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November 21,2016 Source

SAN FRANCISCO,  (Reuters) – The main U.S. visa program for technology workers could face renewed scrutiny under President-elect Donald Trump and his proposed Attorney General, Senator Jeff Sessions, a long-time critic of the skilled-worker program.

H-1B visas admit 65,000 workers and another 20,000 graduate student workers each year. The tech industry, which has lobbied to expand the program, may now have to fight a rear-guard action to protect it, immigration attorneys and lobbyists said.

Trump sent mixed signals on the campaign trail, sometimes criticizing the visas but other times calling them an important way to retain foreign talent.

Sessions, however, has long sought to curtail the program and introduced legislation last year aiming to make the visas less available to large outsourcing companies such as Infosys. Such firms, by far the largest users of H-1B visas, provide foreign contractors to U.S. companies looking to slash information technology costs.

“Thousands of U.S. workers are being replaced by foreign labor,” Sessions said at a February hearing.

A spokesperson for Sessions did not immediately respond to a request for comment. A Trump transition team spokesperson declined to comment.

The H-1B visa is intended for specialty occupations that typically require a college education. Companies use them in two main ways to hire technology workers.

Tech firms such as Microsoft and Google typically hire highly skilled, well-paid foreign workers that are in short supply. They help many of them secure so-called green cards that allow them to work in the U.S. permanently.

By contrast, firms such as Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services, both based in India, use the visas to deploy lower-paid contractors that critics say rarely end up with green cards.

Infosys did not immediately respond to a request for comment. A Tata spokesman declined to comment.

LABOR LOTTERY

H-1B visas are assigned through a lottery once a year by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. This year, companies filed 236,000 petitions for the 85,000 available visas, a cap set in U.S. law. They are awarded to employers – not employees – and tied to specific positions.

Both Democratic and Republican critics have argued that companies such as Walt Disney Co and Southern California Edison Co, a utility, have used the program to terminate in-house IT employees and replace them with cheaper contractors.

Sessions last year urged then-Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate Southern California Edison’s use of H-1B visas in a letter than was also signed by Democratic Sens. Bernie Sanders, Richard Durbin and Sherrod Brown.

Disney and Edison did not immediately respond to requests for comment but have said previously that they paid foreign contractors comparably with local staffers.

The Justice Department in 2013 settled a visa fraud case with Infosys for $34 million.

Federal investigators accused Infosys of using easier-to-obtain business travel visas to import foreign workers who were required to have H-1B visas. Investigators also alleged that Infosys told foreign workers to lie to U.S. officials about the cities where they would work.

In the settlement, Infosys denied the allegations but agreed to retain a third-party auditor for two years and to provide the government with detailed descriptions of what its visa holders were supposed to be doing in the U.S.

CALLS FOR CHANGE

Several constituencies have called for program reforms, including the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, that industry’s largest professional association. It wants the lottery ditched in favor of a system that would award visas to companies offering the highest-paying jobs, said Russ Harrison, director of government relations.

That could potentially shut out employers looking to mine the program for cheap foreign labor. Sessions included a similar measure in his 2015 bill.

Tech industry groups also want changes. FWD.us – the immigration lobbying group backed by Facebook co-founder Mark Zuckerberg – supports setting higher minimum wages and giving priority to companies that sponsor H-1B workers for green cards.

“We’re going to advocate for expanding the program, but we’re also going to advocate for reforming the program,” FWD.us President Todd Shulte said in an interview.

The current program mainly benefits big companies at the expense of both U.S. and immigrant workers, said Gaurav Mehta, a 32-year-old H-1B holder from New Delhi who works for a cybersecurity firm in San Francisco.

H-1B workers struggle to switch jobs without risking deportation, he said, which allows employers to pay them less.

“The current system is not working for Americans, and it’s not working for immigrants,” he said.

‘AMAZING PEOPLE’

Some Trump allies expect him to keep the program mostly intact, including Shalabh “Shalli” Kumar – an Indian-born Chicago businessman who donated $900,000 to his campaign.

“He has said to us that these are amazing people and it would be crazy to let them go,” Kumar said in an interview.

