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FM
Former Member

A woman beheaded in the road. Five headless corpses hanging from cranes. As a documentary exposes the horror of life in Saudi Arabia, why DOES Britain cosy up to this kingdom of savagery?

  • Sight is one scene in a shocking documentary to be aired this week 
  • It will shed the light on the strict everyday life in Saudi Arabia
  • Middle Eastern nation is one of the world's bloodiest and most secretive 
  • Yet Saudi Arabia remains one of Britain’s closest allies worldwide 
  • See more news on Saudi Arabia as the horror of daily life is revealed

 

Five bodies hang from a pole suspended between two cranes, a public display which serves as a reminder to those who might contemplate a life of crime.

They belonged to a gang of five robbers, all of whom were publicly beheaded before their corpses were hoisted high in the air, where they remained for days.

The gruesome sight is one scene in a shocking documentary to be aired this week which sheds light on life in Saudi Arabia, one of the world’s bloodiest and most secretive countries.

This gruesome sight is one scene in a shocking documentary to be aired this week which sheds light on life in Saudi Arabia, one of the world’s bloodiest and most secretive countries

This gruesome sight is one scene in a shocking documentary to be aired this week which sheds light on life in Saudi Arabia, one of the world’s bloodiest and most secretive countries

Five bodies hang from a pole suspended between two cranes, a public display which serves as a reminder to those who might contemplate a life of crime

Five bodies hang from a pole suspended between two cranes, a public display which serves as a reminder to those who might contemplate a life of crime

The film, Saudi Arabia Uncovered, contains harrowing footage of beheadings
The film, Saudi Arabia Uncovered, contains harrowing footage of beheadings. A woman dressed in black is held down at the side of a public road by four Saudi policemen, after she has been convicted of killing her stepdaughter.

She is executed with a sword blow to the neck, as she screams: ‘I did not do it.’

We have all heard of the brutality of the Saudi regime, but what makes this documentary so chilling is that we see it on camera.

In another beheading scene, the executioner, dressed in the white robes typically worn by Saudi men, raises his curved sword above his head and brings it down in a single sweep.

 

The documentary introduces viewers to a large public space nicknamed Chop Chop Square because it is the site of so many executions in the Saudi capital, Riyadh. The camera lingers on the red-stained drainage system used to wash away the blood of those executed.

Police are seen brandishing whips against women, who are considered second-class citizens. At one point they brutally knock a woman to the ground and you hear her scream.

In a similar vein, a male supermarket customer pushes a female shopper to the floor for no apparent reason. He then walks past her, oblivious to her anguish, as she scurries terrified out of his way.

What the film makes abundantly clear is that the country is a murderous dictatorship which refuses to tolerate dissent.

The documentary introduces viewers to a large public space nicknamed Chop Chop Square because it is the site of so many executions in the Saudi capital, Riyadh

The documentary introduces viewers to a large public space nicknamed Chop Chop Square because it is the site of so many executions in the Saudi capital, Riyadh

Yet Saudi Arabia remains one of Britain’s closest allies, not just in the Middle East but worldwide, as it has for nearly a century. We sell them arms. They sell us oil. The royal families of each country are close. Prince Charles has made numerous trips to the kingdom and, when King Abdullah died last year, flags at Westminster flew at half-mast in a highly unusual tribute to a foreign ruler.

Our leaders conveniently overlook the truth about the desert kingdom.

In Saudi Arabia, even a minor criticism of the regime can result in a lashing or long prison sentence. Beheadings, the film makes clear, are commonplace — so far this year, the country has been executing its people at the rate of almost one a day.

Ferocious moral codes are enforced by the religious police as they patrol the streets and shopping malls. Blasphemy is punishable by stoning or execution, theft by amputation. Anyone found guilty of insulting Islam faces ten years in prison or perhaps 1,000 lashes.

The outside world is kept in ignorance of most of this because it is impossible for foreign journalists to report from or film in Saudi Arabia without minders. Indeed, it is difficult to get into the country even as a tourist.

