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  Just a thought!!!
AuthorTopic:   Just a thought!!!
rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
If, as Janet Jagan related, Cheddhi Jagan whispered to her moments before he went into surgery at Walter Reed, "If anything should happen to me, I want you to carry on..." and If, as was also related, once he was out of surgery and thereupon too weak to speak, but he did write notes to his family, how come he did not put this self-same "carry on" request in writing? Assuming that his only thought before he went into surgery was the welfare of his country and his people, and assuming that this overriding nobleness of thought made his last spoken word be to name his successor, it seems to me that he would have at least re-iterated this request in writing.

Did his family preserve his last handwritten notes to them before he passed on? i think it would make interesting reading.

god
Executive Member
posted April 21, 1999 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
CHEDDI SHOULD REST IN PEACE
HE DID ENOUGH FOR ALL GUYANESE

RABID& PNC FANFARE CLUB
it is now time for you all to contribute

Moderator, please chop-up dis thread.
thanks

Nuff
Member
posted April 21, 1999 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nuff   Click Here to Email Nuff     Edit Message
Rabid,

"If anything should happen to me, I want you to carry on..."

This is.... I won't call it lies, ... just let's say .... it's hearsay.

You see when Cheddi came out of surgery, he had a sudden case of amnesia and forgot he ever said anything like you mentioned above. Therefore there was no need to document it.

Don't blame Madam President for her little "white lie", she couldn't help it, she was fully aware the Guyanese people would be suckers and go for her story "hook line and sinker".

rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
And further, if this self-same Cheddhi, who seemed to firmly in control of all his faculties, don't you think it an abberation, given the mans style and organizational ability, that he would not have annointed a successor? Would he have waited until just prior to going under the surgeons knife?
god
Executive Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
hi lameducks
talk about production, not position.

NBthread lacks merit

rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Well Nuff my old schoolmate;
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Guyanese people would fall for this, and let's refer to it euphamistically, "white-lie", but only a certain segment thereof.
god
Executive Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
cheddi said "let the people decide"
when janet went to the polls, the people decided.

School days can be tuff, especially when u can't get the basic teachin in u head.

rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Now did Cheddhi actually say "Let the people decide"? Or did he say "You must carry on".

Let's all be objective in our thinking, even you die-hard PPP/c and the three members of the CCC

god
Executive Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
u must carryon the wishes of the people.

don't u get it?

Vijay Puran
Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vijay Puran   Click Here to Email Vijay Puran     Edit Message
I think Cheddi was telling her to carry on with her personal life.
L.B
Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for L.B     Edit Message
Rabid,

If Cheddie wanted Janet to take over from him , why would he wait until his dying moment to utter those words for only her to hear?.

If he had her in mind to take over he would of set the stage for her long before he had surgery.

The woman is nothing more than AN OPPORTUNISTIC LIAR.!!

CHEDDIE should haunt her for the rest of her life , for lying on the dead!

We are nor bashing the dead Cheddie like you guys are doing with Burnham , we're only exposing her for what she is!
LB

god
Executive Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
JANET WILL WIN THE NEXT ELECTION AS LONG AS THE PNC IS STILL AROUND.
Raj
Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
Mama Janet knows that many Guyanese are suckers to white people. In over 40 years of Cheddi's political career, nobody ever came forward fuh seh dat Cheddi told dem dat Janet must be he successor. NONE. Few believe dat Cheddi ever told she fuh "carry-on". Even deh son Joey seriously doubts what he mother says.

Ambassador Ishmael who visited Cheddi several times in de hospital said dat he was never told dat Janet should "carry-on" as President. Janet has very little credibility. Most people believe she mek up dah story.

BK
Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
Some of you folks are already aware of my position on how I feel about Janet "accession to the throne". I have nothing personal against the old lady, but....

I consider her remarks an insult to the intelligence of the Guyanese people. But then the PPP have always been of the opinion that their supports are devoid of "brain power".

god
Executive Member
posted April 21, 1999 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
raj
u and yur family are de first to vote for janet
unless u are dumb like a pnc bat
L.B
Member
posted April 21, 1999 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for L.B     Edit Message
Raj,

Nah bai them Coolie people in the Country side believe her.

At least you have to give her credit for realising how stupid those PPP supporters are!

LB

[This message has been edited by L.B (edited April 21, 1999).]

PMourant
Member
posted April 21, 1999 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
Those coolie people are really stupid, yet, without them, the Black people will starve and there will be no one to pay their salaries.
Nuff
Member
posted April 22, 1999 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nuff   Click Here to Email Nuff     Edit Message
Why will they starve PM.

Try getting the rice farmers to buy rice from one anodda. All those Indian farmers are growing the same crops, yuh think the Indian people gon buy the same product thewy produce? Yuh stupadee yuh know.

They need Blacks to buy their products otherwise those fat accounts will dwindle. Plus the Indians ain't buying no products, they steady saving dey money fuh flee de country.

Remember the days when Burnham used to only allow you to leave the country with US $30 equivalent? Now dem bannas leaving with millions, they can afford to buy the Yankee dollar at 200:1 if they had to.

Indra
Member
posted April 22, 1999 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Indra     Edit Message
I always like to remind people when they bad mouthing Cheddie & LFSB, that dem 2 bannas are partying in either in hell or heaven laughing at all awee. We down hay fighting about black dis & black dat, Coolie dis & coolie dat.

People we all are living in a foreign land, why can't we put aside the color barrier and live in harmony.

Now, whom am I to preach that, I forgot that me who have black in my family is called a RACIST.

rabid
Member
posted April 22, 1999 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Indra;
The object of this thread was to explore Cheddhi's last days and the question of passing on the mantle of leadership of the PPP/c and by extension the government of the day. Many Guyanese feel that Janet's "carry on" statement was disengenious at best.

However, we have contributors who cannot bear such scrutiny and discussion. Fearing that their carefully cultured positions, even though most of us live like fat cats in NA, would be forever tarnished, such is their worship and idolism of these mortal politicians who care not one whit about them, and even less about the country.

Safraz
Administrator
posted April 22, 1999 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Safraz   Click Here to Email Safraz     Edit Message
Since some here are badly informed on the events Rabid brought up, I thought I should clarify things.

I have the highest respect for the late Dr. Cheddi Jagan and I am sure many of you do too. However, unlike many of you, I also have the highest respect for Mrs. Janet Jagan and will not let you guys demonize her on this issue.

So here are the facts.

President Cheddi Jagan after arriving at the Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington, was told by doctors that he needed life threathening surgery. It was questionable whether he would survive the invasive heart surgery at his age.

On Feb 16 1997 -- the day of the surgery and the last time Dr. Jagan spoke --- he signed a letter which read as follows:

"Dr. Cheddi Jagan, President of the Co-operative Republic of Guyana do hereby appoint Mrs. Janet Jagan to the post of Minister without portfolio in my government. I furthermore desire on this date that Mrs Janet Jagan, be appointed President of the Co-operative Republic of Guyana if my medical condition deteriorates and leads to my death."

The letter was dated 16 Feb, 1997. It was signed by Cheddi Jagan. There were four witnesses who also signed, including medical personnel at the hospital and Dr. Cheddi Jagan Jr.

As you can clearly see, it was Dr. Jagan's wish that Mrs. Jagan suceed him immediately as President. The immense powers the Constitution of Guyana gives to the President allowed for this to be possible.

Despite this fact, Mrs. Jagan stood on the sidelines and allowed Prime Minister Samuel Hinds to succeed Cheddi Jagan. It was very noble of her and it worked out for the best.

Being the most senior member of her party (she was one of the 4 original founders), she was nominated as the PPP/Civic's Presidential candidate. It is well known inside the PPP that she refused the nomination but was later talked into it. Then on December 15, 1997 the people chose Mrs. Jagan as their President --- a 55% landslide if I must remind some.

So although you guys might like seeing Mrs. Jagan as some power hungry monster --- as the facts clearly show, only the complete opposite is true.

By the way Nuff --- Mr. Ralph Ramkarran was the old Chairman of GAC. Mrs. Jagan has nothing to do with the GAC as far as I know.

Safraz.

BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
psssssssst. I didn't know Guyana had a monarchy. It seems like the whole Jagan clan is a bunch of power hungry misfits who want to keep the power in their family. Or is it that Cheddi looked through the corridors of time and found out that there was no one capable of running the country with the integrity he did besides Janet. Thus he passed on the throne to the incompetent RN, under whose presidency the value of the guyana dollar dramatically reduced.
BK
Member
posted April 22, 1999 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
Safraz,

It would be nice if you can post the text of the letter. What a load of crap.

That is why "they" are not too anxious to reform the Constitution -- they can pass the mantle of power to the next of kin!

KITH AND KIN

rabid
Member
posted April 22, 1999 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Safraz;
Nice to see that you are still around. Guess it took an issue like this to pull you out of retirement.

Your post raises more questions than it answers. The first is, if such a document exists, where is it? How come it has not become part of our national archive of documents. Did you see this same document, or were you one of the signatores?

Is the Presidency of Guyana, property to be willed from person to person? if it is, I think it is time that I revoke my citizenship, why even hold elections, just declare anyone with the Jagan last name royalty, and set up a chain of ascension.

So what of Sam Hinds, was he just window dressing?

Safraz, I do not expect you to be impartial, given your political connections. I think that we as a community, deserve more answers than you are capable of or willing to give.

[This message has been edited by rabid (edited April 22, 1999).]

Safraz
Administrator
posted April 22, 1999 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Safraz   Click Here to Email Safraz     Edit Message
Rabid,

The letter is re-printed in the recent book on Dr. Jagan by his daughter. I trust that the letter is kept in the Cheddi Jagan Research Centre building in Georgetown.

The constitution and the political system in Guyana does indeed allow the Presidency to be handed (within the 5 year bracket) from person to person as the ruling party leader sees appropriate. I agree this must be changed.

The reason for overstepping Sam Hinds is simple. The PPP and the Civic had and still have a gentleman's agreement that the PPP will always hold the Presidency and the Civic the Prime Ministership. It is part of the the coalition agreement. The leader of the PPP will always be the President and the leader of the Civic will always be the PM.

For example, if Mrs. Jagan was to die in office, Minister Bharrat Jagdeo would suceed her as President. This is the agreement between the PPP and Civic and is constitutionally possible.

Safraz.

BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Prove it Safraz, prove that it is constitutional for an agreement between two parties to superceed the precedence set by the constitution, which states that upon the death of a president the prime minister is next to follow.
I need quotes m,an, quotes.

If that is the case we are only fooling ourselves that guyana is a democratic republic.

Raj
Member
posted April 22, 1999 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
Safraz
Nice try, but yuh meking de issue more disturbing. Who drafted de letter? Was yuh father, Guyana's Ambassador, one of de witnesses? Who were de other witnesses? Where is de ORIGINAL letter now? Anybody can cut and paste and make a copy of a document and print it in a book. Even if there was a letter, it could not have been legally binding. Janet NEVER made any public statements about this "so-called" letter. We all know dat she mentioned in public several times that Cheddhi TOLD her to "CARRY-ON"

Safraz, yuh digging yuhself a deeper hole.

BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
I knew it was farcical. They are just a bunch of people who are obsessed with power and they will do anything to keep it.
rabid
Member
posted April 22, 1999 03:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Safraz;

According to the following Cheddhi Jagan, and by extension JJ was in direct contravention of the laws of Guyana.

"10. (1) The person who immediately before the appointed day holds the office of Prime Minister under the existing Constitution shall, subject to the provisions of article 97 of the Constitution (relating to the taking of an oath by the President), assume office as President of the Co-operative Republic of Guyana that day as if he had been elected thereto in pursuance of the provisions of the Constitution and shall, unless he sooner dies or resigns or unless he ceases to hold office by virtue of articles 93 and 94 of the Constitution, continue in office until the person elected President in the next following Presidential election held for the purposes of article 91 of the Constitution assumes office. President.
(2) On the assumption of his office pursuant to subsection (1) the first President of Guyana shall cease to be a member of the National Assembly and his seat shall thereby become vacant and may be filled as nearly as practicable in accordance with the provisions of article 70 of the existing Constitution."

.... Below is article 70

" 70. (1) The President may at any time by proclamation prorogued Parliament. Propagation and dissolution of Parliament.
(2) The President may at any time by proclamation dissolve Parliament.
(3) Parliament, unless sooner dissolved, shall continue for five years from the date when the Assembly first meets after any dissolution and shall then stand dissolved.
(4) During any time when the President considers that Guyana is at war Parliament may from time to time extend the period of five years specified in the preceding paragraph by not more than twelve months at a time:
Provided that the life of Parliament shall not be extended under this paragraph by more than five years.
(5) If, after a dissolution and before the holding of an election of members of the Assembly, pursuant to the provisions of article 61, the President considers that owing to the existence of a state of war of a state of emergency in Guyana or any part thereof, it is necessary to recall Parliament, the President shall summon the Parliament that has been dissolved to meet, but the election of members of the Assembly shall proceed and the Parliament that has been recalled shall, if not sooner dissolved, again stand dissolved on the day before the day on which the election is held."

[This message has been edited by rabid (edited April 22, 1999).]

BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Safraz has proved himself to be a liar and a fake phony fraud, that would do anything to keep the bogus ppp govt in power.
rabid
Member
posted April 22, 1999 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Also read article 179

...."179. (1) If the member of the National Assembly whose names appeared as candidates on the same list as that of the President at the last election held pursuant to article 60(2) resolve, upon a motion supported by the votes of a majority of all of them, that the question of the physical or mental capacity of the President to discharge the functions of his office ought to be investigated and the Prime Minister so informs the Chancellor, the Chancellor shall appoint a board consisting of not less than three persons selected by him from among persons who are qualified as medical practitioners under the law of Guyana, and the board shall esquire into the matter and shall make a report to the Chancellor stating the opinion of the board whether or not the President is, by reason of any infirmity of body or mind, incapable of discharging the functions of his office. Removal of President on grounds of incapacity.
(2) If the board reports that the President is incapable of discharging the functions of the office of President, the Chancellor shall certify in writing accordingly and thereupon the President shall cease to hold office.
(3) Where the Prime Minister informs the Chancellor that a resolution has been passed pursuant to paragraph (1) that the question of the physical or mental capacity of the President to discharge the functions of his office should be investigated the President shall, until another person assumes the office of President or the board appointed in pursuance or paragraph (1) reports that the President is not incapable of discharging the functions of his office (whichever is the earlier), cease to perform the functions of his office and those functions shall be performed by –
(a) the Prime Minister; or
(b) during any period when there is no Prime Minister or the Prime Minister is absent from Guyana or is unable, by reason of physical or mental infirmity, to discharge the functions of his office, by such member of the Cabinet, being an elected member of the National assembly, as shall be elected by the members referred to in paragraph (1):
Provided that any person performing the functions of the office of President under this paragraph shall not dissolve Parliament or, save on the advice of the Cabinet, revoke any appointment made by the President.
(4) A motion for the purposes of paragraph (1) may be proposed by any of the members referred to therein at any meeting of such members convened by the Prime Minister."

rabid
Member
posted April 22, 1999 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Safraz;

The evidence is there in black and white. Flawed as this constitution may be, the actions engaged in by the Jagans were in direct violation of the laws of Guyana.

Now is there any wonder why Guyana is in the state that it is in?

BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Rabid my good man, I think Safraz wouldn't be responding to your post in a very long time. Henceforth he should be considered a pariah for making premeditated false claims.
rabid
Member
posted April 22, 1999 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Very True Bonus;
And all the other PPP/c apologists, like the snake man and the Indian diety, and the other moron who constitute the charter members of the CCC.

Now what we need to examine, is what is it in the Guyanese psyche that allow these kinds of actions to go unchallenged. We as a people need to raise the level of our political awareness, regardless fo where on God's green earth we choose to make our home.

Only time will tell.

BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
I think its a combination of unsophistication, hoplessness and complacency. People in Guyana, in my opinion are just contented in getting by.

I will elaborate on this more.

Safraz
Administrator
posted April 22, 1999 10:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Safraz   Click Here to Email Safraz     Edit Message
Rabid,

Nothing illegal was needed for the succession of Janet Jagan immediately after Cheddi Jagan.

Here is how it would have been done.

Remember, the constitution says that the Prime Minister shall succeed the President upon the DEATH or RESIGNATION of the President. The constituiton also gives the President the power to appoint a Prime Minister WITHOUT the approval of Parliament.
These two things are the key.

So President Cheddi Jagan dies. Prime Minister Hinds is sworn in as President. He immediately appoints Janet Jagan as his new Prime Minister (as was done). One day later President Hinds resigns. Prime Minister Janet Jagan succeeds him as President, as is required by the constitution.

So as you can see it could have very well be done constitutionally. Nothing illegal in that process. However, Mrs. Jagan did not see it fit to do so, even though she could have done so at anytime.

I think this loophole in the constitution must be remedied, despite the fact it benefits coalition agreements like the PPP/Civic's.

By the way BONUS - there is no need for personal attacks. Like it or not, I am a Guyanese just like most who wants the best for my country. I happen to support the PPP/Civic. If you don't agree with my views, argue against them --- don't attack me personally as a "liar" and "fraud" for example. I think this forum can be much more productive if we refrain from attacking each other personally.

Rabid, the bottom line is that I think Dr. Jagan was WRONG in making the statement. I think Mrs. Jagan did the proper thing and waited for the elections.

I think the PPP/Civic also did the proper thing by announcing their intentions for Bharat Jagdeo to succeed Mrs. Jagan --- before the elections. Hence the people knew the arrangement before voting.

By the way, the same loophole can be used for Mr. Jagdeo to suceed Mrs. Jagan immediately.

Safraz.

BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 10:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Boy Safraz don't dig yourself deeper into the hole. The more further down you go the more difficult it is to arise out of it.
My advice to you is confess you ignorance and leave with some dignity, instead of trying to justify PPP's depravity.
Raj
Member
posted April 22, 1999 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
Safraz
Me know yuh lil busy studying at school. But just in case yuh overlook meh earlier post. I want yuh fuh respond to meh questions.

(1) Who drafted de letter?
(2) Was yuh father, Guyana's Ambassador, one of de witnesses?
(3) Who were de other witnesses?
(4) Who has de ORIGINAL letter?

Janet NEVER made any public statements about this "so-called" letter. We all know dat she mentioned in public several times that Cheddhi TOLD her to "CARRY-ON"

Safraz, yuh fighting a losing battle trying fuh defend dis old pompous and arogant woman.

Safraz
Administrator
posted April 23, 1999 12:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Safraz   Click Here to Email Safraz     Edit Message
Raj,

My purpose in the original post is to establish the facts. You guys can form whatever opinion you like of Janet Jagan but let it be based on the facts and not heresay.

Its so strange how you all are so willing to believe heresay which agrees with your view
(e.g Mrs. Jagan lied about the letter) yet so quickly reject the actual facts.

To answer your questions:
1)The letter was drafted by Dr. Cheddi Jagan Jr.
2)My father was on the way to Washington from Guyana at the time of the signing of the letter. No, he was not one of the witnesses.
3)The other witnesses were Sgt. Lela A. Mills, Arneshuic D Bilal, and Gary W. Davenport along with Cheddi Jagan Jr.
4)The original letter I would assume is the property of Cheddi Jagan's estate and is either with the family or at the Research Centre in Georgetown.

If you guys want the full story of all the happenings I would suggest getting a copy of Nadira Jagan-Brancier's book on her father. Just the tons of pictures of CBJ makes the book a valuable item.

You guys probably noticed I had a lot of time recently to write. Wish I could write more but I had the time only because I was off from school for two days after a basketball injury.

Safraz.

BONUS
Member
posted April 23, 1999 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
hmmmmmmm a letter having more power than the constitution. Thank God for America.
BK
Member
posted April 23, 1999 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
Safraz,

It was nice of you to drop by, but may I remind you that I don't think the folks here have been basing their comments on "hearsay"; but on what Janet Jagan "did say"!

god
Executive Member
posted April 23, 1999 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
you should thank God for the Hermandston accord which gave the pnc too much leeway.
Raj
Member
posted April 23, 1999 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
Safraz
Have you seen de ORIGINAL letter or did you also hearsay. I would think dat if this "so-called" letter existed, this highly official document would be in the possession of de government in Guyana and not possibly in Janet's daughter cabinet in Canada.

Meh hope yuh get better soon bai.

rabid
Member
posted April 23, 1999 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Safraz;

In your last post you stated;
------
"Here is how it would have been done.

Remember, the constitution says that the Prime Minister shall succeed the President upon the DEATH or RESIGNATION of the President. The constituiton also gives the President the power to appoint a Prime Minister WITHOUT the approval of Parliament.
These two things are the key.

So President Cheddi Jagan dies. Prime Minister Hinds is sworn in as President. He immediately appoints Janet Jagan as his new Prime Minister (as was done). One day later President Hinds resigns. Prime Minister Janet Jagan succeeds him as President, as is required by the constitution.

So as you can see it could have very well be done constitutionally. Nothing illegal in that process....
------

This was not the process that was followed, this wasjust a hypothetical situation presented by you. WHat really happened as pointed out by you in a previous post is;

----
" On Feb 16 1997 -- the day of the surgery and the last time Dr. Jagan spoke --- he signed a letter which read as follows:

"Dr. Cheddi Jagan, President of the Co-operative Republic of Guyana do hereby appoint Mrs. Janet Jagan to the post of Minister without portfolio in my government. I furthermore desire on this date that Mrs Janet Jagan, be appointed President of the Co-operative Republic of Guyana if my medical condition deteriorates and leads to my death."

The letter was dated 16 Feb, 1997. It was signed by Cheddi Jagan. There were four witnesses who also signed, including medical personnel at the hospital and Dr. Cheddi Jagan Jr.

-----

This was a clear attempt at contravening the constitution of Guyana. This document, if it exists, should have been still-born. Shredded and not allowed to see the light of day.

