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Roger Cohen New York Times Nov 18, 2016

What was evident during the campaign is more apparent after Donald Trump’s election: He is deeply ambivalent about becoming president. He’d rather stay in his lavish New York penthouse. Policy is a headache. It requires concentration. There are annoying laws against nepotism. Trump won 4.1 percent of the vote in the District of Columbia. Washington does not pine for him.

It all began as a game, turned into an ego trip, and ended in a strange apotheosis. Trump has uncanny instincts but no firm ideas. He knows the frisson authority confers. A rich boy from Queens who made good in Manhattan, he understands the galvanizing force of playing the outsider card. A man who changed his past, purging German lineage for “Swedish,” he understands America’s love for the outsized invented life. For his victory he depended on America’s unique gift for amnesia.

Trump saw the immense potential appeal of an American restoration — all nationalism finds its roots in a gloried, mythical past — after the presidency of a black man, Barack Obama, who prudently chose not to exalt the exceptional nature of the United States but to face the reality of diminished power.

The proposed restoration went beyond that. It was of the Judeo-Christian West against what Trump’s chief strategist — read propaganda minister — Steve Bannon calls “the new barbarity.” That barbarity has many components. One is the crony capitalism of the “party of Davos” — the elites who have the system rigged. Another is the dilution of Judeo-Christian values through rampant secularization, migration and miscegenation. The mass 21st-century influx of Muslims in the West may be equated, in these people’s eyes, with the mass emancipation and emergence from the Shtetl of Jews in 19th-century Europe: disruptive, threatening, a menace to the established order.

Obama is of mixed race. Who could better symbolize the looming decadence? For “Make America Great Again,” read “Make America White Again.” Trump saw that racism and sexism could be manipulated in his favor. He was the self-styled voice of the people to whom he bore least resemblance: those at the periphery far from the metropolitan hubs of the Davos consensus.

From headline to headline Trump stumbled, ending up with the last thing he wants: a minutely scrutinized life. You can wing a campaign; you can’t wing the leadership of the free world. An unethical commander-in-chief is a commander-in-chief with problems.

Trump knows all this. He was big on hat; now he needs cattle. That’s problematic. He does not really know where to begin. Clearly not at the State Department, which has yet to hear from him.

One is put in mind of H.L. Mencken: “As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

Except that Trump is no moron. That makes the outlook more sinister. Michael Bloomberg, the former New York mayor, got it about right when he said of Trump: “I’m a New Yorker and I know a con when I see one.” He might have said a gifted charlatan.

Bannon, as set out in remarks reported by BuzzFeed to a conference held at the Vatican in 2014, believes that, “We’re at the very beginning stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict” that will, absent a firm stand by “the church militant,” “completely eradicate everything we’ve been bequeathed over the last 2,000, 2,500 years.”

The thing is, of course, this fight — this imagined restoration — will be waged against the very essence of the modern world: the movement of peoples and ever greater interconnectedness, driven by technology. Taken to its logical conclusion, the Trump-Bannon war can only end in apocalypse.

I believe money binds Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, and Trump. Precisely how we do not know yet. But there is also a cultural aspect. Putin has set himself up as the guardian of an absolutist culture against what Russia sees as the predatory and relativist culture of the West. The Putin entourage is convinced the decadence of the West is revealed in its irreligious embrace of same-sex marriage, radical feminism, euthanasia, homosexuality and choose-your-gender bathrooms. Enter Bannon.

It’s all a terrible mistake. Trump affects something close to a regal pout, close enough anyway to be perfected through Botox. He loves gilt, gold and pomp. He’s interested in authority, but not details. He yearns to watch the genuflections of the awed. He loves ribbon-cutting and the regalia of power. Used to telling minions they’re fired, he prefers subjects to citizens. In short, he’d be better off at Buckingham Palace.

That won’t happen. I see a high chance of disaster within the first year of the new presidency. Trump won the game. But now the game for him could be up. Or perhaps the world will go down in flames.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

seignet posted:

Another Jew who has it in for Trump. And a Guyanese highlighting their agenda. What strange bedfellows.

