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FM
Former Member

THE FIVE BILLION DOLLAR QUESTION

 
APRIL 8, 2012 | BY  | FILED UNDER FEATURES / COLUMNISTS, PEEPING TOM 

 

The government’s shares in the Guyana Telephone and Telegraph Company (GT&T) had to be eventually placed on the auction block. These shares could not have been held indefinitely by the State, because the government needed the proceeds from these shares for its information and communication technology (ICT) programme.
The Norway funds have been dribbling in. Those environmental funds are needed to build the hydroelectric plant at Amaila Falls and to be used as state equity in the hotel which the oligarchy is interested in building in Guyana so that it can have an outlet for its billions.


The Norway funds are not going to come fast enough to allow for the ICT investment that is needed. The sale of the government’s 20% shares in GT&T was always, therefore, going to have to be used to fund the national ICT strategy.
The government has repeatedly said this was the reason for selling the shares. But there may have been another more important reason for advertising the shares for sale. The oligarchy is interested in want outlets to invest their money. The shares are a lucrative proposition. It was not always so though. In the early days, the shares were underperforming financially because the returns on them were poor.


But in recent years, the dividend flow became quite impressive. Once something is making money, the oligarchy is going to be interested. With their inside track, the oligarchy calculated that these shares were a good source to pump their money into because it offered at least a 10% return. That may not be as good as the hotel deal or the deal that some private investors made in the Berbice River Bridge, but a 10% return is far more than the banks are going to pay to keep your money. The oligarchy therefore must have seen these shares as a business opportunity.


The government thus suddenly decided that these profitable shares had to be sold. The opposition asked that it be sold to the workers, but this was always going to be difficult, because the workers were never ever going to be able to secure the capital to purchase those shares in whatever manner it was to be sold. The shares were always going to be out of reach. The shares were eventually advertised for sale. No base price was set. The bids came in. The government said the prices were too low. It could have continued to seek bidders, including breaking up the shares into portions that the local private sector could afford. But there was always the suspicion that the government had its reasons why it wanted its shares to be sold en bloc.


As things stand now, it is reported that a Chinese firm has made an offer. It is very interesting that the Chinese firm made the offer now and not during the original bid. The question is why were other offers not invited, that is, why were the shares not placed once again on the open market? This reminds us very much of the sale of Sanata Textiles Mills Complex. The government advertised for the sale or lease of one part of the complex, but eventually accepted a later offer for the lease of the complex, with an option to buy, from an investor. In the case of the shares of the GT&T, the shares were advertised and there was no acceptable bidder. Then the shares are now sold to a Chinese company.


This is not too far off from what also happened with the one laptop per family project. The contract for the supply of laptops was advertised. Three firms bid and then we were told that none was successful.
Interestingly, the specifications were changed, and new bids invited. Obviously the new bidders would have by then learnt of what the old bidders had bid. These old bidders were thus placed in a disadvantageous position. And, of course, we know a Chinese firm which has links to someone who is close to the local oligarchy won the bid.
Now we come to the five billion dollar question. Why would a Chinese firm be interested in holding 20% shares in a telecommunication company which is about to face the loss of its monopoly on overseas calls and impending legislation for the liberalization of the telecommunication sector?


Why would someone be investing $25M in shares which would not allow them to have determining say in the affairs of the company they are investing in? The Chinese are not interested in going into the telecommunication market in Guyana. We are too small for that interest. So why invest all this money, and who is behind this investment?
The answer is right in front of your noses!

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by Mara:

"...So why invest all this money, and who is behind this investment?
The answer is right in front of your noses!..."


and  I  still can't  see  i So  TK  is  one  of  them  peeper!

 

No I am not ...but I think this Peeper is on to something here. The Peeper has the general drift of how this government operates.

