Baseman posted:VishMahabir posted:Baseman posted:antabanta posted:Well then thanks for your answer, you answered well!
Now return to your bubble! Why you even came out?
He came out a few days earlier...trolling me around the internet...he looking for friends
Maybe he likes you. Better put on your chastity belt!ð
You gave him a chastity belt? You jealous little thing.
antabanta posted:Antabanta...nicknamed the "shredder". he said he was going to shred me...
Yes. That's why you're terrified to post on some threads.
you must be new here trollster...stick around some more...your bubble might burst soon.
BTW...I am not in GRADUATE school... ...
...you deduced this little nugget of information all by yourself?
Gosh, yuh sooooooo darn bright!
Suh..what book you wrote?
Let me guess:
"On being a shredder and a trollster" by Knuckle head Anti B
Hold your breath...I gon be back lata...
VishMahabir posted:antabanta posted:Antabanta...nicknamed the "shredder". he said he was going to shred me...
Yes. That's why you're terrified to post on some threads.
BTW...I am not in GRADUATE school... ...
...you deduced this little nugget of information all by yourself?
Gosh, yuh sooooooo darn bright!
Suh..what book you wrote?
Let me guess:
"On being a shredder and a trollster" by Knuckle head Anti B
Hold your breath...I gon be back lata...
Whatever school you're in, demand a refund and run. Here's a little IT lesson. Hover your mouse over my handle and you'll see how new I am. Let me know if you need help. I'm going to shred you on this forum.... for no reason other than your idiotic comments. Make sure to wear your chastity belt when you go out... the special one Baseman gave you.
antabanta posted:Baseman posted:antabanta posted:Baseman posted:antabanta posted:There are studies such as Racial discrimination estimated to cost A$45bn to the economy proving the debilitating economic and social impact of racism and other prejudices and discriminatory practices. If the members of this forum who constantly launch racist attacks, spent 25% of that time trying to make Guyana better economically and socially, we could collectively make exponential progress.
During your days in the GDF, did you ever voice concerns or objected to its use to enforce PNC oppression and racism against the Indian masses? I assume you are Indian, so what actions did you take?
Why do you assume I ever witnessed the use of the GDF to enforce oppression and racism?
Well then thanks for your answer, you answered well!
Now return to your bubble! Why you even came out?
You're welcome. Are you taking the liberty to dispatch me out of fear? And what bubble?
Why should I fear you? Are you still a GDF bad man?
Baseman posted:Why should I fear you? Are you still a GDF bad man?
Was bad long before the GDF. I'm mellow now. Was wondering the same thing. Why are you urging me to go away? Nothing I've posted here addressed you except my replies to you. Could it be my brutally honest disposition about race relations grates your sensibilities?
antabanta posted:Baseman posted:Why should I fear you? Are you still a GDF bad man?
Was bad long before the GDF. I'm mellow now. Was wondering the same thing. Why are you urging me to go away? Nothing I've posted here addressed you except my replies to you. Could it be my brutally honest disposition about race relations grates your sensibilities?
You honest brutally fuh true. You spent years in the GDF and claim to be unaware of the PNC use of them against the people. You must have been stationed on an outpost on mars?
HEHEHEHEHE
VishMahabir posted:antabanta posted:Antabanta...nicknamed the "shredder". he said he was going to shred me...
Yes. That's why you're terrified to post on some threads.
BTW...I am not in GRADUATE school... ...
...you deduced this little nugget of information all by yourself?
Gosh, yuh sooooooo darn bright!
Suh..what book you wrote?
Let me guess:
"On being a shredder and a trollster" by Knuckle head Anti B
Hold your breath...I gon be back lata...
You can't get an AA diploma taking 1/2 a credit per semester
Baseman posted:antabanta posted:Baseman posted:Why should I fear you? Are you still a GDF bad man?
Was bad long before the GDF. I'm mellow now. Was wondering the same thing. Why are you urging me to go away? Nothing I've posted here addressed you except my replies to you. Could it be my brutally honest disposition about race relations grates your sensibilities?
You honest brutally fuh true. You spent years in the GDF and claim to be unaware of the PNC use of them against the people. You must have been stationed on an outpost on mars?