Only because of the extraordinary bravery of the film’s makers, and Saudi democracy activists who helped them, is the truth now being aired

Only because of the extraordinary bravery of the film’s makers, and Saudi democracy activists who helped them, is the truth now being aired

Only because of the extraordinary bravery of the film’s makers, and Saudi democracy activists who helped them, is the truth now being aired.

The documentary is based on six months of undercover filming and its footage of beatings and beheadings is disturbing enough. But it also exposes the extremes of wealth and poverty in this oil-rich country.

Furthermore, it tells the story of the men and women who dare to speak out against the Saudi dictatorship, and reveals the terrible price they have to pay for their courage.

The film, to be shown tomorrow night, is a shared production by ITV and the Public Broadcasting Service in the U.S.

This is the same broadcasting combination which caused a storm of international controversy when, nearly 36 years ago, it screened Death Of A Princess, the story of a Saudi princess and her lover who were executed for adultery.

In the resulting furore, the British ambassador to Saudi Arabia was expelled and trade contracts were broken off. The film was condemned by the Foreign Office because it offended Saudi rulers, and it has never been reshown on British television.

Already, similar pressure is being brought to bear over this new documentary. Saudi activist Loujain al-Hathloul, who campaigns for women’s rights in a country where women are not even allowed to drive — and who was jailed and treated as a terrorist after posting an online video of herself driving a car — has received death threats after taking part in the film.

It is easy to see why such an exposé might be greeted with horror by the Saudi establishment.

The brutality aside, secret filming in a Saudi mosque shows a preacher spreading grotesque anti-Semitic messages. ‘The Jews have abused, dictated and contaminated the land,’ he says. ‘So, oh Allah, stop them and spill on them the whip of torture, don’t let their flag fly high, and make an example of them.’

The film reveals how hatred is directed at other religions in Saudi schools. One of the secret cameramen asks a 14-year-old Saudi boy what he is taught at school. Back comes the reply: ‘The Christians should be punished with death until there are none left. They should be beheaded.’

But schoolchildren are not just taught to direct hatred at Christians and Jews. They are also instructed to turn on Shia Muslims, a substantial minority in Saudi Arabia.

The boy says chillingly: ‘We learn that the Shia are blasphemers. They should be punished by death. We should fight them in the name of Islam.’

It is easy to see why such an exposé might be greeted with horror by the Saudi establishment

It is easy to see why such an exposé might be greeted with horror by the Saudi establishment

The film includes rare footage of desperate Shia in the east of Saudi Arabia bravely protesting against their oppression. It illustrates how one young protester, Ali Nimr, was arrested at the age of 17 and sentenced to be beheaded, with his headless body displayed publicly for two days for his role in the protests.

The British Government says it has received assurances that he will not now be killed, but Saudi media reports last week suggested he could be executed imminently.

Ali’s uncle, Sheikh Nimr, a controversial Shia cleric, was executed on January 2 this year, along with 46 other men, in Saudi Arabia’s largest execution since 1980.

The British Government is well aware of all the brutality meted out in Saudi Arabia. Here is what the UK embassy in Riyadh says in its information pack for British prisoners in the desert kingdom: ‘The Saudi courts impose a number of severe physical punishments. 

The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery, and can be carried out by beheading with a sword, stoning or firing squad.’

The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery, and can be carried out by beheading with a sword, stoning or firing squad

The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery, and can be carried out by beheading with a sword, stoning or firing squad

Anyone who protests against the Saudi regime faces harrowing punishments. One blogger, Raif Badawi, was convicted of insulting Islam after making public comments about his government and Islam.

‘The only way to deal with an unfree world,’ he wrote, ‘is to become so absolutely free that your very existence becomes an act of rebellion.’

For comments like this, Badawi, a father of three whose family now live in exile, was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and ten years in jail.