FM

More conspiracy theories from those looking to usurp power.  First govt must divest itself from private enterprise, now the critics needing political controversy seeks to change their tune and claim that govt must continue to hold investments in business. A departure from capitalist ideals and back to the realms of communism. hahahhahaah

FM

Mr B_Gurd,

 

You seem not to be aware that this is a sale from one government to another. There goes your capitalist pretense. The Chinese companies are state-owned corporations acting like private ones. They call it state capitalism. Please be informed before you make stupid comments. Do you doubt that Jagdeo and Ramoutar changed the rules in Parliament to benefit Bobby? Is that conspiracy theory? Is it conspiracy theory that Ramoutar is a surrogate for Jagdeo? Have you missed how Jagdeo and Ramoutar rigged the PPP election? 

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

More conspiracy theories from those looking to usurp power.  First govt must divest itself from private enterprise, now the critics needing political controversy seeks to change their tune and claim that govt must continue to hold investments in business. A departure from capitalist ideals and back to the realms of communism. hahahhahaah

There is no conspiracy theory. The PPP does not formulate any political economic or social strategy if it does not enrich their kith and kin. THe PPP  thinks divesting means providing its kith and kin with access to the states capital. Look carefully you will see the same or PPP connected  people at the core of all its supposedly capital ventures. 

FM
Originally Posted by PRK:

Mr B_Gurd,

 

You seem not to be aware that this is a sale from one government to another. There goes your capitalist pretense. The Chinese companies are state-owned corporations acting like private ones. They call it state capitalism. Please be informed before you make stupid comments. Do you doubt that Jagdeo and Ramoutar changed the rules in Parliament to benefit Bobby? Is that conspiracy theory? Is it conspiracy theory that Ramoutar is a surrogate for Jagdeo? Have you missed how Jagdeo and Ramoutar rigged the PPP election? 

 

Lets face it, you people are trying to score political points at every juncture.  In fact you AFC types don't even know the name of the company to whom the govt is alleged to have made a deal, or even if the company is govt owned. Whether the company is Chinese govt owned or not is irrelevant. The fact is that the GOG must divest itself from all private enterprise in line with capitalist ideals. The shares were put up for sale and there were no takers so now they have a taker you people find excuse to manufacture controversy where none exist.  In fact the returns of 2m on 30m investment is not exactly a steal at a meager 7% dividends that is not guaranteed. ahahahah

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
Originally Posted by PRK:

Mr B_Gurd,

 

You seem not to be aware that this is a sale from one government to another. There goes your capitalist pretense. The Chinese companies are state-owned corporations acting like private ones. They call it state capitalism. Please be informed before you make stupid comments. Do you doubt that Jagdeo and Ramoutar changed the rules in Parliament to benefit Bobby? Is that conspiracy theory? Is it conspiracy theory that Ramoutar is a surrogate for Jagdeo? Have you missed how Jagdeo and Ramoutar rigged the PPP election? 

 

Lets face it, you people are trying to score political points at every juncture.  In fact you AFC types don't even know the name of the company to whom the govt is alleged to have made a deal, or even if the company is govt owned. Whether the company is Chinese govt owned or not is irrelevant. The fact is that the GOG must divest itself from all private enterprise in line with capitalist ideals. The shares were put up for sale and there were no takers so now they have a taker you people find excuse to manufacture controversy where none exist.  In fact the returns of 2m on 30m investment is not exactly a steal at a meager 7% dividends that is not guaranteed. ahahahah

===========================================

 

Here you go Sir:

 

Gov’t sold GT&T shares to China’s Datang Group

 

Posted By Stabroek staff On April 12, 2012 @ 5:28 am 

 

Chinese tech giant Datang Telecom Technology & Industry Group has been confirmed by a member of the Cabinet as the company that was sold government’s 20 percent shares in the Guyana Telephone and Telegraph Company (GT&T).

The sale of the shares has garnered US$30 million or $6 billion, which the government may dedicate to the development of the IT sector in Guyana.

The government, through spokesman Dr. Roger Luncheon, had announced the sale last week following Cabinet’s decision on the matter, even though he was tight-lipped about the name of the company that has made the acquisition.

 

The Datang Group’s offer reportedly included a proposed initial payment of US$20 million, followed by a further payment of US$10 million over ten years.

A second offer reportedly involved a down payment of US$25 million and a further US$5 million to be paid in instalments over seven years.