If you know of the use of GDF against the people between the years 1984 and 1988, present it and stop bsing.
antabanta posted:There are studies such as Racial discrimination estimated to cost A$45bn to the economy proving the debilitating economic and social impact of racism and other prejudices and discriminatory practices. If the members of this forum who constantly launch racist attacks, spent 25% of that time trying to make Guyana better economically and socially, we could collectively make exponential progress.
Racism in Guyana isn't the same as racism in the USA. This isn't about people who hate each other or who are ignorant of each other. This is about two tribes that have a high degree of distrust for each other. It is more institutional racism than it is social racism.
Such social racism is directed towards Amerindians who are seen by the other groups with great contempt. And even here it isn't hatred. Its just a mutual agreement among non Amerindians that people from the "bush" are backward and shouldn't be treated with respect.
While there are some genuine racists among both major ethnic groups it is more a case of ethnic fear. And the only way to deal with this is to have a discussion about the degree to which institutions in the public and private sector consciously or subconsciously discriminate against people from specific groups.
The politicians on both sides manipulate these fears and do nothing to address it because it isn't in their interests to do so.
Jagdeo runs around screaming that tens of thousands of Haitians have arrived in Guyana with the sole goal of depriving Indians of the right to totally dominate Guyana. This when he isn't terrifying Indians and Amerindians about savage blacks intent to rob and rape them, and then kill them.
Volda screamed "ah gun only hire PNC" in order to appease a mainly black/mixed PNC base who felt excluded under the PPP and who feel that their needs haven't been addressed by the Coalition. Did she for one minute stop to think how that sounded to those who aren't perceived to be "PNC". This including almost all Indians and the vast majority of Amerindians? No! She didn't think of this because she was pandering to a PNC base.
Both groups manifest "ahwe/ahbe pan tap", as soon as they think that they have power. This even as their own elites ignore/exploit them.
Between 2000-15 complaints were about arrogant Indians intent to exclude blacks by telling them "is not Burnham time now".
And since then we hear of power drunk PNC operatives displaying arrogance to all, but no doubt doing so with extra venom to poor Indians and Amerindians. This while they serve the interests of the economic elites (mainly Indians and Portuguese) provided that they receive a "raise".
Interesting how both worsened the ethnic insecurity. This being aa feeling of economic exclusion felt by blacks, and political exclusion felt by Indians who see a black dominated public sector, so need to see an Indo party to control this group.
Ask both Jagdeo and Volda and they will deny any ethnic intent and they might seriously delude themselves that this is the case. What NEITHER will do is to engage in a broad based discussion.
Sadly neither will most Guyanese who love to delude themselves that "everything OK, is just de politicians who try to divide we". Even as in their bottom house they murmur "collie people dis, and blackman dat". And peddle all the stereotypes of each other that the white man taught them 150 years ago as they sought to keep them divided in a system which exploited them both.
Reading a 19th C account by a British colonial about the then British Guiana is interesting. We hear of the "weak, conniving and crafty Indian, quite willing to starve his family either to hoard money or to waste it in the rum shop, this when he isn't chopping up his wife". The "strong, violent, lazy, undisciplined, hedonistic, and spend thrift African, living life from day to day without a thought for the future". And the "primitive, savage, and stupid Amerindian". All ideas that Guyanese gladly peddle today.
Baseman posted:antabanta posted:There are studies such as Racial discrimination estimated to cost A$45bn to the economy proving the debilitating economic and social impact of racism and other prejudices and discriminatory practices. If the members of this forum who constantly launch racist attacks, spent 25% of that time trying to make Guyana better economically and socially, we could collectively make exponential progress.
During your days in the GDF, did you ever voice concerns or objected to its use to enforce PNC oppression and racism against the Indian masses? I assume you are Indian, so what actions did you take?
I suspect he isn't trying to get into which group is worse than the other, because that is the root of our issues. Always claiming that its only one group to blame, when in fact both being equally guilty.
Afro intellectuals like Eusi, David Hinds, Andaiye and others have gone into this, looking at Afro racism as they did so. They remain respected by Afros.
