, dem Proud Boys nah going to give up because of Jagmeet Singh.

When small developing nations politicians are only for power grabbing using influence from developed nations ,it is new form of Colonialism . The small nations need to settle their political differences ,they can be successful developers of the country for all the people. There is still hope for Guyana ,a country with abundant natural resources.

Read who called declared the Taiwan Office in Guyana.

2/5/2110:36 AM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
Can you explained in more detail.

Rama keeping count of all dem covid death as potential jumbie votes for the PPP...y’all need to campaign fuh dem jumbie votes...

2/5/2111:02 AM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
Rama keeping count of all dem covid death as potential jumbie votes for the PPP...y’all need to campaign fuh dem jumbie votes...

Seems like you are on some special rocker ,supporting ballot box stuffing.

2/5/2111:08 AM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
Seems like you are on some special rocker ,supporting ballot box stuffing.

Are you insinuating that is dem jumbie stuffed ballot boxes? Sorry man but I don’t believe in jumbie. I believe in the live video of Mingo and Lolobai stuffing though...unless of course you are calling dem jumbies hahahahaha

2/5/2111:16 AM

MitwahSenior Member

@Ramakant-P posted:
The constitutional system will enable the PPP to win 60% of the seats.

And how much % did they get from the list system?

2/5/2111:17 AM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05

You may like this type of operation ,rocking away.

2/5/2111:19 AM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
Are you insinuating that is dem jumbie stuffed ballot boxes? Sorry man but I don’t believe in jumbie.
I believe in the live video of Mingo and Lolobai
stuffing though...unless of course you are calling dem jumbies hahahahaha

Is that the only live video viewed ? perhaps lots of jumbies around while rocking away.

2/5/2111:21 AM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
@sachin_05
You may like this type of operation ,rocking away.

Trying to figure out what that video got to do with the price of eggs in a China market...

2/5/2111:33 AM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
Trying to figure out what that video got to do with the price of eggs in a China market...

When there are insightful limitations ,it's expected .

2/5/2111:36 AM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
When there are insightful limitations ,it's expected .

I guess my limitations are I don’t see Jumbies....are they present in the video?

2/5/2111:38 AM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
I guess my limitations are I don’t see Jumbies....

They are around you ,hence the continuous repetitions ,seek wan obeah man for help.

2/5/2111:41 AM

Ramakant-PSenior Member

@Mitwah posted:
And how much % did they get from the list system?

You posted it a dozen times, but I am not talking about votes, I am talking about seats.

2/5/2111:43 AM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
They are around you ,hence the continuous repetitions ,seek wan obeah man for help.

Sorry man don’t believe in obeah or obeah man either...

2/5/2111:44 AM

Ramakant-PSenior Member

@Django posted:
Can you explained in more detail.

I can but I wouldn't. The 1961 General elections proved my point.

2/5/2111:46 AM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
Sorry man don’t believe in obeah or obeah man either...

So what's the obsession with Jumbies ?

Anyway the purpose of the thread is being derailed.

2/5/2111:50 AM

DjangoAdmin

@Ramakant-P posted:
I can but I wouldn't. The 1961 General elections proved my point.

What's you take on removing the Closed List System from the Constitution ?

2/5/2111:53 AM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
So what's the obsession with Jumbies ?
Anyway the purpose of the thread is being derailed.

No obsession. But when a country’s election is determined by dead people [jumbie]according to chief election officer i think it becomes relevant in this thread..

2/5/2112:12 PM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
No obsession. But when a country’s election is determined by dead people [jumbie]according to chief election officer i think it becomes relevant in this thread..

Any way to deter dead people and migrants from voting , the voters list have to be sanitized periodically by removing them ,there is no way the current voters list is accurate .

You are aware which political party was against sanitizing the voters list ,perhaps they benefited at the polls ,Guyana elections are close and there should be fairness. Any thing to say about the statement.

2/5/2112:26 PM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
Any way to deter dead people and migrants from voting , the voters list have to be sanitized periodically by removing them ,there is no way the current voters list is accurate .
You are aware which political party was against sanitizing the voters list ,perhaps they benefited at the polls ,Guyana elections are close and there should be fairness. Any thing to say about the statement.

One of the primary function of GECOM is to “periodically sanitized”the deceased from the voters list, who’s fault is it if the administration who don’t have a clue how to run a cake shop fail to have GECOM perform their duties?

2/5/211:03 PM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
One of the primary function of GECOM is to “periodically sanitized”the deceased from the voters list,
who’s fault is it if the administration who don’t have a clue how to run a cake shop fail to have GECOM perform their duties?

GECOM is an independent body , is it not ? why are you afraid to call out the political party that thwarted sanitizing the voters list.

