I've read about Windrush particularly as it relates to Jamaican immigrants deported on that boat decades ago. Recently one guy related how he"s suffering in Jamaica and wants to return to Britain but this embassy is ignoring him.

Gilbakka posted:

I've read about Windrush particularly as it relates to Jamaican immigrants deported on that boat decades ago.

And that's the key issue that affects Guyanese who also came to the UK. Because they are not Jamaican and did not come on the Windrush nobody took any notice of their plight. With Guyana becoming independent in 1966 that just complicated matters. But luckily there were Guyanese willing to stand up and be counted as victims of the same hostile policies.

Mr.T posted:

Anyhow, things have now been largely resolved, and I received a letter of thanks from the current UK Home Secretary Sajid Javid, plus a certificate handed to me in person by the Mayor of the borough I life in, in an official ceremony on the 12th of July, on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen. So I am well chuffed, and can now get back to my "normal" life.

Kudos Mr.T,

great respect to folks who make the world a better place.

Good to know that you are doing great in that neck of the woods, welcome once again.

Welcome back.  I was at a meeting in Brixton where this was discussed in the Carribbean community living there.  Did we cross paths?

A book will be published soon “Memory, Migration, and De colonization in the Caribbean and Beyond”, focusing on the Empire Windrush.  44 Guyanese were on the voyage on June 21st, 1948.

Good job Mr T...shame on those South Africans, after all the support they got from Guyana and other Caribbean islands

It was kind of funny when I went to one of these meetings of West Indians. I was the only mixed race person there. But coming to think of it, that shouldn't have been a surprise. Mixed race kids were hard to run into when we were kids. Mixed race kids only really showed up when we migrants started dating the local white girls.

Mr.T posted:

The British MP Chuka Ammuna is a case in point.

I think you mean West African.  Yes many of the Nigerians in the UK used to boast that they "sold off all the lazy and stupid people to the whites".

Curious though. Why does it appear as if only West Indians were involved? Why not South Asians who were also migrating to the UK in large numbers during that period?

Yes this Windrush scandal has being going on for quite a while.  I suspect that it was Brexit  (which made the UK gov't more sensitive about its global image now as it steps away from the EU) that the issue became open. I was reading about this in the Jamaican papers from at least 2011.  I also saw BBC programming on it quite a while back.

Ray posted:

Good job Mr T...shame on those South Africans, after all the support they got from Guyana and other Caribbean islands

Its not South Africans as I don't think that any are MPs.  It must be the West Africans.  The name that was mentioned is someone with a Nigerian father.

And most of these West African MPs are Tories.

Indeed, correction due. I should have typed Africans, not South Africans. There has been at least one South Afican MP called Paul Boeteng. He is black on the outside, but pure white underneath.

caribny posted:

Mr.T posted:

The British MP Chuka Ammuna is a case in point.

Curious though. Why does it appear as if only West Indians were involved? Why not South Asians who were also migrating to the UK in large numbers during that period?

It's a case of West Indians being prepared to stand up and make their voices heard. People from Asia and Africa were also affected, but it's up to them to fight their own corner. They sure haven't shown their support or joined in the fight against the UK government to get things sorted. So it can reasonably assumed that they don't have the same numbers of people who are affected.

caribny posted:

Mr.T posted:

The British MP Chuka Ammuna is a case in point.

I think you mean West African.  Yes many of the Nigerians in the UK used to boast that they "sold off all the lazy and stupid people to the whites".

Curious though. Why does it appear as if only West Indians were involved? Why not South Asians who were also migrating to the UK in large numbers during that period?

Yes this Windrush scandal has being going on for quite a while.  I suspect that it was Brexit  (which made the UK gov't more sensitive about its global image now as it steps away from the EU) that the issue became open. I was reading about this in the Jamaican papers from at least 2011.  I also saw BBC programming on it quite a while back.

There were others involved.  Here is the breakdown by country on board Empire Windrush.

Mr.T posted:

Indeed, correction due. I should have typed Africans, not South Africans. There has been at least one South Afican MP called Paul Boeteng. He is black on the outside, but pure white underneath.

Well his mother was white and his father was Ghanaian.  Don't see any connection to South Africa.

Mr.T posted:

 

It's a case of West Indians being prepared to stand up and make their voices heard. People from Asia and Africa were also affected, but it's up to them to fight their own corner. They sure haven't shown their support or joined in the fight against the UK government to get things sorted. So it can reasonably assumed that they don't have the same numbers of people who are affected.

I suspect that IndoPaks don't have that problem as they are certainly well able to represent their interests.  Better in fact than are West Indians.  As often as they travel home to bring back wives if they had this problem it would have shown up long ago.

I also suspect that West Africans in the UK don't see themselves as needing West Indians to help them out.  Most of them arrived long after the Windrush era.

Prashad always found West African people, culture and food to be friendly and good. I don't know where the Carib got this stereotype from. Maybe Ian Smith told him.

Prashad posted:

Prashad always found West African people, culture and food to be friendly and good..

Of course you do. By your own admission you have the genes of three  black West African men in you, you wannabe coolie.