The religious police even ban the playing of music in public. The film contains disturbing footage of them smashing a lute which was being played on a beach.

The police ruthlessly enforce their militant version of Islam, known as Wahhabism. There is footage of these state-sponsored fanatics forcing women to cover themselves, complaining about them wearing make-up and herding people out of cafes to pray.

The official title of the religious police is the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice. Chillingly, only two other movements in the world — the Taliban in Afghanistan and Islamic State in Syria and Iraq — have organisations with the same name.

The Saudi government has always denied that it has any connection either with Islamic State or with Al Qaeda. Nevertheless, both jihadist organisations endorse the state religion which Saudi Arabia has spent an estimated $70 billion (£48 billion) exporting around the world.

This is a documentary that exposes the deep hypocrisy of Saudi Arabia’s relationship with Britain and the West

This is a documentary that exposes the deep hypocrisy of Saudi Arabia’s relationship with Britain and the West

Britain is determined to maintain this relationship even though the country it deals with is, by any definition, barbaric

Britain is determined to maintain this relationship even though the country it deals with is, by any definition, barbaric

 
 
 
Saudi Arabia denies any link to terrorism, and is indeed preparing to send troops to fight Islamic State in Syria. But this film examines evidence to suggest that there were links between the Saudis and Al Qaeda in the period before the attack on the Twin Towers on 9/11.

It is well known that 15 of the 19 Al Qaeda-inspired 9/11 hijackers were Saudi citizens. However, there have always been suggestions that the links ran much deeper, and the film offers compelling evidence that this might indeed be the case.

This is a documentary that exposes the deep hypocrisy of Saudi Arabia’s relationship with Britain and the West. Britain is determined to maintain this relationship even though the country it deals with is, by any definition, barbaric.

The film even shows how the fearsome Saudi police — who fire bullets at unarmed protesters and activists simply for expressing an opinion contrary to the state’s — are trained by the British Government’s College of Policing.

Our nation’s friendship with Saudi Arabia means collaborating with a regime that persecutes its own citizens with a savagery that defies imagination.

Some might argue that this domestic brutality is a matter for Saudi Arabia alone. When he was asked recently to justify our relationship with the Saudis, David Cameron replied that the country’s intelligence services have provided vital information exposing terror plots aimed at Britain.

Yet this argument is undermined by the undoubted fact that Saudi Arabia exports its murderous jihadi ideology around the world.

On the basis of this deeply disturbing film, it is time to reassess Britain’s connection with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia Uncovered, produced by Hardcash Productions, is on ITV tomorrow at 10.40pm.

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Lucas posted:

This shows why Muslim migrants are so traumatized that they cannot adapt to a life of freedom. Their countries are really HELL on EARTH.

This is nothing but plain, unadulterated BULLSHIT !!          The 'holier than thou' stance taken by many in the western world is nothing short of rubbish. To begin with, the statutes of no two countries are exactly alike so any attempt to equate the laws of one country to those of another is completely pointless because social, political, cultural, religious and other norms vary from place to place; regardless of race, religion or political stripe. Furthermore, use of the word 'Muslim' in the sentence above is clear evidence of foul and ugly bigotry because you have attempted to paint all Muslims 'with the same brush'. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that Saudi Arabia is only one of numerous Muslim countries in the world and the laws of that country do not apply outside of their borders and therefore do not affect or apply to all Muslims.  With respect to 'Their countries are really HELL on EARTH', please tell us 1) which of these countries are 'hell on earth', 2) which of them you have personally been to or 3) you are simply parroting what has become the norm to portray by many in the western media.  

K
Keffer posted:
Lucas posted:

This shows why Muslim migrants are so traumatized that they cannot adapt to a life of freedom. Their countries are really HELL on EARTH.

This is nothing but plain, unadulterated BULLSHIT !!          The 'holier than thou' stance taken by many in the western world is nothing short of rubbish. To begin with, the statutes of no two countries are exactly alike so any attempt to equate the laws of one country to those of another is completely pointless because social, political, cultural, religious and other norms vary from place to place; regardless of race, religion or political stripe.

