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FM
Former Member
The APNU-AFC-PPP Speaker debacle confirms Guyana’s failed political system
JANUARY 6



Dear Editor,
This country is a basket case. There is no other way to put it. The real problem in Guyana’s political system is the political parties.
Largely ethno-centric and dominated by selfish, inept and Machiavellian minds, these parties continue to hobble the development of this nation.

November 28, 2011 was supposed to be a wake-up call. Instead, it has become a recurring nightmare.
From the PPP barefaced picking of virtually the same Cabinet to APNU fool’s masquerade that is, its current protest for protest sake, to the impasse between the AFC and APNU over the Speaker, to APNU’s inability to count just over two thousand statements of poll (SOP) and tell us the results, we keep getting the same signals of stupidity, arrogance and the ‘me, me, me’ mentality that cripples this country from political charlatans calling themselves representatives of the people.
What to make of this Speaker impasse? The PPP claims it is entitled to it by virtue of winning the most seats. APNU and the AFC claim it by virtue of controlling the majority in Parliament. The PPP knows it has no rightful entitlement.
Between the AFC and APNU, the larger party (APNU) should pick the Speaker. I don’t know of any Parliament anywhere in which a party with seven out of sixty-five seats such as the AFC holds the Speaker chair. I seriously don’t know on what legitimate grounds the AFC believes it is entitled to the Speaker position.
If the AFC is negotiating away its independence and standing as an intermediary party in Parliament in order to gain a Speaker post, it must be condemned. If the AFC is somehow cutting a deal with APNU that gives the AFC the Speaker title for the AFC’s unwavering commitment to APNU’s legislative agenda and manoeuvres in Parliament, it must be soundly vilified.
Truthfully, this Speaker fiasco should be a wake up call for the AFC and an opportunity to carve out a proper position of independence in Parliament. The fact that the AFC is at loggerheads with APNU is a clear signal to the public that the AFC is going to have its own position, which will differ from APNU.
AFC needs to profit from this dispute and to build on that image by dropping the Speaker fight and publicly restating its position as an autonomous party and not some Parliamentary lackey of APNU.
Despite APNU’s entitlement to the selection of the Speaker, it cannot harm APNU to consider giving the AFC the Speaker role as an offering for the AFC’s support and as an inducement for a prolonged combined working relationship in Parliament.
While Nagamootoo possesses all the valuable propensities for the Speaker role, APNU’s trust issues respecting Nagamootoo cannot be overlooked.
As the major partner in the opposition, it cannot be disregarded. APNU fears Nagamootoo could use the Speaker’s vote to break the deadlock by voting for the PPP or voting against APNU and the majority opposition at times.
If Nagamootoo refuses to vote, the Parliament is deadlocked. APNU wants a party hack who will toe the line and it cannot be blamed for that position in a Parliament where the majority clings by a single vote. Nagamootoo is too much of a maverick in this sense.
In fact, Nagamootoo is better suited for the Parliamentary trenches where he could scathingly hold both the PPP and APNU to account.
Now,(Deborah) Backer is not necessarily a better candidate for Speaker than Nagamootoo. However, Backer is the choice of the largest party in an opposition-controlled majority Parliament.
The AFC should respect that fact. The question is whether this insistence on Nagamootoo getting the Speaker role is coming from Nagamootoo or from the AFC’s leadership sans Nagamootoo.
Either way, the demand should be dropped and the business of Parliament gotten on with. No one is entitled to anything in this country.
If Nagamootoo is driving the AFC’s pursuit of the Speaker role, he should know that the allegations of power drunkenness that the PPP tried to pin on him during the election campaign will rear its ugly countenance the longer this nightmare rolls on.
Maybe the AFC is using this Speaker impasse to test APNU’s resolve and to prove its political mettle. If this is the case, we got the message.
The AFC must now stop its foolishness and move on. The AFC should be publicly pursuing a Parliamentary strategy of strategic engagement, meaning it will support whichever party (PPP or APNU) has the best agenda and accommodates its own agenda best.
This would mean voting for the PPP at times and APNU at other times or not voting at all on some occasions. This entire tragedy underlines the real problem with Guyana’s politics lies with political parties.
Political parties in Guyana are filled with hard-headed, tactless and small-minded individuals who are consumed with power, self-aggrandisement and pettiness.
If this Speaker disaster is the template for the future, more Guyanese will be disgusted and turned off from political participation and we will have a Parliament of knaves and warmongers.
M. Maxwell

Replies sorted oldest to newest

I do not agree that the AFC should drop the demands for the speaker role. Maxwell is articulating his view which in a traditional game theory perspective ( the only one we have here) is the wrong one. The difference here is one vote for any motion to carry and that one vote is in the AFC hands. That is the view from which they should look at everything. The other parties would kick them to the curb otherwise and as no spacial criteria such as number of seats held by a party affords them the speaker position, the AFC has every right to seek it as well.

