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FM
Former Member

What 'are so many of them doing?' 95 million not in US labor force

Big difference between the job numbers and perception:

The November jobs report looked pretty good on the surface except for one number that popped off the page: 95 million.

That's the number of Americans now counted as not in the labor force, a historic high that has confounded economists and policymakers. The total — 95.06 million to be more exact — has been rising consistently but surged by a gaudy 446,000 last month.

The jump occurred as the U.S. economy added 178,000 jobs and the headline unemployment rate dropped sharply.

Explaining the consistent increase in those leaving the labor force is complicated, with factors divided between an aging and rapidly retiring workforce, a skills gap that leaves job openings unfilled, and the nettlesome problem of too many people who find it's just easier to collect welfare and other transfer payments rather than go back to work.

"WTF are so many of them doing?" Peter Boockvar, chief market analyst at The Lindsey Group, said in a note after the nonfarm payrolls report. Boockvar used a crude online expression that nicely sums up the continued frustration with America's shrinking labor force.

In a subsequent interview, he acknowledged the issue is many pronged and poses a long-term obstacle for economic growth.

"It's a combination. There's no question a lot of them are retirees," Boockvar said. "No one wants to say, 'I want to get fired and sit on my butt.' But when people do lose their jobs, they're not being incentivized enough to go back to work compared to the benefits they get by not being at work."

Indeed, the U.S. saw an explosion in benefits during the Great Recession that has receded only mildly during the recovery.

For example, the level of those enrolled in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program — food stamps — has remained elevated even with an economic expansion that is nearly 7 ½ years old. SNAP recipients totaled 33.5 million in 2009, the year the recession ended. In 2016, the number is at 45.3 million. The government shelled out $74 billion in benefits last year, about double the level of 2008.

The 'silver tsunami of retirees'

Taken together, the numbers show that there's more to meets the eye than a headline unemployment rate of 4.6 percent, the lowest since August 2007. Because that number ignores those not in the labor force, as well as workers at part-time jobs for economic reasons, it doesn't tell the whole story. A broader jobless measure is at 9.3 percent.

"I have a problem with people saying we're at full employment," said Dan North, chief economist at Euler Hermes North America, a trade credit insurance company. "We have a record 95 million people sitting on the sidelines. To me, that's hardly full employment."

The structural issue is what North calls the "silver tsunami of retirees" or those 10,000 baby boomers a day leaving the workforce and heading for retirement.

But that's only one more part of the problem. Another big issue is the skills gap for employers struggling to find workers to fill positions.

Job openings in September were at 5.5 million, though hires were at just 5.1 million, according to the Labor Department.

"Employers have lots of jobs open but can't find the right people to fill them. That's certainly a part of it as well," North said.

Companies are trying to be creative in that respect. Some strategies they are employing include reducing prerequisites for jobs — allowing, say, associate degree holders for jobs that formerly required bachelor's or master's degrees — while also focusing on job training and flexible hours.

That carries its own risk by allowing workers with a steeper learning curve on the job. But the current labor force condition is mandating innovative solutions, and compromises.

"It's a great thing for the candidate that's getting an opportunity, especially for the millennial who's interested in career growth and job changes every couple of years. For the employers, it's good in a sense to seek a new perspective from the labor pool," said Amy Glaser, senior vice president at Adecco Staffing, a recruitment and workforce solutions firm. "From a change management perspective, it's really difficult for the employer. It requires a lot of patience, creativity and open minds to look at things."

Glaser believes the various factors at play aren't going to go away anytime soon.

"There's not a quick fix," she said.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02...-us-labor-force.html

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For example, the level of those enrolled in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program — food stamps — has remained elevated even with an economic expansion that is nearly 7 ½ years old. SNAP recipients totaled 33.5 million in 2009, the year the recession ended. In 2016, the number is at 45.3 million. The government shelled out $74 billion in benefits last year, about double the level of 2008. 

FM
Drugb posted:

This jackass is counting dead people, retirees, students, babies an slackers like the sakiwinki man.

95.3 Mil is not 9.3% of the employable population.  He looked at the labor participation rate and adjusted for those not in the workforce.  He also looked at it relative to history!

FM
skeldon_man posted:

For example, the level of those enrolled in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program — food stamps — has remained elevated even with an economic expansion that is nearly 7 ½ years old. SNAP recipients totaled 33.5 million in 2009, the year the recession ended. In 2016, the number is at 45.3 million. The government shelled out $74 billion in benefits last year, about double the level of 2008. 

SNAP has remained high because the GOP refuse to allow the minimum wage to be increased to $15/hour.  MOST people who get SNAP WORK.

Now the GOP want to deny the minimum wage increase, and scale back SNAP, so they invent the lie that only lazy people who refuse to work benefit from this.

