Because "pure" Aryan blood must be preserved.  

These Indo KKK, and those who pretend not to be, dig themselves into holes so deep.

Now imagine how much better it would have been for them to simply acknowledge that you were right in terms of the older and more rural Indian populations, but to also state that these attitudes are more complex, and are evolving, and are less present among younger Indians.

And also that Jagdeo (who may or may not be a racist) and Bobby (who also may or may not be a racist), rather than working on a solution, merely throw flames on the fire of ethnic fear (AMONG BOTH INDIANS and AFRICANs) for their own narrow selfish interests.

The PPP played race and generated a higher turn out, not only among Indians/Amerindians, but also among Africans/mixed  who feared what this would mean for them, if the PPP had won.  As the mixed population grows playing the race card has become riskier.

Well the results of the 1964 election shows that more Guyanese DID NOT want to live under the communist Jagan than otherwise.

And please don't claim that he wasn't full bore communist.  He endorsed Burnham's nonsensical concentration of the economy under state control, even though Burnham used this fact to entrench his dictatorship.  The PPP wa shardly objective  when we compare their loving embrace of the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan with their distaste for the USA's invasion of Vietnam. 

In any case the PPP claimed to be a Marxist Leninist party and said so in WRITING.  That is full bore communism.

I know Cheddi was a communist. That is not in doubt given. Every thing about his views reflect the opinions communist scholars of the era. Indeed he was treated with contempt for his beliefs and ousted from office. It is not because the US did not care about democracy. They did not care about the possibility of a Soviet style vanguard party system. It is the reason they abandoned Burnham when he defected to the ideology.

Hi VVP,

No one denies African racism inclusive of the institutionalized brand under Burnham. However, today we see a moderate black president forming a coalition with indians and an end to the black racially inspired violence of the 60's, 80's and so on.

But most of today's rural indian is still largely the same, unaccepting of blacks and even indians like you ("town c...lie" in their books). Look how they treat Moses, Ramjattan, Roopnarine, TK etc. Even our resident racist "baseman" was appalled at the way indians in india treat those of "lower" caste or darker color. If they do this to their own, then will they ever see blacks as equal human beings? Until indians address their own racism then we go nowhere. 

I have similar stories to yours. In high school there was an "indian" group. A few indian guys who limed with us endured their wrath for keeping company with black man. My poor indian friends were labelled "town c..lies" and treated as a lesser form of life by these children of rich rural indians.

I am trying to make the point that there is racism as a world view and racism in reaction to that world view. Now some may say it is merely labeling or classification for leveraging blame. I  am not doing that. I am seeking rational explanations for why there is this persisting schism among our peoples.

At some point one has to come up with a rational explanation as to why we are adversarial ethnic based cultures in the same social space and over two centuries are coming to a close and we have not build up a summoning creed that can categorize us as a people from a nation state sharing some common symbols and national identity.

We seem to be perpetually on a path of highlighting difference without forging commonality. Our nation cannot prosper in this state of protracted low level internecine warfare.

Why are there people like Cobra, or Ugli or even Nehru and baseman? There is a disconnect in their brains that they are dealing with other humans and every non indian are the "others". And we are the back ward others, cassava eaters, piwari drinkers, rapist, pillagers and every concept of worse than that they can conceive.

There is no easy way to put conceptualize their view. Stupidity may be an explanation and while some are of the ilk of  Cobra. dumber than dumb;  the template is not a universal fit.  Baseman for example, is driven by more than ignorance. That fellow believes god made him perfect. I am hard pressed for someone to give me an explanation that obviates that that culture subsidize this belief system.

My opinion - the indian is inherently racist for whatever reason (vestiges of the caste system, religious, or other). This will explain your cobras, basemans, brahmin susie etc. Of course this does not apply to all indians, in my own experience I find christian and muslim indians to be more tolerant.