They cannot let the PPP have it. The PPP can let them have it. Actually, they would be in a better position here than with the APNU . If both larger parties hold out, the AFC will be forced to turn it over to the APNU but with the reprimand that nothing else from that point is free.

They must not capitulate but compete from a position of strength. Maxwell should go read a damn book on strategy. No one capitulates and get respect in power exchanges. One gets respect only in commanding it. The AFC will only build its base with looking after its base. That means fighting for every inch and never giving any.
FM
The pumped up headlines had be fooled into believing that I was going to get some sound advise. Instead it turns out to be the words of a child who has just discovered GNI on his one laptop per family netbook Big Grin.

Bai Mara, next time you want to post something, pen it yourself. I am surprised that you are so illiterate as to have been compelled to copy and paste the ramblings of a juvenile.
Mr.T
Mr T it seems this fella Maxwell is just comming out of a Coma.

He seems to be Unaware that AFC have stated even before the Results of the Elections were officially announced that they will not be a puppet to PPP or APNU.
AFC will maintain their Independence and use their Parlimantry position to force posative changes in guyana and end Racial Politices, Corruption & Mismanagement that has existed in Govt since Independence.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Jalil:
Mr T it seems this fella Maxwell is just comming out of a Coma.

He seems to be Unaware that AFC have stated even before the Results of the Elections were officially announced that they will not be a puppet to PPP or APNU.
AFC will maintain their Independence and use their Parlimantry position to force posative changes in guyana and end Racial Politices, Corruption & Mismanagement that has existed in Govt since Independence.


Nagamoottoo is not right for the speakers chair. Maxwell made the points quite clear.

The AFC should enter their candidate(not Nagamoottoo that is a big mistake)and let selection take its course. They should vote according to their conscience-as Maxwell states, 'be independent'

Ramjattan should step down from the leadership-it is not his game. He should remain in parliament. The leader of the AFC at this time better served outside of parliament. To build the party. Nagamootoo must tow the line.
S
This is dotishness and a circumvention to justify APNU's claim to the Speakership. He argues that the party with the majority seats in the Opposition has the right to the position. Well, duh! How does that supersede the party with the majority seats in Parliament, that being the PPP?
FM
The PPP has the Presidency. APNU has the leader of the Opposition. AFC must hold out for the speakership. Maxwell is pushing the PNC agenda.
THe AFC must remain independent of the PPP and the PNC.
Mitwah
quote:
Originally posted by Jalil:
Mr T it seems this fella Maxwell is just comming out of a Coma.

He seems to be Unaware that AFC have stated even before the Results of the Elections were officially announced that they will not be a puppet to PPP or APNU.
AFC will maintain their Independence and use their Parlimantry position to force posative changes in guyana and end Racial Politices, Corruption & Mismanagement that has existed in Govt since Independence.


How will they end racial politics? By doing what? Blacks will always vote for blacks...
FM
The AFC needs to throw in their lot with the PPP as it now appears that APNU dose not share common viewpoints. This will not be too far fetched considering that AFC supporters were neglected PPP members prior to jumping ship. This will certainly be poetic justice. ahhahahah
FM
quote:
Originally posted by BGurd_See:
The AFC needs to throw in their lot with the PPP as it now appears that APNU dose not share common viewpoints. This will not be too far fetched considering that AFC supporters were neglected PPP members prior to jumping ship. This will certainly be poetic justice. ahhahahah


In that way Caribj cannot accuse trotman of racism... Then The PNC will continue to kick coolie's ass as the indos are siding with each other.. Bloddy racists!!
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
I do not agree that the AFC should drop the demands for the speaker role. Maxwell is articulating his view which in a traditional game theory perspective ( the only one we have here) is the wrong one. The difference here is one vote for any motion to carry and that one vote is in the AFC hands. That is the view from which they should look at everything. The other parties would kick them to the curb otherwise and as no spacial criteria such as number of seats held by a party affords them the speaker position, the AFC has every right to seek it as well.

They cannot let the PPP have it. The PPP can let them have it. Actually, they would be in a better position here than with the APNU . If both larger parties hold out, the AFC will be forced to turn it over to the APNU but with the reprimand that nothing else from that point is free.

They must not capitulate but compete from a position of strength. Maxwell should go read a damn book on strategy. No one capitulates and get respect in power exchanges. One gets respect only in commanding it. The AFC will only build its base with looking after its base. That means fighting for every inch and never giving any.