Which are the Indos who have gone into Indo racism and how are they treated by the larger Indo population?
caribny posted:antabanta posted:There are studies such as Racial discrimination estimated to cost A$45bn to the economy proving the debilitating economic and social impact of racism and other prejudices and discriminatory practices. If the members of this forum who constantly launch racist attacks, spent 25% of that time trying to make Guyana better economically and socially, we could collectively make exponential progress.
Racism in Guyana isn't the same as racism in the USA. This isn't about people who hate each other or who are ignorant of each other. This is about two tribes that have a high degree of distrust for each other. It is more institutional racism than it is social racism.
Racism everywhere in the world is the same. How did you arrive at the distinction that racism in the US is based on hate while based on distrust in Guyana? And how did you ascertain the distrust in one realm and hate in the other? Racism is more institutionalized in the US as much, if not more than anywhere else.
Bibi Haniffa posted:Racism would be the least of the problems in Guyana soon. Coolie and black man will have to join forces to keep the foreigners at bay. Guyana is not prepared for the upcoming immigration problem. Things will get worse when dem Cuban and Venezuelan girls learn to cook Roti and bake pone.
A trait that Guyanese have is to ingratiate themselves into emerging systems. I bet both will run to the Exxon white man to complain about the other.
Indos couldn't give a damn about how Chinese treat blacks in bauxite or forestry and Afros don't care that Chinese immigrants are eliminating many Indo owned retail businesses.
Contrary to the fears of some Guyanese I don't see the Latin immigrants as having any more impact than do Guyanese in Barbados and the other islands. Maybe Guyanese will show more empathy for Bajans as they see Brazilians, Cubans and Venoes pouring into Guyana.
And Haitians only exist in Jagdeo's head. Most flee ASAP to Suriname enroute to jobs in FG.
antabanta posted:Racism everywhere in the world is the same. How did you arrive at the distinction that racism in the US is based on hate while based on distrust in Guyana. Racism is more institutionalized in the US as much, if not more than anywhere else.
Racism in the USA is based on white domination of all facets of life. People of color in general and blacks in particular have to face the impact of this power as it means that whites can actually impose their attitudes on these groups. Very rarely do whites have to worry about how nonwhites view them as very rarely do nonwhites exhibit any level of power to exclude whites.
Whites in the USA see themselves as being superior to others and also by and large segregate themselves from others, especially blacks. And as a result of this many whites are very ignorant of nonwhites, especially blacks.
This doesn't apply to Guyana. Racism in the USA is very different from what it is in Guyana.
In both societies institutional racism and implicit bias are issues, but in the USA white attitudes to others play a huge role as other groups are powerless in the face of this white domination.
The root of ethnic fear in Guyana is the fact that neither Indos nor Afro/mixed are totally powerless and both have the capacity to exclude based on the institutions where they exert power.
Now I know that you aren't about to tell me that any group in Guyana has as much total dominance as do whites in the USA.
ksazma posted:Currently the predominantly black party in Guyana is refusing to operate by the same rules they would have burnt the country out if the predominantly Indian party had done the same thing. That is the current racism pertaining to Guyanese. Anything else is an unnecessary diversion.
and this is how you show what our problem is. Do you ever admit to the fact that it isn't only blacks who are guilty of ethnic exclusion and have also been harmed when Indos have attempted to exclude them?
No you don't. So you really don't want a solution. You scream that you don't care the slightest about Guyana.
caribny posted:antabanta posted:Racism everywhere in the world is the same. How did you arrive at the distinction that racism in the US is based on hate while based on distrust in Guyana. Racism is more institutionalized in the US as much, if not more than anywhere else.
Racism in the USA is based on white domination of all facets of life. People of color in general and blacks in particular have to face the impact of this power as it means that whites can actually impose their attitudes on these groups. Very rarely do whites have to worry about how nonwhites view them as very rarely do nonwhites exhibit any level of power to exclude whites.
Whites in the USA see themselves as being superior to others and also by and large segregate themselves from others, especially blacks. And as a result of this many whites are very ignorant of nonwhites, especially blacks.