Is this the type of Government that we need in Guyana? One, whose leader will draft phony self-serving documents, and one whose leader would willfully ignore legal documents from the highest court in the land? Yet we have jokers on this forum labelling people as animals. All they are doing is following the example set by the JAGANS, who have incidentally been in power since 1992.

[This message has been edited by rabid (edited April 23, 1999).]

Safraz
Administrator
posted April 23, 1999 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Safraz   Click Here to Email Safraz     Edit Message
Rabid,

Again, read the letter very carefully. It in NO WAY violates the constitution.

"Dr. Cheddi Jagan, President of the Co-operative Republic of Guyana do hereby appoint Mrs. Janet Jagan to the post of Minister without portfolio in my government."

This is totally legal under the constituiton. The President at any time can appoint a Minister WITHOUT approval from any other body.

"I furthermore desire on this date that Mrs Janet Jagan, be appointed President . . ."

Note the strikingly different words. "desire" is the keyword. He did NOT say "I hereby appoint Mrs. Jagan as President". To say he "desires" states a WISH and NOT an order.

This wish could have been legally carried out as I described above through resignations.

Bottom line: Dr. Jagan wished that Mrs. Jagan would succeed him as President, as she rightfully stated. He knew he could not order it and he did no such thing.

By the way, throwing a court order behind ones back and writing a letter of one's political desires are indirect and at best symbolic actions.

On the other hand rigging of elections and leading illegal and unjust street protests which result in violence against innocent citizens are direct violations of the laws of Guyana.

If you want to compare the actions of all our former leaders, the Jagans are by far the most law abiding.


Safraz.

rabid
Member
posted April 23, 1999 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Safraz;

You are beginning to deal in semantics and attempting to confuse me with language. However I am due to be on a flight this afternoon so i must run. Keep checking this thread for my reply. it will either be late tonight or early tomorrow.

BONUS
Member
posted April 23, 1999 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Hi Rabid, what do you think the penalty for treason and gross premeditated violation of the constitution should be?
Safraz feel free to answer the question.
L.B
Member
posted April 23, 1999 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for L.B     Edit Message
Safraz,

So now we are down to the point of comparing Past actions and crimes of different leaders ?

As far as iam concern a crime is a crime, regardles of how big or small it is.

LB

[This message has been edited by L.B (edited April 23, 1999).]

god
Executive Member
posted April 23, 1999 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
LB
massage u brain a little
big and small are 2 different words
BONUS
Member
posted April 23, 1999 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Wow Gud made a valid point.
Cookup
The Enforcer
posted April 23, 1999 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cookup   Click Here to Email Cookup     Edit Message
Well folks Safraz's comments were quite illuminating-he is definitely a spokesman for the regime [or should I say apologist]. Furthermore, he decried the allegations as hearsay but proffered "hearsay upon hearsay" as a defense. Safraz-both hearsay and "hearsay upon hearsay" are inadmissible unless there is a valid exception to the rule.

Now to my observation: If Burnham created this system of capricious governance, why did he not appoint Viola or Van West as his successor? It seems that the PPP might be a little more devious than Burnham.

L.B
Member
posted April 24, 1999 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for L.B     Edit Message
Cookup,

Good point, come to think of it the PPP outdid Burnham and Hoyte at their own game , and they got the nerves to call themselfs Law abiding citizens?

The truth of the matter is that from the very beginning Janet was the one who wanted to be President of Guyana , and when Cheddi died she sees the moment and came up with that Kakamaimie story!!

LB

BONUS
Member
posted April 24, 1999 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
And narrow minded Guyanese of all creed, race and sexual orientation fell for her trickery.
And we have 3 of those ardents fools here, by the nick Gud pm and Bushy.
Vijay Puran
Member
posted April 24, 1999 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vijay Puran   Click Here to Email Vijay Puran     Edit Message
I think we should keep an open mind in these discussions. This is the first time I heard about the letter/proclamation/will Safraz referred to, and I have no reason to disbelieve him. After all, there were some non-Guyanese witnesses to the letter/proclamation/will.

Like it or not, the scenario Safraz pointed out where, >> Prime Minister Hinds is sworn in as President. He immediately appoints Janet Jagan as his new Prime Minister (as was done). One day later President Hinds resigns. Prime Minister Janet Jagan succeeds him as President, as is required by the constitution.<< is ABSOLUTELY LEGAL according to the Guyanese Constitution. In fact, I understand that was very much contemplated during that time, but the candidate the PPP was proposing to become President was Ralph Ramkarran NOT Janet Jagan....Safraz could confirm this if he knows about it.

I do not know why the PPP did not ask Sam Hinds to resign as President. Maybe it figured that it would have been seen as manipulating the Constitution in a dirty fashion. Or maybe it didn't have the guts to ask him resign. Of course the PPP knew that CBJ's letter had no legal basis in the Guyanese Constitution. CBJ's letter was more of a desire or message to the PPP and the Civic.

Now that the PPP has clearly outlined its agreement with the Civic to maintain the Presidency there is no question that it will manipulate the Constitution if need be. THE QUESTION is if this is good for Guyana, or if it is the dirtiest politics on the face of the earth. There is no question in my mind that this is dirty politics played by dirty people. The Civic has been a coalition partner with the PPP for the past 8 or 9 years but YET their leader cannot be seen as fit to lead Guyana. Is that a marriage of convenience or what? The PPP is simply wicked, plain and simple. This is a party which will not agree to amend the Constitution to allow for a coalition government after an election because it feels that the die will be stacked against it. This is a party obsessed with power, the same way the PNC is, and will do anything to keep it that way even if it means perpetuating the racism that plague our country today. There will be another party some day which will break away the Civic component from the PPP leaving the PPP nincompoops flat on their faces. Mark my word.

This is what the PPP's propaganda secretary Robert Persaud had to say about power-sharing in yesterday's SN,

>>A coalition government by way of power sharing through constitutional engineering will fail because the conditions in the society do not exist to ensure its success. In any event, it will be counter-productive to ethnic security, the destruction of ethnic voting patterns and to political stability.<<

I agree that power-sharing should not be dictated by the Constitution. But it is the part where he talks about power-sharing being counter-productive to the DESTRUCTION OF ETHNIC VOTING PATTERNS that caught my eyes. Is this guy in his right mind? What is he talking about?

About that court order stuff I keep hearing about, if I were Janet Jagan, I would have torn it up and had Desree Bernard's ass for it afterwards. It was clear that the court order was politically motivated and that has no bearings in our courts. Therefore, Bernard ass should have been drawn over coals for issuing it. It takes good leadership to do this.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

AuthorTopic:   What does Blacks contribute to Guyana?.
PMourant
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posted April 18, 1999 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
We know that most of the foreign exchange that come into the country are thanks to Indians; we know that the food that's on our breakfast, lunch and dinner tables, are thanks to Indians, we know these same Indians are always terrorized by the Blacks they feed:; Could someone tell Indians what exactly does Blacks contribute to the development of Guyana?.
Nishal
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posted April 18, 1999 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nishal   Click Here to Email Nishal     Edit Message
From what i've experienced and saw, 99% contribute almost nothing in Guyana.

But in my country, All the races work together as one people/family. There isn't much if any, racial problems there compare to Guyana.
I'll say Guyana has he worst of them


Nishal

Racist
Member
posted April 18, 1999 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Racist   Click Here to Email Racist     Edit Message
Hey Donkey Kong:

Do you feed the blacks for free. If all coolie providing the food who buying it, if not blacks. Blacks put money in ahyuh pockets. You coolie jackal. That's how you get money fuh buy de guns and then turn back and shoot we. You and your ungrateful tribe.

[This message has been edited by Racist (edited April 18, 1999).]

BONUS
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posted April 18, 1999 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Racist do yourself a favor, don't sink so low to respond to posts like this, written by jackasses and morons.
PM, GOD and Bushmaster are ignorant individuals that cannot think straight, thus cannot provide anything oof substantial value on this forum.
All they do is spew their bigoted views as facts that they were brainwashed with all their lives.
If you examine these individuals, they are not independent thinkers and they will never be. And one of the disadvantages of this computer age in combination with America's free speech, is that you get imbeciles like these to spread moronic thoughts.
PMourant
Member
posted April 18, 1999 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
You are both side-stepping, why don't you answer the question?, The ass racist is talking about consumption, talk about production, production that brings in much needed foreign exchange, the jack-ass bonus just started shaving, and voila, he saw the light in the art of side-stepping.
God bless him.
BONUS
Member
posted April 18, 1999 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
PM please, for me to engage in a debate with you over this fallacious post is way beneath me, waaaaaaaaaaaaay beneath me, and I am a man of questionable morals. So imagine if your thoughts and beliefs are waaaaaaay beneath me how low are you.
I am going to hate myself for this but here goes.
Please don't assume that only indians produce. I have a buck ( amerindian ) grandfather that has a substantially large coconut farm in the Pomeroon area. And no, PNC didn't give it to him.
I think I should hold my tongue here, because I am discrediting the dignified name of my grandfather in refuting the nonsense that you wrote.
PMourant
Member
posted April 18, 1999 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
Another side-step.
What ethnic group puts enough money in the Treasury, to pay the Public Servants, the Police, the Military etc.?.
We know the answer to that question, Question 2: How much money does Blacks put in the Treasury to run the country?.
IT'S NOT A TRICK QUESTION!!!
eddie
Member
posted April 18, 1999 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eddie     Edit Message
PMourant,

I am not sufficiently equipped intellectually to address the topic in general. However, one of the areas of significant contribution was education back in the 50's thru 80's. It was during this period that Guyana experienced its highest literacy rates and its schools produced scholars.

Since there is no value to everyone planting rice which is later sold for a pittance, blacks and other races formed the majority of teachers back then. Many of the country baboos got their education from black teachers in Georgetown at QC, Saints, etc and later went on to become professionals. It was here blacks earned money to pay for the crops produced by Indians. Who else would you sell to?

I suspect you were not privy to this education I speak of, or you would not have titled your thread 'What DOES blacks contribute to Guyana'. That's not a typo, it's a grammatical error.

And this from a man who professes to be an esteemed educator at one of America's universities. No wonder whites don't want immigrants educating their children. Shame on you.

Eddie

PMourant
Member
posted April 18, 1999 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
I know for a fact that Blacks have made contributions to Guyana. I was hoping someone like you could recall the times when Blacks and for that matter all Guyanese were of a different character, and not as that which is now prevalent in the Caribbean. Very few in the Caribbean trust Guyanese, we have a sordid reputation, which we have earned, and which is quite different than the reputation we had as a people before the PNC.
iT WAS THE pnc WHO TAUGHT US OR FORCED US TO LIE, CHEAT, DECEIVE, so that we could survive that regime. Yes, Blacks made contributions, but that was before the PNC warped the minds of Black people, and yes some Indian people.
Raj
Member
posted April 18, 1999 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
P Moron
Since you know for a fact that Blacks have made contributions to Guyana. Then what's your friggin point??
PMourant
Member
posted April 18, 1999 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
My frigging point raj-ass, is that they were made prior to the PNC.
L.B
Member
posted April 18, 1999 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for L.B     Edit Message
PMS,

Prior to the PNC was before 1962 , and as far as i am concern Guyana enjoyed its greatest prosperity from 1962 to 1980.