I agree that the AFC should not abandon their pursuit of the speakership and this is perhaps the only disagreement I may have with Maxwell's position above. Remember the AFC campaign on a platform of change and they ought to remain steadfast to the principle of change and not being a surrogate to neither the two dinosaurs in the house. Their parliamentary agenda should at all time be governed by what is good for the nation and not the political ambition of anyone. It was a colossal mistake for Nagamottoo to say that if APNU would not support the AFC nomination for the speakership, then they should be free to negotiate with the PPP. Any horse trading or perception of horse trading with either the PPP or APNU is bad optics for the AFC. As Maxwell said "If the AFC is negotiating away its independence and standing as an intermediary party in Parliament in order to gain a Speaker post, it must be condemned. If the AFC is somehow cutting a deal with APNU that gives the AFC the Speaker title for the AFC’s unwavering commitment to APNU’s legislative agenda and manoeuvres in Parliament, it must be soundly vilified."
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Mara:
. . . for the AFC’s unwavering commitment to APNU’s legislative agenda and manoeuvres in Parliament

Why is this (extreme and tendentious) hypothetical quid pro quo the only one you can think of?
FM
quote:
Originally posted by redux:
quote:
Originally posted by Mara:
. . . for the AFC’s unwavering commitment to APNU’s legislative agenda and manoeuvres in Parliament

Why is this (extreme and tendentious) hypothetical quid pro quo the only one you can think of?


Now do I really have to answer that? Perhaps it has missed your critical eyes that it was a direct quote from Maxwells letter and how did you miss the preceding statement of mine "Any horse trading or perception of horse trading with either the PPP or APNU is bad optics for the AFC."?
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Mara:
quote:
Originally posted by redux:
quote:
Originally posted by Mara:
. . . for the AFC’s unwavering commitment to APNU’s legislative agenda and manoeuvres in Parliament

Why is this (extreme and tendentious) hypothetical quid pro quo the only one you can think of?


Now do I really have to answer that? Perhaps it has missed your critical eyes that it was a direct quote from Maxwells letter and how did you miss the preceding statement of mine "Any horse trading or perception of horse trading with either the PPP or APNU is bad optics for the AFC."?

My bad. I withdraw the question/statement, and apologize . . .
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Mara:

Any horse trading or perception of horse trading with either the PPP or APNU is bad optics for the AFC.


Time and actions will be quite interesting.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Demerara_Guy:
quote:
Originally posted by Mara:

Any horse trading or perception of horse trading with either the PPP or APNU is bad optics for the AFC.


Time and actions will be quite interesting.


More like wasted time and inaction from these racsals, dolts and imbiciles. Wink
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Spice Girl:
This is dotishness and a circumvention to justify APNU's claim to the Speakership. He argues that the party with the majority seats in the Opposition has the right to the position. Well, duh! How does that supersede the party with the majority seats in Parliament, that being the PPP?


Spice Girl Nagamootoo isnt getting it so you might as well relax. This will go to Ramkarran. APNU sees no difference, both being PPP in their eyes.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
quote:
Originally posted by Spice Girl:
This is dotishness and a circumvention to justify APNU's claim to the Speakership. He argues that the party with the majority seats in the Opposition has the right to the position. Well, duh! How does that supersede the party with the majority seats in Parliament, that being the PPP?


Spice Girl Nagamootoo isnt getting it so you might as well relax. This will go to Ramkarran. APNU sees no difference, both being PPP in their eyes.
If that is how they see it then it is not only stupid but deliberately wasteful as strategy.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
quote:
Originally posted by Spice Girl:
This is dotishness and a circumvention to justify APNU's claim to the Speakership. He argues that the party with the majority seats in the Opposition has the right to the position. Well, duh! How does that supersede the party with the majority seats in Parliament, that being the PPP?


Spice Girl Nagamootoo isnt getting it so you might as well relax. This will go to Ramkarran. APNU sees no difference, both being PPP in their eyes.
If that is how they see it then it is not only stupid but deliberately wasteful as strategy.


Thank goodness all the bigots live in NA.
S
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
quote:
Originally posted by Spice Girl:
This is dotishness and a circumvention to justify APNU's claim to the Speakership. He argues that the party with the majority seats in the Opposition has the right to the position. Well, duh! How does that supersede the party with the majority seats in Parliament, that being the PPP?


Spice Girl Nagamootoo isnt getting it so you might as well relax. This will go to Ramkarran. APNU sees no difference, both being PPP in their eyes.
If that is how they see it then it is not only stupid but deliberately wasteful as strategy.


Why is that. Nagamootoo is negotiating his deal with the PPP and using the AFC to ensure it is sweet. His mouth opened up when he suggested that the PPP be approached to support him, even though they already have their own candidate.

Its clearly not about finding a suitable Speaker agreeable to both APNU and the AFC. Its about ensuring that He Moses Nagamootoo becomes Speaker.