I do not think the majority of indo guyanese are interested in a national identity, they see it as a denial of their indian roots and culture. Again - my honest opinion only and I welcome the barbs and arrows coming my way from the indo kkk.

this is a very unfortunate statement . . . words have meaning bai

"The Indian"?? . . . and i know u fully understand what "inherently" means

u doing exactly what baseman dem are doing . . . just flipping the script

smfh

Shaitaan and I had a lengthy exchange about the different forms of ethnic affiliation adopted by the Creole (African, Mixed, and Portuguese) and the Indians.

Creoles have an identity based primarily on nationality, and on culture, with ethnicity, and skin color playing secondary roles.  Portuguese have shown no more interest in affiliating with Brazil, despite obvious historic connections.  Afro Guyanese have no real interest in Africa.  To the extent that they have a trans national identity, it is linked to the nearby Caribbean islands. 

Creoles don't see their culture as from a single source, and in fact are quite proud of its diversity, which represents a synthesis of different cultures, operating on a continuum.  An example will be the Saturday night Kwe Kwe, and the Sunday Anglican wedding.  Both part and parcel of being creole.

Indians are ethnically exclusive, as indeed are Chinese. They bond around their ethnicity, with nationality being secondary.  Whereas Creoles seek out a Guyanese identity, which is tied to a shared culture and value systems, to the Indian Guyana is a piece of real estate and a passport.  In their view Guyana is land space shared by several "nations" each focused on their own issues.

So we have a problem when a Creole says that Indians refuse to be "Guyanese" and focus exclusively on being "Indian".   The Indian feels that the Creole is forcing a cultural identity on him, and a debased one at that, and he wants to keep his own. 

Ironically most Indians are quite creolized, though they will never admit it, because Guyanese of different ethnicities engage each other in the Creole space.  This is apparently also true in Surinam, where almost every one knows that srnan tongo, the creole language, and use it as a vernacular, in addition to Dutch. 

The notion that the creole culture is a synthesis of many cultures, quite fluid, and existing on a continuum, and has in fact already absorbed elements of Indian culture, escapes him.  To the Indian creole culture is diluted and debased, and in fact evidence that Africans have no culture.

Let us look at any Guyanese cultural performance. 

The Africans will perform music and dance with Guyanese origins, even if having strong African influences.  They have no interest in performing what they think is Ghanaian, Nigerian, or Congolese, because their cultural identity is rooted in Guyana.

The Indians will perform either classical Indian dance, or Bollywood.  The more indigenous forms of Indo Guyanese culture, interestingly enough fairly accessible to non Indians, will usually not be performed.  They build their identity based on India, and view Guyana only as a place where they happen to be born.  They remain uncomfortable in finding common space with other groups.

So here is the result.  Creole culture then monopolizes Guyanese cultural space.  How many Indo Guyanese folks songs do people know, and they do exist?

So its a bit simplistic to say that Indians are more racist.  They are more ethnically exclusive, and that becomes problematic in a multi ethnic society.

Indians need to engage among themselves as to how they can reconcile their need to be a people with sharp ethnic boundaries, while operating in harmony with other ethnic groups.

An example of the ethnic boundaries is how the dougla is regarded. If a dougla wishes to self identify as "black", no one will stop him, and no one will think that strange.  It is very unusual for a dougla to be accepted as being purely Indian however. 

Africans don't have the sharp ethnic boundaries that Indians have, and so can more easily absorb those of part African ancestry as being fully African, if that is what they chose.

So we have the tensions in Guyana, which aren't just about politics.

Of course the cockroaches will again scatter because they wish to keep this topic under cover, or they will try to paint this discussion as racist. 

FACT.  This is the most important topic, because every aspect of Guyanese life has been distorted by the ethnic tensions of the past 55 years.

They were given an opportunity by Danyael to discuss this, and yet they refuse to, but because this is the core of Guyana's malady we are still talking 6 pages later.  And it will popup again and again.

And in fact there is nothing inherent which says that Indians and Africans cannot get on.  They do in Grenada, St Vincent, St Lucia, Guadeloupe, Martinique and Jamaica.  