 

How're doing Nazi? Gassed anyone recently? Farting doesn't count.

Kari

Roger Cohen is smearing Trump as if it is personal. NYT has been one of Trump's biggest critics and it continues to be critical of him after the election. This a replica of KNEWS vs Jagdeo. This is what' keeps Kari's boat afloat.

FM

Cobra, Yuji and Seignet. There is a "Make America White Again" gala tonight to celebrate Trump's victory.

I take it that you weren't invited.

Of course not. To these people you represent all the increasing decadence of America.  Thanks to people like YOU America will not be white Again, and these people really hate you all for this.   You see the black population is remaining at around 13%.  The decreasing share of the population that is white is because of massive immigration of Asians, who have now outstripped Latin Americans as a source of new immigrants!

FM
VishMahabir posted:
seignet posted:

Another Jew who has it in for Trump. And a Guyanese highlighting their agenda. What strange bedfellows.

 

LOL.

Hey Jew-hater, I wonder how you'll react when you're told "hey darkie, go home. We're making America great again and you're not welcomed here". Telling them you're not Black nor Muslim will not impress them - they'll kick your sorry azz the same.

Kari

Vish claims he is a dougla.  Some one better tell him that the same cops who will shoot a black man first, no questions asked, will treat him in exactly the same way.

He is like a Sammy Sosa type Dominican who screams that he isn't black. Sessions and the KKK will gladly tell him that he can think what ever he wishes but to them he isn't any different. Look at how they treat the half white half Kenyan Obama!

FM
ba$eman posted:

Kari....Trump is President-Elect.  He will be YOUR president for all of eight years!!

Is Barack Obama YOUR president NOW?

Trump hasn't been inaugurated yet so will not be president until Jan 20, 2017.

FM
ba$eman posted:

Kari....Trump is President-Elect.  He will be YOUR president for all of eight years!!

8 years? Hope that he lasts out his one term. When those white working class voters who turned to him see no jobs coming and all the scandals coming, watch how they turned on him. Remember he won only 47% of the votes (Hillary has 48%) and only a couple of States by a close margin gave him the Electoral College votes needed to win. So he's a minority President.

Kari
caribny posted:
ba$eman posted:

Kari....Trump is President-Elect.  He will be YOUR president for all of eight years!!

Is Barack Obama YOUR president NOW?

Trump hasn't been inaugurated yet so will not be president until Jan 20, 2017.

Hey, where I ever denied he was not the president for all.  I voted for him in 2008.  The fact that I don't support some of his policies don't change that fact that he is the US president.  So ding along with yourself!

FM
Kari posted:
ba$eman posted:

Kari....Trump is President-Elect.  He will be YOUR president for all of eight years!!

8 years? Hope that he lasts out his one term. When those white working class voters who turned to him see no jobs coming and all the scandals coming, watch how they turned on him. Remember he won only 47% of the votes (Hillary has 48%) and only a couple of States by a close margin gave him the Electoral College votes needed to win. So he's a minority President.

Well, you expected him to flame out during the Primaries, then you expected a lop-sided Hillary victory.  All your expectation have been turned on their heads.  Remember what Baseman said 11/21/2016, come Nov_2020, "Trump will win a 2nd term"!

He is a minority president in your hapless PNC dunda head!  What was the College count again?  Remember Bush was behind in the popular vote, turned to be a great president and served two terms.  Trump's accomplishment will outdo them all!

FM
Kari posted:
. When those white working class voters who turned to him see no jobs coming and all the scandals coming,

There is a series of interviews which Van Jones did with some folks in PA.  What is noteworthy is that few of any of the so called Trump supporters liked him.  This is on CNN's website and will be shown on TV sometime in early Dec.

Trump got their votes because the TV media had an obsession on Hillary's Emailgate, and were too lazy to build on the work that the NY Times has done to uncover Trump irregularities, and blatant dishonesty.  Most Americans get their news from cable and the networks and not from print/digital.