But Kumar has urged Trump to eliminate country-by-country quotas that create long waits for Indian and Chinese nationals to get green cards.

John Miano, an attorney with the Immigration Reform Law Institute – a conservative group that has been aligned with Trump – also supports prioritizing H-1B applications from companies offering higher pay.

Such a change would hit the outsourcing firms hard. The top 10 recipients of H-1B visas in 2015 were all outsourcing firms, according to government data compiled by the IEEE. Tata Consultancy Services topped the list by securing 8,333 H-1B visas.

Amazon, by contrast, ranked number 12 and was awarded just 826 H-1B visas. Google and Microsoft ranked No. 14 and 15, with Facebook at No. 24 and Apple at No. 34.

Some H-1B visa holders aren’t waiting. Sofie Graham – a marketer at the San Francisco startup BuildZoom.com and a dual Irish and British citizen – secured her H-1B visa last year. Although she could have worked for six years on the visa, she and the company decided to apply for a green card.

“Everywhere I looked, people were saying we should have fewer H-1Bs,” she said. “I just wanted to get a green card as soon as possible.”

Replies sorted oldest to newest

The H1-B visa program is a big scam, I question the validation of the education background that a lot of these people claim they have.  Lots of them are pure dunces and come here and secure jobs that qualified Americans are denied.  Once one of them get a green card, they get 'clannish' and bring their friends along.

 

alena06
Last edited by alena06
alena06 posted:

The H1-B visa program is a big scam, I question the validation of the education background that a lot of these people claim they have.  Lots of them are pure dunces and come here and secure jobs that qualified Americans are denied.  Once one of them get a green card, they get 'clannish' and bring their friends along.

 

You are correct, Alena. But all of that is about to change soon. 

FM
alena06 posted:

The H1-B visa program is a big scam, I question the validation of the education background that a lot of these people claim they have.  Lots of them are pure dunces and come here and secure jobs that qualified Americans are denied.  Once one of them get a green card, they get 'clannish' and bring their friends along.

 

The fact remains that a lot of highly skilled openings go unfilled. A lot of Asian Engineers prefer to return to their home country where the seed capital infrastructure for startups and the environment is more homely - India and China.

Scam? Dunces ?? Denying Americans jobs??? Show the evidence.

Kari

The H1-B visa program recipients are willing to accept lower wages and they force cumulative wages down.  They cannot discontinue the program however, as there is a shortage of technicians in the US.  Additionally, many technicians live overseas and work for US companies so they don't even need visas. 

Bibi Haniffa
Last edited by Bibi Haniffa

@Kari - I have seen entire tech departments with only folks who came here on a H-1 visa with internal squabbles and no chances of anyone else from another ethnic group being hired.  The worst part is they get on conference calls and forget others are on and start ranting in their foreign dialect, my worst pet peeve that pisses me off. 

 

alena06
alena06 posted:

@Kari - I have seen entire tech departments with only folks who came here on a H-1 visa with internal squabbles and no chances of anyone else from another ethnic group being hired.  The worst part is they get on conference calls and forget others are on and start ranting in their foreign dialect, my worst pet peeve that pisses me off. 

 

aap goonga amerikiyon hamen smaart indinas ke saath pratispardha nahin kar sakate
FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:

The H1-B visa program recipients are willing to accept lower wages and they force cumulative wages down.  They cannot discontinue the program however, as there is a shortage of technicians in the US.  Additionally, many technicians live overseas and work for US companies so they don't even need visas. 

You got that right,my brother-in-law an IT Tech works for one of the Insurance Company,went to India earlier this year to check on the Security of the work that is farmed there,they are using "virtual machines" which is more secure,Kari may know about this.

Django
Last edited by Django

This will be interesting to see if Trump follows through. The liberalization of the h-1 visas started way before under senior Bush in 1990(under lobby pressure from tech companies) and saw great acceleration towards the end of junior Bush's tenure to the point where IT professionals were telling their kids not to take up a CS degree but opt for other areas such as business, accounting etc.  I lived through all of this and have seen so many colleagues lose their jobs to Indian H-1 applicants in the name of cost savings.

