Skip to main content

FM
Former Member

In ancient times, the total education was concentrated on the establishment of the existence of God, heaven and hell. If justice is followed, God rewards you with heaven and if injustice is done, God punishes you in the hell. If you say that God exists, people may not believe and may commit sins by which the balance of the society gets disturbed. The existence of God is to be proved through very deep logical analysis and discussions. All the seminars and conferences in ancient India ran on single subject, which is about the existence and nature of God. Today, people think that the ancient scholars in India wasted lot of time on this useless subject.

 

Today, scholars spend lot of time on seminars and debates dealing with developments of new materials, machines and applications of energy. In fact, the ancient scholars were highly wise and the modern scholars are highly foolish. The results of the present research in Science are leading to the improvement of several amenities of the humanity. But, these amenities are now realized to be the ways of destruction of the environment leading to global calamity in a very short period of time. Our ancient scholars did not encourage such research in science since the advanced knowledge of energy and materials will lead to the destruction of humanity. Moreover, they concentrated on the logical understanding of the existence of God so that the resulting balanced society without corruption and chaos will give immense happiness to the life of the humanity. We now realize that the ancient materials and technologies were far better for health and environmental balance of the world. Added to this happiness, a strong fear for God and hell were well established in the mind of every human being through long period of spiritual education.

 

Little knowledge of materials and technologies was sufficient for the happiness of humanity and to maintain the ecological balance. This aspect is at the external physical level. Regarding the internal intellectual level, intensified realization resulted in every human being regarding the existence of God. After a long period of learning, the human being came out of the ancient university with thorough realization of the existence of God, hell and heaven so that in the practical life, the human being perfectly followed the justice rejecting the injustice at any cost. People did not know even the word β€˜corruption’ because everybody was afraid of God and hell. Today, after a long period of learning, the person coming out of the modern university is not at all in touch with the subject of God. Moreover, the person is well versed in the technologies of energy and materials and is dedicating the total life for increasing amenities, which ultimately lead to environmental pollution and global destruction.

 

The present human being is well versed in the concepts of profit and loss and is a master of business administration. Everybody wants to improve the personal amenities even through corruption. Corruption has become a spontaneous global phenomenon. Metals undergo corrosion and the human beings undergo the process of corruption. The government has become corrupt. The government officials are corrupt. Even the judiciary system has become corrupt. In such atmosphere of powerful corruption and corrupt human beings, can you expect a system like lokpal to work perfectly to control the corruption? When all the human beings are corrupt, the members of the lokpal also become corrupt. You cannot bring the angels from heaven to appoint them as members of lokpal. After sometime, you will have to bring another control in the system to control the lokpals! There will be no end to this and the desired aim can never be fulfilled.

 

 Only Solution for Present Day Corruption

 

The only solution for this is to revert back to the ancient system and concentrate on spiritual education. Today, the government does not spend a single rupee on the propagation of spiritual education. Only a few persons in private and personal sector like saints are taking interest in propagating the spiritual education. Atleast, the huge funds of very important temples like Tirupati should be spent on the propagation of spiritual education. You are starting colleges and universities with the funds of such temple, in which again the materialistic education is propagated. Kings used to construct huge temples and spend lot of money on temples. In fact, these temples were the universities in which learned professors of the spiritual education propagated the spiritual knowledge in the humanity. Lot of encouragement was given by kings to this spiritual knowledge, which controls crime and corruption from the basic level itself. Even if you spend 1/10th of what you spend on the control of crime and corruption for the sake of the propagation of spiritual knowledge, the crime and corruption will disappear from the root itself. The government should open its eyes on this basic issue and reform the education system in the light of this concept. The negligence of the present blind government on spiritual education is the main reason for the present crime and corruption in the society. The present system of education stressing mainly on science and technology for improving the amenities of humanity is the reason for the environmental pollution and the future untimely global destruction. If you revert back to the ancient education system, every human being will come out as a citizen with in-built aversion to corruption and crime. Such ancient education, concentrated on God, will also reduce the over attachment to amenities and this will lead to ecological balance and global safety.

For the sake of control of crime and corruption, the existence of God need not be accepted. Such acceptance will be based on falsehood and such realization is not real.