From all indications, the government has favoured the latter option albeit with modifications and will receive US$25M up front and the remaining US$5M will be paid over the next five years.

 

Asked what motivated the sale, Dr Luncheon said that US$30M is a lot of money even though the government was receiving a little over US$2M a year from the telephone company; the government had retained 20% when it sold 80% to GT&T’s parent company ATN in 1991.

 

In September last year, Stabroek Business had reported that the Chinese telecommunications company Datang Telecom Technology & Industry Group could be favoured by government to acquire its 20 per cent shareholding in GT&T.

Datang is one of China’s showpiece hi-tech companies, which specialises in the development, production and sale of electronic information systems and equipment. Founded in 1999, the company is reportedly managed by the state-run Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council.

Figures seen by this newspaper indicate that since 2000, when the Government of Guyana began receiving dividend payments on its shares to the end of last year, GT&T has paid over more than $6 billion in dividends.

Since 1999 too, the Government of Guyana has also received more than $35 billion in consumption, corporation and value-added taxes.

 

Sector analysts have said that these payments make GT&T one of the more profitable investments ever undertaken by the Government of Guyana.

Stabroek Business had also been informed that some time ago ATN turned down an offer to buy government’s shareholding in the company for US$45 million.

Datang’s product and service portfolio ranges from wireless mobile telecommunications, integrated circuit design and manufacturing, to information security. The company’s overall assets are nearly 50 billion RMB.

FM
Originally Posted by PRK:

Mr B_Gurd our capitalist friend see the link:

 

http://www.china-cdt.com/en/AB...RODUCTION/46465.html

Now this is more in the sprit of proper posting integrity, wait for verification before making making assumptions.


Don't be a dunce, realize that the Chinese govt invest in the US economy by being the largest buyer of treasuries. If you don't know this then ask Lucas.

 

You will note, ie if you can read, that I stated that whether the datang was govt owned or not was irrelevant. What is relevant is that the gog divest itself from private ventures. The job of govt is to govern not run businesses. If you want to live in a country that has govt running private companies you are welcome to migrate to China. ahhahahhahahahahaah

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
Originally Posted by PRK:

Mr B_Gurd,

 

You seem not to be aware that this is a sale from one government to another. There goes your capitalist pretense. The Chinese companies are state-owned corporations acting like private ones. They call it state capitalism. Please be informed before you make stupid comments. Do you doubt that Jagdeo and Ramoutar changed the rules in Parliament to benefit Bobby? Is that conspiracy theory? Is it conspiracy theory that Ramoutar is a surrogate for Jagdeo? Have you missed how Jagdeo and Ramoutar rigged the PPP election? 

 

Lets face it, you people are trying to score political points at every juncture.  In fact you AFC types don't even know the name of the company to whom the govt is alleged to have made a deal, or even if the company is govt owned. Whether the company is Chinese govt owned or not is irrelevant. The fact is that the GOG must divest itself from all private enterprise in line with capitalist ideals. The shares were put up for sale and there were no takers so now they have a taker you people find excuse to manufacture controversy where none exist.  In fact the returns of 2m on 30m investment is not exactly a steal at a meager 7% dividends that is not guaranteed. ahahahah

Why is it that highlighting possibility for graft is always a scheme for idiots with you? If you are a programmer then you know the gotcha is what one looks at and it rears its head in unusual places.

 

It is the reason you have to know of every potential outcome to ensure integrity of the system. Here we are not told anything. The PPP in their usual flights of megalomania believes they have all the answers and the people be damned. The reason for the sail is given by Luncheon as "it is a lot of money".

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
Originally Posted by PRK:

Mr B_Gurd our capitalist friend see the link:

 

http://www.china-cdt.com/en/AB...RODUCTION/46465.html

Now this is more in the sprit of proper posting integrity, wait for verification before making making assumptions.


Don't be a dunce, realize that the Chinese govt invest in the US economy by being the largest buyer of treasuries. If you don't know this then ask Lucas.