In fact in Jamaica more hostility is directed to the Chinese.  Jamaicans differentiate between those Indians who didn't arrive as indentures, and who remain alien, and the descendants of the indentures. 

Indo Jamaicans, who arrived as indentures, are embedded in the Jamaican culture, and in fact some claim even brought with them the chillum pipe to smoke ganja, and inspired Rasta dread locks.  Curry goat is as Jamaican as it gets.

So there is something specific about Guyana, Trinidad, and Suriname.

I am in agreement that the culture of virulent racism that perpetuates the schism is a manufactured culture. It is one of the reasons we have to be proactive in the society to make official processes transparently clear that they are race neutral. We also have to begin to establish systems of recrimination and condemnation for any in the society displaying this odious behavior.

We do not even have the merest of repudiation to reporters or government officials who are racially objectionable ( or sexist) in the society. Jagdeo should have been made to apologize to the nation for lying that he was married and he needed to be held accountable for his behavior to his wife. Berri Ramsarran should have been fired forthwith. Anil should never be heard of again and Benschop former mother-in-law and Mark Ramotar should never write or be permitted on any news outlet ever.

We have to develop ways to incur a penalty on the racist. There should not be the kind of nasty bigotry on going here on this site. Granted it is hard to police but when Cobra speaks to black people supposedly deficiencies it should not be allowed to stay. As long as the intent is to presume any by  by virtue of race or gender or sexual orientation; it should not be allowed. We need to self police if the moderators are too lazy.

If you are going to judge an entire group of the people based on the wrong-doings of a few of its members then you are supporting the same thing you claim to be fighting against.

We are judging Africans and Indians and are saying that ethnic suspicion, and institutional racism has been something that BOTH have been guilty of, and that BOTH have suffered from.

The reason for the focus on Indians is because the PPP is screaming about ethnic cleansing, when they hardly innocent on this.  You and others love to wail about Burnham, and what he did to Indans.  No credible African intellectual disputes that you have a point here, and in fact both Itaname and I have conceded this.  So we have  no need to debate African insutional racism, and ethnic exclusion.

However a discussion of Indian racism, and its root causes is considered a taboo subject. Now one would have thought that the intelligent Indians here, not you, but people like TK, VVP,VishMahabir, Kari, and even the racist baseman, would have offered an opinion. 

We get 6 pages of people behaving like cockroaches, scurrying around trying to avoid visibility. 

Until there is an intelligent analysis of the root causes of ethnic insecurity, which then leads to institutional racism, Guyana will remain mired in poverty, and its leadership will continue to be corrupt, incompetent, and ineffective.

Given that the African contribution to this mess has been well discussed, but the Indian contribution hasnt been, now is the time for a focus on this.

I can assure you that the African ethnic insecurity dillemma is based on their perception that Indians are racist, and will use their economic, and political power to exclude, and in fact Indians did just that between 1992-2015.  So this is a FACT, nor a mere perception.

I know. But yuh tink these bigots think that way. Dem should be ashamed and confounded.

Dem start to show dem weaknesses from dem own pontificates.

Only yesterday, I was reminded about the demons people have in dem.

The reason why I have called out the moderate, presumably non bigoted Indians on GNI, VVP, VishMahabir, TK, Kari, and Chief, and ignored the bigots is that the bigots (inclusive of Jagdeo) scream their putrid filth because they think that they are speaking on behalf of the ENTIRE Indian population.  This isnt to say that these moderates agree with them, but their silence is interpreted as consent.

So we have a situation where the bigots like Jagdeo then attack those who attack their bigotry by screaming that those who do so are being anti Indian.

There is a need for a "not in my name" movement among Indians, along the lines of that headed by Andaiye, David Hinds, Eusi Kwayana, and others, when some Africans were championing bigotted statements to the effect that Indo Guyanese do not have a right to Guyana, and backing this up with violence. 

In Guyana the Indians who openly express their opposition to Indian bigotry are slammed by other Indians, even including the socalled non bigots.   It is therefore the BOLD Indian who condemns anti black bigotry, while others either engage in bigotry towards blacks, or remains silent, maybe fearful of being ostracized.