 

Moreover, the result of such false realization will not be true also. It means that the control of crime and corruption cannot be achieved by forcing you to accept the existence of God for the sake of control of corruption and crime. The realization of existence of God should be independent and should not be for any purpose. Whether the crime and corruption are controlled or not, the existence of God should be realized on its own merit and truth. What I mean to say is that the ancient scholars did not create the concept of God for the sake of control of crime and corruption to achieve the balance of society. The existence of God was realized as the independent concept on the credit of its own merit.


The ancient education system is composed of several schools like logic (Tarka), grammer (Vyakaranam), analysis of sacred scriptures (Mimmamsa), etc. and all the schools aimed at the subject of God (philosophy) only. The student, after realizing the existence of God with the help of all the schools of education (Shaastras), comes out as a citizen fearing for crime and corruption. Therefore, the existence of God is primary basis and the control of corruption and crime is the secondary consequence. Hence, it is wrong, as some people say, that the concept of God by itself is not true, but, should be respected and maintained for the sake of control of crime and corruption. In such a way, the crime and corruption can never be controlled because one knows that the basic concept is only created story for control in crime and corruption.

 

 

www.universal-spirituality.org

Universal Spirituality for World Peace

Replies sorted oldest to newest

This is just your view of the world and to say it is the saving grace for it is a load of bunk. In ancient times, barbarians raped and pillaged from one end of the planet to another each subscribing to its own sense of divine inspiration and often killed on that account.

 

Hinduism on its own developed a multitude of schools each with its own merit and many with the grotesque sin of varna. It still strangles india today making outcasts of some 300 million people.

 

I cannot say much for the other religions either since each on its own has heaped upon the world uncountable instances of hideous brutality. If religion does anything good it is to create in groups and out groups and the out groups are always the "bad" ones.

 

The greatest thing that has happened to the planet is the realization that morality does not need god and one can on their own come to conclusions as the the nature and necessity for goodness since it is inevitably the efficient cause. And here goodness does not need a god principle. It  can amazingly come from something as surprisingly as a selfish gene ( in the sense of Dawkins).

 

As for your indifference to science, that is inane. If there is a god then he she it  made our minds and our minds are windows to the universe. We are therefore the universe apprehending itself. Science is by extension that means to end schema which we know ourselves. While you pretend you can achieve knowledge by introspection you in the process fabricate layered schemes of assumptions.

 

Sitting on our asses and chanting the lotus sutra or reciting the lords prayer or the shahaadah or any of a multitude of sacred whisperings would not create this medium we use to communicate. It would not give us better crops, quicker transportation better medicine or methodology for sustaining our burgeoning populations. Science will. 3

 

If we destroy ourselves it is not on account of our lack of god. It will be because that is what must be. All things come into being and pass into nothingness, we likewise maybe. It is pure arrogance to say we can be otherwise than what is the background cadence of the universe, entropic decay.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

See, Morality without the concept of God will not last long. 

It is true that a few people exploited the concept of God for personal benefits. But, based on the few exceptions, you should not remove the basic system itself. A few railway accidents happen and due to such accidents, you should not cancel all the trains. You should concentrate to avoid the accidents. Similarly, some students might have copied in the examinations. Try to catch, such students. But, do not remove the system of examination itself. The system serves majority, doing lot of good. You forget the vast positive side of the system based on the minor negative side. The concept of God controls the sin in the society. If the concept of God is removed, lot of people will do lot of sins since already the ways to escape the punishment in courts are already available. The society will be crushed into pieces in the absence of the fear for sin. If God disappears, the hell disappears subsequently.

 

The concept of sin will drown and destroy the society like a Tsunami. However, this does not mean that the concept of God is again a created view only to save the society. Such conclusions are not correct. The concept of God is basically true and we have explained the positive side of such concept. It is a real concept and hence, the positive side is also real. Of course, the minor negative side is also real and control should be implemented to check-up such negative exploitations. 

FM

Social justice cannot be maintained if the existence of God is not accepted. If God does not exist, what is the use of reducing the over attachment to this world? If you say that the over attachment to worldly bonds leads to sin and injustice, which in turn disturb the balance of society, nobody understands the overall effect of it. In such case, everybody wants that all other human beings should follow pravrutti to maintain the balance of the society and individually commits sins. This becomes the famous story that everybody should pour a cup of milk in the empty tank kept by the king so that everybody can pour a cup of water, which cannot be detected.