This doesn't apply to Guyana. Racism in the USA is very different from what it is in Guyana.
In both societies institutional racism and implicit bias are issues, but in the USA white attitudes to others play a huge role as other groups are powerless in the face of this white domination.
The root of ethnic fear in Guyana is the fact that neither Indos nor Afro/mixed are totally powerless and both have the capacity to exclude based on the institutions where they exert power.
Now I know that you aren't about to tell me that any group in Guyana has as much total dominance as do whites in the USA.
Is racism in both the US and Guyana discrimination against one race by another based on race? If not, then it's not racism.
As the Rev used to say, Afros and Indos generally get along well. They have to deal with the mistrust of each other.
Election brings out the worse of Guyanese.
Then we have PNC looting and burning.
Mo Fiah Slo Fiah Run down Regent St like Animals out of a cage!!!
antabanta posted:Is racism in both the US and Guyana discrimination against one race by another based on race? If not, then it's not racism.
I cannot help you if you don't understand that there is a clear difference between racism in the USA and in Guyana.
Does one race single handedly control institutions and then use this domination to exclude in Guyana as is clearly the case in the USA?
In Guyana it is about blacks and Indians having an honest discussion about why we have a problem. We are both guilty of creating a problem and we have both suffered as a result of this problem.
Do you think that in the USA its the same? In what universe do blacks in the USA have to dominate or discriminate against whites? Sports? Of course not as the team owners are mainly white.
Are you suggesting that whites suffer discrimination at the hands of blacks in the USA, as some Indians might credibly claim happens to them in Guyana?
Are you suggesting that one race in Guyana holds all the levers of power as is clearly the case in the USA?
The issue of racism in Guyana is very different from what it is in the USA. That is if you are seriously looking for a solution.
yuji22 posted:As the Rev used to say, Afros and Indos generally get along well. They have to deal with the mistrust of each other.
Election brings out the worse of Guyanese.
Then we have PNC looting and burning.
And if they get along then why the problems at election?
And we have had several elections since the last violence.
Bai. PNC has a record of post election violence. Jagdeo bussed their balls when they attempted election violence which is one of the reasons why they are now quiet.
God only knows what will happen at the next time election.
Guyana does not have a rampant race problem, it is one of mistrust between Indos and Afros. They need rid themselves of the mistrust and both races will benefit.
It will take a Truth Commission to end that mistrust. Both sides can spill their guts.
antabanta posted:Baseman posted:Why should I fear you? Are you still a GDF bad man?
Was bad long before the GDF. I'm mellow now. Was wondering the same thing. Why are you urging me to go away? Nothing I've posted here addressed you except my replies to you. Could it be my brutally honest disposition about race relations grates your sensibilities?
Naw bright boy...follow carefully....the fear is you might turn into a bad itch...one that difficult to go away...
caribny posted:antabanta posted:Is racism in both the US and Guyana discrimination against one race by another based on race? If not, then it's not racism.
I cannot help you if you don't understand that there is a clear difference between racism in the USA and in Guyana.
Does one race single handedly control institutions and then use this domination to exclude in Guyana as is clearly the case in the USA?
In Guyana it is about blacks and Indians having an honest discussion about why we have a problem. We are both guilty of creating a problem and we have both suffered as a result of this problem.
Do you think that in the USA its the same? In what universe do blacks in the USA have to dominate or discriminate against whites? Sports? Of course not as the team owners are mainly white.
Are you suggesting that whites suffer discrimination at the hands of blacks in the USA, as some Indians might credibly claim happens to them in Guyana?
Are you suggesting that one race in Guyana holds all the levers of power as is clearly the case in the USA?
The issue of racism in Guyana is very different from what it is in the USA. That is if you are seriously looking for a solution.
I have not asked for your help. Please answer the simple question. Is racism in both the US and Guyana discrimination against one race by another based on race? The issue is the debilitating impact of racism. Is the impact of racism vastly different in the different areas where one group suffers discrimination from another?
VishMahabir posted:antabanta posted:Baseman posted:Why should I fear you? Are you still a GDF bad man?