We know in your mindset of superiority only one group have the know how to run cake shops in Guyana. You need to look at history who were leaders in all areas of development of Guyana ,hopefully you may realize when superiors came on scene.

2/5/211:37 PM

MitwahSenior Member

@sachin_05 posted:
One of the primary function of GECOM is to “periodically sanitized”the deceased from the voters list, who’s fault is it if the administration who don’t have a clue how to run a cake shop fail to have GECOM perform their duties?

The PPP had 23 years to clean it up but they neglected and objected. Why?

2/5/212:22 PM

TotaramSenior Member

I am sick and tired of people who clearly are miseducated describing people as not being able to run a cake shop. Who the hell wants to run a saltfish stinking , lemonade selling, cake shop? The debate is about running a country. Here the record will show that the Coalition did better than the PPP. If those throwing around the cake shop crap want to debate this let's get going but bring hard statistics to the discussion. I will not respond to silly bilge.

2/5/212:41 PM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
GECOM is an independent body , is it not ? why are you afraid to call out the political party that thwarted sanitizing the voters list.
We know in your mindset of superiority only one group have the know how to run cake shops in Guyana. You need to look at history who were leaders in all areas of development of Guyana ,hopefully you may realize when superiors came on scene.

So you think because they are independent body they could do as they please..no wonder Mingo and Lolobai looking at jail time.

GECOM is entrusted to perform tasks on the ruling administration behalf, failure to perform their duties in accordance with the constitution the buck stops with their employers who is the current administration - the coalition not the opposition.

I did history in college - western civilization starting with Mesopotamia, the romans, Egyptian, Greek, Gengis khan, the ottomans, unlike you I am educated enough to know no human race/group holds the superior status forever.

2/5/212:46 PM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Totaram posted:
I am sick and tired of people who clearly are miseducated describing people as not being able to run a cake shop. Who the hell wants to run a saltfish stinking , lemonade selling, cake shop? The debate is about running a country. Here the record will show that the Coalition did better than the PPP. If those throwing around the cake shop crap want to debate this let's get going but bring hard statistics to the discussion. I will not respond to silly bilge.

Here is a copy from BOG ...read it and weep for your PNC...

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2/5/213:07 PM

cainTired old hippie

So basically what it boils down to is, PPP knows how to run a cake shop but is jus that they doan know how fo keep it clean.

2/5/213:27 PM

MitwahSenior Member

@sachin_05 posted:
One of the primary function of GECOM is to “periodically sanitized”the deceased from the voters list, who’s fault is it if the administration who don’t have a clue how to run a cake shop fail to have GECOM perform their duties?

They were too busy running the bakeries; getting up at 3:00AM, and most of them were busy teaching children and running schools, delivering children at birth, operating foundries, providing health care in the hospitals, mining for gold and diamonds, and holding down jobs in the Civil Service. I am going to drink some mauby. wavey

2/5/214:05 PM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
So you think because they are independent body they could do as they please..no wonder Mingo and Lolobai looking at jail time.
GECOM is entrusted to perform tasks on the ruling administration behalf, failure to perform their duties in accordance with the constitution the buck stops with their employers who is the current administration - the coalition not the opposition.
I did history in college - western civilization starting with Mesopotamia, the romans, Egyptian, Greek, Gengis khan, the ottomans, unlike you I am educated enough to know no human race/group holds the superior status forever.

What !!! perform task on the ruling administration ?

College haven't done anything good, avoid getting personal ,samjhe.

2/5/218:12 PM

Former Member

Oh Gawd! Iz wen dis gun.dun?

2/5/218:52 PM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
What !!! perform task on the ruling administration ?
College haven't done anything good, avoid getting personal ,samjhe.

You seem surprised why? You thought Congress place was their official employer?

2/6/214:51 AM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
You seem surprised why? You thought Congress place was their official employer?

LOL

It's your thoughts ,here is what you said "GECOM is entrusted to perform tasks on the ruling administration behalf"

2/6/217:09 AM

sachin_05Senior Member

@Django posted:
LOL
It's your thoughts ,here is what you said "GECOM is entrusted to perform tasks on the ruling administration behalf"

Taking orders directly from the cake shop administration to rig is not what they are there for...jail time awaits some y’all rass...

2/6/218:54 AM

DjangoAdmin

@sachin_05 posted:
Taking orders directly from the cake shop administration to rig is not what they are there for...jail time awaits some y’all rass...

That is the response to what you said "GECOM is entrusted to perform tasks on the ruling administration behalf"

Try again country man.

2/6/219:03 AM

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Let the discussion of these concrete ideas begin

Reforming our electoral system also requires voter maturity

A geographical constituency system will enhance the quality of our democracy

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