 

Everybody wants the social justice and balance of society, but at the same time wants his or her over attachment result in the sin, to proceed in undetectable way. You cannot control every human being through the law of court and the police department. The reason is that every individual working in any department is with the same psychology. Today, you are hearing the news that an honorable judge of the honorable court has taken huge bribe to protect the injustice! Every employee in every department is influenced by the corruption. The employee may belong to government or administration or parliament or assembly or even judiciary system. Very few only exist, who follow justice due to fear of God.

FM

Society is not balanced by god. It is balanced by prohibitions and sanctions. If you steal you are punished. If you do not participate you are expelled or suffer from want.


=========

If that is case, then why there are so many cases in which criminal escape punishment through use of expert advocates in the court?


The kingdom or government of atheists, which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court.

 

Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

 

At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism, you deny God and in pseudo-secularism, you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, β€œHave you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it’s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven?” Ofcourse My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell.

 

But, if you practice the path of justice, there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice, you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteetiβ€”Gita). Thus, the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.


FM

Such measures are not permanent. Permanent measure will be to make the people understand the existence of God and Hell. Such fear will definitely enter the inner consciousness and will result in discipline since there is some reason one has to not to do sin. But an atheist he may resists for some time doing sins, but ultimately he will think that there is not God, Hell etc and what is the use of me to control my self and do not do corruption. This will result into atheist committing corruption and crime since no body is there to punish him or reward him. Therefore the essential is to propagate the divine knowledge about the existence of GOd deeply to poeple giving strong thrust on spiritual knowledge through education itself.

FM



One would not want an idiot adjudicating a grievance. One needs sage mediation hence the necessity of a court system.

 

Scandinavians are 80% self confessed atheists and among them we find the most just and caring societies on the planet. Religion based states are inevitably dogmatic and across time from Christians to Muslims to anthropomorphic deity governed places as in ancient Greece or Egypt etc never found serene grace. To the contrary they were all at some point atrocious and for all intents and purpose evil. 

 

Everyone practices the path to justice. Unfortunately we are humans and always stumble because there is no perfect system as you have conjured up in your head. And there is no pseudo secularism. Either one is or one is not.

 

Christian conservatives in the US for example want democracy  on the basis of their theology but they cannot have their cake and eat it as well. Theirs is a recipe no less than yours for totalitarianism.

God doesn’t mind even atheism provided the justice is maintained in the society

 

     Miracles only prove the existence of unimaginable God.  Anybody including the demon demonstrating the miracles is in the service of God to establish the existence of God to an atheist. Miracles exist widely with God in human form, devotees and even evil demons.  Establishment of existence of original unimaginable God is the fundamental subject that needs wide publicity and hence God has spread miracles in wide range.  Once the existence of God is accepted, the atheist becomes theist.  This is the foundation step.

 

 Even Shankara spent all His life in the first step only to convert atheistic Purvamimamsakas and Buddhists.   Existence of God is needed even to establish Pravrutti through creating fear for hell.  If God and hell are not accepted, the sin will grow to climax in a slow and steady way.  Atheists promise to follow justice even without faith in God, but such promise is not having strong basis and it can be violated at any time.  God doesn’t mind even atheism provided the justice is maintained in the society.  But there is always a possibility of violation of justice if the hell disappears from the mind.  When you are provoked to do injustice, at least the concept of hell and God will control you to certain extent.  At least the percentage of people committing sins will be reduced.  Of course, the concept of God and hell is not bringing the percentage to Zero, but if that concept is totally absent, by one day or other the percentage will be hundred.

 

For this point only, God comes down to establish His existence and there by create the fear for hell so that at least the percentage of sin and injustice comes to a minimum level, though complete eradication is impossible.  God is not at all  bothered to establish Himself for the sake of Nivrutti.  If the society runs completely on justice, He will not mind even if all the human beings are atheists.

 

FM
Originally Posted by Nehru:
Originally Posted by baseman:

Nothing is ever permanent, only death.  Everyone is corrupt, even priests, pandits and Imams.  The only deterrence to human greed is a threat of personal extermination.

So then there is no solution?

You post your thoughts and ideas.  Illustrate, by example, a successful model where it has worked.

FM

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×