Was bad long before the GDF. I'm mellow now. Was wondering the same thing. Why are you urging me to go away? Nothing I've posted here addressed you except my replies to you. Could it be my brutally honest disposition about race relations grates your sensibilities?
Naw bright boy...follow carefully....the fear is you might turn into a bad itch...one that difficult to go away...
Your chastity belt is too tight. It's blocking blood flow. Ask Baseman permission to take it off before you black out.
Baseman posted:antabanta posted:Baseman posted:Why should I fear you? Are you still a GDF bad man?
Was bad long before the GDF. I'm mellow now. Was wondering the same thing. Why are you urging me to go away? Nothing I've posted here addressed you except my replies to you. Could it be my brutally honest disposition about race relations grates your sensibilities?
You honest brutally fuh true. You spent years in the GDF and claim to be unaware of the PNC use of them against the people. You must have been stationed on an outpost on mars?
Base, you really think Anti B was a soldier?
He turned to one big stalker...peeping and following people around....
watch out...he is the shredding machine...
VishMahabir posted:Baseman posted:antabanta posted:Baseman posted:Why should I fear you? Are you still a GDF bad man?
Was bad long before the GDF. I'm mellow now. Was wondering the same thing. Why are you urging me to go away? Nothing I've posted here addressed you except my replies to you. Could it be my brutally honest disposition about race relations grates your sensibilities?
You honest brutally fuh true. You spent years in the GDF and claim to be unaware of the PNC use of them against the people. You must have been stationed on an outpost on mars?
Base, you really think Anti B was a soldier?
He turned to one big stalker...peeping and following people around....
watch out...he is the shredding machine...
Base and Vish?? Such love between you two. He's going to defend you? Better run. I'm going to shred you on this forum. Do you have any thoughts on the debilitating impact of racism? That might be an unfair question. Do you have any thoughts?
antabanta posted:caribny posted:antabanta posted:There are studies such as Racial discrimination estimated to cost A$45bn to the economy proving the debilitating economic and social impact of racism and other prejudices and discriminatory practices. If the members of this forum who constantly launch racist attacks, spent 25% of that time trying to make Guyana better economically and socially, we could collectively make exponential progress.
Racism in Guyana isn't the same as racism in the USA. This isn't about people who hate each other or who are ignorant of each other. This is about two tribes that have a high degree of distrust for each other. It is more institutional racism than it is social racism.
Racism everywhere in the world is the same. How did you arrive at the distinction that racism in the US is based on hate while based on distrust in Guyana? And how did you ascertain the distrust in one realm and hate in the other? Racism is more institutionalized in the US as much, if not more than anywhere else.
Racism everywhere in the world is NOT the same...
There are different levels ranging from the benign where one group attempts to ethnically cleanse the other (Hitler v Jews).
On the other extreme, there is indeed discrimination and biased attitudes. Racism in Guyana does not approximate the level at which it existed in Rwanda, Germany, former Yugoslavia, etc...It is more grounded in dislike, stereotypical views, and distrust, engineered by the colonial power with their divide and conquer policy. In Guyana, both groups are not in a situation where one group is engaged in a systematic elimination of the other. Much of this distrust can be reduced if leaders are willing to explore that angle.
In the US, there is no de jure segregation today but there is definitely institutionalized racism which is a remnant of the type of racism that existed in this country during and since slavery.
Those who control power in the US today have privilege that places the majority of whites who control power (white privilege)....many who moved up the social hierarchy on the backs of the poor and downtrodden...
Trevor Noah explained this best to Oprah...
antabanta posted:caribny posted:antabanta posted:Racism everywhere in the world is the same. How did you arrive at the distinction that racism in the US is based on hate while based on distrust in Guyana. Racism is more institutionalized in the US as much, if not more than anywhere else.
Racism in the USA is based on white domination of all facets of life. People of color in general and blacks in particular have to face the impact of this power as it means that whites can actually impose their attitudes on these groups. Very rarely do whites have to worry about how nonwhites view them as very rarely do nonwhites exhibit any level of power to exclude whites.
Whites in the USA see themselves as being superior to others and also by and large segregate themselves from others, especially blacks. And as a result of this many whites are very ignorant of nonwhites, especially blacks.