Furthermore, use of the word 'Muslim' in the sentence above is clear evidence of foul and ugly bigotry because you have attempted to paint all Muslims 'with the same brush'. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that Saudi Arabia is only one of numerous Muslim countries in the world and the laws of that country do not apply outside of their borders and therefore do not affect or apply to all Muslims.  With respect to 'Their countries are really HELL on EARTH', please tell us 1) which of these countries are 'hell on earth', 2) which of them you have personally been to or 3) you are simply parroting what has become the norm to portray by many in the western media.  

I have two comments; first, it is rational, prudent and just to compare and contrast behavior among people and where it is demonstrably abhorrent as in instances above of beheading etc, it is imperative to do so. They Mayans and Astecas had a blood culture and with the Incas they participated in human sacrifices. One can say with clarity that has no place in our modern world. Similarly, beheading and hanging humans form cranes is bestial and needs to be condemned. And one does not have to go on into their treatment of their guest workers!

Secondly,  Saudi is hell on hearth for those of us looking in...their subjugation of women, misuse of workers and rights dispensed as a privileged of rank. That is medieval. Also Much of the region is indeed hell for Yazidis, copts and other Christians. It is also Hell because of the tribal internecine war that is even more brutal than the era of Genghis Khan. Worse many Muslims are lured to the region to fight for Islam!

One of the problem of the region is it has those of the Ummah as you dissimulating in the presence of the naked horror we see before us. Pretending there is not a sickness in some interpretations of Islam that is the bane of our modern existence in the western world is just plain self deception if not a condoning of this nastiness.

FM

Who are you or anyone else to determine what is 'abhorrent' and what is not and on what basis do you make that determination? I believe most, if not all of us, are from a nation that was raped, pillaged and looted for centuries by the very people who are now so unbelievably swift in vilifying and loading condemnation on others who do not 'toe' their political line and philosophy. I humbly suggest you take time to review the lot of black and other non-white people in USA, Britain, Australia and France; to name only a few. The very people who attacked, occupied, raped and looted several other nations for generations have now so smoothly moved into the 'high chair' of morality, eh ! You seem to be advocating that everyone should follow the lead and lifestyles of USA, England, France, Germany and Australia; to name only a few. It is not my intent to teach history to anyone but I do suggest you go back a few years to what took place in North Africa, West Africa, East Africa, the Indian sub-continent and of course to the West Indies before you tell anyone about 'hell on earth'.

I care very little about your idea of dissimulation. When you read and learn about the abhorrence of the actions of France in the Maghreb, Britain in Asia & Africa and what the USA is attempting to perpetrate on so many other countries you would probably be in a better position to talk to me about barbarity !!   

PS: I suggest you contact Peter Oborne and tell him that most people already know about Memri TV and the blatant bullshit and lies which they try to perpetrate on gullible and unread fools.

K
baseman posted:
Keffer posted:

Who are you or anyone else to determine what is 'abhorrent' and what is not and on what basis do you make that determination? I .

So, can we assume you embrace the practices we saw in the pics and then some?  Is that the take away?

You are perfectly free to 'take away' away whatever you like; maybe you are one of those who implicitly accepts anything you are shown (as real), however, you should be aware that authenticity of the picture can be totally different issue. How do you know where those pictures were taken ? 

K
Keffer posted:

Who are you or anyone else to determine what is 'abhorrent' and what is not and on what basis do you make that determination? I believe most, if not all of us, are from a nation that was raped, pillaged and looted for centuries by the very people who are now so unbelievably swift in vilifying and loading condemnation on others who do not 'toe' their political line and philosophy. I humbly suggest you take time to review the lot of black and other non-white people in USA, Britain, Australia and France; to name only a few. The very people who attacked, occupied, raped and looted several other nations for generations have now so smoothly moved into the 'high chair' of morality, eh ! You seem to be advocating that everyone should follow the lead and lifestyles of USA, England, France, Germany and Australia; to name only a few. It is not my intent to teach history to anyone but I do suggest you go back a few years to what took place in North Africa, West Africa, East Africa, the Indian sub-continent and of course to the West Indies before you tell anyone about 'hell on earth'.