In 2015 African bigots exist, but they will be QUIET as their putrid filth will be OVERWHELMINGLY be rejected by the African leaders with credibility, thus also by the African population at large.  They are SHAMED into silence and they know that they do not speak on behalf of the African population at large.  Its been a long time since any one has described Guyana as the "House which Africans built, where others are mere tenants".

Seignet with every post of yours you strengthen what caribj, redux, itaname, cain, and danyael think of you.

So continue to scream and chant for blacks to be cursed by God.  You are a walking example of anti black bigotry.

Poor choice of words on my part in my hasty reply re "the indian". I do maintain that racism comes naturally to the rural indian, primarily Hindus. Not a social scientist, but that has been my experience and every Guyanese has their anecdotal evidence of the same. There is something seriously wrong with them, when they exclude even their own indians who seek to blend in a multi racial society.

How so? Were you in the church bathroom looking at the mirror and seeing a serpent hissing back at you?

It's not a "few of its members". Racism by indo Guyanese is practiced on a significant scale. You all know what you say behind closed doors while smiling at black man in the US. You vilify any Indian who breaks away from being a tribal primitive. That is the practice, to the extent that the PPP can be open about their racism without any sanction from you all, lurking in the background yukking it up while a PPP minister's daughter is cussing out black folks on facebook.

Afro Guyanese have moved on. The PPP tried to incite Granger and company to violence against indians during the last elections, but there was no racial violence. They are still trying to sabotage and destabilize, but to no effect. A primarily black government is now trying to rescue indian rice farmers left in the dirt by the PPP.

Yes, we have moved on. Now you all need to do the same, and it begins with a discussion. The PPP practiced institutionalized racism for 23 years (Burnham's PNC was 28) without a peep from indians. No jobs for blacks at indian firms. No jobs for black contractors. You just laugh and mock black people. When Kissoon and others point out your racism he is told he is not an Indian. Same for Moses. Yes, you have indian racism in your midst, so quit denying it and get on with addressing it.

He took a loooong dump, it curled back up and bit him in  the ass. He then jumped up from the seat, he looked back into the bowl and called out, "Heyyyy Cobra"

Good post

Of course you are asking a rhetorical question.  VVP, VishMahabir and Kari are too scared to be lambasted as self hating dirty Indians.  So will either remain silent, or pretend that you claim that blacks cannot also be racists, even though you have said so on many occassions.  Or they will simply call you anti Indian.......this as they ignore the Indo KKK set.

TK is still working on a regression analysis to tell us what we already know, and that is that Africans, and Indians vote race, with similar behavior to a lesser degree also visible among mixed identified and Amerindian voters.

Chief today stepped up to the plate and condemned an instance of Indian bigotry.  It appears that this seems to be an act of courage, given that he is a public figure (he advertises for job candidates in this forum).  So we can add him to Riffraff, Gilbakka and Mitwah.

Seignet is trying to convince some Nigerian juju to haunt Guyanese blacks, but he needs to know that if he doesnt handle it right the demons might go after him.  In fact some Guyanese do trace part of their African heritage to Nigeria/Benin, and so the jujus mightnt want to attack their own people.  Buxton is a strong obeah place, as is West Coast Berbice, and many Lindeners have their roots there.  Seignet doesnt know who he is playing with.

Just that Guyanese Blacks feel they and they alone have rights to rule Guyana.  Indians are un-welcomed.  Coolies are welcome to cut cane, shy paddy, fork dutty and cater to the Afro master.  Content with that, you are welcome to live in Guyana.

Suh yuh recruiting. Doan fuget it was the Putagees taht stick it to yuh forefathers. Like yuh forget the cent bread riots and the angel gabriel riots.

As for the demon thing-it is not curses my friend. It is the spirit that is in you that spews ur hate for East Indians. You and all ur kind.

The Indigenous People assign spirits for every thing under heaven on earth. Suh do the Nigerians.