Iguana posted:

Prashad posted:

Prashad always found West African people, culture and food to be friendly and good..

Of course you do. By your own admission you have the genes of three  black West African men in you, you wannabe coolie.

three black men in him?

Prashad posted:

Prashad always found West African people, culture and food to be friendly and good. I don't know where the Carib got this stereotype from. Maybe Ian Smith told him.

What stereotypes are you referring to?

1. Most West Africans arrived in the UK after the 70s so were not part of the Windrush generation.  A small % were and it turns out that some also have this problem, but are too small a % of the overall UK based West African population to have much leverage with the leadership of that community.

 2.  A high % of the West Africans arrived as college educated people so often think that they are better than the West Indians, who tended to have a more blue collar background.  The UK isn't like the USA where one can migrate based on having close family members.  So most Africans came in based upon their credentials, so the blue collar element are less represented.  The West Indians arrived as colonials of the British Empire so prior to the early 70s a more blue collar migration was possible.

3. Just as some West Indians/Africans who migrate to the USA look down on black Americans so too do many West African migrants to the UK look down on Caribbean British blacks, hence the reaction to Mr. T to a problem that they didn't think had much to do with them. 

Sunil posted:

At present the government’s specialist Windrush taskforce cannot be used by those who came over as adults after 1973, even if they have lived in the UK for decades and their parents would fit the Windrush criteria.

This is a very important point. Some of those who were not yet 18 upon arrival, but came even as late as 1982 were given indefinite leave to remain. I know of at least one person who was 15 or 16 and came in late 1973, and whose situation has been sorted. Another person who came before that on his mother's passport is having a rough time proving that he did arrive before 1973.

Look at the bigger issue here. I think this is not the time to bring up windrush. Only a year ago the powers in Britain were flooding Britain with racist Eastern Europeans most of whom hated people of color.

Prashad posted:

Only a year ago the powers in Britain were flooding Britain with racist Eastern Europeans most of whom hated people of color.

Where did you read that rubbish?

Prashad posted:

Look at the bigger issue here. I think this is not the time to bring up windrush. Only a year ago the powers in Britain were flooding Britain with racist Eastern Europeans most of whom hated people of color.

What nonsense are you babbling.  This is a problem and it must be resolved.  Suppose that Trump's goons knocked on your door and ordered you to return to Granger Land?  Even as you show that you legally entered and remained in the USA.  People cannot allow gov'ts which are hostile to immigrants to willy nilly just unilaterally and illegally change the rules as they wish.

These people entered the UK legally and so have a right to remain there. Furthermore UK laws aren't like the USA. EVERYONE born in the USA is automatically a citizen, even if their parents are illegal immigrants.  With the UK if parents are considered illegal than so are the kids, even if UK born.  So this doesn't only impact Caribbean born people, but also those born in the UK.

Even though Trump gets blasted for his policies on migrants, they are still more liberal than those in the UK. The UK decision to vote for Brexit is primarily about immigration. The working committee tasked with Brexit issues doesn't even have a single non-white face in it.

caribny posted:

Iguana posted:

Prashad posted:

Prashad always found West African people, culture and food to be friendly and good..

Of course you do. By your own admission you have the genes of three  black West African men in you, you wannabe coolie.

three black men in him?

Yes. He posted that he had his DNA checked. Got his Ancestry.com kit in the mail, unfurled the wrapping, put his DNA sample in and mailed it. Got his results in the mail.

Put on his dhoti, indian headgear, giant red dot on his forehead, whipped up some indian food, real India Indian music playing loudly in the background and proudly opened up his ancestry.com results expecting to find he is descended from some Maharaja. Instead he got this -

25% Ghanian
50% Nigerian
15% Gambian
10% Madrasi

Mr.T posted:

Prashad posted:

Only a year ago the powers in Britain were flooding Britain with racist Eastern Europeans most of whom hated people of color.

Where did you read that rubbish?

I speak to English people every day. I know what is going on behind the scenes.  There is a battle going on between those who see Britain remaining in the EU because of white solidarity with fellow white brothers and sisters in Europe (these white English people who supported the European Union are blaming people of color for voting for Britain to leave the European Union so that they can get more opportunities for themselves in Britain.  and those who want to see Britain play an important part in a strong Commonwealth.  This Windrush at this time is like a person of color taking his Eastern European racist enemy's gun and shooting himself in the foot and feeling happy about it.

All I can say is that you speaking to the wrong sort of people who telling you nonsense. Eastern Europeans have been coming to the UK for years now. It's not the powers in Britain that is flooding the country with them, but the right to freedom of movement within the EU. 
These Eastern Europeans are also hard workers who don't complain much, if at all. Our WI and Asian brothers and sisters have had the country to themselves for years, and they started to stop working hard. So the productivity of the country is now one of the the lowest in the Western world. No wonder therefore that business owners prefer Eastern Europeans. The general public however believe that these migrants are putting pressure on public services, which have in fact been cut by the government over the last 8 years.
The Commonwealth story is another lie. The UK government only really interested in doing business with the US and China under freetrade agreements. That's why this whole Brexit thing is a headache. I can see an armed conflict coming up if things don't get resolved by the 19th of March 2019. I already planning to stock up on food etc. Having lived in Guyana and Suriname I know how bad things can get if and when race and politics collide.