I care very little about your idea of dissimulation. When you read and learn about the abhorrence of the actions of France in the Maghreb, Britain in Asia & Africa and what the USA is attempting to perpetrate on so many other countries you would probably be in a better position to talk to me about barbarity !!   

PS: I suggest you contact Peter Oborne and tell him that most people already know about Memri TV and the blatant bullshit and lies which they try to perpetrate on gullible and unread fools.

Why don't you use your own alias rather than duplicate it? Note it is but a simple matter for me to trick you and fingerprint your computer and compare the canvas data.

In any event, one of the ways we determine that is good and just is by comparing and contrasting.  Even the least of us have a bullshit detector toolkit and we use it often and with fairly good results.  It is why we are alive and do not walk into midday traffic. You are spouting ripe bullshit.

Beheading people and hanging them on cranes for public consumption is not normal. It is crude, barbaric and worthy of condemnation. It is what normal people do.

I am the last person to say minorities do not feel the ill effects of white presumption ( called white privileged). However, no group seeking redress to social injustice seek to behead or blow people up. To do that would not be normal.

Your position reeks of apology for some crude and bestial behavior. Instead of condemning them you hope to rationalize it to some redress to insults. That is obscene, dangerous and you are not a person I care to have in my community.

 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
baseman posted:
Keffer posted:
baseman posted:
Keffer posted:

Who are you or anyone else to determine what is 'abhorrent' and what is not and on what basis do you make that determination? I .

So, can we assume you embrace the practices we saw in the pics and then some?  Is that the take away?

You are perfectly free to 'take away' away whatever you like; maybe you are one of those who implicitly accepts anything you are shown (as real), however, you should be aware that authenticity of the picture can be totally different issue. How do you know where those pictures were taken ? 

Well, ISIS = House of Saud = Al Qaeda = Taliban.

The images out of House of Saud are nothing new.  In the 70's, i think, did they not [publicly] stone to death one of their own princesses because she had a falling out with her "prince" husband?

House of Saud medieval barbarism is well documented!!

1) Documented by whom ? 

2) Have you seen/read the 'documentation' ?  

3) What did it say ?

You have evidently never been to any of the countries in question but, based on 'the news', you know 'everything'; how charming ! For some people, it is enough to read newspapers, look at CNN, NBC etc, guzzle as much beer as possible and quickly conclude that they are so well informed and up to speed with the 'news' !

I am simply amazed at the speed with which some of you rush to conclusions/judgement ! Why don't you do some serious/objective investigation to find out who created Al Qaeda, who created Taliban and consequently what spawned ISIS. Have you ever been to any of these countries to see for yourself and speak to local people to understand what was visited on ordinarily defenseless folks ?  Or is it that ownership of a computer with access to the internet makes one an expert ?

K
baseman posted:
ksazma posted:
Yet when they are given a chance to live a normal life, many choose to go back to their old ways and then we end up with incidents like the one in Brussels today.

Because the few "Trojan horses" and here to destroy the image of the ones looking for a new life.  Of course, then there are those who come, maybe feel disappointed and turn back to their roots to find strength and get sucked in.

It's a difficult and complicated issue.  Some part of Europe contribute to this with racism and exclusion which alienate and drive many into the arms of those with bad intent.

However, the most guilty are those Imams and community leaders who are somewhat successful but preach hatred and intolerance to the youth.  You should go visit the mosque Queens where certain resident (GNI'ers) frequent and hear the "anti-infidel", anti-Hindu bilge that is spewed there!!  Some of it spills onto this forum!!  This type of hate sermons happen, even more so, in parts of Europe!