Can you explain to me why Afro Guyanese have this attitude, as you describe, and other Jamaicans don't.  I know that you aren't going to tell me that Guyanese blacks are more hostile than Jamaicans.

In addition your victimology is really silly as you know full well that most of the wealth in Guyana is in the hands of Indians. So spare me your crap that Indians are only allowed to do hard work.  And for those who are confined to low paid hard work, please don't tell me that their lives were any better prior to May 11th.

Your racism is blinding you.

The Portuguese didn't rule Guyana over the past 23 years.  The PPP did.  Few blacks in Guyana know or care of the anti Portuguese riots of over 100 years ago.

Continue to plan juju for black people.  When your skin breaks out and disaster happens to you, you will then remember the harm which plotted to others using devils and other sorcery.

Nigerian Christians are not juka people. Infact, they trying to offer deliverance to the lost souls. If Guyana has juka people, then dem spirits dat is bad no ass. Perhaps, that is the explanation for their ways. I wouldn't mess with that. In Rosignol, I grew up with a very close friend from the time I met him kindergarten until he passed away. He would tell people who knew us that he has a brother in Canada-he was referring to me. 

Anyway, he went to Suriname. I doan know what craziness he got into over there. My villagers told me he hooked up with some juka people. He returned to Guyana and was in the habit of biting off serpent head.

Not until the pastor preached about demonic spirits in people did I realize the power of such spirits. My friend Walter Arthur, ventured into the wrong place. And the demons took his life.

That is the work of the devil-he cheat and steal, rob and murder.

Yuh tink dem thiefman dem including the PPPites gat juka demons in dem.

Examine yuhself, bro. Hating Cooolie people is a demonic force in yuh.

My essay fuh the day.

Doan worry wid Cain, he claim European status. You and I are Black. Suh, I doan wey de rass yuh going wid this coolie bashing.

Put ur energies to good wuk. Let u and I guh to Guyana and do some good fuh some poor black folks.

Atleast yuh know where I stand and I know u too good. We can make a good team.

Wah yuh sey? 

BTW baseman Joey said that the PPP completely replaced blacks with Indians during its 23 years.

That looks to me as if INDIANS want to rule Guyana 100%.

Nigerians know all about juju, so continuing to play that in your plot to bring disaster for Guyanese blacks.  The juju might jump on YOU instead.

I have been to Nigerian churches and the jujus were quite active. 

Careful you know what you are playing with.   You might end up like your fellow racists Cobra, Rama, and Yuji, cursed with an unending appetite for PNC poles.  These guys spend all night touching their toes and being ravished by PNC male equipment.

Inherent racism.  Jamaica is different because Indians are a miniscule segment, so no real political competition.  Trini has a Afro majority but significant Indian population, so Afro racism is 2nd to Guyana.  Afros are a racist people.  Only Black Lives Matter!!!

Don't hide behind the computer. Go to Guyana and help fight for the blacks.

I know baseman that you don't think that calling people savage, lazy, dirty, illiterate, criminal, and totaling interested in living off others is racist.  Others tend to think that it is.

YOU think that it is racist to tell you how racist YOU are.

Your hero Granger is doing that, and is being paid well.

My role is to expose your fellow ethnics when they engage in racism.

Mitwah is Afro, so what you saying?

Burnham legalizing obeah put the curses on yuh people. There are alot of African preachers in Guyana trying to exorcise the demonic hold on the country. I think Africans know the challenges-they know the culture from where the African were exported from.

Find a church and get them cooolie hating demons out of yuh.

I never said that, I said Afros are racists, tell me where my examples fall apart!!

Hahahahahaha! you are confirming that you are insane. Learn from Mandella.

Serious bro, all dem indo KKK boys seying the same thing over and over-limited. But man, yuh have a concoction of anti-Indian stories. Yuh have a lying spirit, that is a demon-one a Forbes jhumbies.

yuh loosing ground-yuh getting vulgar now. That is the demon.

You pelt some nasty cuss pon another thread (f word, cun* word), riff raff even had to delete one of your posts. Demon in you too, no?