This was a media driven election.  Despite this they really don't like him because of his boorish attitude. Despite the portrayal of these people as bigots some felt uncomfortable with Trump's bigotry towards Hispanics and Muslims, and a few even towards his condescending attitude towards blacks.

Bottom line is that Trump does NOT have a reservoir of good will to help him if and when his promises to create decent paying jobs don't materialize.

In addition the Democrats (not the partisan freaks) might well play a shrewd game by "supporting" Trump on the infrastructure stimulus, knowing that the GOP will be less than cooperative. 

They will also tell Trump to put his money where his mouth is by supporting a higher minimum wage and paid family sick leave.  In fact Trump's base mainly earn more than the minimum, but as that wage creeps up to their wages then clearly their wages will also increase.

It will indeed be ironic if Trump has to rely on the Democrats in the Senate and in the House to get his bills through.  In fact much has what Bush had to do in an attempt to avoid the economy from completely imploding when he put in a plan to rescue the financial sector, to prevent it from pulling down the entire economy.

FM
ba$eman posted:
, "Trump will win a 2nd term"!

 

Trump will be 74 then, so that is something against him.

The Democrats have learned their lesson and will be better prepared.

Two things to consider.

1. Hillary won the national vote, so Trump is an unpopular candidate. Trump goons running rampant, and Trump having a tweeting war with Broadway kids doesn't make him look good.

2. Hillary only barely lost the Midwest. If by 2019 the Midwest is no better than it is today, and Trump is mired in some conflict of interest scandal, or has entered into some unnecessary war, while pushing through tax cuts for the rich, it will be Bush III.  Try as much as you will want to pretend otherwise but neither Bush I or Bush II ended very well.

FM
caribny posted:
Kari posted:
. When those white working class voters who turned to him see no jobs coming and all the scandals coming,

There is a series of interviews which Van Jones did with some folks in PA.  What is noteworthy is that few of any of the so called Trump supporters liked him.  This is on CNN's website and will be shown on TV sometime in early Dec.

.

Caribj and Kari, batty and po!!  Alyuh enjoy each others company.

FM
caribny posted:

Trump will spend all day tweeting, attacking 28 year old Broadway actors. After a while even you will be bored by this.

Nah, soon he will be too busy rebuilding the nation!

FM
ba$eman posted:
caribny posted:

Trump will spend all day tweeting, attacking 28 year old Broadway actors. After a while even you will be bored by this.

Nah, soon he will be too busy rebuilding the nation!

He has made a good start.

1, His cabinet is such that the KKK are very excited that soon this will definitely be a "white nation" with folks like you sold into slavery, or deported in your case as you are a "terrorist" by virtue of "looking like a Muslim".

2. Tweeting over silliness when even Pence said that he wasn't offended and actually glad that the Hamilton actors exercised their rights of free speech.   Even as Pence said that he doesn't need an apology Trump, rather than trying to recruit new staff, is busy in a tweeting war.

3. Trump apparently prefers tweeting to being president as he is actually considering not living in the White House as his tweeting privileges will be reduced, for security purposes.

Will not surprise me if Trump falls into an EMAILGATE as he seem determined not to follow the rules.  Most likely this will be about Trump using confidential information so that the Trump/Kushner families can become even richer than they currently are.

FM
caribny posted:
ba$eman posted:

Hail Trump!!

I see you have already begun even though Hitler......oops Trump isn't there to demand that you salute him every time he passes.

Well, we had good practice growing up under the PNC!!

FM
ba$eman posted:
caribny posted:
ba$eman posted:

Hail Trump!!

I see you have already begun even though Hitler......oops Trump isn't there to demand that you salute him every time he passes.

Well, we had good practice growing up under the PNC!!

So you admit that Trump is like Forbes Burnham.  I do happen to agree.  Based on his current behavior he is a confirmed lunatic, with an outside ego, who is way beyond his competency.

Pence said that he wasn't offended and in fact was impressed that these young actors exercised their right to free speech.

Trump was still screaming that they have to apologize.  They say that they will not. Will Trump send in his KKK friends to seize the actors and bring them to him for a waterboarding?