This doesn't apply to Guyana. Racism in the USA is very different from what it is in Guyana.
In both societies institutional racism and implicit bias are issues, but in the USA white attitudes to others play a huge role as other groups are powerless in the face of this white domination.
The root of ethnic fear in Guyana is the fact that neither Indos nor Afro/mixed are totally powerless and both have the capacity to exclude based on the institutions where they exert power.
Now I know that you aren't about to tell me that any group in Guyana has as much total dominance as do whites in the USA.
Is racism in both the US and Guyana discrimination against one race by another based on race? If not, then it's not racism.
Well....how do you define racism?
VishMahabir posted:antabanta posted:caribny posted:antabanta posted:Racism everywhere in the world is the same. How did you arrive at the distinction that racism in the US is based on hate while based on distrust in Guyana. Racism is more institutionalized in the US as much, if not more than anywhere else.
Racism in the USA is based on white domination of all facets of life. People of color in general and blacks in particular have to face the impact of this power as it means that whites can actually impose their attitudes on these groups. Very rarely do whites have to worry about how nonwhites view them as very rarely do nonwhites exhibit any level of power to exclude whites.
Whites in the USA see themselves as being superior to others and also by and large segregate themselves from others, especially blacks. And as a result of this many whites are very ignorant of nonwhites, especially blacks.
This doesn't apply to Guyana. Racism in the USA is very different from what it is in Guyana.
In both societies institutional racism and implicit bias are issues, but in the USA white attitudes to others play a huge role as other groups are powerless in the face of this white domination.
The root of ethnic fear in Guyana is the fact that neither Indos nor Afro/mixed are totally powerless and both have the capacity to exclude based on the institutions where they exert power.
Now I know that you aren't about to tell me that any group in Guyana has as much total dominance as do whites in the USA.
Is racism in both the US and Guyana discrimination against one race by another based on race? If not, then it's not racism.
Well....how do you define racism?
"In both societies institutional racism and implicit bias are issues"
Not that I care to get into this type of discussion with but where exactly is this notion of "institutional racism" displayed and demonstrated in Guyana? What institutions are you referring to?....In a small society like Guyana, it is difficult to argue that institutional racism exist, at least to the intense level at which it is institutionalized in the US.
Implicit bias is another concept that is not only a global phenomenon. For example, it can be demonstrated in a classroom setting where there is a diverse student population but the teacher (regardless of race) may hold biases about students that may generate assumptions about something as simple body languages. This type of implicit bias, which can be addressed by empathy, greater appreciation of others, etc, is found in ALL societies where people of different cultural groups interact.
caribny posted:antabanta posted:Is racism in both the US and Guyana discrimination against one race by another based on race? If not, then it's not racism.
I cannot help you if you don't understand that there is a clear difference between racism in the USA and in Guyana.
Does one race single handedly control institutions and then use this domination to exclude in Guyana as is clearly the case in the USA?
In Guyana it is about blacks and Indians having an honest discussion about why we have a problem. We are both guilty of creating a problem and we have both suffered as a result of this problem.
Do you think that in the USA its the same? In what universe do blacks in the USA have to dominate or discriminate against whites? Sports? Of course not as the team owners are mainly white.
Are you suggesting that whites suffer discrimination at the hands of blacks in the USA, as some Indians might credibly claim happens to them in Guyana?
Are you suggesting that one race in Guyana holds all the levers of power as is clearly the case in the USA?
The issue of racism in Guyana is very different from what it is in the USA. That is if you are seriously looking for a solution.
Carib....this dude comes off like a know-it-all-charlatan...
equating racism in Guyana with the US is like comparing oranges and apples....he does not get it...
yuji22 posted:Bai. PNC has a record of post election violence.
the last time that there was election violence was in 2001. The PNC stopped this after that because such tactics were deplored even by its base and they were undermining their ability to be viewed seriously.
Now all of these old time Indo men who love to pretend that they are superman, ask yourself why most of the Phantoms were blacks, because in fact most of them had a background in the GDF or the police force.