So as Raj ask whats is youre frigging point?

LB

eddie
Member
posted April 19, 1999 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eddie     Edit Message
PMourant,

The title of your thread implies that blacks contribute nothing to Guyana. You have even stated that on many occasions, even applying it to black people world wide. For some time now you've been involved in a smear campaign aimed at all black people.

Yet your response to my post is in direct contradiction to all you've said here thus far. The enemy now seems to be the PNC and not black people. Maybe there is hope.

Given your new stance, don't you think it's time we move on and root out the vestiges of the past? I will grant you that the opposition party and its insensitivity to the country's dire straits is a major stumbling block, but all the races are suffering while we argue.

I look forward to your response.

Eddie

krishna
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posted April 19, 1999 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for krishna     Edit Message
PM,
I do understand the notion that you are trying to make a point. with those kinds of comments you put all indiand in a bad light. in my opinion everybody is a racist. i will not list the many contributions of blacks because without a doubt certain individuals will label me pnc supporter, which i am not.
PMourant
Member
posted April 19, 1999 02:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
As an Indian who had family members lose what their parent's sacrificed to own, and to see a PNC Government telling their supporters, 'you want gold chains, the coolie got it, take it from them', could any Indian who are aware of those times that lasted for almost 30 years, forget. So-called decent Blacks allowed themselves to humiliate and steal from hard-working Indians, because Burnham told them it was allright to do so.
The Black man sees the Indian with a gold chain or a gold necknalce, but he never sees the work and sacrifice that was made to own it, and that's true even to this day.
Without Indians there would be no money in the Treasury, and that's a fact, and yet they are the first to be terrorized by those who provide absolutely nothing to the Treasury.
For too long, Blacks have been enjoying a free ride on the backs of Indians.
Here is a fact you probably never knew, from 1985 to 1992 Hoyte provided 180 House Lots to Guyana's poor, mainly Blacks, since 1992 to now 40,000 House Lots have been provided with Blacks getting 55%.
THE PNC DESTROYED GUYANA AND THE MINDS OF BLACK PEOPLE.
iNSTEAD OF STRESSING eDUCATION, THEY TOLD bLACKS TO TAKE WANT THEY WANT FROM THE COOLIES.
Consider today, how and what could Blacks have pride in today's Guyana?.
BLACKS IN GUYANA ARE CONSUMERS, INDIANS ARE THE PRODUCERS, THE IMPORTERS, THE EXPORTERS, BECAUSE OF THE PNC.
Krishna:
I know that Blacks could produce, but it will never happen as long as they make excuses for the PNC.
Sevo
Member
posted April 19, 1999 06:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sevo   Click Here to Email Sevo     Edit Message
The answer to the question is simple. All races contribute to the success and failure of Guyana. I was educated by both blacks and Indians. I can't remember my black teachers giving less attention to me because I was an Indian. I have learnt alot from all races. I should add that I have also been educated by both Hindus and Muslims.To think that one race did not contribute or are not contributing to the well being of a country is not right. The logical conclusion of your thoughts will lead to another Kosovo.
BONUS
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posted April 19, 1999 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
I hope this post will finally prove once and for all the PM is a bigoted, brainwashed and unindependent thinker. If this doesn't prove it I don't know what will.
All this guys posts are like streets that lead to the same place. The place is PNC, BLACKS, PUBLIC SERVANTS AND CHRISTAIN EASTINDIANS, ARE ALL LAZY LOWLIFE FOLKS WITH NO INTELLIGIENCE WHATSOVER.

I would say henceforth to PM, "get a life,"

Roop
Member
posted April 19, 1999 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roop   Click Here to Email Roop     Edit Message
PMourant
You are so obsessed with your racist and bigoted views that most times your points are confusing and incoherent. From your many postings, one can conclude that you believe that:

(1) All blacks support the PNC and they are the troublemakers and non-productive.
(2) All Indians support the PPP and they are the only hardworking and productive people in Guyana

However, you seemed blind to the fact that thousands of Indians continue to support the PNC. Many of them hold high positions within the PNC party. Likewise, thousands of blacks support the PPP. Many of them hold high positions within the Guyana government. Currently, a black person (Sam Hinds) is holding a higher position in the government than an Indian.

I am sure that everyone in Guyana has had good and bad encounters with both Blacks and Indians.However,very few people share your conclusion of blacks.

Sevo and BONUS
I fully agree with you

PMourant
Member
posted April 19, 1999 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
It seems to me that speaking through one side of the mouth by some, speaking through both sides of the mouth by others is the preferred way of avoiding discourse.
A simple question was asked; 'What do Blacks contribute to the Guyanese Treasury?'. Since no one can come up with an answer, the next way to avoid the embarrasment, is to veer the conversation away from the Topic.
Well done Ladies and Germs, you are becoming accomplished in the fine art of hypocrisy, you are on your way to becoming politicians; Congratulations!
eddie
Member
posted April 19, 1999 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eddie     Edit Message
PMourant,

I gave you a frank answer to the topic of your thread 'What do blacks contribute to guyana'. Since you've taken a beating on it and have no response you've decided to change the subject to 'what do blacks contribute to the treasury'.

It is either that you're incapable of expressing yourself properly or that you're deceitful. Don't accuse others of veering the discussion when you're the one doing the tap dancing.

Now make up your mind as to what the hell you're talking about. So far you've gone against your own theories, no wonder you always reverted to childish behavior in the past. I assume that will be next.

Raj
Member
posted April 20, 1999 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
P Moron
Yuh "simple questions" is so foolish it ain't worth anybody's time fuh answer. You have all de answers to dat question.
PMourant
Member
posted April 20, 1999 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PMourant   Click Here to Email PMourant     Edit Message
As an Indian I could say Indians put money in the Treasury by producing enough rice and sugar for exports, I could say fishing bring into the country, foreign currency.
I could say Indian importers pay duty that goes into the coffers, I can even go so far as to say Indian produce the cash-crops that put food on the Guyanese table, and so on...
Now what does the Afro say?.
It doesn't take a village, it takes the whole.

Whenever Eddie and his boyfriend D2 can no longer face the facts, they declare themselves the winner, and just feel good.
We spend so much time debating power-sharing, why don't we spend a teeny bit of time discussing production-sharing.

BONUS
Member
posted April 20, 1999 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
SO PM using you line of deduction, all businesses in Guyana are owned by Indians.
I bet Indians own Humphrey Bakery, Clairans , and my buck grandfather is an Indian in disguise because he owns a coconut farm in Pomeroon.
Why am I bothering writing under this thread.
god
Member
posted April 20, 1999 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
I think the question now is

"what plans do blacks have in uniting and working effectively with the rest of guyanese for the national good?...
.. and not resorting to off-course actions charted for them by the pnc.

BONUS
Member
posted April 20, 1999 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Now gud is saying that all blacks resort to off course action charted out for them by the pnc.
Sam Hinds is black,
Therefore Sam Hinds resorts to off course action charted out for him by the pnc.

Sir how old are you, I hope you watch television alot so as to have a good excuse for being stupid and illogical.( for pm, and gud)

god
Member
posted April 20, 1999 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
Bonus

keep yur distaste to yourself. Because , u can't take it when others jammed u wid theirs.

Now, blacks are not all pnc. But primarily they are. Are u still in abc and can't infer that basic fact.

Go to KFC and ask for a bone..i mean your bonus!!

BONUS
Member
posted April 20, 1999 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
How old are you Sir?
BONUS
Member
posted April 20, 1999 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
"Now, blacks are not all pnc. But primarily they are. Are u still in abc
and can't infer that basic fact."
Using this would it be logical to foolishly assume that all blacks resort to off course actions charted by Hoyte.
Gud you are lacking common sense and reason.

You should have wrote, "the blacks that support the pnc off course actions"

You need to improve you logics. You engage in too much fallacies.

I hope you are not beyond the point of return.

god
Member
posted April 21, 1999 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
I care less over what you want me to say.
BK
Member
posted April 21, 1999 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
The next question that we should ask ourselves --- HOW DID SOME INDIANS HELP SOME BLACKS STEAL, CHEAP ... FROM OTHER INDIANS.

The blacks who are guilty of some of the crimes that PM and others here are accusing them of, were not working alone.

god
Member
posted April 21, 1999 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
bk

did yu or yur relatives help them commit crimes?

BK
Member
posted April 21, 1999 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
Sattie,

You are writing on this forum? Does that answer your question. I can ask you the same question as well!

Why can't you be realistic and truthful, at least to yourself.

eddie
Member
posted April 21, 1999 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eddie     Edit Message
Excellent question by BK.

Sattie why don't you go and ask all those dharma sabhas, the thieving pandits, majis and kali mai puja people that sold their daughters and souls to Burnham for money. Go ask fat man Sase Naraine.

This is how you guys get all the money to boast about, when you sell your mothers down the drain, you greedy CCC.

Another race would always control you because you have no morals when it comes to money.

Paris2
Member
posted April 21, 1999 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paris2     Edit Message
Blacks have no morals when it comes to money. They are too LAZY to go out and earn it and are JEALOUS of the Indos who have it. They don't know how to save; they live for today only, with no thought of tomorrow and how they will survive. Because the Indos have it, the Blacks believe it is their right to get it from them by whatever means necessary -- RAPING, STEALING, MURDERING -- WHATEVER IT TAKES.
All times are PSTnext newest topic | next oldest topic
 
FM
AuthorTopic:   Can you explain this?
god
Member
posted April 21, 1999 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
US and allied force govts are btiching that Saddam is confiding and sympathizing with Slobadan. Now, since Slobandan is killing muslims, how a muslim leader like Saddam take Slobadan side?

Any explantion or is de world goin more beserk?

Nuff
Member
posted April 21, 1999 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nuff   Click Here to Email Nuff     Edit Message
Seems like the US and Allied forces are confused with all these "No fly Zones". They don't know where they are supposed to be patrolling.

You better watch it, soon they gon blame India and Pakistan fuh selling arms to Saddam and Milo, then they gon set up a no fly zone over there in Asia.

bushmaster
Executive Member
posted April 21, 1999 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bushmaster     Edit Message
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS?
Get back to the old files

FORMER Prime Minister of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto has
been convicted of corruption.

The late President Cheddi Jagan had good intentions in
his policy not to open up old wounds by not ordering
the prosecution of officials of the PNC regime for
crimes against Guyanese. I understand he didn't want
recrimination and wanted the society to move on.

But what did he get for his magnanimity?

The PNC now turns around and points fingers at his
people for corruption and incredibly enough, for vote
cheating!

I have been listening to the debates in Parliament and
the radio discussion on constitutional reform and
agree with Information Minister, Mr. Moses Nagamootoo
for reminding us of the past PNC crimes.

I say, get back to the old files.