What is sad, but not surprising to those of us who said that PPP refugees were using AFC in their internal battle, taking advantage of that party's ineptness, is that the AFC seems to be nothing but a shell to be used by Nagamootoo. Why are other AFCites tolerating this?
FM
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
quote:
Originally posted by Spice Girl:
This is dotishness and a circumvention to justify APNU's claim to the Speakership. He argues that the party with the majority seats in the Opposition has the right to the position. Well, duh! How does that supersede the party with the majority seats in Parliament, that being the PPP?


Spice Girl Nagamootoo isnt getting it so you might as well relax. This will go to Ramkarran. APNU sees no difference, both being PPP in their eyes.
If that is how they see it then it is not only stupid but deliberately wasteful as strategy.


Why is that. Nagamootoo is negotiating his deal with the PPP and using the AFC to ensure it is sweet. His mouth opened up when he suggested that the PPP be approached to support him, even though they already have their own candidate.

Its clearly not about finding a suitable Speaker agreeable to both APNU and the AFC. Its about ensuring that He Moses Nagamootoo becomes Speaker.

What is sad, but not surprising to those of us who said that PPP refugees were using AFC in their internal battle, taking advantage of that party's ineptness, is that the AFC seems to be nothing but a shell to be used by Nagamootoo. Why are other AFCites tolerating this?
It is in the interest of the PPP to seek the best option as is the APNU and the AFC. Now, use your skills and determine the best pay off for each under the circumstances without injecting our bias, if you can help it.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by albert:
The Speaker should be Ramkarran....


he is going to be acting speaker for day whilst Parliament chose the next speaker.
Ramjattan indiacted that he has nothing against backer and can work with her.

Moses will split the AFC down the middle and they can't afford that.. If he is causing trouble they should get rid of him..
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Ramakant_p:
quote:
Originally posted by albert:
The Speaker should be Ramkarran....


he is going to be acting speaker for day whilst Parliament chose the next speaker.
Ramjattan indiacted that he has nothing against backer and can work with her.

Moses will split the AFC down the middle and they can't afford that.. If he is causing trouble they should get rid of him..
Only in the mental framework of the PPPite and PNCite paradigm can Moses be seen as a "problem".
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
It is in the interest of the PPP to seek the best option as is the APNU and the AFC. Now, use your skills and determine the best pay off for each under the circumstances without injecting our bias, if you can help it.


I will like you to mention ONE country where political parties sacrifice their interests for the supposed good of the whole.

Nagamootoo stayed with the PPP long after he was ostracized by it. It takes a very naive type of person to suggests that his heart still doesnt remain there.

So why should the opposition trust him? Whats so wrong with the AFC that they are so ready to annoint a man who has been with them scarcely for two months.

Want a solution. Well tell the AFC that if they want APNU support they need to find an AFC candidate who is suitable to APNU...or at least make best efforts at it.

Its clear that Nagamootoo made demands and now Rmajattan has to pay up, hence his stubbornness. It is also clear that those AfroGuyanese who didnt trust the direction that the AFC has gone had good reason to. The AFC is now as ethnic a party as any in Guyana.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by caribj:
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
It is in the interest of the PPP to seek the best option as is the APNU and the AFC. Now, use your skills and determine the best pay off for each under the circumstances without injecting our bias, if you can help it.


I will like you to mention ONE country where political parties sacrifice their interests for the supposed good of the whole.

Nagamootoo stayed with the PPP long after he was ostracized by it. It takes a very naive type of person to suggests that his heart still doesnt remain there.

So why should the opposition trust him? Whats so wrong with the AFC that they are so ready to annoint a man who has been with them scarcely for two months.

Want a solution. Well tell the AFC that if they want APNU support they need to find an AFC candidate who is suitable to APNU...or at least make best efforts at it.

Its clear that Nagamootoo made demands and now Rmajattan has to pay up, hence his stubbornness. It is also clear that those AfroGuyanese who didnt trust the direction that the AFC has gone had good reason to. The AFC is now as ethnic a party as any in Guyana.
I do not give a damn what you want to mention or your ingratiating appeals to afro or Indian advantages or disadvantages or trusts and distrusts. Those as well as the duration Naga spent vacillating offering his support are irelevant. The objective is to reform the system away from us having to harp on these impediments perpetuating into the future. The best payoff on choices to attain those ends are all that matters.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
Only in the mental framework of the PPPite and PNCite paradigm can Moses be seen as a "problem".


Of course you operate with the naive assumption that Nagamootoo no longer sees himselfa s aloyal PPPite who only TEMPORARILY left to teach his enemy, Jagdeo, a lesson. But who might well return as soon as it is feasible.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by D2:
[ The best payoff on choices to attain those ends are all that matters.


The issue is clear. The AFC needs to forget about Nagamootoo and find some one from within their ranks who has less controversy around him.

Doggedly sticking to Nagamootoo makes no sense. That is the only crisis involved on this issue.
FM

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