Mr.T posted:

All I can say is that you speaking to the wrong sort of people who telling you nonsense. Eastern Europeans have been coming to the UK for years now. It's not the powers in Britain that is flooding the country with them, but the right to freedom of movement within the EU. 
These Eastern Europeans are also hard workers who don't complain much, if at all. Our WI and Asian brothers and sisters have had the country to themselves for years, and they started to stop working hard. So the productivity of the country is now one of the the lowest in the Western world. No wonder therefore that business owners prefer Eastern Europeans. The general public however believe that these migrants are putting pressure on public services, which have in fact been cut by the government over the last 8 years.
The Commonwealth story is another lie. The UK government only really interested in doing business with the US and China under freetrade agreements. That's why this whole Brexit thing is a headache. I can see an armed conflict coming up if things don't get resolved by the 19th of March 2019. I already planning to stock up on food etc. Having lived in Guyana and Suriname I know how bad things can get if and when race and politics collide.

Mr.T with all due respect.  You are a completely gullible man.  These Eastern Europeans are trying their best to be accepted by white Britain and they are doing so not only by hard work but most importantly by playing up their whiteness.  They are using people of color in Britain to portray to white Britain the concept of "Us Europeans (meaning whites) united against these people of color from the third world who are taking over Britain a European country (meaning a white country) and marrying white women etc." Windrush is an important issue but now is not the time to bring it up. There are much more important things at stake here.  

Mr.T posted:

Even though Trump gets blasted for his policies on migrants, they are still more liberal than those in the UK. The UK decision to vote for Brexit is primarily about immigration. The working committee tasked with Brexit issues doesn't even have a single non-white face in it.

A number of issues.

The USA is almost 40% nonwhite.  The UK a mere 15%.  The USA (and Canada) derive their identity through their immigrant roots.  There is no one way to be "American" or "Canadian".  While the British now accept the fact that it is now a diverse nation I think they wish their immigrants to leave their culture back home.  The French are even worse at this.

In addition black Americans have been in the USA since its beginnings as 13 British colonies, so they have way more assurance and self confidence than do black British.  The latter operate in a more polite culture and still remember the days when they were told to go back home, and being told so by mainstream politicians at that.  This applying even to nonwhite UK born of  immigrant origin.

So yes it is easier for black Americans and nonwhite immigrants to assert their case. I just cannot envisage a scenario in the UK where undocumented kids would feel that they have a right to permanent residence because their undocumented parents brought them in at a young age.  Hell, even some folks who arrived with British colonial passports have had to fight to have the right to remain in the UK.

Iguana posted:

 

Yes. He posted that he had his DNA checked. Got his Ancestry.com kit in the mail, unfurled the wrapping, put his DNA sample in and mailed it. Got his results in the mail.

Put on his dhoti, indian headgear, giant red dot on his forehead, whipped up some indian food, real India Indian music playing loudly in the background and proudly opened up his ancestry.com results expecting to find he is descended from some Maharaja. Instead he got this -

25% Ghanian
50% Nigerian
15% Gambian
10% Madrasi

I can now see why he wants to set up New Indesh. 

Prashad posted:

Mr.T with all due respect.  You are a completely gullible man.  These Eastern Europeans are trying their best to be accepted by white Britain and they are doing so not only by hard work but most importantly by playing up their whiteness.  They are using people of color in Britain to portray to white Britain the concept of "Us Europeans (meaning whites) united against these people of color from the third world who are taking over Britain a European country (meaning a white country) and marrying white women etc." Windrush is an important issue but now is not the time to bring it up. There are much more important things at stake here.  

Quite the opposite. The Eastern Europeans do not socialize with anyone from the UK, irrespective of colour. My neighbourhood for instance is full of them, but you won't see them in the local bar, restaurant or supermarket. They travel to their own spots where people from their country hang out.

Neither are Eastern Europeans interested in showing  how hard they work. They give a full day's work for a full day's pay. That is something that this country has not experienced before, or at least for many decades.

Mr.T posted:

Prashad posted:

Mr.T with all due respect.  You are a completely gullible man.  These Eastern Europeans are trying their best to be accepted by white Britain and they are doing so not only by hard work but most importantly by playing up their whiteness.  They are using people of color in Britain to portray to white Britain the concept of "Us Europeans (meaning whites) united against these people of color from the third world who are taking over Britain a European country (meaning a white country) and marrying white women etc." Windrush is an important issue but now is not the time to bring it up. There are much more important things at stake here.  

Quite the opposite. The Eastern Europeans do not socialize with anyone from the UK, irrespective of colour. My neighbourhood for instance is full of them, but you won't see them in the local bar, restaurant or supermarket. They travel to their own spots where people from their country hang out.

Neither are Eastern Europeans interested in showing  how hard they work. They give a full day's work for a full day's pay. That is something that this country has not experienced before, or at least for many decades.

Keep believing this.  It clearly shows how gullible you are.