I believe that too much pressure will be placed on Trump to keep the program going,  with business citing that there is a shortage of American tech workers, when the fact is that Americans were driven out of the market in the first place by this H-1b program, hence the reason for shortage.  

FM
alena06 posted:

@Kari - I have seen entire tech departments with only folks who came here on a H-1 visa with internal squabbles and no chances of anyone else from another ethnic group being hired. 

 

There are whole departments in Guyana where people of the same racial background also exclude others. People were told when the PPP was in power that "Is not Burnham time now, while they run their fingers through their hair".

So I don't know why you complain. Take care these Asian Indians scream that you only say this because you hate any one from India!

FM
Drugb posted:

This will be interesting to see if Trump follows through. The liberalization of the h-1 visas started way before under senior Bush in 1990(under lobby pressure from tech companies) and saw great acceleration towards the end of junior Bush's tenure to the point where IT professionals were telling their kids not to take up a CS degree but opt for other areas such as business, accounting etc.  I lived through all of this and have seen so many colleagues lose their jobs to Indian H-1 applicants in the name of cost savings.

I believe that too much pressure will be placed on Trump to keep the program going,  with business citing that there is a shortage of American tech workers, when the fact is that Americans were driven out of the market in the first place by this H-1b program, hence the reason for shortage.  

They can hire two widget maker for one!....Saw a batch load just landed last week. My neighbor who is a recruiter for silicon valley brought in a few...even a couple long in the teeth and none speaking proper english. Will give India a tooth ache, plus those two technical institutes who survive by being an incubator for these types will see a drop in candidates since india is already a flood with them.

FM

Ii don't know the inner workings of the H1-B1 visa system, but I do work for a global company (Sony) with a lot of consultants - both on-prem and in India and I have a healthy respect for the most part.

Django, VMs (virtual machines) are not inherently safer than other computing devices, but IT security is not just about devices security - it's a whole lot more about risk avoidance and risk mitigation.

Kari
Drugb posted:

This will be interesting to see if Trump follows through. The liberalization of the h-1 visas started way before under senior Bush in 1990(under lobby pressure from tech companies) and saw great acceleration towards the end of junior Bush's tenure to the point where IT professionals were telling their kids not to take up a CS degree but opt for other areas such as business, accounting etc.  I lived through all of this and have seen so many colleagues lose their jobs to Indian H-1 applicants in the name of cost savings.

I believe that too much pressure will be placed on Trump to keep the program going,  with business citing that there is a shortage of American tech workers, when the fact is that Americans were driven out of the market in the first place by this H-1b program, hence the reason for shortage.  

You are 'right on the money'.  Not only Tech fields but in some companies it is expanding to other fields.  I believe companies should prove that they 'TRULY'  cannot fill the position then the the H-1b visa 'thingy' kicks in.  If Trump really wants to keep jobs he should also award incentives to firms who hire Americans. 

alena06
caribny posted:
alena06 posted:

@Kari - I have seen entire tech departments with only folks who came here on a H-1 visa with internal squabbles and no chances of anyone else from another ethnic group being hired. 

 

There are whole departments in Guyana where people of the same racial background also exclude others. People were told when the PPP was in power that "Is not Burnham time now, while they run their fingers through their hair".

So I don't know why you complain. Take care these Asian Indians scream that you only say this because you hate any one from India!

You are off topic, what does this have to do with GY.....duh.

alena06
Kari posted:

Ii don't know the inner workings of the H1-B1 visa system, but I do work for a global company (Sony) with a lot of consultants - both on-prem and in India and I have a healthy respect for the most part.

Django, VMs (virtual machines) are not inherently safer than other computing devices, but IT security is not just about devices security - it's a whole lot more about risk avoidance and risk mitigation.

Thanks for the info,that's your line of work bhai,I did a course in computer repairs and networking in yr 2000,got A+ was going to switch career from [Electronics Repair Tech] to computer tech,change my mind due to making more $$ in my current field ,he mentioned no data is stored on the workstations or servers in India,any way that is a different topic to discuss,I know a little nitty gritty in security .