All you are left to boast about is the ability of the Indo elites to buy themselves a mainly black private army. This even as ordinary Guyanese of all races fear being robbed by criminals of all race. Ironically the Indo bandits focusing on their fellow Indians. In fact its now reached the point where there are several criminal gangs consisting of both Indos and Afros.
So what is Jagdeo doing about that?
VishMahabir posted:
Carib....this dude comes off like a know-it-all-charlatan...
equating racism in Guyana with the US is like comparing oranges and apples....he does not get it...
He means well and to his credit he is one of the few Indos on GNI who tries to get Indos to face up to their own role in our ethnic troubles.
But its clear that the roots of racism in the USA is very different from what it is in Guyana. The closest parallels that I can see are the periodic black vs. Hispanic dust ups that occur as two powerless groups battle for the crumbs.
VishMahabir posted:In the US, there is no de jure segregation today but there is definitely institutionalized racism which is a remnant of the type of racism that existed in this country during and since slavery.
Those who control power in the US today have privilege that places the majority of whites who control power (white privilege)....many who moved up the social hierarchy on the backs of the poor and downtrodden...
Trevor Noah explained this best to Oprah...
And here is the difference.
In Guyana we have two groups with a history of deep subordination and loads of psychological problems arising from this. When the Brits decided that they had nothing more to get out of Guyana and left these two groups were marooned and left to fight for the scraps that ethnic domination would provide.
Because of our history each group developed power in different places. While former slaves endeavored to be farmers and small business people the colonial authority feared the power that an economical vibrant black population would have and sought to destroy their power base.
Blacks then sought upward mobility through involvement in the civil service and in the trades. Heavy involvement in the church allowed this and so they gladly closed off options for Indians to enter these occupations and to compete. The problem with relying on power through public sector dominance is that it doesn't work unless there is also control of the political apparatus.
So we have the Indo complex. Not all were able to achieve success in farming or in small business so wanted to enter the civil service and were blocked. They also feared that Afro control of the public sector, inclusive of the armed forces left them vulnerable.
All of this has nothing to do with de facto and de jure Jim Crow which privileged one group and seriously damaged the other. And up to today we still see the legacy of it.
Maybe one can argue that Mauritius racism is like that of the USA where Indians control all the levers of power, inclusive of the armed forces. So Creoles are severely subordinated. Not true for Guyana.
Guyana is also not like Rwanda where two completely separate groups had direct hatreds for each other. Inter ethnic relationships in Guyana are more complex and nuanced, which is why few Guyanese want to discuss this issue openly and pretend that its only the politicians who are to blame. they can cite much intersectionality to show that open hatred isn't the norm in Guyana.
This is why a discussion is needed because the issue is so complex that we don't even agree as to what the issue is. Until we do we cannot then understand what the resolution is.
Guyana is NOT what it was in the 60s when by and large the urban black population was completely isolated from the rural Indian.
VishMahabir posted:VishMahabir "Not that I care to get into this type of discussion with but where exactly is this notion of "institutional racism" displayed and demonstrated in Guyana? What institutions are you referring to?....In a small society like Guyana, it is difficult to argue that institutional racism exist, at least to the intense level at which it is institutionalized in the US.
Black dominated armed forces and Indo dominated private sector. And when a black dominated gov't is in power we can add the entire public sector as well.
This is the basis of institutional racism.
Implicit bias suggests that blacks make poor managers/professionals in the private sector and that Indians aren't suitable as policemen or soldiers. Even as we know this to be a lie such attitudes remain quite pervasive.
Also what makes discussions on racism to be difficult is that we don't agree to what racism is.
1. Normally it is viewed as open hatred, or feelings of superiority. Well on GNI only Ksaz, Yuji, Skeldon and dave are open bigots. Normal people in 2019 aren't and its usually not in issue/
2. Is it viewed as domination of institutions by a particular group and the use of this dominance (explicit or implicit) in ways that render these entities as being biased against other groups? This is a more modern definition as few nowadays freely admit to hating other groups, or calling them scourges. Ksazma, Yuji, Skeldon and Dave being unique. Even druggie clearly "loves" blacks as his adoration for black anatomy and his obsession with Indos being sexed by Afros indicates.