FM
ba$eman posted:
Drugb posted:

This jackass is counting dead people, retirees, students, babies an slackers like the sakiwinki man.

95.3 Mil is not 9.3% of the employable population.  He looked at the labor participation rate and adjusted for those not in the workforce.  He also looked at it relative to history!

There are 320 million people in this country.   There are those under 18, others between 18-30 who are in some of schooling.  The USA has the LARGEST incarcerated population, in the world. Yes LARGER than China, which has 4X the population, and is a totalitarian nation.  Those people aren't in the labor force.

Then there are women, and increasing numbers of men, who aren't in the labor force because they have to take care of family members, kids, and increasingly parents.

Then there are retirees and also disabled people.

So that 95 million is BOGUS.

Why don't you try this one out. At the end of Clinton's era 133 million people were working. At the end of Bush's era a mere 134 million were working.  AT the present time 145 million have jobs.

Clearly then the biggest failure in job creation was Bush.

I wonder why is it that you never want to discuss who was president between Jan 2001 and Jan 2009.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
caribny posted:
ba$eman posted:
Drugb posted:

This jackass is counting dead people, retirees, students, babies an slackers like the sakiwinki man.

95.3 Mil is not 9.3% of the employable population.  He looked at the labor participation rate and adjusted for those not in the workforce.  He also looked at it relative to history!

There are 320 million people in this country.   There are those under 18, others between 18-30 who are in some of schooling.  The USA has the LARGEST incarcerated population, in the world. Yes LARGER than China, which has 4X the population, and is a totalitarian nation.  Those people aren't in the labor force.

Then there are women, and increasing numbers of men, who aren't in the labor force because they have to take care of family members, kids, and increasingly parents.

Then there are retirees and also disabled people.

So that 95 million is BOGUS.

Why don't you try this one out. At the end of Clinton's era 133 million people were working. At the end of Bush's era a mere 134 million were working.  AT the present time 145 million have jobs.

Clearly then the biggest failure in job creation was Bush.

I wonder why is it that you never want to discuss who was president between Jan 2001 and Jan 2009.

They are bogus because [the learned] Caribj says so!  Banna, go ress-up.  You have NO credibility.  The welfare roles doubled between 2008 and 2016!  That will be one of Obama's blotches along with Black deprivation giving rise to groups like Black Lives Matter!

Imagine, the Iranians are dancing in the streets, the Cubans are dancing in the streets and the Blacks [of America) and dying in the streets!

FM
ba$eman posted:
.

They are bogus because [the learned] Caribj says so!  Banna, go ress-up.  You have NO credibility.  The welfare roles doubled between 2008 and 2016!  That will be one of Obama's blotches along with Black deprivation giving rise to groups like Black Lives Matter!

Imagine, the Iranians are dancing in the streets, the Cubans are dancing in the streets and the Blacks [of America) and dying in the streets!

.

But you are a racist idiot who cannot even show facts to back your arguments.

In 2000 133 million were working. 8 years later, even as the labor force expanded only 1 million were are working. Now 8 years later 10 million MORE are working.

Yet you scream Obama when you should instead be indicting George Bush.

Blacks are NOT worse off now than they were under Bush. 

And if the Democrats are more compassionate so allow WORKING poor people to feed their kids better then that is GOOD.

In fact if the minimum wage is increased to $15 then FEWER will be eligible for or need SNAP.

Do you prefer the massive hunger that was occurring under Bush, or that occurs in GOP led states like Mississippi.

BTW why are most of the poor states GOP run?

And with Trump planning to INCREASE stop and frisk, which will lead to MORE adverse police encounters Black Lives Matter will be needed MORE!

FM
Last edited by Former Member

Also baseman in NYC fewer than 400 have been killed for this year. Even if we assume 250 were blacks, with 2 million blacks living in NYC to scream that blacks are "dying in the streets" seems silly.

Now why don't you deal with the fact that Trump supporters are attacking blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and those perceived to be Muslim and Herr Donald Hitler Trump is NOT doing a thing to stop it, even as he rants about Hamilton actors.

FM
ba$eman posted:
Drugb posted:

This jackass is counting dead people, retirees, students, babies an slackers like the sakiwinki man.

95.3 Mil is not 9.3% of the employable population.  He looked at the labor participation rate and adjusted for those not in the workforce.  He also looked at it relative to history!

Employable and those looking for employment are two different measures. For some folks it does not pay to be employed after childcare and other expenses are considered. In addition he is counting all carib and d2 brothers in jail as well as the generational welfare recipients.  This guy is using quackery methods to raise hysteria. 

FM
Drugb posted:
.. In addition he is counting all carib and d2 brothers in jail as well as the generational welfare recipients. .

GNI once again lives up to its reputation for promoting itself as a black hating site.

FM

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