Let us examine the rigged elections of 1968, 1973,
1980 and 1985, and the rigged referendum of 1978. Let
us probe who were responsible for the murder of Dr.
Walter Rodney, Minister Vincent Teekah, and the two
PPP activists killed on Election Day (1973) on the
Corentyne.

And while I am on that, let us examine who was
responsible for the waste of hundreds of millions on
schemes such as the Upper Mazaruni hydro project, the
Crabwood Creek-Orealla road, the Kato potato project
and Global Agri.

We must look back like they are doing in Pakistan.

Raj
Member
posted April 21, 1999 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
Bushman
Who will examine dem projects and get back to de old files? Not mama Janet. She frighten Hoyte bad. Remember dat she lack de guts to stand up to anybody.
rabid
Member
posted April 22, 1999 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Bushmaster;
A direct question:
Did you write that last posting that was attributed to you?
bushmaster
Executive Member
posted April 22, 1999 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bushmaster     Edit Message
I helped to put it together.
BK
Member
posted April 22, 1999 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
Bushman

I also listened to the debate speech, Moses did made a lot of sense in his address.

Now why you had to lie in the end.

Raj

- maybe we could nominate the Bushman to undertake the project.

rabid
Member
posted April 22, 1999 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
People take a look at this. I think we have a plagiarist in our midst. Indra leh we mek that call....some people have no morals nor scruples, they act just like snakes, and call themselves educated.

Ignoring past crimes was a mistake
Dear Sir,

Stabroek News 16-4-99 refers, `Bhutto convicted of corruption'. The late president Cheddi Jagan had good intentions in his policy not to open up old wounds by not ordering the prosecution of officials of the PNC regime for crimes against Guyanese. I understand he didn't want recrimination, and wanted the society to move on.

But what has he got for his magnanimity? The PNC now turns around and points fingers at his people for corruption and incredibly enough, for vote cheating! I have been listening to the debates in parliament and the radio discussion on constitutional reform and agree with minister Nagamootoo for reminding us of the past PNC crimes.

I say, get back to the old files. Let us examine the rigged elections of 1968, 1973, 1980 and 1985, and the rigged referendum of 1978. Let us probe who were responsible for the murder of Dr Walter Rodney, minister Vincent Teekah and the two PPP activists killed on election day (1973) on the Corentyne.

And while I am on that, let us examine who was responsible for the waste of hundreds of millions on schemes such as the Upper Mazaruni Hydro Project, the Crabwood creek - Orealla road, the Kato Potato Project, Global Agri and others.

We must look back like they are doing in Pakistan.

Yours faithfully
David de Groot

bushmaster
Executive Member
posted April 22, 1999 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bushmaster     Edit Message
I know that rabid.
I said I helped to put it together.
Direct and Indirect.
I did not put that I wrote it and I deliberately left out the author .
Cut and Paste can do wonders.
So, Now Explain It.
bushmaster
Executive Member
posted April 22, 1999 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bushmaster     Edit Message
BK,
That will be an easy Job. But before I do, I want a force of 2000 men well trained and armed with apache helicopters.
Because at the end of the investigations and trials a lot of PNC people will go to Jail or tried for Murder and even Hanged.
Any more Job for me BK.

How about the re-establishment of Leonora estate with our money?

BK
Member
posted April 22, 1999 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
Bushman,

You don't 2,000 men to do the job. I think all you would need is just a couple of mice.

The re-establishment of Leonora estate is an excellent idea, but I don't have that kind of funds. You will have to use your own money to undertake this project, but I will provide all the moral support you need to get the job done.

All times are PST 

 

 

 

FM
AuthorTopic:   Black Pudding factory opens
eddie
Member
posted April 22, 1999 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eddie     Edit Message
A grand celebration was held in Buxton today to mark the opening of the new Black Pudding Factory. Pres JJ was on hand to cut the ribbon at the opening ceremony.

However, there was some dissention in the populace. Popular rice farmer Bushy Gobardhan, the sole supplier of rice to the factory was not happy. ‘I toiled and produced a ton of rice for this factory...’, Bushy stated, ‘...only to receive $280 US. That ton will last them a over a year, how am I supposed to live on $280 US for a year?’

Bushy went on to say ‘It’s a PNC conspiracy I tell you, all you AH in the US, SOB’s, bastards’. The aging rice farmer was so peeved that he later referred to himself as Singh and not Bushy Gobardhan. The product will sell for $7 US per pound overseas, meaning in that only 40 sales the cost of rice will be recovered for the year.

In related news, the entire Hariprasad family from Enterprise showed up to apply for work. Jubilant at their hiring, a female member remarked ‘abee nah gat fuh wait fuh Sattie play god now fuh send we money from Bastan. Black puddin ah pay good. Abee nah mind de cow blood’.

A male Hariprasad family member was dismissed for drinking on the job. He practiced Kali Mai Puja and the cow blood was too much to resist.

Equal opportunity racism.

bushmaster
Executive Member
posted April 22, 1999 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bushmaster     Edit Message
Eddie,
I produced many tons of rice and made 100% profit.
What you did not know, is that I DONATED THIS ton of RICE to Phantom Buxton Black-Pudding Factory?
BK
Member
posted April 22, 1999 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
eddie,

Nice -- That is very original I got to give it to you.

Look like I got to start eat black pudding now.

Cookup
The Enforcer
posted April 22, 1999 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cookup   Click Here to Email Cookup     Edit Message
Y'all see how much fun we can get if we nah tek dis ting seriously!!!
BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
LOL@EDDIE
BK
Member
posted April 22, 1999 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
Cookie,

But still when I made the remark about "having fun" -- our friends wanted to eat my head off!

Cookup
The Enforcer
posted April 22, 1999 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cookup   Click Here to Email Cookup     Edit Message
BK,
The thought has crossed my mind 69 times-having fun, eat and head an' blackpuddin'. A doan know but ah free associating.
BK
Member
posted April 22, 1999 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BK   Click Here to Email BK     Edit Message
Oh Cookie,

You bad fuh soooo -- too much freeness nah good fuh you, you know!

Indra
Member
posted April 22, 1999 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Indra     Edit Message
eddie,

I am ROTFLOL.

BONUS
Member
posted April 22, 1999 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
Eddie I would like to know if any of Haripasad's gal picknee fell in love with a "black male incompetent supervisor"at the factory?
Indra
Member
posted April 22, 1999 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Indra     Edit Message
Bonus,

Yuh want dat man to commit suicide?

eddie give us the scope.

eddie
Member
posted April 22, 1999 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eddie     Edit Message
Sources say it was quite an eventful day at the factory.

Bushy Gobardhan is now insisting that he donated the rice although the Auditor General produced evidence of a payment. There is also a newsclip of the interview where Bushy publicly stated he received $280 US. Bushy Gobardhan issued a statement which said 'Liars, thieves, scoundrels, all you SOB's. The tape was tampered with by Vieria's Ch. 28. I never said that - it's a conspiracy'. He then yelled incoherently about tomahawks.

In an effort to resolve matters, the govt is bringing in an experienced management team of degreed individuals. Former Sanata Textile man Vijay Puran will now head the black pudding operation. When advised of this, Bushy Gobardhan demanded his donated rice back stating 'Puran is a non productive Kitty man. He ruined Sanata and Vallone's campaign and he will do it here too. AH, all AH'.

To mark Daughters to Work Day, the factory welcomed the Hariprasad's oldest daughter from Boston - Sattie, who left his job for 1 day as GNI forum nuisance. Sattie left hurriedly however and was visibly shaken at the sight of huge pieces of black cylindrically shaped material.

[This message has been edited by eddie (edited April 22, 1999).]

Raj
Member
posted April 22, 1999 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
Eddie bai, yuh very creative. Maybe yuh should write some Guyanese short stories.
BONUS
Member
posted April 23, 1999 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BONUS   Click Here to Email BONUS     Edit Message
HEHEHEHEHEEHEHH LOL@EDDIE
god
Member
posted April 23, 1999 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
Eddee, the attention seeking dunce:

Hypocrites are not winners.

When this kind of journalism smells like the pig sty, expect the pig babies to follow.
Ample evidence above.

Now, as foolish as eddie is, he did not know that he brought out 2 key issues:
1. production
2. working for wages, and not becoming a member of the KNC

Fortunately, there are many families that have the will to succeed in other ventures, apart from the black pudding industry that I initially proposed. Since you need the dark thing to stuff into your families openings, then proceed at god's will.

FM
AuthorTopic:   Inflation and the IMF
rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message

IMF projects recession in Latin America and Caribbean
Washington, Apr 20 --(EFE)-- Economic activity in Latin America and the Caribbean will slow 0.5 percent in 1999 but will rebound early in 2000, Michael Mussa, chief economist for the International Monetary Fund (IMF), said Tuesday.

In its annual ``World Economic Outlook'' report, the IMF projected the Latin American and Caribbean economies will recoup and post an annual 3.5 percent economic growth rate for the year 2000.

In 1998, the region's economies grew at an annual rate of 2.3 percent, noticeably slower than the 5.2 percent rate posted in 1997.

Brazil, which represents two-thirds of the region's gross domestic product (GDP), rallied in March and seems to be pulling out of the recession, although the region remains at ``considerable risk of a serious contraction,'' according to the IMF.

Since Brazil represents one-third of the GDP of developing countries in the western hemisphere, a recession in Brazil, exacerbated by the devaluation of the real, would significantly impact the region.

The IMF projects Brazil, the largest economy in Latin America, will post a 3.8 percent drop in its GDP in 1999. It had previously projected a drop of only 1 percent.

In 1998, Brazil posted a slight 0.2 percent economic growth rate, while in 1997, the Brazilian economy grew 3.2 percent.

Mexico will post an economic growth rate of 2 percent, far lower than the 4.2 and 7.0 percent rates it posted in 1998 and 1997, respectively, according to the IMF.

Argentina, following increases of 4.2 percent in 1998 and 8.6 percent in 1997, will see its economy shrink by 1.5 percent in 1999, the IMF projected.

For Venezuela, an important economy in the region, the IMF forecasts a 3.6 percent drop in GDP. Venezuela posted a 0.4 percent drop in 1998 following a 5.9 percent increase in 1997.

The IMF report projected the Chilean economy will grow 2 percent after posting a 3.3 percent growth rate in 1998.

The region's surprise is Peru, whose economy is expected to grow at an annual rate of 4.5 percent in 1999 after increasing just 1.5 percent in 1998.

The IMF also projects inflation of 14.6 percent for Latin America and the Caribbean in 1999 following an increase of 10.5 percent in consumer prices in 1998 and of 13.9 percent in 1997.

However, by 2000, inflation is expected to drop to 9.9 percent. EFE

rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Note the projected inflation of 14.6% mooted by the IMF versus the 3% raise for public servants in Guyana, Then compare this against the budgetary numbers. Hmmmm.
rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
How come Bharrat Jagdeo has not been called on to resign? His performance as Finance minister can only be described as putrid, at best. Wait till the Guyanese public get a "jumbie lash" from that 2 by 4 called inflation....there'll be hell to pay.