3. then there is implicit bias. We don't mean to be biased and often we aren't even aware of this. But it does exist and this is what makes it difficult as it is hard to prove. For instance far fewer blacks getting into tech, but those who do are promoted at higher rates than are Indos. Two levels of implicit bias operate, one being that Asians are nerdy and have poor social skills so make poor managers.
VishMahabir posted:antabanta posted:caribny posted:antabanta posted:There are studies such as Racial discrimination estimated to cost A$45bn to the economy proving the debilitating economic and social impact of racism and other prejudices and discriminatory practices. If the members of this forum who constantly launch racist attacks, spent 25% of that time trying to make Guyana better economically and socially, we could collectively make exponential progress.
Racism in Guyana isn't the same as racism in the USA. This isn't about people who hate each other or who are ignorant of each other. This is about two tribes that have a high degree of distrust for each other. It is more institutional racism than it is social racism.
Racism everywhere in the world is the same. How did you arrive at the distinction that racism in the US is based on hate while based on distrust in Guyana? And how did you ascertain the distrust in one realm and hate in the other? Racism is more institutionalized in the US as much, if not more than anywhere else.
Racism everywhere in the world is NOT the same...
There are different levels ranging from the benign where one group attempts to ethnically cleanse the other (Hitler v Jews).
On the other extreme, there is indeed discrimination and biased attitudes. Racism in Guyana does not approximate the level at which it existed in Rwanda, Germany, former Yugoslavia, etc...It is more grounded in dislike, stereotypical views, and distrust, engineered by the colonial power with their divide and conquer policy. In Guyana, both groups are not in a situation where one group is engaged in a systematic elimination of the other. Much of this distrust can be reduced if leaders are willing to explore that angle.
In the US, there is no de jure segregation today but there is definitely institutionalized racism which is a remnant of the type of racism that existed in this country during and since slavery.
Those who control power in the US today have privilege that places the majority of whites who control power (white privilege)....many who moved up the social hierarchy on the backs of the poor and downtrodden...
Trevor Noah explained this best to Oprah...
Put on the dunce cap and go sit in the corner and listen but don't speak.
caribny posted:VishMahabir posted:
Carib....this dude comes off like a know-it-all-charlatan...
equating racism in Guyana with the US is like comparing oranges and apples....he does not get it...
He means well and to his credit he is one of the few Indos on GNI who tries to get Indos to face up to their own role in our ethnic troubles.
But its clear that the roots of racism in the USA is very different from what it is in Guyana. The closest parallels that I can see are the periodic black vs. Hispanic dust ups that occur as two powerless groups battle for the crumbs.
There are no multiple definitions or different types of racism. Racism is prejudice by one race against another. There are different circumstances between Guyana and the US and different areas in the world. For example, we don't hear about racism in China which is homogeneous because they keep everyone out. But they keep everyone out because of racism which is racial prejudice by one race against another. The purpose, motive, circumstance, outcome, may all differ from one area to another but racism remains race-based prejudice by one race against another.
VishMahabir posted:Carib....this dude comes off like a know-it-all-charlatan...
equating racism in Guyana with the US is like comparing oranges and apples....he does not get it...
You have to somehow accept the idea that your poor intellect is not a common deficiency. Don't allow my limited knowledge to bother you so much. What I know is negligible compared to what I don't know. The definition of racism is easy to find, unless you managed to remove Google from your computer.
antabanta posted:caribny posted:VishMahabir posted:There are no multiple definitions or different types of racism. Racism is prejudice by one race against another. .
I guess you haven't heard about white liberal racism. Yes those nice people are convinced that they are "color blind" but yet perpetrate or condone institutional racism and implicit bias. Bernie Sanders was proven guilty of this, but clearly is different in how it manifests than is Trump.
Sanders validly doesn't know that he acts in ways that perpetrate racism, whereas Trump proudly peddles it as it excites his fan club.
I didn't really read this thread, this is my opinion on the topic
Lots of Afros and Indos in Guyana and overseas are stupid. They miss the big picture, and instead focus on petty crap instead of figuring out a way to work together to build the country.
You see lots of that on GNI
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