I fully agree that there must be no tolerance for those who preach hatred and intolerance towards others. Why do you not then take action; legal and social, against the perpetrators ?  Why do you not provide names, places, dates, quotes ?

K
Keffer posted:
baseman posted:
Keffer posted:
baseman posted:
Keffer posted:

Who are you or anyone else to determine what is 'abhorrent' and what is not and on what basis do you make that determination? I .

So, can we assume you embrace the practices we saw in the pics and then some?  Is that the take away?

You are perfectly free to 'take away' away whatever you like; maybe you are one of those who implicitly accepts anything you are shown (as real), however, you should be aware that authenticity of the picture can be totally different issue. How do you know where those pictures were taken ? 

Well, ISIS = House of Saud = Al Qaeda = Taliban.

The images out of House of Saud are nothing new.  In the 70's, i think, did they not [publicly] stone to death one of their own princesses because she had a falling out with her "prince" husband?

House of Saud medieval barbarism is well documented!!

1) Documented by whom ? 

2) Have you seen/read the 'documentation' ?  

3) What did it say ?

You have evidently never been to any of the countries in question but, based on 'the news', you know 'everything'; how charming ! For some people, it is enough to read newspapers, look at CNN, NBC etc, guzzle as much beer as possible and quickly conclude that they are so well informed and up to speed with the 'news' !

I am simply amazed at the speed with which some of you rush to conclusions/judgement ! Why don't you do some serious/objective investigation to find out who created Al Qaeda, who created Taliban and consequently what spawned ISIS. Have you ever been to any of these countries to see for yourself and speak to local people to understand what was visited on ordinarily defenseless folks ?  Or is it that ownership of a computer with access to the internet makes one an expert ?

you sound like a typical symphatiser

 

FM

Politicians and the media in the Anglosphere only have words of flattery for the Kingdom of Brutal Saudi Pedophiles  contrast that with the contempt they have for the Vatican and other Christian representations. 

 

There seems to be an alliance between SECULARs and JIHADIS  against Christianity. In Britain, ISLAM is now more protected than any other religion while the Christian traditions and celebrations have been systematically  removed because Muslims find them offensive. Hmmm.

Under the Medieval Sharia law what is so offensive about the celebration of Christmas and Easter that now has to be carried out  closed doors lest us offend Muslims?

FM
Lucas posted:

Politicians and the media in the Anglosphere only have words of flattery for the Kingdom of Brutal Saudi Pedophiles  contrast that with the contempt they have for the Vatican and other Christian representations. 

 

There seems to be an alliance between SECULARs and JIHADIS  against Christianity. In Britain, ISLAM is now more protected than any other religion while the Christian traditions and celebrations have been systematically  removed because Muslims find them offensive. Hmmm.

Under the Medieval Sharia law what is so offensive about the celebration of Christmas and Easter that now has to be carried out  closed doors lest us offend Muslims?

Now you reverting to talking sheer poop....that's why I take everything you say here as sheer nonsense sometimes

Muslims in the West don't stop anyone from celebrating their holidays

FM

All the christian population of the Arabian peninsula was exterminated by the House of Saud at the beginning of the 20 century. Curiously no condemnation at all for this genocide. This is another aspect where secularists turn a blind eye.

FM
Lucas posted:

All the christian population of the Arabian peninsula was exterminated by the House of Saud at the beginning of the 20 century. Curiously no condemnation at all for this genocide. This is another aspect where secularists turn a blind eye.

so, Muslims stop you from celebrating Christmas in the west?

FM
RiffRaff posted:
Lucas posted:

All the christian population of the Arabian peninsula was exterminated by the House of Saud at the beginning of the 20 century. Curiously no condemnation at all for this genocide. This is another aspect where secularists turn a blind eye.

so, Muslims stop you from celebrating Christmas in the west?

That's why I say Secularists and Jihadis are allied against Christianity. May be Secularists  are Jihadis in the secret part of their lives. Secularists are those in power  who write the laws to protect islam and remove christianity.