[This message has been edited by rabid (edited April 21, 1999).]

god
Member
posted April 21, 1999 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for god     Edit Message
govt does not "mind" people.
in underdeveloped world, no salary increase can match all inflation. If thats the case, then there is nothing like inflation in an economy. It means that the problem is resolved. Only few govts or companies can do such and again, not for everyone in a country.

There are companies in the USa that are paying far less than the 3% sal incr per year.

rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
In the last budget they stated inflation would be 5.5%.
rabid
Member
posted April 21, 1999 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rabid   Click Here to Email rabid     Edit Message
Looks like Asgar Ally has the same idea

Asgar Ally predicts negative growth
By Gitanjali Singh

There is nothing in the 1999 budget on which citizens can hang their hats to sustain a 1.8% growth in the economy, says former PPP/Civic Minister of Finance, Asgar Ally.

Ally, at a media briefing yesterday, said that his analysis points more to negative or zero growth in the economy this year.

Noting the hopes for the sugar and rice sectors showing strong levels of growth, Ally said while production is improving, the rice sector is now faced with problems of marketing.

As to the inflation target of 5.5% this year, he said this is grossly underestimated and projects that inflation will be more in the vicinity of 12% to 15% this year.

He said for the first two months of 1999, inflation is running in excess of two percent and when the devalued Guyana dollar is taken into account as well as its impact on the cost of living, a 12% inflation rate is being looked at. Because of the aligning of customs rate to the prevailing exchange rate and the increase in fuel prices, it will be further pushed up, he added. And given the trend of declining revenue over the past years, Ally is not optimistic that revenue collection will increase this year, given the heavy losses suffered by many businesses and the resultant impact on corporation and other taxes.....

For the rest of this article, read the Stabroek news.

 

[This message has been edited by rabid (edited April 21, 1999).]

Raj
Member
posted April 21, 1999 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raj   Click Here to Email Raj     Edit Message
I strongly agree with Asgar. There will be negative growth dis year.

By de way
A 3% increase of the weekly minimum wage can't even buy an extra loaf of bread

FM
NamePost
D O V E posted 10-27-98 01:25 PM ET (US)   D O V E 's Profile  D O V E 's Email      
Guys, I usually just view the political happenings in here and rarely post responses but on I have a little topic that might just interest enough of you to spark a speedy solution regarding this issue. Please read the following attached letter I was asked to help out with. (LB, LOL and Thanks).

-------------------------------------

I'm posting this for those of you who can't or don't access the other forum some of us frequent daily. I was asked to help out with this a few weeks ago but I've been so busy I haven't had the time to post it for the family's assistance. We all know how hard and expensive it is to acquire internet access in Guyana but if some have their way it'll be more so for those who do have access now and who will in the future. At the cost our fellow countrymen pay for the service; after reading the attached letter I leave it up to you to help or not. REAZ you should have more info. on this being at home in Guyana, let's see how far we can go to get the right decisions made for those who need the access to use the internet properly and appropriately. See the attachment pasted below for verification.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Harold E. Hopkinson <hopkins@guyana.net.gy>
To: Harold E. Hopkinson <hopkins@guyana.net.gy>
Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:08 AM
Subject: Firewall help

I have definitive word that the Government wants to remove the fire wall, but they are awaiting a flood of letters.

So get your friends to send letters to the Editor of the News papers. A lot of Government Ministers are in agreement with it's removal but they need that little tidal wave nudge to go over the edge.

 

Please send letters those emails to the following addresses S.Khan, Editor in Chief GNNL khan@guyana.net.gy Anand Persaud Editor stabroeknews@stabroeknews.com

 

Here is a copy of the last one I sent so you can get the idea Harold Last year I had written to the you complaining about the Prime Minister / Government invading the privacy of my humble abode, with the censorship of my Internet viewing habits.

 

From a survey taken from over one hundred and fifty of my Cyber friends it seems that the majority of the Internet viewing public is now feeling this imposition in frustration, time and money. Some insecure, scared, self appointed, in the closet, Savior of the World had replied then saying


“censorship was welcome” well, that is for his/her infinitesimal secluded world, I had not spared the time to reply to that pitiful excuse of an uniformed person.

Here is how the cookie crumbles, b

efore the installation of the firewall, which consists of data dissemination, word combination filtering devices by GT&T on the instructions of the Government.

 

It was about 3,500 bytes per second x 60 seconds = 210,000 bytes per minute. 210,000 bytes per minute x 60 minutes = 12.6 Million Bytes for an hour’s download.

 

This is in it’s own right is slow by world standards and barely livable.

 

Now with GT & Ts multitude of data filters, the act of downloading has become a morass of trouble! It now takes 14 hours to down load the same above-mentioned file of 12.6 MB. From one to fourteen is ridiculous, in this modern time when speed is the essence.

 

These numerous firewalls have caused all computers online to experience the “broken pipe syndrome”. This is due to the FTP sending the digital information to your computer, interprets the slow return ping as a signal that the recipient has stopped receiving the signal and then disconnects  your computer due to a buffer under run.

 

Imagine starting to download a program at 7 p.m. and when you awake at 7am, expecting to see a finished file downloaded file, you see ‘broken pipe”. The amount of expletives
hurled at the powers that be, is enough to make all the fertile women in Guyana pregnant. With one having to pay by the minute, at one of the ISP’s, time will always translate to money. From one to fourteen is real inflation.

 

The present Administration says “in Guyana we now have freedom of expression” but this absurd, primitive, retrograde Gestapo type “solution” has left us being deemed by world standards “as adults not being able to take care of our own business at home” The Minister of Information the Honorable Moses Nagamootoo holds the keys to my computer on the Information Autobahn and should have the guts to let us adults drive freely. Guyanese


adults are responsible enough to know when to drive and how to keep the keys from the Kids. What the uniformed do not know is that Net Nanny is a lot more secure and almost fool proof in relation to the existing firewall.

 

This only happens in Third World countries that are uniformed. Come on Mr. Minister come out into the light and let us Cyber – users, utilize our precious time on the information super highway more efficiently.

 

Some simpleton had put forwarded the argument that there is racism, sex,


drugs, hate speech, gambling, extreme, cult on the Internet! For the information and guidance of all you proverbial ostriches, those Topics and Acts were here since time immemorial,â€Ķ. before the Internet!

 

Trying to impose prohibition on Internet sex will always make some persons rich. All one has to do is ask a friend out of Guyana, to send you X-rated attachments or you can go to any Bookstore or Gas Station and purchase a Playboy or Hustler magazine. As for the making of bombs you would not believe it but if you check, the foremost knowledge base in the World the Encyclopedia Britannica 98”, it is there in glorious detail.

 

To crown it all it is stated in the “Government’s Acceptable Use Policy” that logs are maintained to keep track of when, where and from what networked computer Internet access has been allowed or deniedRemember being scared of the dark is no excuse for not going to sleep that is called insomnia! In this modern world there exists two types of pedestrians the quick and the dead, for us in Guyana, we are becoming “the dead”, slowly climbing the ladder of success “WRONG by WRONG!”

 

 

Harold E. Hopkinson and lots Cyber friends
Computer and Security Consultant

 

god posted 10-27-98 01:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
sounds like cyber -access/facilities alone will fix the country's problems, created by the waste side pnc, and became totally umanageable
leslie posted 10-27-98 02:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for leslie   Email leslie   
Hari

As usual you do not see an injustice here. This government cannot hide or hide access to information from the people. The PPP/C complained all the time about censorship and oppression when they were out of power. This is both. It was wrong then and it is wrong now.

They are denying access to the world, something every nation on the planet except for a few, embrace as a new horizon.

It is another example of their nearsightedness...not to mention yours

god posted 10-27-98 02:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
les, yu can pull plenty hag hair outta yu eyes and you guh still na see dat the wreckage is beyond repair. Why yu so disgusting?
leslie posted 10-27-98 02:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for leslie   Email leslie   
Hari

If its beyond repair why do you worry? I on the other hand think not..I complain because I know it can be a better place.

Nufrespect posted 10-27-98 02:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Nufrespect   Email Nufrespect   

They are scared of giving the people information to the outside world, and when they make it available it cost an arm and a leg.

Then they give you you a baud rate that makes a Yugo look like a Ferrari racecar. This way people have to stay on line longer and rack up more bills. Do you know computers are the one commodity that aren't taxable when brought into the country? This is apparently how they get their taxable income back.

god, have you been to the UG. There are no books there. How are people expected to do research. The internet makes this possible, but to the clowns in office this is an uneccessary evil, and it is a way of educating the man on the street. This would go against the grain. Let's not educate these people so we sound smart and they vote us in again.

You ever heard the saying in NY?

New Yorkers don't vote you in ... they only vote you out.

The PPP/C's days are limited.

 

god posted 10-27-98 03:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
Gy is special. The cost of lost info or lost opportunity when pnc stole day and night cannot be mended now. Pushing a cable into everyone's backside in GY is like buggering dem twice without an apology!
What about dat for free speech?
D O V E posted 10-27-98 04:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for D O V E   Email D O V E   
The debate is great but the objective of this topic is to assist in finding a solution to the necessary or unecessary evil that is called governmental restrictions.

God,

It makes no sense to spout what you call comments if you don't seen the need for resolutions or any party in power. Not being able to get past 'OUR PAST' is one of the reasons that repitition is a main artery we continue to live by. Your point of view is great for discussion here but isn't it a shame that we can't get input from those in Guyana who are facing the stringent methods just to gain access to this venue?

Nufrespect,

Kudos on the UG comment I have a cousin just assigned another subject as a lecturer, guess what I'm sending her the material which she has to research in order to enter the classroom as an abled and competent professional charged with teaching at UG. The internet access would certainly increase her opportunity of being familiar and comfortable with topics she's charged to lecture in.

Leslie,

You're right if we don't complain, we don't get change. If we did venture in here, we'd never have established the growth of understanding and rapport we have as fellow humans and Guyanese on the internet.

...so who's going to send a letter in additon to disscussion???

leslie posted 10-27-98 04:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for leslie   Email leslie   
Hari

It is the expected answer from you. The moral thing to do when even your friend is doing wrong is to tell him. When it is your country's govt., it is an obligation. If you can't see something as obvious as this what will you see....well I know the PNC!!!

BK posted 10-27-98 05:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for BK   Email BK   
Dove,

It is a pity that this site is maintained by the our Ambassador's son to USA, or else those of us here could, as a group (with the exception of a few people -- so its seems), sign a petition in favour of the Guyanese people's right to "freedom of the press and information".


Nuff,

The PPP/C has adopted the education policy of the PNC government, that is the total neglect and hence further erosion of the school system. (They have brand new buildings, but no trained teachers or teaching materials).

Once the people are ignorant of their rights and are unable to question the policies and practices of the PPP/C, they would eventually come to believe that they have carte blanche.

god posted 10-28-98 09:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
BK is misleading when she says there is no trained teachers. This is a focus once more and has been on going since the ppp govt assumed office. If there is not enough trained teachers, then that is a different story.