 

You will note, ie if you can read, that I stated that whether the datang was govt owned or not was irrelevant. What is relevant is that the gog divest itself from private ventures. The job of govt is to govern not run businesses. If you want to live in a country that has govt running private companies you are welcome to migrate to China. ahhahahhahahahahaah

The problem here is it is not their private inheritance, they are dealing with but the nations asset. We cannot pay our old age pensioner more than 40 a month and this is 2 million guaranteed why not tag  the increase of our these needy people to this income source? But they need the slush fund and that is the point!

 

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
Originally Posted by PRK:

Mr B_Gurd our capitalist friend see the link:

 

http://www.china-cdt.com/en/AB...RODUCTION/46465.html

Now this is more in the sprit of proper posting integrity, wait for verification before making making assumptions.


Don't be a dunce, realize that the Chinese govt invest in the US economy by being the largest buyer of treasuries. If you don't know this then ask Lucas.

 

You will note, ie if you can read, that I stated that whether the datang was govt owned or not was irrelevant. What is relevant is that the gog divest itself from private ventures. The job of govt is to govern not run businesses. If you want to live in a country that has govt running private companies you are welcome to migrate to China. ahhahahhahahahahaah

The problem here is it is not their private inheritance, they are dealing with but the nations asset. We cannot pay our old age pensioner more than 40 a month and this is 2 million guaranteed why not tag  the increase of our these needy people to this income source? But they need the slush fund and that is the point!

 

In your world you would forgoe development and create a welfare state. However I believe that govt should continue to work on upgrading infrastructure rather than take the short term politically motivated goal of increasing pensions that many not be sustainable should the economy turn south.

FM

 

Originally Posted by BGurd_See:

In your world you would forgoe development and create a welfare state. However I believe that govt should continue to work on upgrading infrastructure rather than take the short term politically motivated goal of increasing pensions that many not be sustainable should the economy turn south.

You would have some traction for your argument if capitalization of industries in Guyana was a matter of balancing the books on capital investment of the entrepreneurs. To the contrary. It is on give sways and a balancing of these give aways with supposed benfits. That is why each has to be explained in detail as to its cost to benefit assumptions for us to understand as prudent citizens. As noted it is not the PPP's private family money. It is the peoples'

 

From the lumber companies to the oil companies to the gold companies etc It  has been give aways. In your recent memory you have the financing of Motilal to the proposed financing of the Marriott  and in our budget the taxing our people to 4 billion to subsidize failures in the sugar industry, it has been on give aways.

 

You cannot have your cake and it it. One must address each of these on their merit. The sale of this asset is not explained and it it was and I missed it I would greatly appreciate you update my lacking.

FM
Originally Posted by PRK:

Mr B_Gurd,

 

You seem not to be aware that this is a sale from one government to another. There goes your capitalist pretense. The Chinese companies are state-owned corporations acting like private ones. They call it state capitalism. Please be informed before you make stupid comments. Do you doubt that Jagdeo and Ramoutar changed the rules in Parliament to benefit Bobby? Is that conspiracy theory? Is it conspiracy theory that Ramoutar is a surrogate for Jagdeo? Have you missed how Jagdeo and Ramoutar rigged the PPP election? 

----------

 

That's a good point gurl. The government seems desperate because the Norway funds are not being released. The WB/Norway no doubt got the message that transparency and accountability are serious problems in Guyana.

 

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
Originally Posted by PRK:

Mr B_Gurd our capitalist friend see the link:

 

http://www.china-cdt.com/en/AB...RODUCTION/46465.html

Now this is more in the sprit of proper posting integrity, wait for verification before making making assumptions.


Don't be a dunce, realize that the Chinese govt invest in the US economy by being the largest buyer of treasuries. If you don't know this then ask Lucas.

 

You will note, ie if you can read, that I stated that whether the datang was govt owned or not was irrelevant. What is relevant is that the gog divest itself from private ventures. The job of govt is to govern not run businesses. If you want to live in a country that has govt running private companies you are welcome to migrate to China. ahhahahhahahahahaah

The problem here is it is not their private inheritance, they are dealing with but the nations asset. We cannot pay our old age pensioner more than 40 a month and this is 2 million guaranteed why not tag  the increase of our these needy people to this income source? But they need the slush fund and that is the point!