FM
Keffer posted:
baseman posted:
Keffer posted:
baseman posted:
Keffer posted:

Who are you or anyone else to determine what is 'abhorrent' and what is not and on what basis do you make that determination? I .

So, can we assume you embrace the practices we saw in the pics and then some?  Is that the take away?

You are perfectly free to 'take away' away whatever you like; maybe you are one of those who implicitly accepts anything you are shown (as real), however, you should be aware that authenticity of the picture can be totally different issue. How do you know where those pictures were taken ? 

Well, ISIS = House of Saud = Al Qaeda = Taliban.

The images out of House of Saud are nothing new.  In the 70's, i think, did they not [publicly] stone to death one of their own princesses because she had a falling out with her "prince" husband?

House of Saud medieval barbarism is well documented!!

1) Documented by whom ? 

2) Have you seen/read the 'documentation' ?  

3) What did it say ?

You have evidently never been to any of the countries in question but, based on 'the news', you know 'everything'; how charming ! For some people, it is enough to read newspapers, look at CNN, NBC etc, guzzle as much beer as possible and quickly conclude that they are so well informed and up to speed with the 'news' !

I am simply amazed at the speed with which some of you rush to conclusions/judgement ! Why don't you do some serious/objective investigation to find out who created Al Qaeda, who created Taliban and consequently what spawned ISIS. Have you ever been to any of these countries to see for yourself and speak to local people to understand what was visited on ordinarily defenseless folks ?  Or is it that ownership of a computer with access to the internet makes one an expert ?

Would would document Saudi crimes except outsiders? Last week there was an Indian fellow crying because  he wanted help to get out of that hell hole where he is a virtual slave working 16 hour days and not seeing any wages. I guess that was set up by defamers of the righteous defenders of the fate and protectors of the holy shrines!...Bullshit.

What is wrong with the news outlets here? You perfunctorily discount them for what? Give us a break. There are heaps of information from that region that qualify those fellows as brutish and bestial and all under the pretensions of being pious.

If I help my friend restore his business and he later turn the enterprise into a haven for criminality why would I be blamed for his lack of moral principles? Al Qaeda, formed in Sudan and after the eviction of the Soviets with the aid of Congressman Wilson and his private war is one thing.

He did not advise the remnants of that army he help to build to become terrorists. They did that on their own. Al Qaeda as a product of the US is what morons say because they need to excuse the bestial nature of this terrorist tribe under the tutelage of a devil spawned mullah and his vile acolyte Ben laden.

Similarly, the Taliban came out of the tutelage of the same strain of revivalist Islam, Deobandism,  and only a pig headed fanatic would insist they are a product of the US. The same with ISIS. None of these people even claim they exist because of the US. They exist because the are duped into believing in an apocalyptic brand of Islam. I do not see any one here in the US administration claiming they are waiting for the end of times!

Take your bullshit for the morons who are easily deluded by the promise of virgins in paradise as sound "teachings". They have no traction in the real world.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Lucas posted:
RiffRaff posted:
Lucas posted:

All the christian population of the Arabian peninsula was exterminated by the House of Saud at the beginning of the 20 century. Curiously no condemnation at all for this genocide. This is another aspect where secularists turn a blind eye.

so, Muslims stop you from celebrating Christmas in the west?

That's why I say Secularists and Jihadis are allied against Christianity. May be Secularists  are Jihadis in the secret part of their lives. Secularists are those in power  who write the laws to protect islam and remove christianity.

What sort of cool aid are you drinking. Christians of the west by convention use secular notions formulated in the enlightenment tradition as the guide to their political administration. That convention agrees that religion and politics are best managed under democratic precepts  ( completely secular) Christians therefore moonlight as secularists to their benefit! There are no tribes of secularist seeking office. You are as much a nutcase as the Muslim fanatics.

FM
Last edited by Former Member

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