Should the ppp govt import teachers or take uneducated folks off the streets, which the pnc left and make them into teachers? Which one do you guys prefer?

Nufrespect posted 10-28-98 11:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for Nufrespect   Email Nufrespect   

god,

Like the rapp song says.....

You betta check yuhself before yuh wreck yuhself.

Answer these two questions for me please.

1. When last were you home?

2. Did you visit any educational facilities? Ie., University or Secondary school.

leslie posted 10-28-98 11:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for leslie   Email leslie   
Nuff

According to Hari he went home 3 mths ago. When he came back he had the board all messed up with the posting about the misery, filth and bad manners at home. I have to re read his postings around that time to check out if “no teachers” was on his list of things absent or bad in Guyana.

D O V E posted 10-28-98 01:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for D O V E   Email D O V E   
BK,

I know just what you mean, it seems once again the situation is one of 'who you know and who knows you'

Leslie,

I thought I was alone in your observations but I'm glad that you and Nuf have made points that are quite valid and appropriate.

God,

Uneducated or not when will the everyday Guyanese be able to join a world that has and continues to leave them far behind in basic rights and capabilities.

god posted 10-28-98 01:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
Dovey,
Basic rights are now prevalent in GY. The old pnc is shattering the basic rights by not allowing students and teachers to traverse the city to and from their schools.

I uphold learning and scientific advancement but not when priorities such as freedom of movement are underhandingly been jeopardized by a socalled "learned" opposition leader.

D O V E posted 10-29-98 09:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for D O V E   Email D O V E   
God,

Point well taken but how and when will the unlearned take up their own proverbial crosses and bear the burden of self progress... if complacency continue to dictate the status of many then in trying to help out in this aspect is a moot point.... However, I personally would like to bypass all this with the futurist vision of what's to come in the form of the next generation.

god posted 10-29-98 09:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
When GY was being battered, we moved out. No one expected that in the future there was going to be an abundance of talented Gyese abroad.

The scenario is continuing in GY where even if the govt of the day is entrenched in superb educational programs , resulting in brilliant individuals, the fear exists that the pnc or any future govt will "gobble it all up and spill the rich milk". People are not yet willing to "trust" the(ir) future in GY. Presently, they are not declining any opportunity to go abroad.

Educating via technology is more than welcome. Censorship, if any, should be extremely minimal. Every country/ govt has some form of censorship. However, the outcomes and long term gains are still my greatest concerns, given the local political umbrella.

Nufrespect posted 10-29-98 10:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Nufrespect   Email Nufrespect   

god,

A few years back I recall reading a statement by a fellow Guyanese. He said...

Guyana is braindead .... anyone with any sense has left the country.

Expatriots are not readily welcomed in Guyana. Those at home feel overlooked when the expatriots return and take the jobs that they were in line for.

Do you see any input on these pages coming from Guyanese residing in Guyana? The fact that it would cost them an arm and a leg to respond to some of these idiotic topics makes it quite unlikely they would want to socialise with some overseas egotistical goons.

Also ... the fact that the authors on these threads only write during the work day, really says a lot about us. We can solve Guyana's problems while getting paid on the job in the US.

Let's face the facts, we're not solving any problems here, we're just liming in a hi-tech manner, and gaffing about Guyana's state. It's just like being back home, all we are missing is the bottle of XM being passed around, even though when I read some of these responses I do believe some of us are drinking as we post.

 

BK posted 10-29-98 11:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for BK   Email BK   
Nuff,

Precisely. In others words we are busing a lime in cyber "space". But it seems that some of the "hard-lined politicians" on this forum cannot tell the difference.

D O V E posted 10-29-98 12:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for D O V E   Email D O V E   
Nuff,

Ouch man that one stings.... but I can't totally disagree, it's a slap in the face to go home to Gy and have scorn thrown in your face with the words of 'foreigner' in the house... whu yuh can spare meh, eh???'

FM
Last edited by Former Member
bushmaster posted 10-26-98 02:36 PM ET (US)   bushmaster 's Profile  bushmaster 's Email      

with GOD.
Hoyte and the PNC cannot say the same.
Nufrespect posted 10-26-98 02:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for Nufrespect   Email Nufrespect   

Bushmaster, lay off that Chicken noodle soup.

leslie posted 10-26-98 02:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for leslie   Email leslie   
I guess even a snake need a god!!
bushmaster posted 10-26-98 03:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Ravi Dev walks with some of the PEOPLE.

Hoyte and the PNC walk with the Devil.

LB posted 10-26-98 03:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for LB   Email LB   
Bushmaster,

Like yuh like licks bai , because thats all Ravi Dev is going to give you?

bushmaster posted 10-26-98 04:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Ravi Dev is the defender of the people of Regent St.
Against the wrath of Hoyte and the PNC devils.
He walks in tthe pathof righteousness..
eddie posted 10-26-98 04:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for eddie   Email eddie   
Bushy, now you're confusing me.

You're using all types of Christian biblical phrases and truths to describe this man, yet he is the opposite of what Christianity teaches.

 

Leslie claims some familiarity with GIFT's beliefs and said they are interested in an Indian/Hindu state. I have no reason to doubt him.

 

Perhaps you should depict Ravi according to the Hindu phrases he's familiar with and leave Christianity out of it.

Eddie

god posted 10-26-98 04:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
ravi is up to match hoyte
with his jandee bamboo
he will kick the thugs
and opened up the city
..and GY will grow happy

tek no chance
stop being a pretty chiken
and scratch with your nails
turn heads and move hearts
and let pnc suck arse


eddie posted 10-26-98 04:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for eddie   Email eddie   
From the looks of the above poem, not only did Sattie overeat as usual, but he had some of the liquid lunch too.

Sattie, even with the dangers BK mentioned, you should try that chicken diet. You badly need some brain cells...live ones.

Eddie

bushmaster posted 10-26-98 04:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Ravi Dev writes the truth as it happened.

Hoyte and the PNC write lies as it never happened.

eddie posted 10-26-98 04:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for eddie   Email eddie   
...be that as it may, then equate him to some Hindu deity, don't borrow from the Christian religion to glorify this man.

He is supposedly only interested in Hinduism and does not reflect Christian values. Don't call him a saint. Hindus have none of those.

Eddie

god posted 10-26-98 04:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
eddie, find a taste for good food...leave BKs fowl pen, she probably cleaning the fowl sh??
now!
god posted 10-26-98 04:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
eddie, you becoming a born-again; good fu yu!!
bushmaster posted 10-26-98 04:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Ravi Dev is a Humanitarian and helps the people. Ravi Dev is a good social worker and works for the benifits of the poor and have not.

Hoyte and the PNC are Dictators, Thieves, and Bullies. They live of the workings of the people. They steal from the people.

eddie posted 10-26-98 04:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for eddie   Email eddie   
That vey well may be the case, but please depict him in terms of a Hindu deity. From what I gather, the man has no regard for any other religion.

Eddie

bushmaster posted 10-26-98 04:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
I do not known that you control the Kingdom of God.
So Eddie,
He who tries to control God's Place shall be thrown into Hell Fire.
Repent, Eddie, for the Kingdom of heaven is at Hand.
Ravi Dev walks with the People and those who walk with the people walks with God.

Hoyte and the PNC lead some of the people in the wrong direction.

god posted 10-26-98 04:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
eddie does not subscribe to a good cause...he running around with BK. Good fu you!
eddie posted 10-26-98 04:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for eddie   Email eddie   
You are correct Bushy, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. I've done my repentance, have you?

Like Jim Jones, you've made up your own gospel. Tell me where did you find this bit about he who walks with the people walks with God. Only those cleansed by the blood of Christ walk with God, and he with them.

God (not Sattie) does work in mysterious ways. I am being called to repentance and rebuked by a man whose violent tendencies are uncontrollable.

Eddie

bushmaster posted 10-26-98 05:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Oh God, I beg you to protect your humble servant Ravi Dev from the wrath of the Georgetown Bullies and the PNC tugs.
Oh God, I ask that you give Ravi Dev the courage to fight off the evils of Hoyte and the PNC.
god posted 10-26-98 05:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
REQUESTS GRANTED WITHOUT RESERVATION TO MR. RAVI DEV, THE NEW APOSTLE!
bushmaster posted 10-26-98 05:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Now that I know that Ravi Dev is protected by God, I will rest in peace knowing that Satan's followers, Hoyte, PNC, LB, Racist, Eddie, Bk, Marshall, Rabid, David and Leslie can do no harm to this wonderful man whose only fault is to write the GOSPEL TRUTH.
leslie posted 10-27-98 02:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for leslie   Email leslie   
Bushmaster
Ravi has nothing to fear from me.

 

I am trying to understand is how come he is not to be afraid of you? After all he seems to believe more than I do that the PPP has outlived its usefulness. This org. is on a campaign to discredit the PPP/ among its own home base.

 

All I do is write the truth as I see it. He lies by saying the PPP/C is a "black party" ans his group truely represents indian interest. You are quite a conflicted man if you support both groups. They are incompatible.

 

You detest the PNC because you claim they are racists. Ravi is a racist if I am to believe the silly stuff they put out. How come you don't hate him?

 

If there is anything you should pray for is that Ravi Dev does not get a toe hold in Guyanese politics. I he does the country will burn.

eddie posted 10-27-98 09:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for eddie   Email eddie   
Bushmaster,

You are one scary chap. So all of us are evil now, even Marshall, your lone supporter. Boy, you are so delusional.

 

Your post bears commenting on because it is indicative of the ignorance in the Guyanese electorate. You have made this man out to be the next messiah because of his race and nothing else. The PNC may be evil and he has voiced his disapproval of them, but so have many others. I don't see you rallying around those folk

But Ravi to you is 'ah we bai'. There is no attempt to understand his views or look at him objectively and evaluate how he can benefit the country. You picked him solely because he is Indian and will benefit the Indian cause, the hell with the rest of the country.

 

This is the ignorance that the PNC followers showed many years ago, and you are repeating it. It is what got us to this low point, and sadly, looks like it will be perpetuated by people that think like you.

Eddie

bushmaster posted 10-27-98 09:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
In the entire history of the PNC, none of its members did any social work in Tiger Bay, Albouystown, Lodge and Sophia. The PNC party members walk around in a shirt jack, a goti beard and a stolen brief case.

Ravi Dev is working with the people in Medicine, social development, and legal advice. This is the work of God.
And you idiots sit in the US trying to spread false information on the internet. That is PNC style and the work of the Devil and your weapon is channa bomb.

Cookup posted 10-27-98 09:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for Cookup   Email Cookup   
Hey Bushy,
Yuh lef me out man. I want to be included in parade of opponents. I iz not a a gift horse.
eddie posted 10-27-98 09:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for eddie   Email eddie   
Bushmaster,

It all depends on your definition of who the 'people' are. You should state that he is working with ONE type of people, not all Guyanese. I don't begrudge him for that, but it is no reason for you to proclaim him a Messiah.

Furthermore, Dr Hugh in Queenstown did great work in medicine, he cured a lot of men with goadie. I don't see you proclaiming him a messiah.