FM

Trump, in Interview, Moderates Views but Defies Conventions

President-elect Donald J. Trump tempered on Tuesday some of his most extreme campaign promises, dropping his vow to jail Hillary Clinton, expressing doubt about the value of torturing terrorism suspects and pledging to have an open mind about climate change.

But in a wide-ranging hourlong interview with reporters and editors at The New York Times — which was scheduled, canceled and then reinstated after a dispute over the ground rules — Mr. Trump was unapologetic about flouting some of the traditional ethical and political conventions that have long shaped the American presidency.

He said he had no legal obligation to establish boundaries between his business empire and his White House, conceding that the Trump brand “is certainly a hotter brand than it was before.” Still, he said he would try to figure out a way to insulate himself from his businesses, which would be run by his children.

He defended Stephen K. Bannon, his chief strategist, against charges of racism, calling him a “decent guy.” And he mocked Republicans who had failed to support him in his unorthodox presidential campaign.

In the midday meeting in the 16th-floor boardroom of The Times’s publisher, Arthur Sulzberger Jr., Mr. Trump seemed confident even as he said he was awed by his new job. “It is a very overwhelming job, but I’m not overwhelmed by it,” he said.

He displayed a jumble of impulses, many of them conflicting. He was magnanimous toward Mrs. Clinton, but boastful about his victory. He was open-minded about some of his positions, uncompromising about others.

The interview demonstrated the volatility in Mr. Trump’s positions.

He said he had no interest in pressing for Mrs. Clinton’s prosecution over her use of a private email server or for financial acts committed by the Clinton Foundation. “I don’t want to hurt the Clintons, I really don’t,” he said.

On the issue of torture, Mr. Trump suggested he had changed his mind about the value of waterboarding after talking with James N. Mattis, a retired Marine Corps general, who headed the United States Central Command.

“He said, ‘I’ve never found it to be useful,’” Mr. Trump said. He added that Mr. Mattis found more value in building trust and rewarding cooperation with terrorism suspects: “‘Give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers, and I’ll do better.’”

“I was very impressed by that answer,” Mr. Trump said.

Torture, he said, is “not going to make the kind of a difference that a lot of people are thinking.”

Mr. Trump repeated that Mr. Mattis was being “seriously, seriously considered” to be secretary of defense. “I think it’s time, maybe, for a general,” he said.

On climate change, Mr. Trump refused to repeat his promise to abandon the international climate accord reached last year in Paris, saying, “I’m looking at it very closely.” Despite the recent appointment to his transition team of a fierce critic of the Paris accords, Mr. Trump said that “I have an open mind to it” and that clean air and “crystal clear water” were vitally important.

He held out assurances that he did not intend to embrace extremist positions in some areas. He vigorously denounced a white nationalist conference last weekend in Washington, where attendees gave the Nazi salute and criticized Jews.

Asked about his antagonism with the news media and his vow to toughen libel laws, Mr. Trump offered no specifics but told the group, “I think you’ll be happy.”

Despite his frequent attacks against what he has dubbed the “failing New York Times,” Mr. Trump seemed to go out of his way to praise to the institution, which he called “a great, great American jewel, world jewel.” He did, however, say he believed The Times had been too tough on him during the campaign.

Pressed to respond to criticism in other areas, he was defiant. He declared that “the law’s totally on my side” when it comes to questions about conflict of interest and ethics laws. “The president can’t have a conflict of interest,” he said.

He said it would be extremely difficult to sell off his businesses because they are real estate holdings. He said that he would “like to do something” and create some kind of arrangement to separate his businesses from his work in government. He noted that he had turned over the management of his businesses to his children, which ethics lawyers say is not sufficient to prevent conflicts of interest.

He insisted that he could still invite business partners into the White House for grip-and-grin photographs. He said that critics were pressuring him to go beyond what he was willing to do, including distancing himself from his children while they run his businesses.

“If it were up to some people,” he said, “I would never, ever see my daughter Ivanka again.”