 

In your world you would forgoe development and create a welfare state. However I believe that govt should continue to work on upgrading infrastructure rather than take the short term politically motivated goal of increasing pensions that many not be sustainable should the economy turn south.

------------------------

 

If you look keenly you will see poor choice of infrastructure and poorly done work. Just so happen PPP infrastructure is not long-term.  

FM

DRUGGIE: "Don't be a dunce, realize that the Chinese govt invest in the US economy by being the largest buyer of treasuries. If you don't know this then ask Lucas."

---------------------

 

It is not only the Chinese government which buys US treasury bills. Most central banks have to because of the liquid nature of T-bills and the fact that there is no viable alternative. You must understand that it is a two-way flow. The US opened its market and bought Chinese goods by paying them with T-bills. Had it not been for America, China would have been a backwater today. BTW, notice American corporations are bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US south?

FM
Originally Posted by Tar_K:

DRUGGIE: "Don't be a dunce, realize that the Chinese govt invest in the US economy by being the largest buyer of treasuries. If you don't know this then ask Lucas."

---------------------

 

It is not only the Chinese government which buys US treasury bills. Most central banks have to because of the liquid nature of T-bills and the fact that there is no viable alternative. You must understand that it is a two-way flow. The US opened its market and bought Chinese goods by paying them with T-bills. Had it not been for America, China would have been a backwater today. BTW, notice American corporations are bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US south?

---------------------

 

Tell that joker. How are you doing BTW? When are you coming back to GUY? 

FM
Originally Posted by Tar_K:

DRUGGIE: "Don't be a dunce, realize that the Chinese govt invest in the US economy by being the largest buyer of treasuries. If you don't know this then ask Lucas."

---------------------

 

It is not only the Chinese government which buys US treasury bills. Most central banks have to because of the liquid nature of T-bills and the fact that there is no viable alternative. You must understand that it is a two-way flow. The US opened its market and bought Chinese goods by paying them with T-bills. Had it not been for America, China would have been a backwater today. BTW, notice American corporations are bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US south?

 

Now you ketch sense. If the US govt allows the Chinese govt to buy its treasuries and finance US debt, why the big hoopla about a Chinese govt owned company buying shares in Gecom??? Do you also know how many other US companies Datang have shares in????? 

FM
Originally Posted by BGurd_See:
Originally Posted by Tar_K:

DRUGGIE: "Don't be a dunce, realize that the Chinese govt invest in the US economy by being the largest buyer of treasuries. If you don't know this then ask Lucas."

---------------------

 

TK: "It is not only the Chinese government which buys US treasury bills. Most central banks have to because of the liquid nature of T-bills and the fact that there is no viable alternative. You must understand that it is a two-way flow. The US opened its market and bought Chinese goods by paying them with T-bills. Had it not been for America, China would have been a backwater today. BTW, notice American corporations are bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US south?"

 

"Now you ketch sense. If the US govt allows the Chinese govt to buy its treasuries and finance US debt, why the big hoopla about a Chinese govt owned company buying shares in Gecom??? Do you also know how many other US companies Datang have shares in?????" 

However, if I were doing policy I would not have sold these lucrative shares to one foreign buyer. This was a good source of long-term revenues for govt. This is also an example of a brownfield investment. Where are the Chinese greenfield investments into new factorie and plants in Guyana? This is nothing new...just a second hand transaction. Hey...you guys can celebrate how much you want and compare US Chinese investments with Guyana's.

FM
Originally Posted by Tar_K:
 

However, if I were doing policy I would not have sold these lucrative shares to one foreign buyer. This was a good source of long-term revenues for govt. This is also an example of a brownfield investment. Where are the Chinese greenfield investments into new factorie and plants in Guyana? This is nothing new...just a second hand transaction. Hey...you guys can celebrate how much you want and compare US Chinese investments with Guyana's.

Don't be facetious, the shares were up for sale to anyone who wanted them, there were no takers other than datang. And why do you believe these shares are lucrative? They have only been showing 7% return in the past few years, beyond that in the past they were doing really bad. It has only been "lucrative" recently. 

FM

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