Eddie

BK posted 10-27-98 10:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for BK   Email BK   
Bushman, Sattie,

And Sattie running around the chickens and sucking the eggs.

So when we can we expect copies of the NEW GOSPEL TRUTH according to Ravi Dev?

Judging from your post, if I was a god-fearing person I would have probably been hiding under my bed (like you) for fear of the wrath of your LORD and MASTER -- RAVI DEV. But since I am not, he can go to hell.

Your comments is typical of someone who does not knows where his loyalty lies -- by aligning yourself with the likes of Dev you have by default disassociated yourself from the PPP/C. It I were to use your own argumments, since you are against the PPP, then you for the PNC -- welcome to the club that you have placed myself and others in.

LB posted 10-27-98 10:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for LB   Email LB   
Cookup,

Bushman looking fuh supporters bai, how yuh gone do de man like da.

LB

 

Cookup posted 10-27-98 12:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Cookup   Email Cookup   
LB,
There are definitely some crowds one must stay away from.
god posted 10-27-98 01:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   

Red Carpet treatment is on the way for rav dev. The nonviolent approach to restore racial harmony in GT/GY is building momentum.


Even the amerinds have dropped their protective knives, wooden shovels, and grinding stones and are coming out to have a toast with Ravi, the deliverer of sufferring people in the far -away land, to which no one of you want to return.

 

Let Ravi clean the pnc mess. He is qualified without fear or bias. LB, na talk de man bad. He guh mek-up GT fu you with nice harmonium music in de background!

BK posted 10-27-98 01:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for BK   Email BK   
Sattie,

I see you have a forked tongue! I thought that the PPP/C was supposed to clean up the PNC mess?

god posted 10-27-98 01:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
bk, where were you when de pnc was furkin up de country?
Cookup posted 10-27-98 01:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Cookup   Email Cookup   
dat wuza good wan sattie.
LB posted 10-27-98 01:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for LB   Email LB   
sattie,

Thats the problems when he finish mecking up GT , I wouldnt be able to relate to the music in the background any more ,and every now and then i like to listen to some Reggae and soca.

I cant teck the pinga ling ah ling all day yuh know!!!

LB

BK posted 10-27-98 01:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for BK   Email BK   
Sattie,

I was forking in the backdam.

At least the PNC did more forking than the farmers!

god posted 10-27-98 03:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   

na LB, rav is a modern trend sadhu...
he guh give yu dancehall, backball, soca,calypsoes rap, hard metal, and bhangra to please but there must be some serenity, after all.

 

..and if yu want saucepan and bucket to knack, he guh give yu dat too!

god posted 10-27-98 03:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
oh, LB..
me fugat
if yu want barrel then he has NY connections via laparkin!
bushmaster posted 10-28-98 11:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
That is still more than what the PNC gave us for 1964-1992. You noticed that I did not say 28 years.
We are dealing with the PNC Mafia.
LB posted 10-28-98 11:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for LB   Email LB   
Bushamster, Sattie,

All of that sounds good but right now there is 3 tons of Cocaine sitting in Guyana ???

LB

god posted 10-28-98 11:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
we guh load dem 3 tons in the sugar estate punt and shipped dem to New York; we na gat containers!
bushmaster posted 10-28-98 11:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Yes, 3 tons of the good stuff. And them boys in Georgetown figuring out a way to siphon some. Give them time and they will find a way. This is a big catch and they are not letting it go that easy.
Where is Falcon. He will find a way.
LB posted 10-28-98 12:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for LB   Email LB   
IDIOT ITS ALREADY GONE??

LB

bushmaster posted 10-28-98 12:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
I thought so.
So nothing to worry about. Case closed.
LB posted 10-28-98 12:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for LB   Email LB   
Bushmaster,

Janet Jagan got the call and she send it back along with the runners?

LB

bushmaster posted 10-28-98 12:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
With the bushmaster riding Shot Gun backed up with a M64.
god posted 10-28-98 01:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
Since it is now a Gyese product, fellas on dis forum might want to stake their claim of a share. Wha about yu les, can you switch from "land not proclaimed" to cocaine?
Nufrespect posted 10-28-98 01:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Nufrespect   Email Nufrespect   

With the current cocaine runnings happening in Guyana, those boys are really re-defining the phrase... "Smoke" and "Mirrors". I think they forgot to add "Pipe" and "Razorblades".

leslie posted 10-28-98 05:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for leslie   Email leslie   
Hari
I do not have time for you. I do not think you really want to discuss anything. You merely want to broadcast an anit-PNC stance. I really don't care for that. Both parties have failed us. I am concerned with exploring the possible directions we may take and you are incapable of doing so. I have no more time to waste with you.
bushmaster posted 10-28-98 07:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Leslie,
I am not too sure whether you are myopic in on eye or both eyes.
Or whether you are afflicted with self induced amnesia.
I guess the short time Cheddi Jagan spent in Goverment 1992-1997 was unproducttive in your myopic eyes or amnesia brain.
Leslie, tell us how much bad PNC debts Cheddi got deleted.
god posted 10-29-98 09:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
Les does not want to believe that the true recovery of the nation is dependent on many valuable players. The ppp may have a few, but that is not enough. The pnc , uf, etc are destroyers, incapable of killing mosquitoes, but they want to kill the productive sector to prove that the legitimate govt is at fault.

Our social syndrome of diseased efforts is a penetration that goes beyond our people's hands and feet. A clear cut impact of yester year mismangement of our people is now assembled in the hearts of the current generation whereby they simply "want without efforts".

Until the peoples' motive is positively high -geared, expect no swift change.

 

bushmaster posted 10-30-98 10:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for bushmaster   Email bushmaster   
Ravi Dev and the GIFT organization are to hold a development clinic in Leguan. The agenda is to advice the people on good Goverment, Medicine and Law and Order.
god posted 10-30-98 02:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for god   Email god   
I will further suggest that Gift takes a moment to share ideas on how the population could be enlightened, and how they could become shining stars in their societies and the national arena.

We need to build future leaders in the land. Overseas Gyese talk nuff but will never reside again in GY. This message of being able to "do it by yourself" and "hard work and thinking" is the message for all Gyese people.

It is a huge task and we must wish Mr Ravi good luck in his spirited endeavor.

FM

Posted by B.Ramharack on October 30, 1998 at 03:42:23:

In Reply to: Re: This site posted by B.Ramharack on October 30, 1998 at 03:40:53:

 

: Dear Daniel:
: Thanks for responding to our website. One would hope that you are capable of channeling the rage which emanates from your letter into a more constructive and civil discourse on some of the issue raised at this site. While we may not be able to resolve all the issues that seems to create confusion in your mind, allow me to respond to some of the questions you raised.

 

: First to begin, without having your facts grounded in reality, you are making a number of rash assumptions in your letter, namely:

 

: a) We are all living abroad. Indeed , some of us do live in Guyana, as difficult as this may be for you to accept. We have a legitimate right to respond to threats, perceiver or real, to our security like anyone else whenever our community is under attack. Twenty-eight years of PNC oppression cannot be forgotten easily.

 

: b) Guyanese living abroad should not have a say in whay happens in our country. The many Guyanese who were exiled abroad were the ones who contributed through remittances to keep Guyana economically viable and lobbied hard to bring an end to PNC disctatorship. By your own logic, Dr Walter Rodney should not have condemned racism in Africa and Burnham should not have condemned apartheid in South Africa.

 

: c) Those Indians who speak out against injustice in Guyana are racists. A racist, accordingly to Stokeley Carmichael, in his book Black Rage, is someone who controls political power and can inflict harm to an entire group or race of people. Where has this happen in Guyana's history? We are always at the brunt of violence. What happen on January 12th when Africans unleashed a rage of violence against innocent Indians is a shame and low point in our human relations. Where is the glory in beating, robbing and molesting innocent Indian women and children?

 

: d)Indians in Guyana have political power. The PPP is supported by the majority of Indians, but Indians do not control the pillars of power in Guyana: the bureaucracy, disciplined forces, and the ability to wage destructive violence and shut down the country.

 

: I will be the first to admit that Indians living in the US have benefitted from the struggles of African-Americans. But, lets not confuse the issue. It was Africans who wilfully subjugated Indians in Guyana for 28 years. And while we are on this topic, it was the US who helped create that situation and help prop up the dictator. Those who came to American shores had a right to do so. In a sense, it was payback time. They also worked hard and contributed to the social programs designed to support the needy.

 

: You are more confused about federalism and partition. Despite the many discourses on the concept of federalism in Sabroek News, you, like the PNC are still determined to confuse the two. Most countries have a federalised structure or a system that devolves power, even tiny St Kitts-Nevis and Trinidad/Tobago. Such a system will diffuse the ethnic conflict that pollutes our society. We have also proposed other structural and distributional mechanisms designed not to achieve an "Elysian ethnic bliss" but to address the ethnic security dilemma.

 

: However, your real underlying motive becomes obvious when you suggest that "Afro Guyanese and Amerindians cannot take for granted the benevolence of Indian dominance in ...Berbice". This is quite an amazing statement. We are suggesting that its not a question about benevolence but one of security, which Africans will possess in Demerara. More importantly though, your statement implies that it is Africans and Amerindians who should DECIDE who will control the national patrimony (not Indians)and Indians should have no say in this matter. Indians cannot afford to take that chance, not after 28 years. Guyana belongs to all of us.

 

: As Samuel Huntington suggests, the new struggles in the worlk today will revolve around the question of ethnicity. We must learn from ours and others experience. The multiethnic paradigm you talked so nonchalantly about is not working in Guyana because we cannot lump everyone into one and call them the Guyaese working class. It was Walter Rodney who recognised that Indians and Africans should develop their own leadership at the national level and then work from there. Federalism will led to a more practical multi-ethnic society.


: We cannot speak for Africans, because we will never be able to do so. We can only speak for Indians and articulate their sentiments and concern. There are many groups in Guyana that speak for Africans, including ACDA, Pan-African Movement, NET, WPA and PNC. We are simply raising our voices and playing by the same rules by which others are playing.
: I hope we can continue in this discourse.

FM

Wow Stromborn. Thank you for posting these. These are memorable. I would have to find a way to save these. I only became aware of GNI in 2006 when a friend from Canada sent me a link saying I should see the action here instead of Guyanagazette. When these conversations were taking place I was a kid and young economist at Bank of Guyana. We did not have access to internet in those days. We did calculations by hand and calculator and eventually by Lotus and quickly to Microsoft Excel. I saw several posts from April 1999. April 12, 1999 is important for me because that's the day I got a letter from the British High Commissioner outlining my British Chevening Scholarship award that was fully funded by the British taxpayers. Although I was not in cyber world, I was on the ground in Guyana taking on the PPP. In 1998 I made a complete break from the PPP. I realized early that the PPP is the bane of East Indians in Guyana. I am even more certain of that today. The PPP is a horrible and truly evil political party. It is slowly taking the patrimony away from Guyanese human beings, children of slaves, indenture servants and Indigenous peoples, and gifting it to a few locals and foreigners.

FM

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