Mr. Trump did not dispute reports that he had used a meeting last week with Nigel Farage, the U.K. Independence Party leader, to raise his opposition to offshore wind farms. Mr. Trump has long complained that wind farms would mar the view from his golf course in Aberdeenshire, Scotland.

“I might have brought it up,” Mr. Trump said, then argued he had done so because of policy concerns about wind farms rather than any personal interest.

Mr. Trump rejected the idea that he was bound by federal antinepotism laws from installing his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, in a White House job. But he said he would want to avoid the appearance of a conflict and might instead seek to make Mr. Kushner a special envoy charged with brokering peace in the Middle East.

“The president of the United States is allowed to have whatever conflicts he or she wants, but I don’t want to do that,” Mr. Trump said. But he said that Mr. Kushner, who is an observant Jew, “could be very helpful” in reconciling the longstanding dispute between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

“I would love to be able to be the one that made peace with Israel and the Palestinians,” Mr. Trump said, adding that Mr. Kushner “would be very good at it” and that “he knows the region.”

“A lot of people tell me, really great people tell me, that it’s impossible — you can’t do it,” Mr. Trump added. “I disagree. I think you can make peace.”

“I have reason to believe I can do it,” he added.

Mr. Trump spoke only in general terms about foreign policy. He said the United States should not “be a nation builder,” repeated his line from the campaign that fighting the war in Iraq was “one of the great mistakes in the history of our country,” and said he has some “very definitive” and “strong ideas” about how to deal with the violent civil war raging in Syria. He declined to say what those ideas are despite several requests to do so.

“We have to end that craziness that’s going on in Syria,” he said.

The president-elect said that he had talked with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia since winning the election, but he did not elaborate. He said it would be “nice” if he and Mr. Putin could get along, but he rejected the idea that any warming of relations would be called a “reset,” noting the criticism that Mrs. Clinton received after her attempts at bettering relations between the countries failed.

“I wouldn’t use that term after what happened,” Mr. Trump said.

Mr. Trump made a forceful defense of Mr. Bannon, whom he named as his chief strategist and who has drawn charges of racism and anti-Semitism. This summer, Mr. Bannon called Breitbart News, the website he led, “the platform for the alt-right,” a white nationalist movement.

Mr. Trump said Mr. Bannon had been dismayed at the reaction to his hiring.

“I’ve known Steve Bannon a long time. If I thought he was a racist or alt-right,” he said, “I wouldn’t even think about hiring him.”

Mr. Trump added: “I think he’s having a hard time with it because it’s not him. I think he’s been treated very unfairly.”

He also defended Breitbart, which has carried racist and anti-Semitic content, saying it was no different from The Times, only “much more conservative.”

Mr. Trump said he hoped to develop a “great long-term relationship” with President Obama, with whom he said he had an unexpected rapport. “I really liked him a lot, and I am a little bit surprised that I am telling you that I really liked him a lot,” he said.

And Mr. Trump gloated about defying the polls and the expectations of his own party to win the presidency, and boasted of how he had taken his revenge on Republicans who kept him at a distance and then lost their own races.

He said that one of them, Senator Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire, would “love to have a job in the administration.”

“I said, ‘No, thank you,’” Mr. Trump said of Ms. Ayotte, who lost her Senate seat to Gov. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire. “She refused to vote for me.”

He also criticized Representative Joe Heck of Nevada, who vacillated over supporting Mr. Trump after an 11-year-old recording surfaced in which Mr. Trump bragged in lewd terms about grabbing women without their consent.

“He went down like a lead balloon,” Mr. Trump said of Mr. Heck. “I said, ‘Off the record, I hope you lose.’”

He said Republican leaders feel indebted to him for his surprise victory.

“Right now,” Mr. Trump said, “they’re in love with me.”

Kari

Kari by the time Trump wakes up tomorrow he will say that he never said those things and that the NYT are vicious liars.  In fact just yesterday he said that they are the worst.

Poor baseman and the rest of the Indo KKK are going to get dizzy trying to keep abreast with Trump's frequent changes.

FM

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