Django

There needs to be a happier medium.  We must provide the incentives and opportunities for Americans to want to study and earn a decent living.  I was just on a year-long project with a large institution and there were Americans technicals, but most of the technical staff were from India!

FM
Bibi Haniffa posted:

The H1-B visa program recipients are willing to accept lower wages and they force cumulative wages down.  They cannot discontinue the program however, as there is a shortage of technicians in the US.  Additionally, many technicians live overseas and work for US companies so they don't even need visas. 

The H1-B visa is supported by corporate greed and an ambition to secure the cheapest labor. It's about time they get rid of it. Keep the jobs at home. You don't see other countries taking tons of Americans to do their work. Kudos to Donald.

FM
Django posted:
Kari posted:

Ii don't know the inner workings of the H1-B1 visa system, but I do work for a global company (Sony) with a lot of consultants - both on-prem and in India and I have a healthy respect for the most part.

Django, VMs (virtual machines) are not inherently safer than other computing devices, but IT security is not just about devices security - it's a whole lot more about risk avoidance and risk mitigation.

Thanks for the info,that's your line of work bhai,I did a course in computer repairs and networking in yr 2000,got A+ was going to switch career from [Electronics Repair Tech] to computer tech,change my mind due to making more $$ in my current field ,he mentioned no data is stored on the workstations or servers in India,any way that is a different topic to discuss,I know a little nitty gritty in security .

Dude, networking is completely different now. These things only have a shelf life of a year or so. You have to be on the job all the time to keep up.  You are in a niche field. It is difficult to get someone to repair electronics these days or build anything these days.  Simple things like repairing guitar equipment which is old style electronics ( if you want the good stuff) is a bitch. Try advertising that you will fix guitar amps or rewire a guitar and you will be over loaded with people needing help. These amps are expensive and often only require changing a board. You cannot do that these days with computers unless you are a gamer needing a custom job. Most of computers are off the shelf and literally are not worth fixing.

 

FM
Danyael posted:
Django posted:
Kari posted:

Django, VMs (virtual machines) are not inherently safer than other computing devices, but IT security is not just about devices security - it's a whole lot more about risk avoidance and risk mitigation.

Thanks for the info,that's your line of work bhai,I did a course in computer repairs and networking in yr 2000,got A+ was going to switch career from [Electronics Repair Tech] to computer tech,change my mind due to making more $$ in my current field ,he mentioned no data is stored on the workstations or servers in India,any way that is a different topic to discuss,I know a little nitty gritty in security .

Dude, networking is completely different now. These things only have a shelf life of a year or so. You have to be on the job all the time to keep up.  You are in a niche field. It is difficult to get someone to repair electronics these days or build anything these days.  Simple things like repairing guitar equipment which is old style electronics ( if you want the good stuff) is a bitch. Try advertising that you will fix guitar amps or rewire a guitar and you will be over loaded with people needing help. These amps are expensive and often only require changing a board. You cannot do that these days with computers unless you are a gamer needing a custom job. Most of computers are off the shelf and literally are not worth fixing.

 

Danyael,i am still in the Electronics Repair Business,my hands are full with a few companies i provide service for,i am good at repairing amps at component level, i was doing that in the beginning of my career,i used to repair guitars amps and keyboards for a band years ago in the homeland,i also built a few tube and transistor amplifiers.

Django
Last edited by Django
skeldon_man posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:

The H1-B visa program recipients are willing to accept lower wages and they force cumulative wages down.  They cannot discontinue the program however, as there is a shortage of technicians in the US.  Additionally, many technicians live overseas and work for US companies so they don't even need visas. 

The H1-B visa is supported by corporate greed and an ambition to secure the cheapest labor. It's about time they get rid of it. Keep the jobs at home. You don't see other countries taking tons of Americans to do their work. Kudos to Donald.

They cannot totally discontinue, but they have to remove the cost advantage so it will be based on skills.

FM
alena06 posted:
 

You are off topic, what does this have to do with GY.....duh.

Because you are wailing about how others treat you, but when your friends treat others that way you avoid the topic.

FM

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